Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Are more expats of all races now leaving the TRNC than those coming over to live, I was speaking to a restaurant owner when I was over and he said he was losing his faithful through those returning due to ill health or those dying, no new customers coming over. What do you all think.

I remember this sort of post popping up on the old Cyprus44 forum and thinking the same thing - who cares? It's just another excuse to bitch about not liking North Cyprus. You've made it clear in many posts, Belle, that you don't like North Cyprus and seldom have a good word for it. But there are plenty of us here who love this little piece of paradise and just accept the TRNC for what it is, taking the good and bad as it comes. There are some who don't but that's life, we all have different tastes and expectations. It'll balance out in the washing.

Wow that's a bit spitefull, I was asking a valid question, from your answer I would detect you are there out of sufferance rather than personal choice, which was my first impression of some of your other posts, those that praise something consantly are usually those that are suffering the most and are jealous of those un restrained.

In the course of my work(I have a work permit!!) I come into regular contact with Expats some leaving(mostly older with health problems) and also newcomers I would say that numbers are steady but I have noticed more enquiries recently from people who have just arrived.BBB

What does 'expats of all races' mean? Everybody I have so far met declare themselves as part of human race... do we also have expats from outer space?

If the amount of people going back to UK (or at least leaving the TRNC) is commensurate with the number of people moving their dogs or making enquiries to the KAR Dog Transportation Department then yes, there are more people leaving than arriving and I think this is backed up by the stats i read somewhere on C44, re the amount of containers and Removal Firms. Having said that i think there is an age difference to take into account. Yes Ex-pats (and not just Brits, but Germans as well) are leaving and those we have spoken to, almost without exception, quote the cost of "health" as being the driving force behind their decision. I.e being a diabetic can cost a small forturne in tester strips alone. People tend the think in terms of major Ops., but there are an awful lot of other matters to take into consideration.

I don't think you can really come to the conclusion you have using the KAR transportation service statistics without examining the numbers of people who have acquired a dog in the TRNC.... Lots of dogs are acquired here and taken back when the new owner decides to return to the UK but that does not mean the numbers stack-up to an overall reduction in expats. Statistics are like a bikini - what they hide is more interesting than what they reveal...

I replied previously but it's disappeared. I'm here out of choice and I choose to think positively because life's too short to be negative. I think the TRNC is a great place. All I'm saying is that this sort of post is all too often an excuse to slag off at the TRNC. Who really knows how many are going or leaving and, in the long run, does it matter?

MoBry wrote:I replied previously but it's disappeared. I'm here out of choice and I choose to think positively because life's too short to be negative. I think the TRNC is a great place. All I'm saying is that this sort of post is all too often an excuse to slag off at the TRNC. Who really knows how many are going or leaving and, in the long run, does it matter?

Mobry you are far too sensitive regarding a simple question and who are you to decide what matters to people and what doesn't. , I was not slagging off the TRNC, some love it, some don't and some are there out of necessity rather than choice. I really don't care what your circumstances are to be quite frank, but please do not attack me for asking a question, it shows you in a very unfavourable light.

Mobry I agree with you , we love it here . Cant see any reason to want to go back too the uk . We live here because we want to , we could go back if we had to , but cant ever see that happening .

No, I'm not being sensitive, Belle, I'm simply pointing out that what is supposed to be query all too often is a lead-in to criticism of the TRNC. We are guests here, I reckon Turkish-Cypriots would read this forum too, and I think it's good to be respectful of the local people in what we write. It doesn't preclude constructive criticism but really who can tell how many ex-pats are leaving or arriving, and as I've said, in the long run, does it really matter? And yes, I won't post any more on this subject except to say it's a great place to live and I hope more ex-pats realise it, come here and are as happy as we are.

You are not a guest there unless a TC personally invited you over to stay with them, it was your choice. You pay your way, and why would anything I have said offend a TC, wind your neck in and take a chill pill, each to their own.


guest (ɡɛst)

—n
1. a person who is entertained, taken out to eat, etc, and paid for by another

Mo: I have been forced off threads and even the Board several times by personal attacks (though I should say not in my case Belle) and other posters have told me not to let it get me down. Can I pass that on as I appreciate your optimistic attitude to life and posts.

This is very much a love it or hate it place and and it is inevitable some people will just not settle and will if possible leave.

What is sad is that people who love it have to leave for health reasons. Maybe in some cases it is because of a recent bad investment which has lost us money we had put aside for health care.

The general concenus is that there are more Brits leaving than arriving. That is compensated in some degree by people from the old Soviet Bloc arriving. Certainly that is the view of shipping agents.

People are leaving for a variety of reasons the main 2 IMO are the costs of Health & education.

