Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Posted: **Tue 16 Jul 2024 12:00 pm**

Has anyone tried to pay the 12% property tax at the Tapu for a shared title deed. Our contract was registered in 2015 and we have been trying to get our deeds from the vendor for some years. We went to see them last week and was told that the Tapu system is not update yet to pay the tax on a shared title deed, as they can no longer sell to a foreigner (the tax must be paid by 15th August). Our lawyer is not replying and conveniently on holiday when we call in. Does anyone have any knowledge to how we go forward so we don't get fined or lose our property,

Posted: **Tue 16 Jul 2024 8:21 pm**

Reason why advocate isn’t answering, is they probably don’t know either

Posted: **Tue 16 Jul 2024 9:27 pm**

We are finding the same regarding the Lawyers, just a vague answer from their front desk to say weve got 6 months from the date of the law to get our title deeds. If we could have, we would have done this years ago. Is anyone out there managing to get an interim title deed where the original vendor is not around. If so how?

Posted: **Tue 16 Jul 2024 10:22 pm**

https://www.erginellaw.com/2024-new-rul ... ners-trnc/

Posted: **Wed 17 Jul 2024 7:51 am**

We've been trying for 18 years, so if we get fined I'll have to try and work out how many days that is. The whole business is a load of codswallop. Don't panic or waste your time wandering from so called Solicitor to solicitor. They have no more idea of what's going on than we do. I've even been and had a casual chat with Notar but like all the others they are too embarrassed or proud to admit they haven't a clue either and spout a load of word salad. I recognise the web site!!!!!

Posted: **Wed 17 Jul 2024 8:02 am**

Anyone who sells property which has shared title to a non-citizen or anyone who makes a Contract of Sale in relation to a property which does not have an individual or storey easement title deed or anyone who carries out or assists in the carrying out of the sale or transfer of a property which does not have an individual deed or storey easement deed commits a criminal offence and is liable to a fine of up to 500 times the gross monthly minimum wage.
https://www.nmplegal.com/legal-updates/ ... 05.24.html
In addition, the sale and transfer of any properties which do not have individual or storey easement title deeds (known as ‘Kat İrtifak Koçanı’ in Turkish) is no longer possible. Contracts of Sale for any such properties would be considered void.

Posted: **Wed 17 Jul 2024 8:09 am**

To add to the mix, solicitors have complained regarding this whole shennannigans. Rumour, and I stress that it is only rumour, that something will change come November. This is of no use to anyone with a target date of August.
I went to see a solicitor who said that there had been an extension of 6 months from start date in May, taking me to November, but that pertained to my situation. However, I would strongly suggest consulting your own solicitor to clarify this for your own situation.
As BB says, it really is a whole load of codswallop. They have taken a knee jerk approach, as often happens, to the current state of building (and all that that entails), but included everyone from years back, causing absolute mayhem, lots of people panicking and stressing.

Posted: **Wed 17 Jul 2024 8:59 am**

Yes, BB, similar timescale for us on our site, the ones that are left that is. At the moment we can’t see a way forward, and just hope the law makers realise very soon the adverse impact this will have on the local economy and make amendments to cover the many innocents that have been faithfully complying with local laws, paying for taxes and connected services etc and contributing to their economy for decades. I mean, what’s the point in handing over huge sums of money for an interim deed if it all becomes automatically invalid a short time later, which it will for a site like ours. Can individuals even take an interim deed without the constructor/vendor lodging a site plan? So many questions with no answers currently. I’m interested to hear others experiences and especially if anyone comes out the other side, how they did it? As John Cleese once said it’s not the despair that gets you, it’s the hope.

Posted: **Wed 17 Jul 2024 9:18 am**

I was as becoming as stressed out as everyone else, and was feeling a bit sad for myself, having no one to sit and discuss the situation with. I then had a serious talk to myself and thought, if I have to stay here until I pop my clogs then so be it. I have absolutely no control over this or future Governments, who are all as crooked as each other. Our family, of course, would love us to back to UK, but having read and listened to what is happening here, they have had to learn to accept the inevitable. I spoke to someone the other day who is concerned because she wants to leave property and money to her family. Pheweeee. My lot say, if and when the time comes and I chose to return, lock the door after you Mother and chuck the keys somewhere in the Bosphorus. They don't want or need this house, nice as it might be.

