Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Well done TRNC for helping the environment.
From 1st Dec a charge will be made for plastic bags....

Great to hear, but problems still remains as happened twice today already. I was offered biodegradable bags - with the assurance that they were OK!

I just hope the environment can survive the next 3 weeks.

How will vegetables and fruit be packaged for sale after 1 Dec?

Tom that is a very interesting question! In Alpha Mega they make a charge for plastic carrier bags & most shoppers bring their own now but they still insist on putting all fruit & veg into a plastic bag however small an item you are buying.

Shame the charge is only 20-25 kurus, it should be 20-25 lira. That would soon make people cut down.

Trigger wrote:Shame the charge is only 20-25 kurus, it should be 20-25 lira. That would soon make people cut down.

Indeed, but you have not answered my original question. Will traders package in paper bags, will cold meats be packaged plastic free?

tomsteel wrote:

Trigger wrote:Shame the charge is only 20-25 kurus, it should be 20-25 lira. That would soon make people cut down.

Indeed, but you have not answered my original question. Will traders package in paper bags, will cold meats be packaged plastic free?

I have no idea how the traders of Northern Cyprus will package cold meats and fruit come December 1st, however, it should be recyclable material such as paper.

We live in hope.

When I go to Erdogan supermarket I use one bag (still one too many) to put all my fruit / veg in. The weighing guy usually gets very annoyed with me as it makes his life a little bit more difficult. Oh well.

Doable, possibly, in a large supermarket chain, but what about the smaller, independent supermarkets and street-side outlets generally used by the locals?

tomsteel wrote:Doable, possibly, in a large supermarket chain, but what about the smaller, independent supermarkets and street-side outlets generally used by the locals?

Can they not just use paper bags like in the good old days?

Buy some reusable mesh bags to put your fruit and vegetables in They can be washed regularly.

I bought some reusable and washable mesh bags and have used them in Alpha Mega, Erdener and Supreme..Last week in Aloha Mega someone was using the mesh laundry bags and they were being accepted in the fruit & veg section with no problem. Just an idea ! Who knows if it will work here!

we have to differ...
1. very thin plastic bags for eg, fruits. also meat could go in
2. carrier bags.

to 1. to replace thin plastic bags with paper makes, from point of beeing better for the environmnt, no sense. the production usues more energy and resources as for these plastic bags.
also to wash plastic bags makes no sense, as you spill washing liquids into the environment and the use of water (and the energy for supply (eg, pumping) is, compare for "what you get", far too much.

to 2. 25 kurus or 4 eurocents for a bag is not sufficient, of course. but for the quaility supplied.. too much.
it will take time.. and bags will be of better quality and more expensive.

again... of course to charge for a plastic bag will reduce usage... but, as you can not make people not using plastics, the best way would be to introduce a recycling system for plastics in general and put a charge to all plastoc materials to pay for such a system.

same people (?) complaining here about the use of plastic bags, got their (just as an example) overflow pool surrounding plastic stuff replaced last year (or this or next year)...
= for a 10 x 5 pool approx 30 to 35 meters , weight approx 50-60 kilos...
this stuff last for some years ... during this time (under UV light) it splatters the environment with microplastics... afterwards it is simply rubbish and continues to do so... same applies for sunbeds and so on and so on...

so, if you compare a charge of 25 kurus to the "weight" or the "value" of a plastic bag, there should be a 200% or even higher "environment protect charge" on them, they cost at the moment 10 euros a meter..

Plastic bags are not the enemy, they are in fact the best option it is the overuse that is the problem. If you have them reuse them, when you have your veg weighed put multiple items in one bag, insist on it or use a supermarket that weighs at the till then dispose carefully, recycle or reuse. It is quite easy to cut your weekly plastic bag usage down by 95%.

Paper requires sustainable wood, heavier and bulkier to transport therefore bigger carbon footprint and produces greenhouse gas whilst decomposing.

