Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Not that i want to open one, but the Supreme Court has today ruled that Boris Johnson's decision to suspend Parliament was "unlawful".

Lady Hale, the Supreme Court president said, "the effect on the fundamentals of democracy was extreme."

What about the extreme effect on the fundamentals of the result of the democratic referendum Lady Hale?

Not to mention the mockery of democracy and the UK as a whole, that pro-European MP's are making, particularly those democratically elected by their constituents that may well have voted leave.

Doesn't count the scallywags and illiterates voted for it they are not worthy. The left wing moneyed toffs supporting the judges and lawyers know best.That's the problem when you let the great unwashed have a vote.

Lady Hale did make a point of saying it was not about Brexit but about the law - if you are happy following a Government that lies to the Monarch then fine by me. The decision of the Supreme Court may not be liked by some but it was a decision made by 11 members at the highest court in the land, I can not argue with it.

I think we have to listen and understand what Lady Hale announced. Their findings actually had nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit (as stated by Waddo) it is about the Law of the land and its wrong to combine the two in this case.

Just think about it, we could be unfortunate enough to have a President who is groaning on and on at the UN as I type. I swear he could hypnotise a hypnotist he has the most boring, monosyllabic voice ever and full of hot air. It sounds and looks as if he is sending himself to sleep. Dreadful, dreadful, ugh

In a way, similar to obtaining money by deception -

"The defendant:
1. made a false representation.
2. dishonestly.
3. knowing that the representation was or might be untrue or misleading.
4. with intent to make a gain for himself or another, to cause loss to another or to expose another to risk of loss.

Fraud Act 2006, The | The Crown Prosecution Service"

i.e. not so much the deed/act as the method and motive - which decides the lawfulness or otherwise....

How many of the learned 11 have served on EU courts? Those Brits being paid by EU quangos (and all of them are filthy rich) will combine their expertise and assets to thwart Brexit. Maybe politics will now begin to have an impact on judicial decisions. Anarchy is looming bold.

Well it appears the attorney general advised Boris so acting on his advise he made a decision so not the same as deceiving or lying. As stated what I thought funny was it was supposed to be 8 judges then increased to 11 and all voted the same. Looking at the makeup of them 8 were for remain the rest leave. Democracy has two faces the people's vote 17 million and the mp' s who went against democracy aided by a biased speaker. What chance democracy??

Surely if you don't like the law, you change the law. You cannot blame the judges, and to comment on their wealth etc seems hardly relevant. I would rather have our judiciary than many others around the world.

Sultan wrote:Surely if you don't like the law, you change the law. You cannot blame the judges, and to comment on their wealth etc seems hardly relevant. I would rather have our judiciary than many others around the world.

The relevance is, and you appear to miss the point, the UK wealthy EU employed people with influence within the UK will do everything possible to avoid falling off their gravy train, including opposing a democratically arrived at vote. The "snout - trough" syndrome in all its glory.

And don't forget, the Supreme Court (I suspect an American Institution) was invented by that grinning unloved Booby Mr Tony Blair. The UK had operated quite happily and successfully without. I suspect Mrs Thatcher and probably Winston Churchill will be turning in their respective graves.

sophie wrote:....The UK had operated quite happily and successfully without....

"Before the Supreme Court came into existence, so-called "last resort" hearings were dealt with by 12 professional judges sitting in the House of Lords."
The "Supreme Court" assumed the judicial functions of the House of Lords, which had been exercised by the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (commonly called "Law Lords"), the 12 judges appointed as members of the House of Lords to carry out its judicial business as the Appellate Committee of the House of Lords.

Isn't this is what Brexit is about British Judges ,British Courts ,British Law ,Boris could always appeal to ECHR

kevnmax wrote:Isn't this is what Brexit is about British Judges ,British Courts ,British Law ,Boris could always appeal to ECHR

But, the judiciary must be totally impartial in their interpretation and judgements. Personal interests, including EU payments, should preclude them from hearing the case before them. However, the current system will look after their own interests.

