Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

We went toa local restaurant for the first time for about a year, This is not a review about the food which is always OK.

The Review and my comments are about POS machines they are using to process your credit card transaction.

They are using DCC (DYNAMIC CURRENCY CONVERSION ) where they input Turkish Lira and the machine automatically converts it to the currency of the card, in my case Sterling.

I use a Halifax Clarity Card here all the time as there are no charges for any foreign currency and the conversion rate is always good. So I use it all month and pay it all off at the end of the month.

They input the lira amount and then handed it to me for the PIN, It showed the amount now in sterling.

I noticed it before I entered the PIN. I asked them to take the option off the POS, they said they couldn't (this is a lie).

In the end, I paid with a Turkish issued card.

When I got back home I calculated if I had taken their option it would have cost me an extra 86 lira (£10) on the bill.

Blimey, I have the same card as you and can't use (because I don't have one) a Turkish issued card.

I use my Clarity card as well and have the mantra "Always pay in the local currency".
This then means that Mastercard apply the exchange rate (which is the standard international rate at the time).
If you let the vendor do the conversion who knows what rate they will apply !
We need to head this off if we can.

Turk Bank are offering prepaid cards you dont have to have an account.
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=51826

This article from Money Saving Expert may be of interest. It covers part of our concern and some other little weezes such as the the vendor being able to change the currency AFTER pin entry https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/ ... -terminal/

There are rip offs everywhere these days! Used my Nationwide card to withdraw £440 Sterling from TEB - cost me a £22 charge which is 5%! Was considering opening an account with TEB but not anymore! Thinking to go with Turk Bank instead now as we are pensioners and everything paid into Nationwide in UK, looks like Turk Bank have the easiest and cheapest way of transferring cash from UK account to Turk Bank Sterling account on-line?

Unless you know better of course???

I have had the same problem in a couple of restaurants with my Transferwise card and have come to the conclusion that it is specifically Iş Bank machines that are the problem. I have also witnessed the waiter choose TL as the currency but the machine then reverts back to GBP and there was no way around it. I don't believe it is the restaurant pulling a fast one.

I've had same problem when buying quite expensive electrical goods. Suspect its whatever bank the store uses.

JoandJelly wrote: ↑

Wed 15 Jul 2020 6:57 am

I have had the same problem in a couple of restaurants with my Transferwise card and have come to the conclusion that it is specifically Iş Bank machines that are the problem. I have also witnessed the waiter choose TL as the currency but the machine then reverts back to GBP and there was no way around it. I don't believe it is the restaurant pulling a fast one.

There is a way around it, there is an option on the POS machine not to calculate into another currency.

OK, So when they say pounds .... we stick to our guns and say no. I'll pay in TL please ?

I have been a regular customer at Ileli supermarket for years. I pay in tl using my Uk debit card and my Uk bank converts the tl to £ at a very attractive exchange rate.

Last Saturday, I took my eye off the ball. When I returned home from my Ileli shopping I noticed I had been charged in £. The exchange rate was poor.

Today I returned to Ileli for more shopping.
At the checkout I stated I wanted to pay in tl for my shopping using my Uk card. The assistant looked flustered and the assistant who served me last Saturday overheard and looked sheepish! She ‘chipped in’ - blame Turkbank!

Today I did get my way; I paid for my shopping in tl using Uk card as usual with one of several verifone machines they have lined up! It was a Turkbankasi machine, but no problem this time!

If you use a Uk card anywhere in Cyprus in future my advice is ‘stick to your guns‘ and/or vote with your feet!

Wight wrote: ↑

Tue 14 Jul 2020 4:10 pm

This article from Money Saving Expert may be of interest. It covers part of our concern and some other little weezes such as the the vendor being able to change the currency AFTER pin entry https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/ ... -terminal/

I got caught out tonight in Şah, the amount on the card machine was in Lira, I entered my pin, handed the machine back and saw something come up, the cashier pressed a button and my bill came out showing the Lira amount. It was only when I was checking the items I noticed in very small print that I'd been charged in dollars plus 3% commission. I was furious, went back in and the cashier denied it and said it was my bank but I know she pressed something to change it to dollars. Unfortunately at the time I couldn't show the transaction on my app had come through as dollars, I fully intend complaining to the management now I have the proof, I actually want to cancel the transaction and get them to do it again
It was a TEB machine and a revolut card. Bad enough that they get you at the ATMs but I suspect that this is going to happen more frequently so beware.