Posted: **Wed 17 Jul 2024 10:08 am**

Sorry that you were so stressed BB. I know that I was too, but am ok now after speaking to solicitor.
It's easy to say don't stress or panic, not so hard to achieve if you are in this predicament and having the Sword of Damocles over your head.
I'll PM you later on if that's ok. Am a tad busy at the moment.

Posted: **Wed 17 Jul 2024 10:38 am**

BJB, hey if your rich family don't want the place when you roll over, you could always leave it to me - lol. Problem is I will probably kick the bucket before you anyway so the keys will still end up in the Bosphorus! Only in fun this and we both do hope it all turns out for the best for you - but what a ride it is!! We now start to feel a bit lucky that we never bought so have nothing to leave to family that also don't want it either - lol. Now we just sit and wait for the new "High Earners" residency exemption to kick in - or not - to see if we can get to stay, the game goes on!!!

Posted: **Wed 17 Jul 2024 10:51 am**

Will all the estate agents who are currently attempting to sell hundreds of properties that don,t have a full kocan be fined ?

Posted: **Wed 17 Jul 2024 11:05 am**

13roman58 wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jul 2024 10:51 am
Will all the estate agents who are currently attempting to sell hundreds of properties that don,t have a full kocan be fined ?

I couldn't give a damn about estate agents/builders/contractors, they get all that they deserve. Only have concerns for myself and others who have been here a long time/before this law passed and are adversely affected.

Posted: **Wed 17 Jul 2024 11:09 am**

Waddo, rich they certainly are not, the point being it just isn't worth the hassle inheriting anything here. Who wants to have to keep worrying whether their 90 days are up, Is the pool man doing his job correctly, is the gardener keeping the place looking decent, does the outside need its four year overhaul If you have a tenant, worry about paying taxes and who the hell wants to waste good money actually choosing to live here permanently, heaven only knows. Back in the day, these are questions I had no idea I would be asking myself. It was suggested to me yesterday, how to get round the problem if selling to locals. I personally couldn't care a monkeys about the Estate Agents etc and the non full kocan fines (of course they won't!!) but I would be a bit concerned if I was Black Listed and couldn't get out of Ercan

Posted: **Wed 17 Jul 2024 12:48 pm**

You could always fly out of the RoC? If you sold for as much as you can get would you have enough to start again in the UK, that is really the only question you need to answer then. Being Blacklisted at Ercan should not worry you as you would not want to come back anyway?

Posted: **Thu 18 Jul 2024 7:11 pm**

Interesting point made by benjaminbutton as to who would want to inherit property in NC. I've had this discussion recently and, likewise, I wonder if I would or will want to lumber my children by leaving them my NC property with all the bureaucracy and legal hassle, plus the costs they would encounter. I worry that they could easily be 'had over'.

Posted: **Fri 19 Jul 2024 6:17 am**

I've been informed by two different lawyers that because I don't have any Kocan only sales contract I cannot bequeath the house that I bought and and for. In the eyes of the law I only have 'Contractual Ownership' of it.
The best bit is that the builders can bequeath their part of the sales contract. Good here isn't it?

Posted: **Sat 20 Jul 2024 4:31 am**

I find that one hard to believe. Did the lawyers offer to help you out no doubt at great expense. Did we not learn anything from the Orams case?
A contract is a contract and if it is all legally up to date with signatures and stamps etc I would challenge it again. The big problem here is finding the GOOD honest Lawyer.
All the very best of luck.

Posted: **Sat 20 Jul 2024 6:33 am**

Tanky, that's the mistake we make a contract is a contract except perhaps in the TRNC, amendment to the property law retrospective?
It is a contract of sale not ownership ie. one has contractual ownership of the property.
Show me an honest lawyer have they all developed a duty of care in the intervening 21 years?

