Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Just been to Girne tax office to pay rental tax, new protocol in place.
Tax increased to 8% for TL not sure what £ rate is.
Tax paid on their estimated rent not contract rent i.e.
apartment - £700 or equivalent in TL
Villa no pool £1200 or equivalent in TL
Villa with pool £1500 or equivalent in TL
Tax back dated to start of contract ( in our case 22)
Got to be paid by end of month or penalties apply.

tax has been 8% for tl for ages ..increase?
Are you sure you got your facts right?

I know they are issuing lots of penalties for people who they deem to have been under declaring. But £700 for a 1 bed is absurd...dont you mean 3 bed?

I took deeds on a house 1 month ago the previous owner got called in at the tax office and they wouldnt allow transfer until he paid a rental tax penalty.

So he had 3 property he rented each at 3000 tl per month 1 beds at kyrenia. They said it was too low. He argued with them that they where very old and tenants had been there a long time. They increased the rent to i think 8000 tl and bank dated it 4-5 years and he had to pay a 90000 tl fine.

Someome also told me they where where looking at making all tenants pay through the bank.

They are clearly trying to raise taxes asap to pay the huge increase in salary bill as the coffers are empty.

Rental tax always used to be disclosed and paid by the 15th of the following month.
October rent would of had to be paid by 15th November, are you saying this has changed?
TL rent last month was 8% for August and September
and sterling 13%
Or are they advising you of the rent you should be charging ?

As I personally said go and stay in the property and see if you think it's worth more!

Very confused

Reyntj wrote: ↑

Fri 01 Nov 2024 1:21 pm

I took deeds on a house 1 month ago the previous owner got called in at the tax office and they wouldnt allow transfer until he paid a rental tax penalty.

So he had 3 property he rented at 3000 tl per month 1 beds at kyrenia. They said it was too low. He argued with them that they where very old and tenants had been there a long time. They increased the rent to i think 7-8000 tl and bank dated it 4-5 years and he had to pay a 90000 tl fine.

Someome also told me they where where looking at making all tenants pay through the bank.

Couldn't he prove the rent? Unfortunately for him time sensitive for the sale.

My goodness a lot of my customers have £150, £170 a month apartments, tenants have been in years.
The 2 holiday homes are £60 a night or £350 a month and people still moan.

They just said it was too low. But it cant be £700 for a 1 bed everyone renting a 1 bed will get a fine!

Im not sure we have the full picture here.

They are clearly under orders to collect taxes asap to fill the huge hole they have to pay everyones salaries.

I would of had the tenants in

Unfortunately there are too many who pay nothing, i have always advised my customers to declare rental tax.
Plus lots of people living under residency or not but working.
Unfortunately the ones who try and do things correctly are easy targets to increase their contributions first to the tax man.

My guess they are targeting people who declare low amounts .the old guy i saw got fined got the choice to sign for the fine there and then or face going to court .

He told them he had never been to court in his life and signed.

Reyntj wrote: ↑

Fri 01 Nov 2024 1:54 pm

They just said it was too low. But it cant be £700 for a 1 bed everyone renting a 1 bed will get a fine!

Im not sure we have the full picture here.

They are clearly under orders to collect taxes asap to fill the huge hole they have to pay everyones salaries.

You maybe right regarding 1 bed apartment Ive amended original post.
Just trying to report what was told to us in the office this morning a lot to take in at the time.
This may only effect people with special arrangement that lowered their rent, family members etc.
We normally go monthly but circumstances led to missing last month.

https://www.ozdogrular.com/v1/content/view/54652/178/

I think ive read this correct but from 27.10 tenants have to pay through the bank?? They could do with telling people...

Just realised thats for turkey...
I suppose thats where the rumour i heard came from& that they might impose the same here

In paper today for 2025 they hope

Providing information about income-increasing measures, Berova said that rents will now be paid via banks

salaries will be deposited via banks in workplaces with more than 3 employees, and that work is being done to reduce the use of cash in the market.

Have you got a link please? Or which paper seems it will follow turkey
/
Its ok i found it thnx

I would like to find a tenant able and willing to pay £700 monthly.
Please form a queue.

13roman58 wrote: ↑

Sat 02 Nov 2024 6:19 am

I would like to find a tenant able and willing to pay £700 monthly.
Please form a queue.

Given the minimum wage is £793 net what are they living on, air?
So whats the plan with income tax, invent a figure, say £10,000 a week and charge tax on it?

