Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

I just wanted to congratulate the Lapta Belediyesi & the EU for the splendid new walk way between Lapta & Sardunya Bay
The workmanship that has gone into this walkway it is excellent
But one point I feel I must make is the fact that there are signs restricting certain activities,one of which is dogs, but I was really amazed and saddened to see the amount of dog owner flaunting this rule, I know that pathway is for all to enjoy, but please bare in mind that there are and will be young children running along this path and I for one would not like my grandchild to be victim of dog faeces
I am sure the majority of dog owners will collect this matter and dispose of it in a responsibly, but for the ones that might not, this could spoil a beautiful walk for others, so please spare a thought for the non dog owners

Can I ask did you start the walk at Sardunya Bay as when we went to do the walk the road down to Sardunya was so bad we turned back, the road was full of pot holes and water and we had a hire car so was afraid to damage it, we followed the sign post from the main road which said Sardunya Bay is this the only way down to the walk or can you go to JK's where I believe it finishes.

We have done the walk from both ends, recently the bottom part of the road after the villas has been resurfaced, so not so bad, we started from the other end also by driving past JK's, then past the Olive Press shortly after there is a EU sign where you turn right. Although not the start you can walk to the start and double back. At the start there is still a lot of building work going on, so in current conditions not advisable.

Thanks for the info we are not there until November so it will probably be well on it's way then.

As Laptatony pointed out just past the olive press by theEU sign this will take you to the mid point, I personally went from

Woodspekie I started form the bay as my car can fortunately cope with the pot holes, as this was my first time I started from where I was informed was the easiest part to find
Yes there is development and you have to feel sorry for the 3 villa's that have lierly had there garden cut by the walkway, but its still a wonderful pleasant walk for people of all ages

Well . . . I feel obliged to agree with the sentiment of the original post in respect of both congratulations to the local authority for providing such a wonderful amenity for all to enjoy and his sentiments
towards dogs and their owners.
Obviously dog owners need somewhere to walk their pets BUT certainly NOT on this walkway please! My wife and I discovered the walk only a couple of days ago and were discussing, as we
walked, the information signs clearly indicating that dogs were not welcome; well this will do nothing to dissuade strays but surely any intelligent dog owner will not only understand the reasoning
but will willingly adhere to the rules. . . ? Well actually, No! because as we made our way down the path enjoying the views and the exercise what do we see walking in the opposite direction?
two elderly English [British] ladies, each with a small canine in tow blatantly disobeying the rules, followed closely by a couple with a dog and further down the path a family with another dog.
I wanted to stop them and remonstrate, however was stopped by my better half, wishing not to cause any upset. . . . grrrrrrrrrr.
PS We are dog lovers and ex dog owners ourselves.

Loved the views along the walkway seaside but really feel for the owners of that villa whose pool is now at eye level directly next to the path.
Dogs shouldn't be a problem if they are on leads and owners are responsible and poop scoop when necessary.
More worrying to me were the group of cyclists who whizzed past at speed with no thought that young children move about quickly from side to side when something catches their interest regardless of fast moving traffic, in this instance cycles!

There is nothing "intelligent" about dog owners as is demonstrated by the horrendous barking at all times of the day and night and dog excrement all over the place. It's been a growing problem for the last twenty years and needs sorting but I'm sure the TRNC authorities have more pressing demands on their finances. Continually barking dogs as can be heard in Karaman, Ozenkoy and Bellapais in particular should be confiscated and put down and morons who do not pick up after their animals should be heavily fined and again the dogs confiscated!!

I think that's a massive generalisation about dog owners, Sandman.
If dogs roam, are hungry, cold, abused or lonely being left tied up outside, they will bark.
We all know that the TC culture in respect to dogs is very different to the British attitude to domestic animals, here in the TRNC.
But as a dog owner I consider myself to be both intelligent and responsible. I do clean up after my dogs as I did when I was in the UK. I guess maybe the ladies with their dogs on leads might also fall into this category
As to the original post the walkway is a great facility and should be enjoyed by all. Yes there are signs but as there are laws covering crash helmets, seat belts, not driving under the influence of alcohol and not driving when using a mobile phone, that are clearly not adhered to, then I fear that a notice on the walkway has little chance of being adhered to either.
IMHO though the group of cyclist riding at speed were a very real danger to other walkers!

