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Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Thu 11 Jun 2020 12:05 pm
by dippersgirl
“Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?” Nate White, an articulate and witty writer from England wrote the following response:
A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem. For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed. So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.
Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever. I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman. But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.
Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers. And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.
There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface. Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront. Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul. And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist. Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that. He’s not even spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat. He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.
And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully. That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead. There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down.
So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think ‘Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:
• Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.
• You don’t need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.
This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss. After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of "ooops". His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum. God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid. He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump.
And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish: ‘My God… what… have… I… created?' If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Thu 11 Jun 2020 1:03 pm
by EnjoyingTheSun
Trump's a buffoon but he will win a second term.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Thu 11 Jun 2020 1:43 pm
by 13roman58
EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑Thu 11 Jun 2020 1:03 pm
Trump's a buffoon but he will win a second term.
If that happens then it will again show how stupid Americans are!
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Thu 11 Jun 2020 2:18 pm
by Cheetah
Couldn´t agree more. This hits the nail on the head.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Thu 11 Jun 2020 2:28 pm
by EnjoyingTheSun
13roman58 wrote: ↑Thu 11 Jun 2020 1:43 pm
If that happens then it will again show how stupid Americans are!
Hilary last time, Biden this time. The choices are poor
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Thu 11 Jun 2020 2:30 pm
by EnjoyingTheSun
13roman58 wrote: ↑Thu 11 Jun 2020 1:43 pm
If that happens then it will again show how stupid Americans are!
Obama was a very eloquent man but wasn’t a very good president. At least Trump is pro British
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Thu 11 Jun 2020 3:13 pm
by 13roman58
EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑Thu 11 Jun 2020 2:30 pm
13roman58 wrote: ↑Thu 11 Jun 2020 1:43 pm
If that happens then it will again show how stupid Americans are!
Obama was a very eloquent man but wasn’t a very good president. At least Trump is pro British
I think that the relevance of pro British bias pales into insignificance when compared to the global crisis.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Thu 11 Jun 2020 3:48 pm
by EnjoyingTheSun
13roman58 wrote: ↑Thu 11 Jun 2020 3:13 pm
EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑Thu 11 Jun 2020 2:30 pm
13roman58 wrote: ↑Thu 11 Jun 2020 1:43 pm
If that happens then it will again show how stupid Americans are!
Obama was a very eloquent man but wasn’t a very good president. At least Trump is pro British
I think that the relevance of pro British bias pales into insignificance when compared to the global crisis.
Well obviously if you aren't in power you can Monday morning quarterback the life out of the corona virus.
If you are referring to the whole free black Nikes matter thing, if anything that will help Trump get back in.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Thu 11 Jun 2020 4:18 pm
by 13roman58
Nikes???
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Thu 11 Jun 2020 5:31 pm
by EnjoyingTheSun
I’m just noting that while Martin Luther King’s marches and protests were successful for civil rights the protestors never picked up many free trainers on them which seems to be the more modern way
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Thu 11 Jun 2020 8:01 pm
by Charlieboy
A horrible buffoon
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Thu 11 Jun 2020 8:07 pm
by The indicator
Most protesters did behave impeccably unfortunately in every walk of life there are idiots, to belittle black lives matter as black Nikes matter is ignorance at its best
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Thu 11 Jun 2020 8:35 pm
by EnjoyingTheSun
The indicator wrote: ↑Thu 11 Jun 2020 8:07 pm
Most protesters did behave impeccably unfortunately in every walk of life there are idiots, to belittle black lives matter as black Nikes matter is ignorance at its best
Yes as the BBC reported just 27 police officers were injured in the peaceful protest in London. I guess they also said the Titanic had 100s of miles of safe sailing.
There have been a lot of creative statistics bandied around but its a fact that a black guy is far more likely to be killed by another black guy by a huge multiple than by a police officer. So inhibiting every police officer because of the odd thug will ultimately cost far more black lives. Black lives are pawns in the aims of organisations such as BLM and Antifa.