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑

Sat 02 Nov 2024 9:23 pm

Given the minimum wage is £793 net what are they living on, air?
So whats the plan with income tax, invent a figure, say £10,000 a week and charge tax on it?

Probably, I believe businesses turn overs have always included the number of staff you employ is more money the business earns.
Unfortunately so many earn here without paying taxes, but there seems a lot of hoops to jump through to employ people and people to actually gain a job with a permit.
But if people are advertising high rents, and getting tenants , I would be suspicious on how the rents are being paid. I assume with workers, tied accommodation and lots sharing. 3 bed, 6 people , feel sorry for the ones who bring their families of non working age.
I can see wages up again in January

It will be interesting when I put in the October rent.

Like the casinos...& Hotels. & Big corporates ....have good accountants & relationships with important people..

Somebody already stood up in parliament and queried why the corporate tax receipts where abnormally low to other metrics.

I hope they tighten the net across the board or its just the poor who end up burdening this. Unfortunately i think the big corporates have a strangle hold over decision makers. The need to raise more tax is urgent to pay salaries .

Re rents in my first hand experience students & workers are multi sharing accomodation in kyrenia. Exactly as you say. But also not everybody is poor or on the minimum wage. There are rich students from africa iran turkey etc. Casino workers can earn much more than the minimum wage also most good hotels pay more than the minimum wage which incresses with service and position. A couple earning c £2000 per month or more is typical. Others with better jobs a lot more. 1 beds in kyrenia are £400 -£600 imo and you can see how thats affordable. 3 beds £600 +but 3-6 students /workers sharing they are finding the money often sent from abroad. Families on 1 wage its very tough. Same in istanbul other turkish cities and other parts of the world. Locals and students are moving to places like gonyeli and commuting. Must be worse in istanbul where.minimum wage is half .

Dont forget any non resident renting must have a zillion tl in the bank to qualify to live here...

Reyntj wrote: ↑

Sun 03 Nov 2024 7:52 am

Like the casinos...& Hotels. & Big corporates ....have good accountants & relationships with important people..

Somebody already stood up in parliament and queried why the corporate tax receipts where abnormally low to other metrics.

I hope they tighten the net across the board or its just the poor who end up burdening this. Unfortunately i think the big corporates have a strangle hold over decision makers. The need to raise more tax is urgent to pay salaries .

You could get the money overnight.
Tax casinos on their gross gaming yield {casino win} at 15%, which is the rate in the South I believe, and is the lowest rate in the UK. It steps up to 50% in the UK.
Trust me they will pay it or if they don't there will be a queue of worldwide casino operators who will come over and do so.
A team of four to six could monitor it very easily to check they don't fiddle it and pretty much anyone who can do elementary maths can oversee it.
It would be a very risky manoeuvre anyway for a casino to try and cook the books on the table results as it would leave them wide open to be scammed by the staff and players, their biggest fear. And if they do, take their casino licence and give it to someone who will be happy to pay it.

Merit paid a millon last year? On how many casinos, 4 or 5? Huge ones too.
A moderate casino in the UK, profitability wise not size wise {it would be dwarfed by a Merit} would pay at least two and a half million in gaming duty in the UK.
It's a fair tax if the rates are fair and 15% isn't onerous. The casino does well, you pay more tax, the casino has a bad year, you pay less tax.
Accountants can't hide profit as its purely based on the table result, you can't inflate other business figures to mask profit.
And its fair, the businesses over here who I'd guess are making the most profits will pay the most tax but still at a rate that keeps the business more than viable.
I don't know Merit's casino win but I'd be surprised if they were to pay less that fifteen million a year under that system. And as I said if they didn't want to then it would be very easy to find someone who will.
It's a far more equitable way than trying to squeeze another grand out of people who can't afford it.

Reyntj wrote: ↑

Sun 03 Nov 2024 7:52 am

But also not everybody is poor or on the minimum wage.

Not everybody but many are. Some are on less.
You can't have a system where a one bedroom apartment, which to me is the minimum for a worker to live in any sort of comfort is rated at £700 per month which is nearly 90% of the net minimum wage.

The first poster re-adjusted that and now has just said apartment. Im guessing they where actually referring to a 3 bed and i can see where they get that figure from. As far as im aware they dont have a rated system in place but they do know the range of prices being charged & deviations below that range are being challenged & back dated taxes collected at the price they decide need to be paid or you can go to court.