Called into Lemar Karaoglanoglu today and they were gearing up for December 1st. Staff trained and instructed to place carrier bags under the counter. Bags are bar coded and to be added to the final bill. As far as I could ascertain the small fine grade bags stay as they are (may be they are going to be biodegradable?) Can't remember the cost but I think they were to be 15kuros, which everyone thought a strange amount. Time will tell but as Supervisor admitted she thinks there is going to be a lot of disgruntled customers.

sophie wrote:Called into Lemar Karaoglanoglu today and they were gearing up for December 1st. Staff trained and instructed to place carrier bags under the counter. Bags are bar coded and to be added to the final bill. As far as I could ascertain the small fine grade bags stay as they are (may be they are going to be biodegradable?) Can't remember the cost but I think they were to be 15kuros, which everyone thought a strange amount. Time will tell but as Supervisor admitted she thinks there is going to be a lot of disgruntled customers.

There are a lot of disgruntled customers over Lemar's prices let alone Plastic Bag costs.

Stopped shopping there two months ago.

Me as well prices are expensive and they have not reduced them as the Lira gets stronger

Have Starlings, Tempo etc., etc., reduced their prices as Lira gets stronger? Can't say I've noticed it if they have.

Maybe I should start another thread, but loads of people still seem to go down South to food shop. Apart from pet food, is there any benefit?

Turkey is introducing a ban on plastic bags.........https://yellali.com/news/article/555/tu ... astic-bags

Jonnie wrote:Plastic bags are not the enemy

Whilst I agree that we, as a race of people, should be looking at reusabilty, I would just like to see a reduction in the use of plastic so that less would end up in the oceans.

If we do not act now, can you image how many species are going to be wiped out in say 50 years time?

https://cyprus-mail.com/2018/11/20/sper ... n-stomach/

I have lots of cloth bags, strong ones, thin ones - big and small - I use the small light ones to put my veg in for weighing - or no bag at weighing if it is just one item like a cabbage etc - they go in one bag at the end. My German niece decorated two of the bags when she was under ten - she is now 23 - they are still going strong. I get funny looks when I get out all my bags, but who cares. I tell them their grandchildren will be the ones suffering more than us

AND WHY ARE WE MOANING ABOUT PRICES ON THIS THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How else are supermarkets to protect uncooked meats, frozen fish at al? I fully support reducing plastic packaging/bagging.

tomsteel wrote:How else are supermarkets to protect uncooked meats, frozen fish at al? I fully support reducing plastic packaging/bagging.

In UK there is a trial to let people bring in their own containers......https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... pers-told/

Dalartokat wrote: In UK there is a trial to let people bring in their own containers......https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... pers-told/

...And this is from last APRIL! A brilliant idea (IMO); it should have been highly publicised everywhere!
A simple, undeniable, unassailable, historical FACT is that before plastics were invented, people did not USE plastics - and the human race (and other creatures) surprisingly survived...
The latest "plastics pollution" news item - here... there are so many others...
... and other creatures (not just limited to fish) are also ingesting plastics... and via the food chain - US!
But don't worry - those of us who perpetuate this "fallacy" will no doubt be labelled by some individuals with that pathetic, patronising, and perjorative label of "snowflakes"... (I love alliterations... )
I'm happy that I am concerned about the whole human race (and other species) rather than just my own self, comfort and facilities...

I called into two very small independent food shops yesterday, one gave me my order for cakes and pastry into papers bags with Afiyet Olsun on them, the other is all in favour of stopping plastic and is just waiting for official notification prior to 1st December as to what to charge.

As regards being laughed at when taking in your own bags. For years the girls on check out used to giggle when I used to shop at Tempo and I brought out my buttercup yellow linen bags. Well I have the last laugh now at any check out when both the yellow bag still comes out PLUS any of the 5 Sha Market bags which I bought 18 months back.

