Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zgZ2JtVfm4&t=165s



and before anyone 'goes off on one' please do first note the forum section this is posted in please.

Didn’t watch the whole video because I prefer my comedy funny.

Never heard of this guy but no doubt he is a regular on those panel shows on Channel 4 so earns a living?

What always DOES amuse me with these comedians is the reaction of the audience. No uncontrollable belly laughs ever. Just forced polite laughter, bit of nodding as you say to your partner and friend “did you see what he did there, sooooo clever.” As they force a smile.

Still I guess that why they have to be supported by our licence fees because they sure won’t ever going to making a living selling DVDs of their shows.

So to be clear only white people can be racist now because of their history or material success in the past and their position and material success now?
That’s pretty much the theory isn’t it?

That’s why we couldn’t even say that black people can be racist and often are. African v Caribbean. Within the Caribbean, Big Island v Small Island. Black v South Asian. Sikh v Muslim.

All of the above is irrelevant and not real racism because Britain colonised the world hundreds of years ago and white people generally might be better off than black people? That is white privilege?

You know this is complete and utter BS don’t you?

During Britain’s colonial days 99% of the white people in a Britain barely had enough to eat and were exploited. This is despite their fellow white British people actually owning the empire. Yes there was slavery. There was also indentured servitude. Far more people arrived in America in indentured servitude than as slaves. Even Howard Zinn as left wing a historian you’ll ever find admits indentured servants were pretty much slaves.
They were different days time to move on.

As for the whole nonsense that a black person couldn’t racially abuse a white person because of the past and current status that is as logical as saying that Mad Frankie Fraser at 5’1 couldn’t bully a 6 feet plus guy because of the obvious disparity in height.

You’re fairly tall Erol do you want me to introduce you to a short guy for you to kick his butt?

As for white privilege that pre-supposes that say in a job interview the person hiring is a bigot and that colour would make any difference?
Recent events have shown that there still are some bigots but they are pretty thin in the ground.
Being tall is a privilege having big breasts is a privilege and on and on.

Here’s the thing if white do- gooders and black race hustlers spend all their time telling black kids they are bound to fail because of structural racism and that it isn’t their fault because of slavery hundreds of years ago then they probably will fail.

If you tell them look there will be the odd interview where the guy is a bigot so you have no chance, so forget it it’s his problem not yours, pick yourself up and get to another interview, then there is more chance they will succeed.

Look at sport. Sport is purely results driven. There isn’t any look you can’t have been expected to make that basket given the structural racism that exists.
If you're good you're in, if not, you're not. You can be a little green man from Mars if you are good you're in.
In that cut throat world black people have thrived without the help of their do-gooder white saviour.

Black people have crashed through any barrier put in their path in sports. The greatest ever golfer Tiger Woods won his first major at a club he couldn’t have been a member of only a couple of years earlier.
In boxing the colour bar didn’t stop black fighters eventually dominating the sport.

But being given equality of opportunity doesn’t always equal equality of outcomes so some want to socially engineer society to help.

If you don't have a black swimmer on the relay team that’s not right, you have to replace the 4th best with the 16th best. By the same token It doesn’t matter that the entire 100 metre running team is black.

It doesn’t work and it’s divisive.
The newly appointed black member of the swimming team is going to get stick because he is going to cost his team the gold medal. It’s not his fault it’s some liberal idiot’s fault. It will also stop another black swimmer from trying. Who needs abuse he'll think.
The white person who he replaced is now more anti-black than he was because he feels cheated from his rightful place simply because of his colour. And on and on it goes.

The left trying to socially engineer by positive discrimination is going to make things worse not better.
The left have destroyed every economy they have ever touched, what makes them think they are going to be any better at social engineering?

They generally mean well but are useless practically.

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑

Fri 16 Jul 2021 7:34 am

Didn’t watch the whole video because I prefer my comedy funny.

Listen to yourself ETS. "I have not watched the whole video but here is what I think about the video". Variants of such "I have not read or listened to what you have said but here is what I think about what you have said'. "I have not read the report on racism in the UK but here is what I think about the report on racism in the UK".

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑

Fri 16 Jul 2021 7:34 am

Never heard of this guy but no doubt he is a regular on those panel shows on Channel 4 so earns a living?