I never use a card always pay cash. I take out lira from Turkbank atm with my uk card. 2000tl at a time for which my uk bank charges me around £8 so no fees for getting sterling and no running around to get it changed to tl.

Each cardholder may withdraw up to £200 in any currency per month without charge using a Revolut card but I prefer to use a card for supermarket transactions and have never had a problem before, I've checked my statement... This is not right, normally you are asked which currency you would like to pay in and I would always choose the local currency. I have contacted Şah via Facebook and had a reply from the Social media team saying they will pass my message on to the relevant department. I will post their response, if I get one.

I was told by the bank that the conversion works on XE rates at that moment of conversion, they asked if we wanted these new machines. Its seems far to expensive if this is correct.

Wines of the world - you could lose more than you gain via customer losses if you introduced automatic currency conversion without the consent of your customer

My Ileli shopping bill cost me an extra 5%. If it happens again, I will go elsewhere.

Acacia, trouble about walking with your feet is the fact that there are less and less places to walk to. More and more outlets are using the same method to claw back some of the losses. Paying in cash where you can is fast becoming the only option as far as I'm concerned from now on.

Acacia, I totally agree. I'm now waiting for the bank to call me after my complaint to Sah. As far as I'm aware when you use a debit card, it costs the retailer nothing unlike a credit card, so the only ones gaining are the banks(?)

Wotw, surely a customer should be asked which currency they wish to pay in? In the South places like M&S have been doing this for years but they always ask.

It's interesting that at the bottom of the receipt it says "I accept that I have been given a choice of currencies for payment and that this choice is final. I accept the conversion rate. The final amount and that the selected transaction currency is USD"

I certainly did not agree to any of that.

I'll try to upload the receipt later.

Yes, come_on_aylin, the customer should be asked if they will agree to currency conversion before proceeding; the retailer won’t ask, however, as they know they are deliberately disadvantaging and the answer will be NO. One could legally argue it tantamounts to deception!

If all the restaurants and supermarkets follow suit may have to revert to cash, but handling cash not ideal in this ‘Covid’ riddled world we live in. Perhaps pre payment card as recommended by Kerry 6138.

A lot of customers won’t bother to complain, to give the retailer a chance to apologise and put things right. Easy to lose a customer. Costly and time consuming to get them back and/or to attract replacements.

Hair cut, did you notice which bank the card machine was from?

I've had a chat with TEB and I await their investigation as to why I was charged in USD rather than GBP, my home currency. Which is kind of beside the point but it has them puzzled as I don't have a USD account on my Revolut card so blew their explanation out the water.
I honestly couldn't get any logical explanation, it was stated that these machines don't give you a choice despite printing the message that you've accepted a choice on the receipt. These machines are going to become more commonplace despite changing the currency without your consent - I was told this is perfectly legal (I find that hard to believe). I told the bank rep that all hell will let loose if they implement this and he acknowledged that.
So buyer beware.

I will certainly refuse to use a TEB card machine unless it gets sorted out.

One other thought is make sure the amount on the card machine is the same as the till and in the same currency (which I did), after entering your pin hold on to the machine to see if you get the option to accept the local currency (which he implied there wasn't), check your receipt and kick up a fuss if it's been changed to another currency. If everyone does this perhaps they'll think again. Otherwise, I'll go back to using cash or TRNC credit card which, I assume, is the intention.
Be careful out there.

Footnote: got another call from the bank, as suspected the machine DOES give a choice after the pin is entered... It seems that retail staff are perhaps not getting trained in using the new machines and press any old button. If this is true it makes sense, I'll certainly hold on to the machine until the first receipt is printed to check.

I didnt notice what bank it was from, the Owner of the restaraunt said they were new machines and had just had them.

My transaction was put in as TL but when handed to me for the PIN showed the amount in GBP what was going to be debited thats when I refused to put my PIN in.

Wines of The World said it was converted at XE Rates, in my case this was not true or a larger commission rate had been applied'

My bill was 414 lira, if I had paid in GBP I calculted it would have cost me an extra 86 Lira.This is a 20% markup.

I would think this is to cover all his overheads and wage bill each evening,

Come-on-Aylin
Might be worth contacting Revolut for some general advice.
According to the link above from money making expert the rules are clear, permission should be sought.
Best advice is to be vigilant, advise retailer you wish to pay in tl and tell them straight that you will not accept any currency conversion, do not enter pin without checking currency and don’t hand back equipment until transaction completed, check receipt immediately, complain right away if you have been deceived, report retailer to the bank concerned and report matter to your UK account also. Finally if retailer refuses to put matters right, avoid using them in future if at all possible. As a last resort pay by cash or pre payment card (unless this suits you anyway, of course)

Whilst I understand the difficulties businesses are going through at the moment, deception is not acceptable. We are loyal to a lot of these businesses for much of the year.