The next thing I would like to see the authorities enforce is a ban is on the use of plastic containers for eggs.

All a bit like do as I say and not as I do.............http://uk.businessinsider.com/erik-solh ... ns-2018-11

tomorrow is the day

I was in a smallish local Supermarket today when a lady came into Veg department and placed 2 apples in a large plastic bag, followed by two lemons, a couple of bananas etc,, until she had I would estimate 12 of the large bags her wrist. Then I was just leaving and I saw a man reach over and unhook a fist full of the large bags from a hanger thingie and walk out. The Manageress shrugged and said "tomorrow good" and gave the thumbs up. Interesting times.

Trigger wrote:Shame the charge is only 20-25 kurus, it should be 20-25 lira. That would soon make people cut down.

Why not a reasonably long custodial sentence?

jofra wrote:

Dalartokat wrote: In UK there is a trial to let people bring in their own containers......https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... pers-told/

...And this is from last APRIL! A brilliant idea (IMO); it should have been highly publicised everywhere!
A simple, undeniable, unassailable, historical FACT is that before plastics were invented, people did not USE plastics - and the human race (and other creatures) surprisingly survived...
The latest "plastics pollution" news item - here... there are so many others...
... and other creatures (not just limited to fish) are also ingesting plastics... and via the food chain - US!
But don't worry - those of us who perpetuate this "fallacy" will no doubt be labelled by some individuals with that pathetic, patronising, and perjorative label of "snowflakes"... (I love alliterations... )
I'm happy that I am concerned about the whole human race (and other species) rather than just my own self, comfort and facilities...

If we don't do something very very expensive and impossible right now the world will be under water and all the ice will disappear from the Anatartic and there will be no food and all sorts by the year 2006 no 2008, 2011, 2013, 2015.No no 2017.
OK the world will be warmer or possibly colder but certainly different at some time to be announced and if I am reminded of all the other end of the world forecasts that didn't come off I will deny them.
I care about people and if I can price them away from using the airports for their own good I can fly and tell my friends abroad how virtuous I am and park at the airport easier and less queues at the duty free.

jofra wrote:

Dalartokat wrote: In UK there is a trial to let people bring in their own containers......https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... pers-told/

...And this is from last APRIL! A brilliant idea (IMO); it should have been highly publicised everywhere!
A simple, undeniable, unassailable, historical FACT is that before plastics were invented, people did not USE plastics - and the human race (and other creatures) surprisingly survived...
The latest "plastics pollution" news item - here... there are so many others...
... and other creatures (not just limited to fish) are also ingesting plastics... and via the food chain - US!
But don't worry - those of us who perpetuate this "fallacy" will no doubt be labelled by some individuals with that pathetic, patronising, and perjorative label of "snowflakes"... (I love alliterations... )
I'm happy that I am concerned about the whole human race (and other species) rather than just my own self, comfort and facilities...

If we don't do something very very expensive and impossible right now the world will be under water and all the ice will disappear from the Anatartic and there will be no food and all sorts by the year 2006 no 2008, 2011, 2013, 2015.No no 2017.
OK the world will be warmer or possibly colder but certainly different at some time to be announced and if I am reminded of all the other end of the world forecasts that didn't come off I will deny them.
I care about people and if I can price them away from using the airports for their own good I can fly and tell my friends abroad how virtuous I am and park at the airport easier and less queues at the duty free.

Dalartokat wrote:All a bit like do as I say and not as I do.............http://uk.businessinsider.com/erik-solh ... ns-2018-11

Be fair that’s a drop in the ocean compared with the money some are making out of all this nonsense.

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:

Dalartokat wrote:All a bit like do as I say and not as I do.............http://uk.businessinsider.com/erik-solh ... ns-2018-11

Be fair that’s a drop in the ocean compared with the money some are making out of all this nonsense.

Out of what nonsense?

Trigger wrote: Out of what nonsense?

This whole enviromental climate change bit.