There is no excuse or discussion ! I have been on the walk a few times it can be accessed by a road on the right just after JK's and the bowling green through a new development which must be very annoying to the people who might buy the apartments. Or next to Sardunya to walk towards Lapta.
But I am disgusted with the usual low lives (ex pats) who insist on taking their mutts on the walk to run loosely pooing wherever they feel like, without taking poo bags to clear it up ! there are signs everywhere to discourage this but ex pats being ex pats, totally ignore these as they are far above this request or laws expressed which are not policed anywhere. To those responsible I am ashamed and disgusted with you ! Those who continually to snub the request should take a step back and consider those who wish to enjoy the walk without watching where they walk , Sal

Responsible owners will clear up and Sandman's gripe was really aimed at barking dogs in Karaman, Ozankoy and Bellapais.
Myself I wouldn't take my dogs along the Lapta walkway as it would mean driving them there which defeats the point of dog walking. However at least ex pats do, generally, exercise their animals and the dog barking that Sandman urges extermination for is usually a result of some, not all, locals who keep animals tied up with no exercise.
As to the walkway, irresponsible cyclists are as much a danger as dog excrement and who can point the finger to ex pats for that when there are packs of stray dogs around the Lapta walkway.
Education in several areas about consideration for others, and the responsibility of being a dog owner would be more beneficial than stating that ex pats are to blame or that barking dogs should be euthanised.

Panchocat wrote:I think that's a massive generalisation about dog owners, Sandman.
If dogs roam, are hungry, cold, abused or lonely being left tied up outside, they will bark.
We all know that the TC culture in respect to dogs is very different to the British attitude to domestic animals, here in the TRNC.
But as a dog owner I consider myself to be both intelligent and responsible. I do clean up after my dogs as I did when I was in the UK. I guess maybe the ladies with their dogs on leads might also fall into this category
As to the original post the walkway is a great facility and should be enjoyed by all. Yes there are signs but as there are laws covering crash helmets, seat belts, not driving under the influence of alcohol and not driving when using a mobile phone, that are clearly not adhered to, then I fear that a notice on the walkway has little chance of being adhered to either.
IMHO though the group of cyclist riding at speed were a very real danger to other walkers!

Just interested,when you pick up your dogs do do where do you put it? Are there special bins or something?

I wish!
No carry it home in scented nappy liners and put it in our dustbin along with the parcels from the daily garden poop scooping.
Logging off now as I am pooped;-) so off to bed!!

i think this walk should be open to dogs and their owners. The emphasis should be put on clearing up after them, ie don't clear you get fined simple.

As for "nothing intelligent about dog owners" this is without doubt one of the most stupid things I have ever heard, ignorant in the extreme. I have a dog, he is not allowed to bark at all times of the night, my two neighbours also own dogs and the story is the same. We have a community dog if he barks during the night we calm him and investigate. There are some, who own dogs who allow them to bark all night but that does not warrant the above statement, I suggest you try engaging your brain before making ridiculous statements like that.

Hear, hear Jonnie!

Dogs shouldn't be a problem if they are on leads and owners are responsible and poop scoop when necessary.

The signs quite clearly make DOG walking a No No so why not just take your dog[s] elsewhere please.

This is a PEOPLE walk NOT a DOG walk - come on folks - just bide by the very sensible RULES - just this once eh?

Perhaps if you had had a dog poisoned on a hill walk - on a lead and under control - as we did last year, you would understand that responsible owners want somewhere safe to walk their dog, poop scoop at the ready, and cannot understand why both people and dogs cannot walk together in harmony.