The supreme court judges are appointed by the Queen on recommendation by the prime minister. How can the argument be used to decry them and their decisions when they were put in place by people you presumably support?

With regards to the last point raised the judgement was about the legality of prorogation, nothing to do with the EU or Brexit.

Sorry, deleted because posted twice.

"A conspiracy theory is an explanation of an event or situation that invokes a conspiracy by sinister and powerful actors, often political in motivation, when other explanations are more probable. The term has a pejorative connotation, implying that the appeal to a conspiracy is based on prejudice or insufficient evidence. Conspiracy theories resist falsification and are reinforced by circular reasoning: both evidence against the conspiracy and an absence of evidence for it, are re-interpreted as evidence of its truth, and the conspiracy becomes a matter of faith rather than proof."

If Corbyn gets in I will be 100% behind EU membership. We will need every German hand out we can get.

Can I pose an interrogative question which has been puzzling me?

When warnings of dire consequences in the event of Brexit (deal or no deal) were being mooted, the cry which was heard was “Project Fear” from those who supported the leave “side”, not least here in this Forum

But when many of those same (and worse) dire consequences were presented in the Operation Yellowhammer report I heard a deafening silence from the Project Fear accusers.

Any explanation or is it just me (probably the latter).

Mowgli597 wrote:Can I pose an interrogative question which has been puzzling me?

When warnings of dire consequences in the event of Brexit (deal or no deal) were being mooted, the cry which was heard was “Project Fear” from those who supported the leave “side”, not least here in this Forum

But when many of those same (and worse) dire consequences were presented in the Operation Yellowhammer report I heard a deafening silence from the Project Fear accusers.

Any explanation or is it just me (probably the latter).

Pretty much a continuation of project fear imo.

A report that was called for by a May government that was in favour of remaining, compiled by civil servants who have not exactly kept their sympathies quiet, of which parts of which that were "accidently" leaked.

The problem with all these tactics, such as activists buttonholing Johnson or making off the cuff speeches to camera as apparent ordinary members of the public and alleged right wing physical attacks for which there is no evidence is they are getting a little obvious and cliched.

Mowgli597 wrote:Can I pose an interrogative question which has been puzzling me?

When warnings of dire consequences in the event of Brexit (deal or no deal) were being mooted, the cry which was heard was “Project Fear” from those who supported the leave “side”, not least here in this Forum

But when many of those same (and worse) dire consequences were presented in the Operation Yellowhammer report I heard a deafening silence from the Project Fear accusers.

Any explanation or is it just me (probably the latter).

Has ETS points out just an extension of project fear, shown to be a list of worst case scenarios assuming that no mitigation work carried out, produced in a civil service office without any attempt to contact the likes of Port of Dover or the Calais.
I imagine there are many such reports written on subjects like cyber attacks, invasions by foreign powers , ebola epidemic for example but yellow hammer report was jumped on by the remoaner MPs to help there cause.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sQNBjeP9QHY

Ah. I see. It’s all just a load of old cobblers. So this is correct:

The leaked report about Operation Yellowhammer has been dismissed as ‘project fear’ by those who wrote it.

After the report on the probable consequences of a no-deal Brexit were leaked yesterday, senior government ministers for whom the document was specifically produced have rushed to dismiss it as nothing more than scaremongering by angry remoaners who should get over it.

Michael Gove, the Secretary of State for Cocaine, addressed reporters this morning saying, “Yes, this is our report, but it is simultaneously NOT our report, in so much as whoever wrote it, despite being instructed by us to do so, is clearly a remoaner who is fully committed to spreading project fear and talking down our great nation.

“The trouble we often find is that we ask our civil servants to write a report that predicts an outcome we all want it to, but in some cases, such as this one, they go away and actually research the facts and ask experts, like a bunch of namby-pamby liberals committed to scaremongering our fine nation.