Posted: **Sat 20 Jul 2024 8:15 am**

Ohhhhh the magic Words Duty of Care, not something that exists here. We signed our Contract to purchase our property on 1st December 2004. Went back to UK two days later. Two years later there was MAYHEM on the island as purchasers were not aware their contracts should have been registered within 28 days of signing. Hundreds of people were queuing up to have paperwork copied etc, etc. We finally after hours and hours of waiting in corridors got ours registered and tax paid. I went back to our then Solicitor (who has pictures taken many many years earlier wearing Barristers garb) , stood in the office and let both barrels fly. There was the solicitor sitting with mouth open, me standing and bending over desk, shouting as to what I thought of the certificates on the walls and Barristers picture. Secretary bursts in to see if everything was OK, I told her to leave and shut the door behind her. The solicitor finally stood up, Ordered me out of Office, shouting "I didn't register your contract because you didn't ask me to" THAT WAS WHEN I HAD A SHARP LESSON AS TO LAWYERS (?) HERE HAVING NO CLUE AS TO WHAT DUTY OF CARE TO CLIENTS means. We are still suffering all these years later because of the non registering of the contract within 28 days.

Posted: **Sun 21 Jul 2024 5:54 am**

Surely if a contract id cancelled the sellers have to refund the purchase money ...or it's just legalised theft ..

The properties have been stolen once already can they really sell them again and steal them back ...it doesn't put the trnc in a good light ..

Posted: **Sun 21 Jul 2024 7:49 am**

I am sick with worry over this.
Bob and I purchased in 2012 and was recommended to use a Law Firm whose main man is a barrister and is known for taking on big cases.We paid him to act for us on everything to do with the purchase. A few years on we had heard nothing from him. Bob contacted him again and again and every time there was some excuse why we had not been given our permission to purchase.
He then blocked us.
Bob then became ill and my main purpose was to care for him as best I could out here.
In 2021 a sad decision had to be made by both families that Bob needed specialist care back in the UK. His care was going to be £1400.00p per week.I contacted a law consultancy firm who I had used for mine and Bob's wills here to ask for advice on both the car and the property which were in joint names.
The car they got me Bob's Power of Attorney but for the property they advised and did put in a new request for permission to purchase in my name only which they were paid to do. I have the slip of paper with the file number on it which strangely is the same as the first one.
Again never heard anything for some time and when I contacted them they said they had done the job they had been paid to do and basically were very abrupt and did not want to know or help. I don;t know if it has been granted.
I am sorry if this is a long post but the upshot of it all is I do not have the funds to pay the 12%. I wish I did.
What can I do?
To make matter worse in my ignorance as Bob dealt with monies/legals I had heard non parcelization being talked about but did not realize this meant it was shared title deeds.
I had been thinking selling the property was my only way out.
if anyone can advise me where I can go for help/advice and I apologize as I would not normally post about such personal details but I am desperate,
You can PM me.
Thank you.
BBB's other half.

Posted: **Sun 21 Jul 2024 8:42 am**

Hi Medjoul. I hear what you say about the contracts. However we have had to use our ''sales contract'' for many things over here. Residency for the last 20 years, proof of ID, acceptance for when we had the extension built etc etc. The one common answer we were always given was ''that is OK this is proof YOU own the house. If you sell something the purchaser becomes the new owner. That applies here in Cyprus as well. Two house by me have recently sold, they had sales contract. No problems were encountered at all. Both the builder and most certainly, the Lawyer acted in their favour, and both were very professional to make the sales go through very quickly and with no hic ups. I do agree with you some Lawyers should not be acting without due diligence and duty of care. We had them in the early days. One lives and learns.