The 4 police officers were sacked the next day and charged with 3 days I believe. Whilst that thug didn’t give George Floyd due process he is unfortunately entitled to it unless you prefer mob rule?
Personally I think in a rush to appease the protesters they have made a mistake by charging him with 2nd degree murder. A good lawyer might get him off of that as you need to prove intent which can be muddied whereas 3rd degree would be a slam dunk.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 12:02 am
by Hedge-fund
dippersgirl wrote: ↑Thu 11 Jun 2020 12:05 pm
“Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?”
Nate White, an articulate and witty writer from England wrote the following response:
A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem. For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed. So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.
Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever. I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman. But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.
Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers. And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.
There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface. Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront. Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul. And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist. Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that. He’s not even spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat. He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.
And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully. That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead. There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down.
So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think ‘Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:
• Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.
• You don’t need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.
This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss. After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of "ooops". His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum. God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid. He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump.
And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish: ‘My God… what… have… I… created?' If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.
Purely in the interests of balance - here's his rival for the Presidency........
https://twitter.com/i/status/1256305809639845889
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 6:55 am
by Medjoul1
Trump pro British? The only thing Trump is pro is Trump
ETS I find some of your remarks offensive (Nikes)
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 7:09 am
by Keithcaley
Medjoul1 wrote: ↑Fri 12 Jun 2020 6:55 am
Trump pro British? The only thing Trump is pro is Trump
ETS I find some of your remarks offensive (Nikes)
He is referring to looting...
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 8:55 am
by EnjoyingTheSun
Medjoul1 wrote: ↑Fri 12 Jun 2020 6:55 am
ETS I find some of your remarks offensive (Nikes)
Rebook man?
Or middle class white man who whilst they have never spoken to a black person for more than 15 seconds knows what they do and don't find offensive and even if they don't will get offended on their behalf?
I might be a bit biased as I was living around Croydon in 2001 when they tried to turn Mark Duggan into a modern day Rosa Parks.
Personally I get offended at the black lives that are going to be ended or ruined by criminals who will be allowed to rule no-go areas but virtue signalling isn't my thing I'm into practicalities.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 9:02 am
by frontalman
The indicator wrote: ↑Thu 11 Jun 2020 8:07 pm
Most protesters did behave impeccably unfortunately in every walk of life there are idiots, to belittle black lives matter as black Nikes matter is ignorance at its best
Completely agree.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 9:06 am
by frontalman
Trump is an abomination who makes the Anti-christ look like Mother Theresa. He would sell his Mother to get re-elected. I think Robert de Niro's comment at the Oscars a couple of years ago was spot on.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 10:13 am
by EnjoyingTheSun
frontalman wrote: ↑Fri 12 Jun 2020 9:06 am
Trump is an abomination who makes the Anti-christ look like Mother Theresa. He would sell his Mother to get re-elected. I think Robert de Niro's comment at the Oscars a couple of years ago was spot on.
Jesus, you're quoting Hollywood actors???
Was that the same Oscars where Meryl Streep led the standing ovation for convicted child rapist Roman Polanski?
I guess unlike the jailed Weinstein, Polanski might still make some films to employ them.
Was De Niro one of the actors that was going to leave America if Trump became President? Guess the weather and movie opportunities in Canada wasn't a good as they thought?
As a rule I don't listen too much to what actors have to say. I don't think Erol lives in the real world at times but De Niro and Meryl.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XngIIG7UYM
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 10:33 am
by frontalman
So all actors are hypocrites like all blacks are looters?
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 10:47 am
by EnjoyingTheSun
frontalman wrote: ↑Fri 12 Jun 2020 9:02 am
The indicator wrote: ↑Thu 11 Jun 2020 8:07 pm
Most protesters did behave impeccably unfortunately in every walk of life there are idiots, to belittle black lives matter as black Nikes matter is ignorance at its best
Completely agree.