“When we said we wanted the truth, we meant the version of truth we’re telling people to believe, not the actual truth. This really isn’t difficult to follow.”

He concluded, “As such, we would therefore ask that the media kindly disregard this yellowhammer report and wait until Boris and I have finished making up our own version of it, which we will release to you sometime next week, or possibly this week if my speed dealer gets back to me soon.”

I've completely lost track of who said 'who said what', and why

...and no thank you, don't bother to explain it, I've lost interest.

I would like to know what they're actually going to DO about it though, rather than raking over the coals interminably...

Posted twice.

Mowgli597 wrote:Ah. I see. It’s all just a load of old cobblers. So this is correct:

The leaked report about Operation Yellowhammer has been dismissed as ‘project fear’ by those who wrote it.

After the report on the probable consequences of a no-deal Brexit were leaked yesterday, senior government ministers for whom the document was specifically produced have rushed to dismiss it as nothing more than scaremongering by angry remoaners who should get over it.

Michael Gove, the Secretary of State for Cocaine, addressed reporters this morning saying, “Yes, this is our report, but it is simultaneously NOT our report, in so much as whoever wrote it, despite being instructed by us to do so, is clearly a remoaner who is fully committed to spreading project fear and talking down our great nation.

“The trouble we often find is that we ask our civil servants to write a report that predicts an outcome we all want it to, but in some cases, such as this one, they go away and actually research the facts and ask experts, like a bunch of namby-pamby liberals committed to scaremongering our fine nation.

“When we said we wanted the truth, we meant the version of truth we’re telling people to believe, not the actual truth. This really isn’t difficult to follow.”

He concluded, “As such, we would therefore ask that the media kindly disregard this yellowhammer report and wait until Boris and I have finished making up our own version of it, which we will release to you sometime next week, or possibly this week if my speed dealer gets back to me soon.”

Dont know if you're being serious? if so the banner at the top says "spoof news and satire" Goves title was a bit of a giveaway on the standard of journalism involved

Golly gosh. There’s me being taken in by a conspiracy theory. Whatever next.

So there isn’t a Minister for Cocaine then? There might as well be.

Mowgli597 wrote:Golly gosh. There’s me being taken in by a conspiracy theory. Whatever next.

So there isn’t a Minister for Cocaine then? There might as well be.

I nominate Jacob Leeks Mogg
He looks as though he may be on something 'relaxing'...

Bercow, Corbyn orating sends people to sleep!

ortating, is that the opposite as rotating.

It should not take a massive amount of intellect or understanding to appreciate the difficulties arising from a NO DEAL exit. The total change in trading protocol and lack of preparation and understanding of the new system is very worrying indeed.

The UK will immediately be under WTO rules of trade. Tariffs and regulation within are rather more difficult than we have benefited from since the 70s
Of course the World will be open for trade on November 1st in the event. Cant see any quick fix there as exporters reel back from potential trade loss of losing the freedoms within EU customs union. I certainly see some drastic labour cutbacks given the fall off of European trade.

Firstly let’s follow the democratic wishes of the electorate and get on with it now. Article 50 should have been implemented the day after the referendum (as promised by David Cameron). Our prime minister chose instead to "spit his dummy out" and resign (as the vote didn’t go his way). If he’d honoured his promise we’d have been freed from the EU’s shackles by now.

As for trade, mainly food stuffs, the EU will no longer be paying our farmers not to produce. Instead we can use some of our EU contribution (to the EU club) to continue to subsidise our farmers to supply to the UK market. The same applies for farmers breeding livestock. What other money we save can be put into the NHS etc. Instead of being wasted by the unelected EU bureaucrats.

Over the past years whilst shopping in the UK we have noticed that the greater majority of our fruit and vegetables comes from non EU countries ie South America, Egypt, Morocco, Kenya etc etc. Not to mention China and the Indian sub continent (we get all sorts from there). We try to avoid EU food produce because the majority of it is tasteless, we try to buy from local growers, much tastier!