Like Climate Change the whole plastic bag thing is to make people feel a little better about themselves which is great but does it have to be compulsory?

I have no doubt that the problem is vastly exaggerated, they always are, but even if we accept the figures for what they are worth is this a solution? If it is will it make a shred of difference?

Paper bags generate more water pollutants and more emissions than plastic bags.
Plastic bags generate far less solid waste and use 40% less energy than paper bags.
Even paper bags manufactured from recycled fibre utilise more fossil fuels than plastic bags.
Paper manufacturing requires large amounts of water, energy and chemicals and can emit those toxic chemicals into our air and water.
Paper bags are five to seven times heavier than plastic so more trucks to carry them which also equals more air pollution.

Less than 3% of oil gets converted into plastic. Plastic bags take up about 0.3% of landfill space compared with paper's 40%.
Because plastic bags are stronger they have a much higher potential for re-use such as rubbish bags, bags for toilet paper etc.

When a bag tax was introduced in Ireland in 2002 allegedly the number of bags the stores handed out fell by 90%. I always take these figures with a pinch of salt, apparently the London Congestion charge cut congestion but anyone who is a regular on London's roads knows that to be nonsense.
But lets run with it.
Problem is 80-90% of these bags get re-used, so in Ireland as the use of plastic supermarket bags declined, so sales of plastic bags for all these additional re-use reasons, such as bin liners, rocketed by some 400%. Of course, these packaged plastic bags are designed to be stronger and therefore contain much more plastic than checkout bags. The Irish bag tax actually resulted in a net gain in the number of plastic bags going into landfill.

Today's plastic bags use 70% less plastic than 20 years ago so that to me would be the route to go down as that's real progress, but we don't get to virtue signal about that as much as waving our cotton bag I guess.
By the way don't forget to use your cotton bag at least 130 times because it is only then it will have a lower global warming[climate change this week?] potential than a single use plastic bag.

Even if we ignore all of the above what difference will our bag tax or indeed any bag tax in the West make?
90% of the waste comes from Asia, of the top 20 plastic carrying rivers 7 are in China. Trust me India and China are not going to take a blind bit of notice of this.

So a nice few extra lire to the Finance Ministry to be used for?
Maybe use it on the sewage system? If we could flush toilet paper that would cut platic bag usage by a huge amount.


So as with all these things;

1) Prove there is a problem

2) Prove it is a priority over other problems. For example I guess I would have supported a ban on fox hunting but I'm not sure if I would have prioritised it over crime, education etc.

3) Actually think about the solution before throwing money at it or inconveniencing people. Some of these solutions cause more problems than they solve.

Does the plastic bag ban apply to all outlets I wonder? Him indoors went into Illelis on Friday and the lady on check out told him the ban didn't apply to them. This got me thinking, is the ban based on size of the store, the number of employees or the ability to pay a fine if and when? Or perhaps she was just being contrary?

sophie wrote:Does the plastic bag ban apply to all outlets I wonder? Him indoors went into Illelis on Friday and the lady on check out told him the ban didn't apply to them. This got me thinking, is the ban based on size of the store, the number of employees or the ability to pay a fine if and when? Or perhaps she was just being contrary?

I am sure that it will be applied with the efficiency and fairness for which the TRNC has become famous.

It's not raining today so maybe the ban is working? Or is the lack of rain a sign that it isn't working?

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:

Trigger wrote: Out of what nonsense?

This whole enviromental climate change bit.

Like Climate Change the whole plastic bag thing is to make people feel a little better about themselves which is great but does it have to be compulsory?

I have no doubt that the problem is vastly exaggerated, they always are, but even if we accept the figures for what they are worth is this a solution? If it is will it make a shred of difference?