We have been on the walk a few times although the pavements are clean the areas off the paths have dog poo on. Seen quite few people walking their dogs but did not see signs of the owners carrying poopa scupers or bags

Dandelite, I am not advocating the breaking of rules just questioning them. What harm would it be for people to walk dogs down there, on leads and clear up after them? This is the norm in most of the rest of Europe. You can walk your dog up Oxford street if you want. The only restrictions normally apply to areas where recreation occurs, generally where children may be involved such as recreation grounds and beaches. I recently witnessed dogs in central London and in Bushey park what is the problem with either of these things?

Laptatony, I have a capsule I carry, not much bigger than a 35mm film roll canister, it holds a roll of 50 poo bags, I would not really expect anyone to notice it.

At this time of year what harm would it cause to allow people to walk there dogs down there?

Aristabroad, Agreed.

Many dog owners are responsible people but here we have the usual indignant response from the "dogdeaf" fraternity who will go to any lengths to pretend that they do not cause considerable problems to the non dog owning majority both in Cyprus and elsewhere. In the 60s and 70s there were no dog problems in Cyprus!! These were introduced by the people who are now making excuses for the problems they are causing.Ask any visitor to the island. And stop blaming the locals as usual !!!

Sandman I can only speak for myself and my community. Here the expats care for their animals, they are wormed they have tick and flea treatments, parasite collars and annual vaccinations as does the community dog here. The "locals" dogs are tied up or roam free have none of the above treatments. They defecate all over the place and the children play outdoors.

Yes ask visitors to the island where the dog problem lies,the answer wil be it lies with strays, feral dogs and dogs tied up barking all night. This is a result of unwanted dogs, uncontrolled breeding, the desire of some to own dogs they cannot be bothered with.

I do not blame the locals, I struggle to understand why anyone wants a dog they tie up on a 2 meter long chain for days on end though.

How do I find the Lapta end of this walkway?

Both ends are in Lapta, one is at Sardunya the other is in the region of Gallups cove if I remember correctly from my days walking my dog down there. (Pre ridiculous ruling that is)

This thread and several others recently has only confirmed our decision taken,very reluctanty in 2004,not to relocate to the TRNC.
At that time we were planning to bring five[yes 5]Golden Retrievers with us.
The regular.and totally unacceptable incidents of poisoning,plus an increasing awareness of the cultural differences in the attitude to, and treatment of dogs gave us many a sleepless night.
It now seems that it is not just amongst the locals that this anti-dog/dog owners attitude exists-but the ex-pat community.judging by recent posts,are just as anti.
Very sad!!!

badger,
As always it is only a minority with these strong anti dog views, a bit like the anti smoking brigade. There are dozens ofplaces where you will regularly see people such as yourself happily walking there dogs without hinderance.

Many of us who have posted on the subject of the walkway see no objection to walking dogs there but we did raise a few laughs with the way the new signs were erected and there location. This is an ideal location, especially when it is completed to take that "sunday afternoon stroll" with the dog and the kids, grab an ice cream and admire the views.

As for the amount of dog poo around that someone has mentioned, did you not notice the number of "stray" dogs wandering around the area and that it is more likely them that are making the mess.

Me, do not have dogs and do not smoke and most of the time have no objection to either. Chill out people and enjoy this marvelous new facility.

Probably the only time I would use it to be honest (if I was allowed dogs) would be on a Sunday in the shooting season when a stroll in the mountains requires a Kevlar jacket!

I still do not see what harm dogs would do on the walkway with responsible owners of course, I would also be happy to see cyclists, especially children using it as I do not consider the roads that safe. The whole thing comes down to responsibility and consideration for others and as with other areas sometime simple "walkers" are guilty of leaving plenty of rubbish behind.

Jonnie wrote:Both ends are in Lapta, one is at Sardunya the other is in the region of Gallups cove if I remember correctly from my days walking my dog down there. (Pre ridiculous ruling that is)

OK, I'm none the wiser as I don't know where Gallups Cove is.
Which end is "closest" to Alsancak and how do I get to it?

honestly I dont see any problem with being able to walk your dog on a lead along the Lapta walkway !a pooper scoop should be at hand for accidents of course it would be nice to have poo bins as well but thats probably a step too far for a country that dumps everything and the kitchen sink on the road side and any where of beauty ! there arent many places that responsable dog owners can walk their dogs without the fear of them being poisoned or savaged by locals dogs running free !

trnc vaughan, look on the thread titled directions for walk. I am not typing again.
http://www.kibkom.com/forum/en/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5936

I think there are many of you out there who are muddying the waters somewhat regarding
the new Lapta Walkway.