OK I'm guessing the 'peaceful' protests in London weren't solely about gentle George Floyd and were a protest about our police as well.
Also as we don't have the gun crime America has we can look at our incidents a lot easier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_k ... ed_Kingdom
I'm not sure how complete this list is but it seems reasonably well researched.
From 2000 we have 57 deaths. Or less than 3 a year, so not an epidemic by any means.
In the last 18 months 3 people have been shot, all BAME. 2 were stabbing people while wearing fake suicide vests and one was 'just' threatening with knives.
Now lets dig down into that 57.
44 were armed. Unless you don't think a police officer is entitled to defend themselves or the public or maybe believe they should be able to shot the gun or knife out of the criminals hand a la Roy Rogers I don't think anyone can have any complaints about them.
That leaves 13, over 20 years.
5 were white, so as saying white lives matter or all lives matter is deemed racist we have to ignore those.
Pity because some such as Ian Tomlinson are well worth investigating.
So that leaves 8, over 20 years.
Of our 8;
It seems 2 had heart attacks trying to swallow drugs while being searched by police.
4 had mental health problems and went completely out of control Police were called by family or hospital, often unwillingly as they are not medically trained nurses after all. After restraining the out of control mentallly ill people, 4 later died of heart attacks.
The details of Sheku Bayoh’s case sound worth looking into, what we do know for sure is he had Ecstasy and alpha PVP, a synthetic psychostimulant in his system and it took 5-9 police to restrain him.
Jean Charles de Menzes was a mess from start to finish. I could say he wasn’t legally allowed in the country in the first place but that would be a cheap shot.
Two weeks after the July 7th bombings in 2005 there were 4 attempted bombings.
Menzes came out of a block the police had under surveillance for terror suspects. He closely resembled one of them.
The police followed him onto a tube.
Now I travelled to London on July 7th and subsequently and if you weren't in the area it would be hard to convey the fear and paranoia that was abundant with suicide bombers in London targeting tubes and buses.
Menzes is on a tube, the armed police were convinced he was a suicide bomber and could kill all on board. The tragic results were inevitable.
Obviously you can Monday morning the life out of it but unless you were in the moment I can't see as you can judge.
So the one case where the police were 100% responsible for the death of a completely innocent man was the Mendes case.
Was the fact that he was BAME a factor in his death?
Well I guess if he was Swedish he wouldn't have resembled one of the bombers but no, not really.
So looking at the stats for the UK I'd say if;
1) You don't have a criminal record
2) You don't resist arrest
3) You don't try and swallow golf ball sized batches of drugs
4) Haven't totally fried your brain on skunk down the years
5) Don't wave a knife or gun around
6) All of the above
You're going to be pretty safe.
I know the students want to live this little fantasy of being Sandinistas having to hide from Contra death squads or being a Civil rights activist being harassed by Bull Connor and his department but I'm afraid the facts don't bear this out.
Still its a good excuse to wear the Che t-shirt I guess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDIloJQRVTY
Not exactly MLK with a crowd peacefully walking into police batons singing we shall overcome, is it?
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 10:51 am
by EnjoyingTheSun
frontalman wrote: ↑Fri 12 Jun 2020 10:33 am
So all actors are hypocrites like all blacks are looters?
Re actors all I will say is that I'll bet my left nut that Daniel Radcliffe or Emma Watson wouldn't have been slagging off JK Rowling for pointing out that people who menstruate are better known as women if all the Harry Potter books hadn't already been filmed!
Its like with Weinstein, who'd have thought there was a casting coach in Hollywood and slobs like him took advantage of pretty ambitious girls? Wow that's news.
I'm not saying all blacks are looters, I feel sorry for them because at the end of this it will be them having to get 2 buses to the shops not the 'what march is it this week' white liberals, Marxist anarchists, opportunist shoppers or criminals who want to stop the police coming into where they do business.
OK my turn, do you think the biggest danger to the life of a young black boy is the police or other black boys?