Paper bags generate more water pollutants and more emissions than plastic bags.
Plastic bags generate far less solid waste and use 40% less energy than paper bags.
Even paper bags manufactured from recycled fibre utilise more fossil fuels than plastic bags.
Paper manufacturing requires large amounts of water, energy and chemicals and can emit those toxic chemicals into our air and water.
Paper bags are five to seven times heavier than plastic so more trucks to carry them which also equals more air pollution.

Less than 3% of oil gets converted into plastic. Plastic bags take up about 0.3% of landfill space compared with paper's 40%.
Because plastic bags are stronger they have a much higher potential for re-use such as rubbish bags, bags for toilet paper etc.

When a bag tax was introduced in Ireland in 2002 allegedly the number of bags the stores handed out fell by 90%. I always take these figures with a pinch of salt, apparently the London Congestion charge cut congestion but anyone who is a regular on London's roads knows that to be nonsense.
But lets run with it.
Problem is 80-90% of these bags get re-used, so in Ireland as the use of plastic supermarket bags declined, so sales of plastic bags for all these additional re-use reasons, such as bin liners, rocketed by some 400%. Of course, these packaged plastic bags are designed to be stronger and therefore contain much more plastic than checkout bags. The Irish bag tax actually resulted in a net gain in the number of plastic bags going into landfill.

Today's plastic bags use 70% less plastic than 20 years ago so that to me would be the route to go down as that's real progress, but we don't get to virtue signal about that as much as waving our cotton bag I guess.
By the way don't forget to use your cotton bag at least 130 times because it is only then it will have a lower global warming[climate change this week?] potential than a single use plastic bag.

Even if we ignore all of the above what difference will our bag tax or indeed any bag tax in the West make?
90% of the waste comes from Asia, of the top 20 plastic carrying rivers 7 are in China. Trust me India and China are not going to take a blind bit of notice of this.

So a nice few extra lire to the Finance Ministry to be used for?
Maybe use it on the sewage system? If we could flush toilet paper that would cut platic bag usage by a huge amount.


So as with all these things;

1) Prove there is a problem

2) Prove it is a priority over other problems. For example I guess I would have supported a ban on fox hunting but I'm not sure if I would have prioritised it over crime, education etc.

3) Actually think about the solution before throwing money at it or inconveniencing people. Some of these solutions cause more problems than they solve.

You are kind of going off topic imo. Global warming and sustainability are two separate issues. Closely linked, but different.

My point is, as humans, we need to reduce the amount of rubbish we create / discard. I presume you either live in the TRNC or visit, hence the reason you are a member of this forum. Surely you have seen the amount of rubbish on the beaches and the sides of the roads? Speak to people who go diving and ask what they see under the surface.

I am not preaching or saying I am perfect, far from it. What I am saying is that we need to encourage people to be more responsible about their waste. Of course, companies and corporations need to do their bit and think about how products are made / packaged whilst governments do their bit and provide waste disposal units and ensure that the education of future generations is being adhered to.

IMO I think that charging for carrier bags will reduce the amount being used. People will use more bags that are reusable / bags for life, however, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Much much more needs to be done, but it’s a start.

Trigger wrote:

My point is, as humans, we need to reduce the amount of rubbish we create / discard. I presume you either live in the TRNC or visit, hence the reason you are a member of this forum. Surely you have seen the amount of rubbish on the beaches and the sides of the roads? Speak to people who go diving and ask what they see under the surface.

I am not preaching or saying I am perfect, far from it. What I am saying is that we need to encourage people to be more responsible about their waste. Of course, companies and corporations need to do their bit and think about how products are made / packaged whilst governments do their bit and provide waste disposal units and ensure that the education of future generations is being adhered to.

IMO I think that charging for carrier bags will reduce the amount being used. People will use more bags that are reusable / bags for life, however, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Much much more needs to be done, but it’s a start.

My problem with these kind of initiatives is they are never part of a thought out plan and are just tokenism to make people feel better and as always make some money.

Bins on the beaches would be a start. Strict fines for littering. I see frides and such like dumped on mountains.
Get at the companies to reduce packaging on goods which seems to increase daily.