Nobody is disputing that some dog owners may be responsible and collect up their dog mess
and some will be irresponsible and therefore will not do so. Remember sometimes your "best friend"
will produce rather messy wet poop, will you be scrubbing that up too?

Similarly the point raised regarding the riding of bicyles; there may be those who would ride
responsibly BUT there will be those who don't.

Should we also take our horse down and ride along the path?

The point is simply this; the sign clearly indicates NO DOGS. Whether or not you agree with
this, the fact is that the "authority" has decided on a balance of probabilities, banning dogs
will make the walk more "people" friendly - and there the discussion should end!.

Let us keep this wonderful new amenity for our pleasure and that of our children and grandchildren please?
and keep the animals and bicycles away!

cyprusishome wrote:trnc vaughan, look on the thread titled directions for walk. I am not typing again.
http://www.kibkom.com/forum/en/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5936

OK so what you are saying is there is ONLY one access point to a pathway which has 2 ends, and that access point is not at one end but somewhere in the middle?

well I have no children or grandchildren here but i do have a beautiful quiet gentle dog that i rescued and would like to walk along the walk way ...Authority , laws and TRNC ..some how they dont go together ! perhaps Lapta could employ some poo cleaneruppers ....2 cars (uk plates) !6 workmen their cousins and uncle Tom Cobly and all ...13 months pay just think of the possibilities to help the economy ,...

I think you have caused quite a stir dandelite on the banning of dogs on the new walkway.Never mind what people say You have my full backing on this matter .there are plenty of sites and grass areas they can take there dogs they just have to have abit of consideration for others,especially children who can pick up all sorts of illnesses stepping in dog mess ,and one other thing the vlaw is the law even in north cypruss .

Ithink you have caused quite a stir dandelite on this walkway topic .i for one will give you my full backing ,as many times ive gone for a walk and stood in dog poo.there are plenty of places they can take there dogs grass areas, parks, beaches but no they choose to go there, if people dont like what you said tough the law is the law even in north cypruss keep up the good work you go girl ,

lindasnewhome wrote:Ithink you have caused quite a stir dandelite on this walkway topic .i for one will give you my full backing ,as many times ive gone for a walk and stood in dog poo.there are plenty of places they can take there dogs grass areas, parks, beaches but no they choose to go there, if people dont like what you said tough the law is the law even in north cypruss keep up the good work you go girl ,

I SECOND THAT

So this Cliffside walk has been built for the sole benefit of a few Brits who want to take their (usually ill behaved and screaming*) Grandchildren there on a couple of visits a year? Personally I prefer to see all sort of people (with or without dogs and bikes etc.) enjoying various activities when I go for a walk. I think I will give it a miss, beautiful though it may be.

However, I havent actually seen it, as it is a bit far away anyway, and I would be glad if someone could tell me who actually does use it, and (excluding dog walkers and cyclists) how many? And are they all expats or do locals use it. Also is there any way people who dont fit the limited norm of the nanny society afficiodos can access the area, or are they now excluded totally from part of the Island.

Matter of fact to correct some of the errors in posts above:

1. There are distressingly few places where people can now safely walk dogs. They have all been sacrificied to the great god development and burried under swimming pools. And btw dogs arent allowed on beaches. People who used to be able to walk dogs near their homes, have to drive them many miles to find somewhere safe and conjenial.

2. Ditto cyclists. A healthy and environmentally friendly activity. The roads are no longer safe and there are no cycle paths

3. There were lots of dogs here in the 60s , particularly strays. Just fewer moaners who wouldnt accept the country for what it was, and anyway they had other things on their minds.