That is exactly your problem mate as far as I am concerned. You have no doubt. That is why you do not have to watch the video to be able to share your views on it, listen to what anyone has said to be able to share your views on it etc etc. You know already without any of that tedious stuff. Have always known. No need to progress or refine or change in any way. Your lack of doubt scares me.

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑

Fri 16 Jul 2021 7:34 am

What always DOES amuse me with these comedians is the reaction of the audience. No uncontrollable belly laughs ever. Just forced polite laughter, bit of nodding as you say to your partner and friend “did you see what he did there, sooooo clever.” As they force a smile.

Where in the course of a joke would you expect the most 'audience reaction' if there was to be one ? At the end, after the punchline perhaps ? But you did not watch the whole video did you ? Now I know you are a busy man and have much on your plate scouring the internet for proof that the racial attacks on the England players that missed penalties was not 'that bad really' and the like. Important work no doubt. So I have made it easy for you. Unfortunately given the way the system works I can not embed the video in this post so that it starts at the punch line for you. I can only provide a link that does that. I realise that even clicking this may be too much effort for you given how much you have on your plate but here goes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zgZ2JtVfm4&t=161s

This then is the audience reaction you characterise as being " Just forced polite laughter, bit of nodding as you say to your partner and friend “did you see what he did there, sooooo clever.” As they force a smile" having admitted you did not even watch the video to the end. Funny because I do not see, by actually looking what you managed to see without even having to look at all.

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑

Fri 16 Jul 2021 7:34 am

Still I guess that why they have to be supported by our licence fees because they sure won’t ever going to making a living selling DVDs of their shows.

In my experience guesses made in wilful ignorance are generally less likely to reflect any sort of actual reality than those made after some attempt to look first at actual reality. I do get it. It does not matter to you what the reality in this case may or may not be. It is literally irrelevant to you. What matters is you making some generalised point regardless of if it does or does not apply in this case. I get it and it is ok. Can you get that just because this is what you chose to do that does not mean it is what everyone else does or should chose to do ?

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑

Fri 16 Jul 2021 7:34 am

So to be clear only white people can be racist now because of their history or material success in the past and their position and material success now?
That’s pretty much the theory isn’t it?

That’s why we couldn’t even say that black people can be racist and often are. African v Caribbean. Within the Caribbean, Big Island v Small Island. Black v South Asian. Sikh v Muslim.

All of the above is irrelevant and not real racism because Britain colonised the world hundreds of years ago and white people generally might be better off than black people? That is white privilege?

I believe that seeking to end racism is all about personal choices. About making the choice to try and understand racism better. Is about progressing and continually refining and improving my understanding of it , whilst knowing there is no end 'answer'. I have always struggled to some degree or other with the idea of what is the difference between racism and prejudice. The difference between racism and prejudice based on race. This guy, this joke, to some degree and in some way has aided me in that journey of constantly seeking to refine my understanding of racism. That is why I posted the video. Helped me, might help others.

To be abused racially as say a white person in the UK by a black person in the UK, which can and does happen, is not the same as being racially abused as a black person by a white one. There are levels and degrees of commonality between these two and I do not and have never said otherwise. There are also levels and degrees of difference as well. I also do not deny this. Material differences. Differences I want to understand better because I chose to want to as a means to playing my part in ending racism.

To be racially abused as a white person in the UK , that is (still) predominately white and within a global culture that is predominated white and where your statistical outcomes because of your race are not negatively affected simply because you are white is not the same as being racially abused by a white person or another black person. Not in generic terms and certainly not in the impact it has on a given individual. Similarities ? Yes at some levels in some ways and to some degrees. Differences. Yes at some levels in some ways and to some degree.

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑

Fri 16 Jul 2021 7:34 am

During Britain’s colonial days 99% of the white people in a Britain barely had enough to eat and were exploited. This is despite their fellow white British people actually owning the empire. Yes there was slavery. There was also indentured servitude. Far more people arrived in America in indentured servitude than as slaves. Even Howard Zinn as left wing a historian you’ll ever find admits indentured servants were pretty much slaves.
They were different days time to move on.

False equivalence and one wrong negates another wrong rhetorical techniques. Did many 10's of millions of ordinary people globally come out on to the streets to make a stand against indentured servitude ?