There is now less plastic in plastic bags which I would imagine has eleveated the problem far more than initiatives such as this. Maybe government grants to companies to develop alternatives rather than just throw money at scaremongers.

Trying to nip an old lady for a few quid for being confused over which of 5 bins to use and nipping the shopper for a few quid without any clarity on where that money is going is just tokenism.
Let's be honest reducing the plastic bags by 100% in little old TRNC won't make a fig of difference in the scheme of things.
If governments were serious about this they would bring sanctions against China who seems to be the worst offnder. But they won't.

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:

Trigger wrote:

My point is, as humans, we need to reduce the amount of rubbish we create / discard. I presume you either live in the TRNC or visit, hence the reason you are a member of this forum. Surely you have seen the amount of rubbish on the beaches and the sides of the roads? Speak to people who go diving and ask what they see under the surface.

I am not preaching or saying I am perfect, far from it. What I am saying is that we need to encourage people to be more responsible about their waste. Of course, companies and corporations need to do their bit and think about how products are made / packaged whilst governments do their bit and provide waste disposal units and ensure that the education of future generations is being adhered to.

IMO I think that charging for carrier bags will reduce the amount being used. People will use more bags that are reusable / bags for life, however, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Much much more needs to be done, but it’s a start.

My problem with these kind of initiatives is they are never part of a thought out plan and are just tokenism to make people feel better and as always make some money.

Bins on the beaches would be a start. Strict fines for littering. I see frides and such like dumped on mountains.
Get at the companies to reduce packaging on goods which seems to increase daily.

There is now less plastic in plastic bags which I would imagine has eleveated the problem far more than initiatives such as this. Maybe government grants to companies to develop alternatives rather than just throw money at scaremongers.

Trying to nip an old lady for a few quid for being confused over which of 5 bins to use and nipping the shopper for a few quid without any clarity on where that money is going is just tokenism.
Let's be honest reducing the plastic bags by 100% in little old TRNC won't make a fig of difference in the scheme of things.
If governments were serious about this they would bring sanctions against China who seems to be the worst offnder. But they won't.

All valid points and I cannot argue with your opinion of government policy... but I still think charging people for carrier bags is a good starting point.

Trigger wrote:

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:

Trigger wrote:

My point is, as humans, we need to reduce the amount of rubbish we create / discard. I presume you either live in the TRNC or visit, hence the reason you are a member of this forum. Surely you have seen the amount of rubbish on the beaches and the sides of the roads? Speak to people who go diving and ask what they see under the surface.

I am not preaching or saying I am perfect, far from it. What I am saying is that we need to encourage people to be more responsible about their waste. Of course, companies and corporations need to do their bit and think about how products are made / packaged whilst governments do their bit and provide waste disposal units and ensure that the education of future generations is being adhered to.

IMO I think that charging for carrier bags will reduce the amount being used. People will use more bags that are reusable / bags for life, however, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Much much more needs to be done, but it’s a start.

My problem with these kind of initiatives is they are never part of a thought out plan and are just tokenism to make people feel better and as always make some money.

Bins on the beaches would be a start. Strict fines for littering. I see frides and such like dumped on mountains.
Get at the companies to reduce packaging on goods which seems to increase daily.

There is now less plastic in plastic bags which I would imagine has eleveated the problem far more than initiatives such as this. Maybe government grants to companies to develop alternatives rather than just throw money at scaremongers.

Trying to nip an old lady for a few quid for being confused over which of 5 bins to use and nipping the shopper for a few quid without any clarity on where that money is going is just tokenism.
Let's be honest reducing the plastic bags by 100% in little old TRNC won't make a fig of difference in the scheme of things.
If governments were serious about this they would bring sanctions against China who seems to be the worst offnder. But they won't.

All valid points and I cannot argue with your opinion of government policy... but I still think charging people for carrier bags is a good starting point.