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 11:00 am
by EnjoyingTheSun
frontalman wrote: ↑Fri 12 Jun 2020 10:33 am
So all actors are hypocrites
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists ... hey-945888
Maybe at only a few million per film and the fact that property prices in Canada and Africa are no doubt so much higher than Beverly Hills they couldn't afford it and decided to carry on the fight on home soil?
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 2:39 pm
by kerry 6138
ETS "The tragic results were inevitable.
Obviously you can Monday morning the life out of it but unless you were in the moment I can't see as you can judge"
Unless your sat at home watching Brian Clough commentary, then you can give full vent to your prejudices.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 4:03 pm
by EnjoyingTheSun
kerry 6138 wrote: ↑Fri 12 Jun 2020 2:39 pm
ETS "
The tragic results were inevitable.
Obviously you can Monday morning the life out of it but unless you were in the moment I can't see as you can judge"
Unless your sat at home watching Brian Clough commentary, then you can give full vent to your prejudices.
Personally I'd light a candle for David Dorn before George Floyd but that said Floyd shouldn't have been killed.
The fact he was and the ludicrous statistics that have been produced have yet to convince me though that there are white supremacist police targeting and murdering black people.
100 police officers were killed last year.
In 375 million encounters with civilians the police killed 1004 people last year. 235 of these were black. 226 of the black fatalities were armed. That leaves 9 people of those that were unarmed, mistakes might have been made or maybe a nervous policeman shot too early. I doubt all were shot by white cops and I doubt all the vistims had clean police records. Start to factor these events in and we will not have enough innocent black people killed by white police to fill one hand. 5 is still too many but we aren't talking Contra death squads here no matter how much these Waitrose communists fantasise.
Many will point to the fact that 235 out of 1000 is more than the 13% of the population that black people make up but black people commit 2.5 times the crime that white people carry out pro rata. In some areas the number is ten times.
If we remove those who have enough of a record for violent crime as to make the police extremely twitchy when interacting with them and you don't wave a gun or a knife around or resist arrest in a way that might make the police think you might be reaching for a gun or a knife, as your record shows you have a tendency to do, then the odds on you being shot are minuscule no matter what colour you are.
I know the youngsters are jealous that they have missed out on some great marches and protests in the past but a Mark Duggan isn't a Rosa Parks.
A Mark Duggan sells hard drugs to black kids or shoots them when they upset him. Whatever the ins and outs of Duggan's death more black kids are alive today because Duggan isn't. Those black lives matter to me more than a Mark Duggan
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 4:33 pm
by Hector
And the connection of this post with North Cyprus is.....?
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 6:30 pm
by sophie
The person who started this thread is dippersgirl, if she thinks it has wandered far too far off course, then I'm sure she'll let us know!!
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 9:23 pm
by Keithcaley
Hector wrote: ↑Fri 12 Jun 2020 4:33 pm
And the connection of this POST with North Cyprus is.....?
Do you mean this THREAD?
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 9:45 pm
by frontalman
EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑Fri 12 Jun 2020 10:51 am
frontalman wrote: ↑Fri 12 Jun 2020 10:33 am
So all actors are hypocrites like all blacks are looters?
Re actors all I will say is that I'll bet my left nut that Daniel Radcliffe or Emma Watson wouldn't have been slagging off JK Rowling for pointing out that people who menstruate are better known as women if all the Harry Potter books hadn't already been filmed!
Its like with Weinstein, who'd have thought there was a casting coach in Hollywood and slobs like him took advantage of pretty ambitious girls? Wow that's news.
I'm not saying all blacks are looters, I feel sorry for them because at the end of this it will be them having to get 2 buses to the shops not the 'what march is it this week' white liberals, Marxist anarchists, opportunist shoppers or criminals who want to stop the police coming into where they do business.
OK my turn, do you think the biggest danger to the life of a young black boy is the police or other black boys?