Smiley, in the not too distant past when we lived in two areas of Norfolk, one of which was on the Norfolk/Suffolk border, we regularly picked our own strawberries, raspberries, black and red currants. Then of course my favourite apple, a russet. Close by were cider apples, across the road was the pub that sold the cider. Then there were endless supply of PYO vegetables plus tomatoes, cucumbers etc. About a mile away we could buy freshly picked mushrooms (we were not allowed to PYO). About 7 miles away were the asparagus beds with a shed on the side of the road and we bought them by the bucket full. I could go on for ages, but my point being everything tasted like nectar. If we leave the EU, perhaps supermarkets will stop importing all the tasteless crap and go back to "real" food. What does it matter if you can't buy everything you want for 365 days of the year. Shoppers in the UK, for goodness sake have some imagination and choose an alternative. I'll get off my soap box now, but its a subject I feel really passionate about. Please don't come back "well what about people who live in cities?" My answer to that, then learn to educate the Supermarkets with your feet and go elsewhere. Two Supermarkets that I know of, actually do try and purchase items within a 25 mile radius if its at all possible. Support your local shop keeper as well, they are more able to adapt.

sophie wrote:
"well what about people who live in cities?"

If we can import bananas from Ecuador to say London, it shouldn't be beyond our wit and imagination to move strawberries from Kent to London.
The problem when you have government bodies micromanaging and many of your own politicians denigrating you, you lose sight of the fact that Britains are a fairly adaptable, innovative bunch.

waz-24-7 wrote:
Cant see any quick fix there as exporters reel back from potential trade loss of losing the freedoms within EU customs union. I certainly see some drastic labour cutbacks given the fall off of European trade.

Fingers crossed eh Waz? God forbid that people aren't punished for picking the wrong option

Whilst on the subject of "drastic labour cutbacks", please view the attached link, it speaks for itself.
https://www.facebook.com/638178836/post ... 37?sfns=mo

smiley wrote:Whilst on the subject of "drastic labour cutbacks", please view the attached link, it speaks for itself.
https://www.facebook.com/638178836/post ... 37?sfns=mo

Hence why we are left as a nation of part-time workers.

The list has been "doing the rounds" for several months. In the interest of accuracy of facts could anyone please point me to where any evidence exists to support any of the claims.
Could I add to the list -toy production moved to North Pole by Father Christmas EU funded.

nimmoy wrote:The list has been "doing the rounds" for several months. In the interest of accuracy of facts could anyone please point me to where any evidence exists to support any of the claims.
Could I add to the list -toy production moved to North Pole by Father Christmas EU funded.

John Redwood seems to be saying something similar......https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2016/06/1 ... -industry/

Dalartokat wrote:

nimmoy wrote:The list has been "doing the rounds" for several months. In the interest of accuracy of facts could anyone please point me to where any evidence exists to support any of the claims.
Could I add to the list -toy production moved to North Pole by Father Christmas EU funded.

John Redwood seems to be saying something similar......https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2016/06/1 ... -industry/

Maybe this is what your looking for....http://ilovetheeu.co.uk/trade/no-the-eu ... of-the-uk/

There appears again a prolific burst of quotes from media and celebrities that relate how great things used to be in the UK.
Mr Redwood,,,,The fall off of steel and aluminium is because other global producers are more competitive and the commodities are therefore cheaper. Its that simple.

The fact is the global nature of trade and competitive capitalism has left the UK way behind particularly in making stuff to sell.
Many Brexit supporters of note believe the UK can spread its wings and negotiate trade deals further afield. That task is not only immense but its a competitive and cost driven world economy that demands services that are very much more widely available than they were even 10 years ago. Services that the UK can provide better to local markets over the channel.

I remain firmly of the opinion that the UK is better within the Union than as a stand alone and lesser global power. Many continually narrate how we used to produce x amounts of steel and x amounts of fruit and x amounts of fish landed.