Well if the Ministry of Finance buy hybrid cars with their windful then some good will have come from it

paying for plastic bags is a good thing, it should be much more than 10 or 15 kurus. all countries should pay for plastic bags, in fact just stop producing them. i don't understand why theres such a big deal about people not thinking its a good thing n whinging, if you don't want to pay for a bag, don't take one. hardly rocket science. i don't give two hoots where the money is going from the revenue of plastic bags, as long as theres less plastic in the oceans and less people using plastic bags n them polluting the environment with then i applaud the move. sorry but as stated above by 2050 there will be more plastic in the ocean than fish, so if theres a chance of reducing that plastic in the ocean by enforcing a charge on plastic bags, Good! if everything in the ocean is polluted to hell and dies off its goodbye to planet earth.

Just buy a roll of cling film and wrap everything up in that! Would you really buy your meat/fish wrapped up in an old copy of CT? Take a metal bucket to the veg shop for carrying your veg home in, clean and easy to re-use! Stop buying big water (19ltr) bottles and switch to the reusable glass ones - much more expensive but you have to pay for the feel good factor. How far can you really go without any proper recycling system in place?

mermaidsexist wrote: I don't give two hoots where the money is going from the revenue of plastic bags, as long as theres less plastic in the oceans and less people using plastic bags n them polluting the environment with then i applaud the move.

Well as you don't care then I guess the Finance ministry can have Mercedes instead of Hybrid cars.
No thought that it would be one step of a well thought out plan? Maybe it would produce seed money for other initiatives which actually might make a differecne?
Nope just tax and that will solve the problem overnight.
So the fact when they charged for plastic bags in Ireland there ended up being more plastic produced doesn't register?

mermaidsexist wrote:
sorry but as stated above by 2050 there will be more plastic in the ocean than fish

When ever I read one of those scare headlines I know it is total BS. Will there be more plastic than fish before the Antartic Ice disappears or before California is totally underwater?

I think everyone carefully reads the end of the world by 2012 theories once and some are even taken in. The arguments are presented in a compelling way. Generally a lot fewer people buy into the brand new world is ending in 2013 theory.
I often wonder if it is the same people who are coming up with this stuff. The end of the world schtick is getting a bit tired but the new environmental climate change stuff is the gift that keeps giving.

Shame it isn't one of the ten year warnings, they have obviously learnt their lesson there. Had it been a ten year warning I would happily bet everything I have with you that it will turn out to be nonsense like all the other predictions.

No doubt when it turns out to be a lot of drivel there will be the usual back pedalling. "No I didn't actually say all fish, if you read the report carefully on page 932 of the notes I said there was a danger that the three finned lilac spotted tuna could be slightly down in 2050. Obviously it will actually be caused by over fishing but give me a break I needed the grant"

Well, so far as I can tell, Lemar in Alsancak haven't charged yet (at least they didn't Saturday or yesterday) and someone here this morning says her little corner shops in Lapta are not charging either. Anyone know if the others are bothering yet?

Supreme were not offering any bags yesterday but luckily we remembered seeing this thread and took our own.

oh for gods sake EnjoyingTheSun, who rattled your cage? wake up to reality. go swim in the sea and look for yourself the amount of plastic in there. speak to fishermen, they will tell you about their hauls, fish are being gutted and plastics spilling out of them. turtles ingesting so much plastic bags they are getting the bends and dying (its happening in trunk as we speak) sorry, i don't take notice of mainstream media garbage, i speak of the facts. so rather than just quote what everyone else is saying and adding your two pence, maybe you should look into the environment and research before rubbishing scientists claims. every post you comment on you have to start a huge bloody rant about something and taking it all off topic. clearly nothin better to do than use your agendas on others and when you don't like it start quoting other people. if you have a problem with the plastic bag tax take it up with the government.