BBB I am so sorry to hear your story. It is just a shame we are prevented from naming and shaming as I am sure we would see the same names time after time. If you have your PTP number you should be able to find out if your PTP was grated and if not why not. I have always found the PTP office in Lefkosia very helpful. Are you a member of the BRS? If so give them a call. Good luck

Posted: **Sun 21 Jul 2024 9:15 am**

bigbadbob wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jul 2024 7:49 am
I am sick with worry over this.
Bob and I purchased in 2012 and was recommended to use a Law Firm whose main man is a barrister and is known for taking on big cases.We paid him to act for us on everything to do with the purchase. A few years on we had heard nothing from him. Bob contacted him again and again and every time there was some excuse why we had not been given our permission to purchase.
He then blocked us.
Bob then became ill and my main purpose was to care for him as best I could out here.
In 2021 a sad decision had to be made by both families that Bob needed specialist care back in the UK. His care was going to be £1400.00p per week.I contacted a law consultancy firm who I had used for mine and Bob's wills here to ask for advice on both the car and the property which were in joint names.
The car they got me Bob's Power of Attorney but for the property they advised and did put in a new request for permission to purchase in my name only which they were paid to do. I have the slip of paper with the file number on it which strangely is the same as the first one.
Again never heard anything for some time and when I contacted them they said they had done the job they had been paid to do and basically were very abrupt and did not want to know or help. I don;t know if it has been granted.
I am sorry if this is a long post but the upshot of it all is I do not have the funds to pay the 12%. I wish I did.
What can I do?
To make matter worse in my ignorance as Bob dealt with monies/legals I had heard non parcelization being talked about but did not realize this meant it was shared title deeds.
I had been thinking selling the property was my only way out.
if anyone can advise me where I can go for help/advice and I apologize as I would not normally post about such personal details but I am desperate,
You can PM me.
Thank you.
BBB's other half.

We have joined the Foreign Residents group (50TL per year) and have received good advice and help from them. They meet at Sultan's restaurant in Çatalköy every Wednesday between 2pm and 4pm.

Posted: **Mon 22 Jul 2024 10:04 am**

BBB's other half. just sent pm

Posted: **Mon 22 Jul 2024 11:16 am**

Thank you for that Wanderer.
Have checked on PM's here on this site and not got!
I m not that clever with the internet. Old brain!
How can we be in touch.
BBB's other half.

Posted: **Mon 22 Jul 2024 11:42 am**

Message 23
Hi Tanky, yes I used my contract of sale for residency this month as usual but it doesn't alter that legally you havecontractual ownership. The other signatories on my contract are the builders of course.
Over the years we must have had at least four buyers for the house but in every case the buyers advocate has advised against buying on contract.
I can't speculate on the cases you mentioned because I don't know the facts but I do know that in these scenarios its common to include some inducement

BBB my sincerest commiserations I wish there was something I could suggest.

Posted: **Mon 22 Jul 2024 12:29 pm**

BBB other half sent PM again it could be me on the tec

Posted: **Mon 22 Jul 2024 12:58 pm**

Wanderer still no pm.
Have emailed you.
BBB's other half.

Posted: **Mon 22 Jul 2024 1:11 pm**

BBB's other half.
check your email
W

Posted: **Tue 23 Jul 2024 9:55 am**

Hi Medjoul 1. Re your reply. There must be more to it than just the sales contract that the advocates are recommending others do not buy. Surely you were given a heads up on this more than just ''sorry advocate says not to proceed,,. Are you by the Army land for example?
I have asked again to a solicitor and same answer ''you have a sales contract the house is yours, you own it ''.
OK technically the builder does hold the Kocan but that is all he does ''hold'' it until you decide to sell etc. As I say there must be more to it than you are possibly aware of. Has the plot been parcelled?

Posted: **Thu 25 Jul 2024 6:01 am**

Hi Tanky, no we are not near any army base of have any constraints everything is above board. Ours was a new build and knowing more about the system now I don't blame potential buyers for heeding the advice of their advocates I would not buy property on contract, only with Kocan and this is before the amendments. Obviously for any sale to proceed it involves a new contract between the new buyer and the developer/builder in my view too much trust without some sort of guarantee of Kocan. Without Kocan in sole name = contractual ownership.