Hair cut, thanks for your reply.

I edited my last post with the latest from the bank. It sounds as though there may be machines where they show you the converted amount before you enter your pin, allowing you to refuse the transaction and ones where the conversion takes place after the pin is entered as in my case and as mentioned by Wight. It's the latter I object to.

Acacia, I've just read the link provided by Wight above which agrees with my thoughts. It says if you are charged in the wrong currency ask for the transaction to be voided and recharged in the correct currency. If they refuse contact your card issuer.

We or i never accepted the new machine because i was not familiar with this new technology,so i am still using the old machines.

Come on aylin

surely a customer should be asked !

I agree

Acacia wrote: ↑

Fri 17 Jul 2020 9:50 am

Wines of the world - you could lose more than you gain via customer losses if you introduced automatic currency conversion without the consent of your customer

My Ileli shopping bill cost me an extra 5%. If it happens again, I will go elsewhere.

I see what they have done now with the new machines, instead of the business owner getting charged 2.4 or 2.6 or 2.8% commissions for every transaction they take via credit card, now the customer is being charged if what your all writing is correct and the business owner isn't at a loss each time by 2.8% per transaction,although I've seen that some shops charge for this if your spend is not above a certain amount.

Wines of the world

I am a happy customer of yours and I have always been charged the local currency.
Thank you and thank you for deciding to reject the offer of the new machine. Smart move!

Wines Of The World wrote: ↑

Fri 17 Jul 2020 2:07 pm

I see what they have done now with the new machines, instead of the business owner getting charged 2.4 or 2.6 or 2.8% commissions for every transaction they take via credit card, now the customer is being charged if what your all writing is correct and the business owner isn't at a loss each time by 2.8% per transaction,although I've seen that some shops charge for this if your spend is not above a certain amount.

Do you get charged for debit or prepaid currency cards such as Revolut, Monzo, Starling, etc? My understanding was that you didn't.

come_on_aylin wrote: ↑

Fri 17 Jul 2020 2:52 pm

Wines Of The World wrote: ↑

Fri 17 Jul 2020 2:07 pm

I see what they have done now with the new machines, instead of the business owner getting charged 2.4 or 2.6 or 2.8% commissions for every transaction they take via credit card, now the customer is being charged if what your all writing is correct and the business owner isn't at a loss each time by 2.8% per transaction,although I've seen that some shops charge for this if your spend is not above a certain amount.

Do you get charged for debit or prepaid currency cards such as Revolut, Monzo, Starling, etc? My understanding was that you didn't.

Originally on our capital bank machine and still i think we get charged 2.8%, Im not sure now what Credit west machine is charging us, but i know my Ziraat machine is only around 0.98 %
I will ask capital what we are now charged,i complain all the time about charges and all i get is the Mediterranean shuffle , hands out each side from the body and shoulders shrugged ,I'm sure your all familiar with the Mediterranean shuffle Or is it Hustle !!

I am sure most of you are aware, but just in case, here’s some details about TRNC credit cards with my experience with Creditwest and Iktisatbank.

YOU tell them what your limit is!

They THEN tell you to deposit 115% of your required limit into a Blocked deposit account. You get the interest depending on whether you want it monthly, quarterly, etc.

You do pay an annual fee for the card, I think it’s 50-60TL, but ask.

The Government has/had intentions of giving Cash-back of 1% for card purchases, so as to get the correct income from retailers, I.e. reduced cash transactions.

When you want your Blocked deposit back, you close down your credit card account, pay the balance and the Blocked amount is transferred to your current account.

Turk Bank used to Block the amount for two years only, then return it.

One further charge is a small amount depending on your limit. A 5,000 TL limit should suit most people for their supermarket and alcohol spending each month!

Don’t forget to get your cards unblocked for use abroad/internet/ATM.

Final point, you only ever pay the amount asked, no “sorry, no change” comment, you always get a receipt (useful in case of items you want to return), you pay about 10 days after the monthly bill, so you might get 40 days of credit for transactions at the beginning of your period, no dirty notes and filthy coins, you get points for spending/flights, etc. The list of benefits goes on.