RR I did not attack Mobry, it was the other way round, I am not in the habit of having a dig at anyone, I posted a perfectly reasonable question.

I would imagine that people are leaving TRNC, like Cypursishome stated Health &n education are contributing factors
add the fact that the housing market is in a slump all over the world, if like us you were not lucky enough to buy before the recession hit then you were luck, it is far more difficult to find a becomes even less viable
Another factor, many people don't realise that this is unfortunately a split island, when the mention of "Cyprus" being in the EU and the banks taking liberties will put people off
TRNC need a good propaganda machine like the south

Admin/mods please note.

This is my third attempt at getting the following on the Board the others have just disappeared. Time is a factor for me.

I tried to add to my earlier post : This is note an easy country for the elderly and/or disabled. Lots of hill, no disabled driver, scheme, difficult access to many places and access to the sea (which is therapautic ) expensive unless you are a mountain goat. It used to be less of a problem because of the helpful attitude and respect for age of the Turkish Cypriots nd a small and supportive expat population. This has largely been eroded by an increasing expat population which are mainly "here for the beer" and dont care a toss about the country or anyone else. We could do a lot more to help each other on a day to day basis, not just in an emergency when we might get publicity , but suggestions are just ignored.

My post disappeared too!!

Mine to

Quick ref to what went missing.
I agree with MoBry to many young people come to the TRNC and have a young family.
The big factor in moving abroad, schooling, cars, life style ect.
If you don't have a substantial income before you come here, STAY AWAY.
Life in the sun is great, ( IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT ) nothing here is going to give you a income to support your family, there is no NHS in the TRNC.
If you come and don't make it, please do not come on this web site and complain about the TRNC, it was your choice.

Karmels,
I wish people would listen to all the advice and suggestions before making the decision to come here, it is as if some take the attitude it will not happen to me. Then when it all goes belly up everybody and their dog gets the blame.
It is a good place to live if you do not have to work and support a growing family. For all its faults the UK is still not a bad place to raise a family or to be elderly and infirm.

Munchkin: If there is discrimination against expats it is becauseof the appallingly insensitive behaviour of the expats. l6 years ago Cypriots liked and welcomed British (and to some extent German) expats and went out of their way to make them welcome. It always surprised me considering the way the British Government had treated them but the seemed able to different between Government policies and individuals and often had happy memories of British friends from pre 1959.

Even now in times of trouble I have to rely on the help of my Cypriot friends when 90% of the Brits cross over to side, I frequently hear from Cypriots "What is wrong with the Yeni Ingilesi - they are just not like you and your generation. " Thinking back I think the problem started in 2004 when people realised that North Cyprus was accessible and had a cheaper cost of living and housing. They thought the Cypriots were improverished ignorant peasant and could be taken advantage of , and were then surprised and annoyed when the "ignorant peasants" bit back and stated to exploit them.

I now not all new Brits and like that and some love the counry and get on with the locals, but they as well as the old timers suffer from the attitudes of the majority.

cih: I dont want to go too far ot, nor put too many unhappy personal memories here, but Icould not let your statement "The UK is not a bad place to be old and infirm". Nor unless it has changed a h*** of a lot in l6 years it isnt. Maybe if you are very rich or very poor, but if you have worked hard and saved all your life for a nest egg for your old age to eke out your good pension, and you have serious ill health your money and your home are taken fromyou and runout in a very short time, your family is driven to close nervous breakdown by the demands of the sytem , you are left to the not very tender mercies of unquallified staff in private "homes" and husband and wife of over 50 years are parted because they have different care needs.

R.R.

You are Rambling.

blow it, my message timed out too, ..... this is cyprus, hahaha

I think this post is now done, people have had their say and now its going around in circles its what brought "44" down. Time to close it and move on !

Unfortunately there will always be what I consider a minority from many different countries who have decided to settle overseas in the hope of making a quick killing or imposing their lifestyle and culture on what is not their homeland. This very often leads to animosity and disagreement. It happens all over the world.

For the TRNC whilst we are not permanent residents, I have yet in all my years coming across to have felt ripped off or not wanted - lets be honest it is usually the week/two week holidaymaker that is most likely to experience a problem as many on their first visit or two do not have much information to go on. For those permanent or semi permanent residents, they made the decision to stay and they must now live with it. Some will decide enough is enough and return home, others will stick it out to see if things get better and there are those that may have no choice but to remain. But to remain and moan - sorry no sympathy.

Are more ex pats leaving, I have no idea....maybe in the British community they are, but are all ex pats heading elsewhere, I am not so sure.

For us we think that slowly slowly the TRNC is changing, it has to and despite many things it is being more recognised throughout the world. For us it is a piece of paradise and long may it stay that way.