You mentioned an apartment to rent is minimum wage but it is also near the british monthly state pension too, for those who have been here for 15+ years it must be worrying especially if their circumstances change very quickly.
Also what about the vast difference in properties, some are lovely, some my animals live in better conditions!
Maybe you can charge £350 for your villa but the tax must be £91 instead of £45.5 you are currently paying

But isnt it the same in the uk? Who can rent a home in london on the state pension or the minimum wage..

Also its not a rated system in place. Nobody is saying there are fixed prices for a villa or apartment . What i saw was they look at it on a case by case basis .

If you have an old villa in a far out village £350 may well be acceptable...if its in ciklos kyrenia it might raise some eyebrows...

Yes it is the same in the uk and why so many have to commute.

As I said it will be interesting when I submit October's figures. They have been checking for the last few months but unfortunately old villas are not ideal holiday let's and long term nobody wants to stay that long.

My TC friend was in the Girne tax office recently and she said the figures differ by location, e.g. 1 bed flat in Girne centre vs 1 bed flat in Lapta. She said that a villa with pool was quoted at £1900 but not sure where that was.

JoandJelly wrote: ↑

Mon 04 Nov 2024 1:44 pm

She said that a villa with pool was quoted at £1900 but not sure where that was.

Monaco?

I don’t know of any other country where a tax office can dictate how much someone rents out their property for. I know someone who has rented out their apartment for years to the same family. Very good tenants. Always pay on time. Keep the property in good condition. Now the tax office say the rent isn’t enough and have said the rent should be double what the tenants are paying now.

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑

Mon 04 Nov 2024 3:49 pm

JoandJelly wrote: ↑

Mon 04 Nov 2024 1:44 pm

She said that a villa with pool was quoted at £1900 but not sure where that was.

Monaco?

Sounds like it

To be fair they are not dictating the rent just what the taxable rate is...and they absolutely can do that in the uk.

If you rent a property to a connected person from a limited conpany in the uk you have to rent it at market rate or the tax consequences can be problematic..

Ive heard there are many foreigners renting in iskele for very low tl rates brand new flats..& they are all now having taxes back dated....they cant all be renting to their mates...the tax office are just doing their job 8% on tl is not a great deal so people should stump up..nobody likes taxes and especially the time consuming monthly process here of registering contracts and monthly visits waiting to get the bill then waiting to pay. Its similar situation to the new property rules people enmasse have been scamming the system and this is the result. For every 1 who is renting at a genuine lower price to a friend there is a multiple declaring lower.

Its not all negative its a fixed amount easily to calculate and account for. Also the fact it is paid monthly means you dont get a much larger bill like self assessment in the uk and end up in a mess. Mostly the people in the tax office are helpful and i believe you can also pay online. When the old man i was with got fined it didnt seem a harrowing process they just give him a form to sign and agree to pay also they didnt apply a silly rate for the amount they applied from what i can make out. From what i could work out they applied a rent in tl of 8-9000 tl per 1+1 flat and had clearly taken into account that the houses where old and the tenants where long standing.

Been back to pay the tax today, asked about the figures told to us on Friday, "they are examples of current rental figures only"
If you have special arrangement with your Landlord that lowers your rent or the landlord wants to lower his tax commitment and its not in a threshold the tax office accept they will apply tax on the figure they see has reasonable, they back date it to beginning of contract even though they had previously accepted the figures on registration.

Reyntj

they cant all be renting to their mates...

Agreed, and even if they were renting to mates or Family members, that would be considered a 'Benefit in Kind' and taxed accordingly!

Yes I do understand that there are genuine cases of misinformation given but I still can't believe court will be the only answer. I can prove by electric bills and even reviews what people think of my customers villas. They are advertised at £60 a night but nobody is racing to stay in them and even long-term they generally move out after a couple of weeks. I feel court would be a little harsh to sort out.

Has there been anything in the papers or official announcements ?
If correct then young locals and UK pensioners etc. will not be able to pay these inflated rents

13roman58 wrote: ↑

Tue 12 Nov 2024 3:18 pm

Has there been anything in the papers or official announcements ?
If correct then young locals and UK pensioners etc. will not be able to pay these inflated rents

As I understand it (cop out!)...

It's not about the rent being charged, it's about the Tax payable on what the Tax Office deems to be a believable rent (which on TL rents is only 8%)

But the tax office can,t just make up laws arbitrarily

I dont see that they are...try telling hmrc in the uk you are renting a £700 flat for £150 per month..

I also think some are unaware of the market rents that are being charged. Www.101evler.com you can get an idea.