Its all history. Time to modern up.
The planet is under massive changes both environmentally and also in the way global powers and trades relate to each other.
This is not the time for isolationism such as BREXIT or right wing nationalistic views such as those seen within BREXIT agenda.
It is a time for co operation. acceptance and co existence to maintain the planet as a habitable environment for mankind for as long as possible.

waz-24-7 wrote:
The fact is the global nature of trade and competitive capitalism has left the UK way behind particularly in making stuff to sell.

Ok, let's try this for the thousandth time.
We don't make much to sell hence we import more than we export.
Sooo if the EU won't sell us something at a decent price we go elsewhere. Where can negotiate a better price because we are now not tied into the EU and beholden to negotiate through them and buy from EU countries as a default. We also do not have to put tariffs on the goods because we don't have to protect our fellow EU members. For all our faults we are the fifth biggest economy in the world so we are business that people want.

waz-24-7 wrote:
This is not the time for isolationism such as BREXIT

Wanting to trade with 160 odd countries rather than 28 is isolationist? You know what the word means right?

waz-24-7 wrote: right wing nationalistic views such as those seen within BREXIT agenda.

Still going with the 17 million fascists line? If it nationalistic to feel pride in your country and wish for its prosperity then I would hope that all but the party first communists qualify as nationalists by your narrow definition.

You have consistently proved that your agenda is based purely on self interest and what is best for your business.

ETS
I remind you it is not the EU that has taken the UK into this mess. The 17 million who, in my opinion, have been hoodwinked into a false belief have.
The EU is our biggest customer and trade with the Union is massively important. The FREE trade agreement with our biggest customer is in the main why we are the 5th largest economy, Who in their right mind puts this into divorce proceedings.

Of course the UK wants to trade with the "160" that you indicate. Please accept that being outside the Union does not make it easier. The UK products and services remain unchanged regardless, There is no magic want that will have these 160 queuing at our door in November to lap up our products and services.

The 17 million are certainly not all fascists. Not intentionally at least.
Most have swallowed the line that being outside the Union will solve the global issue of people migration. Many swallowed the line that the NHS will have the red bus £350 million injection. Many swallowed the other red bus slogan portraying millions o turks wanting to enter the UK.

My own interests are not of real consequence but of course important to me.

You, I make an assumption, live as an ex pat outside the UK and clearly enjoying the sun that your chosen home provides; but seek to hinder others from making more of their lives possibly in your homeland where prospects may well be better.
Hypocritical indeed I think.

waz-24-7 wrote:
The FREE trade agreement with our biggest customer is in the main why we are the 5th largest economy, Who in their right mind puts this into divorce proceedings.

We were still the 5th biggest economy in 1971 its not us who China has replaced in the top 5.

waz-24-7 wrote:
There is no magic want that will have these 160 queuing at our door in November to lap up our products and services.

What part of we are mainly a customer are you struggling with? One of the few things we are actually good at manufacturing is weapons and we sell those outside the EU in the main.

waz-24-7 wrote:
The 17 million are certainly not all fascists. Not intentionally at least.
Most have swallowed the line that being outside the Union will solve the global issue of people migration. Many swallowed the line that the NHS will have the red bus £350 million injection. Many swallowed the other red bus slogan portraying millions o turks wanting to enter the UK.

So naive fascists and simple minded?

waz-24-7 wrote: You, I make an assumption, live as an ex pat outside the UK and clearly enjoying the sun that your chosen home provides; but seek to hinder others from making more of their lives possibly in your homeland where prospects may well be better.
Hypocritical indeed I think.

On the whole leaving will probably have an overall negative on my life. I chose to leave because I believe long term my children/grandchildren would be better off. Or they at least wouldn't be dragged into a superstate without their knowledge or consent.

As for hindering others from making the most of their lives where the prospects may well be better I do think that the UK cannot currently cope with any more economic migrants. Our infrastructure is creaking at capacity at current levels.