Apologies to Kiplet for your post starting off great to end up like this.

mermaidsexist wrote:oh for gods sake EnjoyingTheSun, who rattled your cage? wake up to reality. go swim in the sea and look for yourself the amount of plastic in there. speak to fishermen, they will tell you about their hauls, fish are being gutted and plastics spilling out of them. turtles ingesting so much plastic bags they are getting the bends and dying (its happening in trunk as we speak) sorry, i don't take notice of mainstream media garbage, i speak of the facts. so rather than just quote what everyone else is saying and adding your two pence, maybe you should look into the environment and research before rubbishing scientists claims. every post you comment on you have to start a huge bloody rant about something and taking it all off topic. clearly nothin better to do than use your agendas on others and when you don't like it start quoting other people. if you have a problem with the plastic bag tax take it up with the government.

Apologies to Kiplet for your post starting off great to end up like this.

Any plastic in the sea is too much, I have no argument there. My argument is how to solve it, this tax won't. It is tokenism to make people feel better.

As for rubbishing scientists, if they continue to make ludicrous claims that never come true then they should expect to be called on it. I respect people being religeous but if they say the world is ending every year and it doesn't happen then how is somebody pointing out they are talking BS at fault?

Quoting other people? Like by 2050 there will be more plastic than fish? Is it that I am quoting the wrong people?
If somebody's opinion is different it is a rant?

I'd take it up with the Government but I think they will be busy at the car showrooms with their lottery win.

Here in the UK, just been shopping in Iceland today - a notice states "We have now stopped providing our 5p plastic bags" .
Now, will TBTS be frothing at the mouth because Iceland were charging for plastic bags (as required by law in the UK)....
..or frothing at the mouth because customers have now been cruelly, stupidly and unjustifiably deprived of using plastic bags.....

jofra wrote:Here in the UK, just been shopping in Iceland today - a notice states "We have now stopped providing our 5p plastic bags" .
Now, will TBTS be frothing at the mouth because Iceland were charging for plastic bags (as required by law in the UK)....
..or frothing at the mouth because customers have now been cruelly, stupidly and unjustifiably deprived of using plastic bags.....

I’m guessing this was addressed to me the TBTS rather than ETS meant I missed it.
No I won’t froth at the mouth I don’t use Iceland and I assume that many will join me in not using Iceland until the economics of their virtue signaling will force them to bring back their plastic bags. Market forces and all that.
As for your unselfish plastic free world you survive and thrive in…..

jofra wrote: A simple, undeniable, unassailable, historical FACT is that before plastics were invented, people did not USE plastics - and the human race (and other creatures) surprisingly survived...
But don't worry - those of us who perpetuate this "fallacy" will no doubt be labelled by some individuals with that pathetic, patronising, and perjorative label of "snowflakes"... (I love alliterations... )
I'm happy that I am concerned about the whole human race (and other species) rather than just my own self, comfort and facilities...

Might as well cover that too.
Just confirm that you don’t buy food packaged in plastic and ensure any children you are related to don’t have to suffer those plastic child proof medicine bottles or bleach bottles that kind of stuff? Guess you use glass bottles? Obviously you can’t make them child proof, how do you make them shatter proof?
Obviously your car is completely plastic free. It must weigh a at least twice what normal cars do, how much fuel does it use? Apparently every pound of a vehicles weight saved reduces 25 pounds of those nasty carbon dioxide emissions.

That plastic free car can’t be that safe either. No seat belts or airbags or plastic in your windshield to make it less likely to break in a collision.

When you say we survived before plastic, I can’t argue there.
Though World life expectancy was less than 50 in the 1950s it is now over 70.
I’m not saying that is down to plastic but disposable plastic syringes, transparent plastic blood bags, plastic heart valves, knee and hip joints,prosthetic limbs, vessel supports to keep blocked blood vessels open, contact lenses, eye glass lenses, hearing aids etc etc etc probably haven’t done much harm.