This is all part of structural reforms they are trying to implement here and turkey. Collecting more taxes.

numerous local papers have been reporting regularly inflation and high rents since covid its hard to believe people are not aware of that.

https://kibrisgazetesi.com/kiralar-ucuyor/

Heres one of many from august..title "rents are sky rocketing"...its not the tax office setting these rents its the market..

Reyntj wrote: ↑

Tue 12 Nov 2024 6:27 pm

I dont see that they are...try telling hmrc in the uk you are renting a £700 flat for £150 per month..

I also think some are unaware of the market rents that are being charged. Www.101evler.com you can get an idea.

This is all part of structural reforms they are trying to implement here and turkey.

numerous local papers have been reporting regularly inflation and high rents since covid its hard to believe people are not aware of that.

Advertise a price through agents who take their % but who can does pay these rediculous rents.
I thought the goverment wanted to make it more available to locals.
Sorry but NOT.

Thats simply.not correct. 90% of Agents charge 1 month rent to the tenant and no commission from the rent.

The regular newspaper reports are not.making the figures up....& The adverts are not.fake.

1 group who pay are students for example.no need to elaborate really...how do foreign students pay.high rents in the uk...etc & every other country.


I think some are living 10 years ago in the past. 10 years ago you could rent a 3 bed in central kyrenia for £400 its hard to find a 1 bed for that now. Its basic inflation coupled with a population explosion. The inflation has been huge as rents went down in covid then increased from a low base.

Minimum salary in £ terms have doubled and so have rents..turkey imo is worse as salary is low and rents can be simiar there to.


Im not seeing whats so ridiculous about a rent that was £400 10 years ago is £700 today. In fact its similar to increases almost eveeywhere in the world. Why would rents here not double like every other commodity has?

Yes people do live in the past, unfortunately their pensions / salaries do not increase the same as the rental market. As I have said before I feel sorry for workers on minimum wage and pensioners who are renting. Plus I have felt some of the properties my dogs lived in better accommodation.

I agree and disagree. Its always been very difficult to manage on the minimum wage here.

But minimum wage has kept up with rent increases here.

Where you are correct is uk average weekly pension income is not that.much higher since 2010...

Uk pensioners have got poorer from what i can make out which means it will be more difficult to live almost everywhere.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... per%20week.

Slightly off topic but ive shared the link here as i found it enlightening that uk pensioners taking into account inflation have likely been getting poorer. In 2010 couples average weekly pension was about £520 today its only £561. I think think this helps explain where some people are coming from.

https://iamkate.com/data/uk-inflation/

If you put £520 into this uk inflation calculator £520 in 2010 is now £910. A shocking situation!

13roman58 wrote: ↑

Tue 12 Nov 2024 3:18 pm

Has there been anything in the papers or official announcements ?
If correct then young locals and UK pensioners etc. will not be able to pay these inflated rents

Has Keith says, what someone actually pays in rent is up to them, what landlord pays in tax is up for discussion.

kerry 6138 wrote: ↑

Tue 12 Nov 2024 9:11 pm

13roman58 wrote: ↑

Tue 12 Nov 2024 3:18 pm

Has there been anything in the papers or official announcements ?
If correct then young locals and UK pensioners etc. will not be able to pay these inflated rents

Has Keith says, what someone actually pays in rent is up to them, what landlord pays in tax is up for discussion.

I don,t believe that the tax office have the authority to assess over the counter increases .
Family favorites comes to mind.
Unless you declare 1/2/3 bed, but why would you if you are getting a villa looked after /lived in,and all bills paid by friends ?

Well ive seen them do it with my own eyes & is the first poster just making it up? On saturday morning they visited a well known site in kyrenia and knocked on every door tenants had to produce contracts and comfirm what they paid.
Its pretty obvious the direction has come from the powers that be. Imo its naive to not know the wide ranging powers tax collectors have. Ive seen people taken to tribunal at uk because they refused to pay assesed tax...it didnt go well..it was a kangaroo court and they ended up paying a lot more. If you are a foreigner here and you want to start arguing with the tax officers about their authority & how you think it should work etc good luck with that....what your saying is everybody could write £1 and the fraud section in kyrenia have no authority to act...thats clearly not how it is and they absolutely do have authority...there might well be nepotism but the case i saw he was a turkish cypriot.

Pleased they are checking up, I rather they found the ones who do not register and pay nothing than hit the people who do go in and pay.

snd1966 wrote: ↑

Wed 13 Nov 2024 6:26 pm

Pleased they are checking up, I rather they found the ones who do not register and pay nothing than hit the people who do go in and pay.

After dreading going, all my submissions were accepted, no conversation apart from hello and thank you.