* My apologies (and congratulations) to the exceptions with well behaved and unspoilt grandchildren who dont make more of a nuisance of themselves than the average well trained dog

RR
We have seen as many Cypriot families as foreigners on the walk, with and without dogs.

I believe that when the walkway is finished it will really be a feature to enhance the coastline between Lapta and Karsiyaka. Unfortunatley the second phase is going to take a lot more cash than the first so it will be interesting to see how soon it is finished. At present it is not used to its maximum because of the places of access.

Well done Lapta Belediye for this initiative.

'Thanks CiH. As I say I havent seen this, and am unlikely to, so I havent previously taken much notice , but I do llike to know what my money is spent on! and I am unlikely to vist this as apart from the distance , part of the enjoyment of a walk to me is my and other people's dogs enjoying themselves, and this seems very restricted - are there even facilitities for older and disabled people? And who pays for it - is it an EU funded project?

It is EU funded as it the project at Algadi Beach area where there is a conservation information centre half built and has been for the past two years we have been there to see if it was finished, it looks likely to fall down any minute now, did hear the builder had run off with the EU money don't know if there is any truth in this but was told this was the reason for it not being finished by now.

Opps sorry, I should have read the OP. I suspected as much , this is the trouble with the EU. They throw money at a project, but dont do anything to see if it is followed through or even if the money is being spent to benefit those it intended (possibly through misunderstanding, or simply lack of resources, not necessarily chicanery). I have heard complaints from people in other coutries to the same effect.
And if it is EU money , as a UK taxpayers is it not partly mine? I would still like to know if the pathway prevents those who are excluded from the path itself accessing areas they would otherwise have been able to.

RR
Nothing has been blocked off by the pathway other than a couple of very small beaches that those that may have used them will have the same problems as before climbing down the cliff which is not very safe.

Well said Rose, another thought would be to ban the smokers who discard their cigarette buts all over the place, particularly when they decide they will have a nice quiet sit down.

This should start a good conversation!!! I have my tin on in readiness

Poppy : With three dogs on a lead, a walking stick (essential for mobility reasons) and pockets stuffed with keys, biscuits, plastic bags pooper scoopers etc. chance to smoke would be fine thing!

Are there are seats for a nice quiet sit down?

Does raise another point however. I carry plastic bags on walks - not so much for what my dogs might do by accident (they are encouraged to empty themselves before being taken to public places) but to remove nasty substances that people have left and might pose a danger to them or other animals, or even those over protected children! OK if there is a bin or I am near my car so I can double wrap and I take it home - but would someone please tell me (politely) exactly how with not enough hands and pockets as it is I am supposed to carry unpleasant things. Seems to me bins are essential for such places, not just for dogs, but to prevent them becoming littered like the beaches etc.

To lighten the tone: on a visit to France we noted adjacent bins , one with a pic of a dog and a pooper scooper, the other marked paper. The guide admitted she didnt know how one trained a dog to use loo paper!

RR
As I said earlier this is a very good facility, yes there are plenty of places to sit. There is also a kiosk the use of which is not yet specified but if operated sensibly would sell cuppas and who knows some explanatory leaflets about surrounding flora and fauna. There is also a WC, not open yet.

I am glad to hear that, CiH for the sake of others and the TRNC, and also hope there are litter bins for the same reason. I do hope there will be facilities for disabled users, such as ramps and handrails. However, I am limited in the amount of walking I can do within pain, so I will not be able to use it if my small and well behaved dogs who get too little excercise as it is will not be welcome ,