Sophie, you said..
we regularly picked our own strawberries, raspberries, black and red currants. Then of course my favourite apple, a russet. Close by were cider apples, across the road was the pub that sold the cider. Then there were endless supply of PYO vegetables plus tomatoes, cucumbers etc. About a mile away we could buy freshly picked mushrooms (we were not allowed to PYO). About 7 miles away were the asparagus beds with a shed on the side of the road and we bought them by the bucket full. I could go on for ages, but my point being everything tasted like nectar. If we leave the EU, perhaps supermarkets will stop importing all the tasteless crap and go back to "real" food.
ok....
İ dont know why those things are not possible any more in the UK, but it certainly has nothing to do with the EU..
i recently was in germany and you can pick and or buy “direct from producer” everywhere the moment you leave the bigger towns. Even in supermarkets they offer “fair trade “ bananas and a selection of bio and-or local grown (seasonal) products....
but but... especially when you buy bio, the real sustainable food, it is a bit bit more expensive.

So, i will amend you last sentence to
If we leave the EU, perhaps the customers will stop demanding all the tasteless crap and are willing to pay for "real" food.

So, whatever, back to the good old times (1970) when you had to work for 250 grams of butter (or 10 eggs) 22 minutes, 2017 it was 6 minutes, for Beef 72/27 and for pork shops 96/22 accordingly.... (statistic for germany)?

Not to mention TVs (maybe to produced in Wales?), washing machines or..... costs for travelling, which will go up very soon. Thomas cook is bancrupt already and others will follow...

But i guess.. the customers will not stop demanding all the cheap(er) tasteless crap... and then?
No taxes or taxes for EU (or other nations) stuff? The one choice is as bad as the other, as trade deficits can not be financed by debts on virtuell values forever, or?
And .. when i just look for the strawberry demand for London alone, i wonder how big Kent is. And i wonder from where all the part time workers will come to do the jobs (and how much the strawberries will be) and how the NHS and infrastructure will cope with that...

Pls do not understand me wrong: the spanian strawberries are only that cheap, because in southern andalusia are 1 million illegal wells digged and (also in italy ) thousands of migrants working, basically, in “slavery”. The “real price” for that strayberries should be much higher. And when i see that the nicer romano cherry tomatoes (not even bio) are even now more expensive as pork shops... then something really is going the wrong way..

Nobody, nobody in the EU forces you to buy tasteless crap.... and every nation within the EU has sufficient possibilities to “change situations”, eg “rising the awarenes” (fair trade, bio, taste or "better nutrition"... ), subsidising bio food or (in)directly taxing conventional food (eg with a relevant C02 tax) or whatever.

İf people really want “the real” food, you will see that very soon a relevant number of local producers will start again...
but for that (and many other things) you do not need to leave the EU, you just need to change things.

kibsolar1999, can't see aby relevance to your comments and my last sentence.

kibsolar1999 wrote:
So, whatever, back to the good old times (1970) when you had to work for 250 grams of butter (or 10 eggs) 22 minutes, 2017 it was 6 minutes, for Beef 72/27 and for pork shops 96/22 accordingly.... (statistic for germany)?

Not to mention TVs (maybe to produced in Wales?), washing machines or..... costs for travelling, which will go up very soon. Thomas cook is bancrupt already and others will follow...

1) The whole world's economies and the people within them has improved since 1970 often more than the countries within the EU.

2) I think we will still be able to buy our TVs from the Far East, just like we do now.

3) The bankruptcy of Thomas Cook has nothing to to with Brexit, the company has been badly run for years and in serious trouble since 2010.

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:

waz-24-7 wrote:
The FREE trade agreement with our biggest customer is in the main why we are the 5th largest economy, Who in their right mind puts this into divorce proceedings.

We were still the 5th biggest economy in 1971 its not us who China has replaced in the top 5.

waz-24-7 wrote:
There is no magic want that will have these 160 queuing at our door in November to lap up our products and services.