Posted: **Thu 25 Jul 2024 11:49 am**

My understanding is that for those that have had their PTP approved but have not paid your taxes to complete the transfer then you have until 15th August to do so. This deadline is not intended for people who have not had their PTP approved .

Posted: **Fri 26 Jul 2024 7:56 am**

hi Medjoul 1 . I guess you mean if you sell to another expat? Selling to a local or a mainlander they simply get their Kocan very soon after the Transfer has been completed. Other than that I see no reason for there being problems selling a property that has a Contract of sale.

Posted: **Sat 27 Jul 2024 7:12 am**

Tanky, some of our previous prospective buyers have been locals and will not touch a property sale 'on contract '. I think I've ex planned this enough times now.
Is it possible to sell a property on contract of sale? Yes it's theoretically possible and legal
The reality of trying to sell a property on sale contract is different
As I have explained it is my experience that prospective buyers have been advised by their advocates not to buy on contract for obvious reasons. You have offered anecdotal evidence that you have knowledge of properties being sold on contract, I am pleased for the vendors but as I have alluded it is not uncommon in these situations for some inducement to be factored into the sale. I don't know the facts so speculation is pointless.

Posted: **Sat 27 Jul 2024 4:35 pm**

Is the property tax 12% of the price paid according to the contract of sale or is it on current sales value? Has anyone managed to pay 3 or 6%, since this new law, with PTP already obtained in the past?

Posted: **Sat 27 Jul 2024 6:43 pm**

Been told it's on the current value set by Tapu, nothing to do with current sales value. Waiting to hear about mine. Been told I will have to pay 12% by solicitor.

Posted: **Sat 27 Jul 2024 7:10 pm**

Thanks for the info alphamike. Let’s see what my solicitor comes back with, and whether it’s the same as yours. I wonder if they did it on villa sales value it should be 12% of nothing, since if one is forbidden to sell the villa by the new law, and due to the circumstances of the unfinished site can’t get title, I reckon the value is a fat £0.

Posted: **Sat 27 Jul 2024 7:35 pm**

Sorry Orbit, it's an absolute disgrace that so many of us have been caught up with this, through no fault of our own. I'll leave it at that and not say what I really think.

Posted: **Mon 29 Jul 2024 1:33 pm**

I think the exact rule is that it's now the higher of sales price or tapu valuation . Historically tapu valuations have been low in my experience be interested to see what figures they are currently throwing out.

Posted: **Tue 30 Jul 2024 8:42 am**

Reyntj wrote: ↑
Mon 29 Jul 2024 1:33 pm
I think the exact rule is that it's now the higher of sales price or tapu valuation . Historically tapu valuations have been low in my experience be interested to see what figures they are currently throwing out.

Read on Facebook that a lady recently paid hers and it was based on her contract price. She bought in 2022 so maybe not much difference in value. It will be the buyers from years ago that will be most affected.

Posted: **Wed 31 Jul 2024 8:58 am**

Could anyone recommend a solicitor. I have my ptp since 2010 but the estate still isnt finished and have never and still dont have any chance of getting a kocan. Can anyone confirm i have to pay tax on the 15th august. Worried sick

Posted: **Wed 31 Jul 2024 1:41 pm**

Adrian, I’m sorry you are so badly affected by this new law. There are lots of us. Yes unfortunately the new law is telling us to pay this tax, and even if you do, the law has a timeline of I believe 6 months (?), by which you have to have obtained your full title deed. I have been told by a lawyer that the contract will be no longer valid if I don’t pay the tax, same if I don’t obtain title deed within the prescribed time. It’s an impossible situation for those of us like that have an unfinished site, the Vendor and/or Constructor as named on your Contract has done a bunk, other buyers have long since left, even if you have got all other paperwork up to date. I cannot recommend any lawyer as they do not have duty of care, at all. Sadly, you are right to be worried. We can only hope for an amendment to the law, otherwise there will be many forced to walk away. Also apparently currently their systems at the land offices cannot cope with those with shared title deed, so my lawyer has said currently we can’t pay it, even if we wanted to. It as infuriating as it is awful for innocents affected, and that’s a complete understatement.