what an interesting thread! I agree with many of the points, but was particularly intereste din Badger. I wish I could take my dog where I can take it in other ocuntries where dogs are regarded as part of the fmaily there are many walks along australian beaches (pathways) and in the hills, where there is NOT poison and where people take the dogs together with pushchairs, or maybe childrenon bikes (designed section for bikes, which means the family can go out together and enjoy walking and the open air. In Paris I could even take my dog through Galleries Lafayette stores.
I am very sad that here, there is virtually nowhere to go. Just baout every ruralpart, mountains, hills, etc are liable to have poison thrown down (not always, but I am not prepared to take the risk). No beaches where there are public facilities will allow dogs. Karsiyaka now because of the turtle nestings , and now the one place which would be great such as a walk where my husband could stagger on his crutches (mountain walks are out of the quesiton) and I can go with my dog, is out of bounds before we begin.
To go for a walk along Lapta on my own would seem a pointless exercise!
when I lived in Wales, I used to go for a 4 mile wlak along the road, but that wa s the heart of the country and my two cats came too. where oh where can I do that in safety here. Definitely a downside to living. But as I cannot change it, I accept it, and just don;'t go where my 'family' is not accepted. No children now, just one adorable dog!
i guess the expression 'Horses for courses' comes to mind.

The problem is usually,dog owner let's dog off lead (when he/she thinks no-one is clocking em) dog s***s,owner then pretends not to see or the dog is simpley to far away,owner pops dog back on lead,seen it loads of times!

Marion: To which I would add when I lived in the UK, I used to walk and cycle on a streamside path provided by te developer of my estate, or cross a field footpath to access and use the Thames Footpath or Windsor Great Park. All these walks were shared by families with children, dog walkers and cyclists(and in the case of he Park the occasional adventurous tourist) in perfect amnity. Large aggressive breeds were kept on leads and muzzled, and the occasionally mskittish and semi trained puppy or new rescue dog was seen being taught manners on a lead. Except in areas where there was livestock he others ran free and caused no problems The circumstances of my life were such I could no keep dogs of my own, but far from objecting I was so impressed by the enjoyment of the dogs that I was inspired to borrow underexercised dogs of a couple of friends (one elderly and one disabled) and give them a chance to stretch their legs. Th only problem I had was one of the borrowed dogs (a beautiful golden lab) jumped in the stream and emerged a chocolate brown lab and shook herself vigorously. Even them the affected passers by took it good humouredly and laughed.

Isympathise with your husband. Though not as bad, I too can no longer walk for distances or scramble on hillsides and such a facility (if it were nearer) would be a godsend , particularly as driving is also becoming a nightmare with the weight (both literally and actual) and bullying tttactics of traffic nowadays.

It seeems there are those who would deny even the comfort of a dogs company to the less fortunate as well as stray dogs better chance of a comfortable home

But I do not agree with you, Marion, that we should just put up with this. This is not a matter of being understanding of the Cypriots, whose guests we are and whose ways we should respect.
This is pressure being put by a minority of new expats who want to change a Mediterranean
Island into some kind of theme park for their own benefit, and the Euroean Union ,who seem to be ignoring their own equality standards, and whom , as UK citizens (and in my case taxpayer) we are entitled to make constructive criticism

I think there are still many out there who are muddying the waters somewhat regarding
the new Lapta Walkway.

Nobody is disputing that some dog owners may be responsible and collect up their dog mess
and some will be irresponsible and therefore will not do so. Remember sometimes even your "best friend"
will produce rather messy wet poop, will you be scrubbing that up too?

Similarly the point raised regarding the riding of bicycles; there may be those who would ride
responsibly BUT there will be those who don't.

Perhaps we should also take our horses, camels, motor cycles etc. down and ride along the path?

The point is relatively simply; the sign clearly indicates NO DOGS. Whether or not you agree with
this, the fact is that the "authority" has decided on a balance of probabilities, banning dogs
will make the walk more "people" friendly - and there the discussion should end!.

Let us keep this wonderful new amenity for our pleasure and that of our children and grandchildren please?
and keep the animals and bicycles away!

I feel rather sad that there are those who consider the "noise" of young children to be objectionable!

Enjoy the walk.

I agree with the last post from dandelite ,as regarding ill behaved & screaming children Rambling rose remember you were a child yourself, yes we were told to behave, but when kids are outdoors they become free, they want to explore, they enjoy this freedom, so yes let them scream with glee, ill mannered , sorry its a children at play, they only see FUN,then some old fogy like us gets in the way of them having this fun, we should be glad they have a place to run and enjoy life, not stuck in poverty or in slave labour