More people in Africa are killed by hippopotami (plural of hippopotamus) but that doesn't excuse all the alligators. I don't get your point.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Fri 12 Jun 2020 10:19 pm
by EnjoyingTheSun
frontalman wrote: ↑Fri 12 Jun 2020 9:45 pm
More people in Africa are killed by hippopotami (plural of hippopotamus) but that doesn't excuse all the alligators. I don't get your point.
All the alligators who kill people or all the alligators?
It’s a very simple question, black lives matter that is what this is all about. It’s a big campaign to ultimately ensure more black people don’t die unnecessarily?
So what is the biggest danger to black lives? What should we be concentrating on? Rogue white police officers who kill possibly half a dozen unarmed black people a year. Black on black murders number thousands a year.
So if the police are defunded or forced out of patrolling crime hot spots, which will certainly suit criminals, is that going to save black lives?
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Sat 13 Jun 2020 6:15 am
by frontalman
Why can't "we" concentrate on both??? You seem to see things very much in black or white, with very little grey. The therapist in me is concerned that you may be driven by some kind of emotional baggage from your deep past - maybe a good cry might help?
It's not hard to read between the lines with what you say. You manage to stay within bounds, having been caught out once for being offensive but I think I understand you. I feel my viewpoint will always differ from yours given what you have posted so far. If you wish to continue back and forth, you can do it on your own. I will be doing what your forum name describes. Life is too short...................
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Sat 13 Jun 2020 6:42 am
by Medjoul1
Rebook man?
I am not going to get involved with the pages and pages of copying/pasting, quote/unquote that you resort to whilst getting called out for your snide digs at everything from 'Guardian readers, people of colour, Labour politicians, Liverpudlians etc. At least you admit to being bias, you are Alf Garnett.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Sat 13 Jun 2020 7:57 am
by EnjoyingTheSun
frontalman wrote: ↑Sat 13 Jun 2020 6:15 am
You manage to stay within bounds, having been caught out once for being offensive
Offensive? Foe pointing out that for a large proportion of the protestors as usual they were most worried about getting into the Nike store in time before all the good stuff was gone.
Everyone of these protests ends with buildings being robbed and burned, with the encouragement of of the BLM and Antifa people.
The big chains can probably handle the financial loss they will just close the store and sack them locals working there. The local businesses will just close and the local high street will become a ghost town so women have to catch two buses to the shops. The police will avoid the place like the plague.
Suits the criminals obviously and the white liberals can go home having sated their fantasy of being a freedom fighter. The idiots have a free pair of trainers at the cost of destroying more of their future prospects and ruining their neighbourhood.
Yes black lives matter but only to some of us.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Sat 13 Jun 2020 8:07 am
by EnjoyingTheSun
Medjoul1 wrote: ↑Sat 13 Jun 2020 6:42 am
I am not going to get involved with the pages and pages of copying/pasting, quote/unquote that you resort to whilst getting called out for your snide digs at everything from 'Guardian readers, people of colour, Labour politicians, Liverpudlians etc. At least you admit to being bias, you are Alf Garnett.
Not really I just point out when virtue signalling liberals are naive at best and hypocritical at worst.
I would have a very large bet that I know and are friends with far more people of colour than you and because of this I know that they really don’t give a toss about all this nonsense in the main. Most people just crack on with their lives for better or worse and really do not have the time for Guardian readers causes.
As for Labour, I’ve voted Labour in the past and will in the future. When they seem to have some concept of improving the working man’s life. Maybe many think the working classes are stupid that’s why they vote for Johnson and Trump. Someone said Americans are stupid for voting for Trump.
As for Liverpudlians I am sorry if I upset them as they are always the victims and nothing is ever their fault
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Sat 13 Jun 2020 8:15 am
by erol
EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑Sat 13 Jun 2020 7:57 am
Offensive? Foe pointing out that for a large proportion of the protestors as usual they were most worried about getting into the Nike store in time before all the good stuff was gone.