Posted: **Wed 31 Jul 2024 3:35 pm**

Thank you orbit for addressing my concerns. I have read up to 20000 home owners are in the same predicament. Am i right in thinking we all have to pay our taxes by the 15th of August. Thats a lot of people standing in a queue at the land registry office. I for one don't know if i have enough money to pay the taxes as i have no idea how much they have valued my home. Is it on my contract sale from 2007 or is it on todays valuation. I still wont have a kocan 60 days after paying my tax so will i still be fined. I take it i will still not be able to sell my house and if i can would it only be to a Cypriot or a Turk. It is very confusing . If we all have to pay our taxes by the 15th August and we are all expecting an amendment arent the government leaving it close to the line. I know they have amended laws in the past but i ask.,have they in such a short time frame. I am still a a loss of what to do next and if i indeed don't have the money to pay the tax wiill they eventually take the house from me or perhaps not allow me to renew my residency. Its comforting to know i am not the only one. at the same time i wouldnt wish this on anybody else

Posted: **Wed 31 Jul 2024 4:03 pm**

I have been told there has been a 6 month extension from the original date, rather than the date in August.
It's ridiculous that this new law was passed, the govt went on summer recess, and thousands of us having to face this chaos and stress. The tapus can't cope either. We are all praying for a change in the law.
I've also been told the valuation is done by the Tapu, nothing to do with contract price and nothing to do with valuation done for selling property.
Sorry that I have no good news.

Posted: **Wed 31 Jul 2024 8:30 pm**

Arent people getting. confused here .isn't the 15 yn august deadline to do with if you have your PTp..then you have 4 months to pay the taxes or the ptp gets cancelled & you have to reapply . I think people are creating panic that's not actually correct.

I'm sure I read that those who can't take title because they have too many house or other reasons have 2 years to dispose of property before the contracts are cancelled . Only here I have read people talking about contracts being cancelled by August 15 th . Imo they are misinformed and it's just the PTp that lapses and you can reapply again 1 more time.

Ive been the girne tapu a few times recently and amazed at how quiet it is . Ive seen it much busier packed out before so I think people are misinformed about the reality. I did a property search had to wait about 10 minutes to order and pay and came back 5 days later waited about 30 minutes because somebody had to sign it but there was maybe 8 people outside loitering and max 10 people inside doing other things both times I went it was like this far from what I had experienced in the past when it would be really busy both Inside & outside. There woukd be little waiting imo to see someone .

Posted: **Thu 01 Aug 2024 2:30 am**

Perhaps people are getting confused over PTP deadline, which doesn't apply to me.
Agree there is a lot of misinformation being spread about. I haven't seen anything on here about contracts being cancelled with an August deadline.
I haven't been to Tapu myself, this is just info I've received from solicitor. I'm not saying there are queues, just that Tapu offices have been inundated regarding this new property tax, very possibly by solicitors perhaps for multiple clients. I do know what you mean though, have been to Famagusta Tapu office in the past and it has always been very busy with people queueing out the door, not been lately.

Posted: **Thu 01 Aug 2024 6:55 am**

I went yesterday to return my completed forms in order to get a valuation on my property then I can work out the tax. The guy asked me the original purchase price (in 2003) and wrote it on the form. He told me to come back next week for the valuation.
I was amazed the place was so quiet considering.

Posted: **Thu 01 Aug 2024 9:13 pm**

Why did he ask you the purchase price when it is on your sales contract?

Posted: **Fri 02 Aug 2024 6:57 am**

RAZR63, he didn't ask to see the contract of sale.
When you go to ask for a valuation at the Tapu they give you a couple of A5 size forms to fill in all in Turkish
Then you go next door to the tax building where you are given (in my case) four A4 forms yellow in colour and all in Turkish for Stopage tax
The person who translated and filled the forms in for me and had access to my sale contract had left that box blank. It being in Turkish I didn't realise.

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