What part of we are mainly a customer are you struggling with? One of the few things we are actually good at manufacturing is weapons and we sell those outside the EU in the main.

waz-24-7 wrote:
The 17 million are certainly not all fascists. Not intentionally at least.
Most have swallowed the line that being outside the Union will solve the global issue of people migration. Many swallowed the line that the NHS will have the red bus £350 million injection. Many swallowed the other red bus slogan portraying millions o turks wanting to enter the UK.

So naive fascists and simple minded?

waz-24-7 wrote: You, I make an assumption, live as an ex pat outside the UK and clearly enjoying the sun that your chosen home provides; but seek to hinder others from making more of their lives possibly in your homeland where prospects may well be better.
Hypocritical indeed I think.

On the whole leaving will probably have an overall negative on my life. I chose to leave because I believe long term my children/grandchildren would be better off. Or they at least wouldn't be dragged into a superstate without their knowledge or consent.

As for hindering others from making the most of their lives where the prospects may well be better I do think that the UK cannot currently cope with any more economic migrants. Our infrastructure is creaking at capacity at current levels.

Hmmm
The migration of people is a global phenomenon. The UK, like most successful economic areas is a destination of choice for those seeking success , safety and prosperity, It is madness to think that departing the EU will leave the UK without an immigration issue. Furthermore EU workers like UK ex pats, in the vast majority ,contribute to the economy of their chosen country of residence.

I cannot see how your children and or grandchildren will be better off. Please do explain.

Certainly they will be more isolated in terms of freedom to travel and work within the EU. Perhaps if less EU citizens come to the UK to work then they may get a better chance at employment. With respect...; that leaves them able to apply for a multitude of less prestigious positions such as fruit picking, hospital portaging, manual manufacturing and manual construction opportunities.
They will have much less chance to be sent on deployment by for example HSBC who would chose a German youngster because EU citizens will not need a EU work permit to work in the EU economic region.


I fully understand what a customer is. I seek them out every day.
Customers purchase products and services based on price quality and delivery.
The UK has all these in abundance right now. On November 1st. UK products under WTO terms will be more expensive, less able to compete, take longer to get to market due to increased customs and border crossing bureaucracy.
general outcome.....I 'll buy from Germany.

1971 was a great year then. Its a long long time ago and the UK and your good self and young relations must look forward to what prospects they have. Prospects within the EU and indeed globally. Hindering a valuable relationship with the Union is NOT a solution to your perceived concerns.

waz-24-7 wrote: I cannot see how your children and or grandchildren will be better off. Please do explain.

What would be the point? I have explained several times before and you haven't grasped it and use it as an excuse to bring up subjects I haven't raised. Like you did with immigration here.

waz-24-7 wrote: I fully understand what a customer is. I seek them out every day.

Again totally missed my point. The UK for the most part WILL BE THE CUSTOMER.

waz-24-7 wrote:
1971 was a great year then. Its a long long time ago

You bought up that the UK was the 5th biggest economy in the world as if it was down to the EU. I pointed out that in 1971 before we joined the EU it was the 5th biggest economy in the world.
Get the point?
Is English your first language?

ETS,
Taken then that the UK will be the Customer. To be in a position to BUY goods and services the UK like anyone will need to earn funds to afford any purchases.
This crucial income is generated by earning foreign revenue; exporting, manufacturing and generally selling stuff for a profit.

The state of the UK economy; its strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and indeed threats is not wholly because of trade with the EU.
However it must be accepted that to alienate , hinder or obstruct in any way that trade will most certainly have a negative long term effect to that valuable trading relationship.

waz-24-7 wrote:ETS,
Taken then that the UK will be the Customer. To be in a position to BUY goods and services the UK like anyone will need to earn funds to afford any purchases.
This crucial income is generated by earning foreign revenue....

And there will be no difficulty in earning that revenue - numerous countries have already bought and are/will be even more eager to buy what we will sell...