It is offensive because it is patently not true of these latest protests in the UK and globally. What is a 'large proportion' ? 30% ? 3% 0.3% ?
EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑Sat 13 Jun 2020 7:57 am
Everyone of these protests ends with buildings being robbed and burned, with the encouragement of of the BLM and Antifa people.
You just saying stuff does not mean it is true. Despite your claims here have been countless protest globally that have NOT ended up with buildings being robbed and burned. They do not make such good copy for a sensationalist media but that does not mean they do not exist.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Sat 13 Jun 2020 8:25 am
by Brazen
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Sat 13 Jun 2020 8:37 am
by EnjoyingTheSun
erol wrote: ↑Sat 13 Jun 2020 8:15 am
It is offensive because it is patently not true of these latest protests in the UK and globally. What is a 'large proportion' ? 30% ? 3% 0.3% ?
You just saying stuff does not mean it is true. Despite your claims here have been countless protest globally that have NOT ended up with buildings being robbed and burned. They do not make such good copy for a sensationalist media but that does not mean they do not exist.
Like the peaceful protest where only 27 police were injured?
In London all the shops they like to aim for such as Apple and Nike were boarded up to within an inch of their lives. I think book shops leave their doors open.
Plus they were in a non retail area of London and just concentrated on vandalism.
I was living near Croydon during the Mark 'Rosa' Duggan riots of 2011, just because the Guardian doesn't report riots and looting they do happen.
Today's will be pretty peaceful I think as Antifa made the brilliant tactical move of calling out the Millwall Supporters who gratefully accepted. Suddenly Antifa have a lot of diversity awareness meetings to attend.
The far right groups that idiot London mayor refers to are mainly football supporters, ex serviceman and ordinary people who frankly have had enough.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Sat 13 Jun 2020 9:09 am
by EnjoyingTheSun
frontalman wrote: ↑Sat 13 Jun 2020 6:15 am
Why can't "we" concentrate on both??? You seem to see things very much in black or white, with very little grey. The therapist in me is concerned that you may be driven by some kind of emotional baggage from your deep past - maybe a good cry might help?
It's not hard to read between the lines with what you say.
Nope had a very sound upbringing thanks.
Concentrating on both means dealing with neither in reality.
Maybe you are trying to read between the lines too much to not get my point. How am I only seeing things in black or white to point out that statistics and case studies are not pointing to police running death squads to dispatch black people? Or pointing out that if you are sincerely worried about black lives there is a more pressing problem. Yes there are some bigots in the police force. Far less than there were but still too many but they are a minuscule part of the problem.
Liberal politicians, BLM and Antifa like others living in crime ridden hovels because it gives them a victim to virtue signal about or a guaranteed vote will always procrastinate because they don't want the situation to change.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Sat 13 Jun 2020 9:54 am
by erol
So much conflating going on here. Such little clarity of thought.
Black on Black murders are a function of criminality. Black criminals predominately prey on black victims, Asian criminals on Asian victims, White criminals on white victims. The commonality is criminality not ethnicity. The ethnicity component of the statistics is a consequence of criminality.
Cases like George Floyd's are materially different. In cases like these the very entity that is supposed to stop criminality are the ones perpetrating it and the evidence that in some cases they perpetrate it based on ethnicity of the victims is real and material.
We need to address criminality and we need to address excessive police brutality generally and police brutality based on ethnicity of the victims specifically. The idea that we can only address one of these things and any attempt to address all of them can only lead to none of them being addressed is as far as I am concerned 'for the birds'. It is excuse not reason.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Sat 13 Jun 2020 12:18 pm
by Groucho
erol wrote: ↑Sat 13 Jun 2020 9:54 am
So much conflating going on here. Such little clarity of thought.
Black on Black murders are a function of criminality. Black criminals predominately prey on black victims, Asian criminals on Asian victims, White criminals on white victims. The commonality is criminality not ethnicity. The ethnicity component of the statistics is a consequence of criminality.