Hear hear Posh,

As usua Posh you make a lot of sense. Three points though:

1. There is no such as paradise on this earth - the clever or lucky live somewhere were they can cope with the imperfections and the benefits outweigh the downside for them. Also you do need to have independant means. Quite a few people who were responsible, did their homework and had enough money to live comfortably when they came here are feeling the pinch because of the global financial situation means that their pensions and savings are not keeping up with the very steep cost of living here, which in turn si partly due to unreasonable expatations of other expats.

2. There is a difference between whinging and constructive criticism and sometimes they sort of seque into each other.As a long term permanent resident I think I may do the latter - if it doesnt sound that way either I am expressing myself badly or people are not reading my posts properly. Also sometimes voicing ones concerns and sharing experiences (providint it is not abusive) can stimulate someone's brain or memory and provide a sollution.

3. I am sick of hearing progress is inevitable - not if it is progress in the wrong direction. I really think the TRNC is at a turning (maybe a crisis) point and the powers that be and all residents and well wishers need to take a deep breath and think about the direction they want to go in a- this a a very young country and it doesnt really seem to know what it wants to be when it grows up.

Mel: Pots and kettles!

R.R
Ha my pots are all polished.
I am glad I never had to produce a essay for you, I would never got home from school.

RR

Depends what in our own minds we class as paradise....we have been and lived in many places all over the world and some are very special. They vary from the Shetland Islands - isolated, expensive, terrible weather but a great place to live and fantastic community spirit. Some may say paradise. ROC - Many happy years spent in the south, children born on the island, great lifestyle that would make most very envious...changed beyond all recognition since first there as a teenager in 1970, but we still manage to find special places to visit. TRNC, yes it has its failings and we are very cautious when we speak about the place as paradise to us can often be hell on earth for others. To us it is paradise.

Sometimes the written word is miss interpreted by others but there is no reason why constructive criticism should not be posted and discussed...lets face it here in the UK I could write a book on things that are not right (to me!) but to others they may seem perfectly reasonable. We all have our own views.

Progress is inevitable, the south has progressed (Some may say not) and the changes since it joined the EU are at times staggering. The TRNC will also progress, albeit at a slower pace - whilst not everything is perfect by any means, for this state to grow and mature progress must happen. In the meantime we will continue to love the place as it is - warts and all as it is a corner of earth touched by heaven.

We feel very lucky to be able to say we have found a place in which we feel very happy, at ease and relaxed.

I have no figures to quote, but it is fact that the majority of the friends and neighbours I had when I was there have gone back to the UK.

I haven't the faintest idea, however, how many others have arrived in TRNC to replace them.

Posh I think you prove my point by your comment about the Shetlands - places have different strengths and weaknesses and one persons hell is another persons heaven.

The problem comes when the place you thougt was heaven changes fast andoutof recognition. And the chanes inthe TRNC have been VERY fast over the last few years. In fac whatever is said about the Government I have a lot of sympathy for them trying to keep up.

Like Kaiser a lot of my friends have left the TRNC, some because it wasnt really their scene , a rather frightening number forced reluctantly by age and ill health but recently and again frighteningly it has been because what they considered paradise and had been their happy home for many years is turning into the other place. I dont object to progress per se and sometimes it has been good, but progress that damages the environment and culture and stresses the infrastructure and further disadvantages the vulnerable is not in the right direction imho.

Most of my circle of friends have been here 5+ years and, at this moment in time, have no plans to return. Things happen in people's lives however and sometimes people just get bored and want to try something different. Having said that, all those that have been here for that length of time have a certain outlook on life very much the same as mine and, I suspect, similar to that of PoshinDevon.

I think one of the stats I read (but can't for the life of me remember where - it might have been from one of the removals firms on C44) that in 2011 they were bringing in one 40ft container, but 6 out. I don't know whether that is still the case. Like other contributors to this thread, one of the main reasons for moving out is health. I well remember discussing with my daughter just before we moved here, and her exacts words were "but Mother, what happens when you get older and have health problems?" my exact reply to her was "We'll just have to worry about that when the time comes". Unfortunately and inevitably "the time does come" and its worrying. I envy those who have reached their 70's and above who are still hail and hearty.

Karmels: Please respect my privacy and do not use the fact we have met in "real life" to make personal comments/attacks that are unrelated to what appears on the Board.

I THINK WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH ON THIS TOPIC UNLESS ANYONE HAS REAL FACTS AND FIGURES!!

Where are the mods?

Having read thro the topic again this morning, I believe that in the light of no real facts and figures it is time to lock the thread.

Interesting discussion with some good points made, but it does now seem to be a topic going nowhere.

Time to close and move on.