Butterflyaway for your info HSBC credit cards here always worked as normal credit cards, i.e. you did not have to deposit any money into a blocked account. When they sold to Albank they adopted the same practice. So I have an Albank credit card but no accounts with them which suits me fine.

Being asked if you want DCC is covered by an EU regulation, it is a legal requirement in the EU (the EU despite what some people might say did a lot of good things for consumers). Obviously the TRNC needs to bring themselves up to EU standards on this one.

Just found my card machine receipt from Ileli shopping trip a week ago and can confirm it was TEB bank machine that was used and not ‘blame Turkbank’ as shop assistant stated

See receipt attached - exchange rate plus3% commission hence why my shopping cost me an extra 5% as exchange rate probably not favourable.

Thought come-on-aylin would be interested in this one!

Just returned from supermarket shopping. Paid at checkout in tl using Garranti bank machine. No problems!

I dont know why people are going on about Credit/Debit Card that are issued here.

This is about Credit Debit/Cards that are issued outside of the TRNC but used here.

We all know a Credit card issued here will work OK.

And Scubaboy9 your comments about the EU are irrelevent and coming up to there standards, no thanks.

To clarify hair cut. All my postings on the subject are about unauthorised currency conversion using Uk card.

Whilst there are some off topic references and recommendations for local credit/debit/prepaid cards These recommendations might prove helpful should the problem of DCC escalate.

The reference to EU regulations is relevant as banking regulations worldwide often feed into EU regulations and vice versa.

If permission to convert to another currency and charge commission was not part of the regs in TRNC why would the bank make reference to permisssion and authorisation on the receipt?

Dear Acacia,

I do understand all your postings have been relevent to the Topic I started, its just some of the others arn't.

What is all the fuss about?
We are mostly guests in a foreign country so just pay with TL in cash....SIMPLE!

eastside1 wrote: ↑

Sat 18 Jul 2020 3:00 pm

What is all the fuss about?
We are mostly guests in a foreign country so just pay with TL in cash....SIMPLE!

Cash is still King

Acacia, that is the same as my receipt.

Eastside1, my problem, in particular, is that the conversion was done without my permission despite the receipt saying that I had a choice in the matter.

I think a lot of foreigners have savings in their home country. To withdraw that money from local ATMs costs a lot in charges nowadays, I know there are some exceptions. Lots of people have discovered that using a currency card minimises these costs. For example, we can withdraw the equivalent of £200 a month or spend up to £5000 (reducing to £1000 next month) per card without incurring any charges using the Revolut card. Hence the increasing popularity of them, plus, normally, you pay the amount displayed on the till. We can also do instant transfers from our UK accounts to the card, block it, enable/disable online spending, do automatic currency transactions, use it anywhere in the world getting the best exchange rates and no charges provided you stay within the limits.
So the introduction of these machines, if used incorrectly, will negate the benefits of these cards, like the introduction of exorbitant charges at ATMs. I'm sure its connected.
But given all the benefits of the card and now that we are aware of the latest machines why would we want to use filthy lucre? (Covid)
BTW we have several local accounts and credit cards so we could use cash but choose not to.

East side, wines of the world.
Maybe some folks want to move into 21st century!

Come-on-Aylin

I didn’t give permission for Currency Conversion either. It’s not just the charge that annoys, it is the deception that annoys even more.

Why should anyone be ‘ripped off’ or deceived, regardless of creed, colour or nationality!

Anyway, just watch out for the TEB bank machines in future and always insist on paying in TL without currency conversion

come_on_aylin wrote: ↑

Thu 16 Jul 2020 8:52 pm

I got caught out tonight in Şah, the amount on the card machine was in Lira, I entered my pin, handed the machine back and saw something come up, the cashier pressed a button and my bill came out showing the Lira amount. It was only when I was checking the items I noticed in very small print that I'd been charged in dollars plus 3% commission.

It was a TEB machine and a revolut card.

Did you already have a balance of dollars on the Revolut card?

come_on_aylin wrote: ↑

Sat 18 Jul 2020 3:30 pm

For example, we can withdraw the equivalent of £200 a month or spend up to £5000 (reducing to £1000 next month) per card without incurring any charges using the Revolut card.

That's a big change from £5000 to £1000 which I completely missed. Looking at the website it appears to be 1000 euros which is a touch over £900?

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑

Sat 18 Jul 2020 7:49 pm

Did you already have a balance of dollars on the Revolut card?

No. It turned out that the cashier selected the currency (randomly?) so not only did TEB convert from TL to USD, revolut then converted it from USD to GBP.