Cases like George Floyd's are materially different. In cases like these the very entity that is supposed to stop criminality are the ones perpetrating it and the evidence that in some cases they perpetrate it based on ethnicity of the victims is real and material.
We need to address criminality and we need to address excessive police brutality generally and police brutality based on ethnicity of the victims specifically. The idea that we can only address one of these things and any attempt to address all of them can only lead to none of them being addressed is as far as I am concerned 'for the birds'. It is excuse not reason.
You also have to take into account the killer and the victim had an ongoing feud stemming from a time when they both worked as bouncers at a club. Now I would like to think that being an ex-club bouncer with a history of violence to non-whites would bring up red flags during the police enrolment process - but it appears not.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Sat 13 Jun 2020 1:09 pm
by erol
Groucho wrote: ↑Sat 13 Jun 2020 12:18 pm
You also have to take into account the killer and the victim had an ongoing feud stemming from a time when they both worked as bouncers at a club. Now I would like to think that being an ex-club bouncer with a history of violence to non-whites would bring up red flags during the police enrolment process - but it appears not.
There has been much 'walking back' of the claims of the two of them having 'bumped heads' whilst working as security at the same club from the single individual who originally made such claims. On the other point re who is allowed to become a police officer, I agree with you. No one with a history or even physiological propensity for violence should be able to become police. This is an issue globally imo. A significant number of those who seek to become police officers do so imo for the wrong reasons and not enough is done to systematically weed such people out from the police , at recruitment and ongoing through out their time as police. It is a recurring theme that those that end up behaving like Chauvin have a long prior history of warning and red flags attached to them that were ignored.
Re: Best description of Trump - written by Nate White
Posted: Sat 13 Jun 2020 2:04 pm
by EnjoyingTheSun
erol wrote: ↑Sat 13 Jun 2020 9:54 am
we need to address excessive police brutality generally and police brutality based on ethnicity of the victims specifically. The idea that we can only address one of these things and any attempt to address all of them can only lead to none of them being addressed is as far as I am concerned 'for the birds'. It is excuse not reason.
As always there is this tendency to equate old problems with today. Yes there has been police brutality to a large scale in the past but whilst it is still there it is now very minimal. I think the police have learnt their lessons and also with everyone carry a video camera on their phone now they cant get away with stuff they used to.
I know it helps the Waitrose communists to fantasise that they are going up a brutal police force led by a Bull Conner but those days are gone.
As for police brutality based on ethnicity of victims there are 800,000 police officers in America obviously with a number that high there will be bigots in there. As for diversity it is difficult to get an accurate read as police forces in majority white areas will be majority white but if we look at say Bull Connor's police force in Birmingham Alabama 61% of the police are black. Admittedly the black population is 73% but the BLM movement doesn't seem to have as its aim to have the police reflect the demographic make up or their actions encourage that.
When you factor in relative crime rates the statistics do not show that black people are being picked on.
But I believe we both want a solution I don;t think BLM or Antifa want a solution they are having too much fun with the problem.
For the problem to be solved there needs to be unity not division. Now a problem in any movement is apathy. Most people aren't too bothered about a problem unless it effects them directly. That said most people are decent and compassionate.
Everyone knows the story of Rosa Parks but how many have heard of Claudette Colvin.
The Montgomery bus boycott had been in the works for years.
The plan was to use Ms Colvin as their test case as it were but unfortunately she fell pregnant and the worry was that she might be painted as a fallen woman and detract from the protest. They needed someone of unimpeachable character because unlike the Waitrose communists they were risking their lives. So along came Rosa Parks and history was made. I would also point out that the only reason the movement didn't run out of money was the donations from white and Jewish people.
But the cause was just, they planned it well and executed it superbly and got the man in the street on their side.
To compare this with the BLM, Antifa and fellow traveller movements who will try to make a martyr out of Mark Duggan or George Floyd and break into tears when a policeman bursts their BLM ballon as they pop along for this weeks march is pathetic tbh.