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑

Fri 16 Jul 2021 7:34 am

As for the whole nonsense that a black person couldn’t racially abuse a white person because of the past and current status that is as logical as saying that Mad Frankie Fraser at 5’1 couldn’t bully a 6 feet plus guy because of the obvious disparity in height.

Straw man rhetorical technique. No one is saying a black person can not racially abuse a white one. Not this comedian. Not me. Not anyone that I can see. What is being said is that when that happens there are differences compared with when a white person does it to a black one.

That today western european cultural, military and economic power is as strong as it is, is inextricably linked to the reality and fact that in preceding centuries white western europeans did go around the world colonising other non white , non European races and cultures. What is more we did so using notions and justifications of the white man's superiority over these lesser people and cultures. On a scale never seen before. That whilst we did this we also did bad things to white people as well does not change this reality. You can chose to believe that the UK's status today as one of only five permanent members of the UN security council, that our position nationally in terms of relative wealth of nations, that our global power today soft and hard , that our status as a nuclear power are all entirely and totally unconnected in any way or to any degree with the fact that in the 17,18 and first half of the 19th centuries we waged war on and subjugated other people and other races and their lands and their resources. Believe that if we had not waged such race wars in those centauries we still today have reached the place we are today nationally in terms of wealth and power. That is your prerogative to believe that. Your choice. It is not my choice.

This historical context, this historical reality does mean that to be racially abused as a black person in the UK or US by a white person is not the same as to be so abused as a white person by a black one.

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑

Fri 16 Jul 2021 7:34 am

As for white privilege that pre-supposes that say in a job interview the person hiring is a bigot and that colour would make any difference? Recent events have shown that there still are some bigots but they are pretty thin in the ground.

Another fundamental failure of comprehension to me. Another case of getting it ass about tit. The whole notion of white privilege is that statistical negative outcomes based on race in things like employment can and do continue to persist without the people hiring having to be bigots. That is the whole point. The one you miss entirely. The one you get ass about tit. Those of us that want to play our part in ending racism, by understanding it better want to understand why this is so.

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑

Fri 16 Jul 2021 7:34 am

Being tall is a privilege having big breasts is a privilege and on and on.

The modern world today is not one inextricably linked to and a result of preceding centauries of enslavement and subjugation of short people by tall people. On the enslavement and subjugation of the small breasted by the big breasted. It is the result of a preceding history of systematic enslavement and subjugation of black people by white people.

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ↑

Fri 16 Jul 2021 7:34 am

Here’s the thing if white do- gooders and black race hustlers spend all their time telling black kids they are bound to fail because of structural racism and that it isn’t their fault because of slavery hundreds of years ago then they probably will fail.

Just more straw man arguments imo. People, whatever derisory term you use for them, do not go around telling black kids they are bound to fail. Just does not happen. What many parents of black and mixed race children in places like the UK and US do tell their kids are things like 'be careful around the police, do not antagonise them, do not give them an excuse' and 'you will encounter racism' and 'you will have to work harder and smarter to reach your goals and objectives than if you are white'. They tell them these things because of their experiences and their reality and experience of being black in such places.

and now I have enough for now. I am not avoiding anything. I am tired and want to talk about (learn about , progress and refine my understanding of) something else.

erol wrote: ↑

Sat 17 Jul 2021 9:57 am

Listen to yourself ETS. "I have not watched the whole video but here is what I think about the video".

Its what a 2 minute video? I watched a minute of it. I could write the other minute. Heard it all before.

erol wrote: ↑

Sat 17 Jul 2021 9:57 am

Where in the course of a joke would you expect the most 'audience reaction' if there was to be one ?

Here's the thing. I watch a political programme because at that moment I want to watch something about politics. I watch sport to watch sport. Comedy to laugh.
When I watch Masterchef I don't really want to be assaulted by Greg Wallace's views on Brexit.

But the left need to hijack an audience to constantly push their agenda.

These 'comedians' need to be on these BBC panel shows because if they were relying on bookings they would starve. Sure they'll get the odd gig at a university where the audience will politely laugh to be woke. That same audience will then go and watch Michael McIntyre to actually be entertained.
Or am I the only one who when watching the best 500 films or whatever drivel you are duped into watching, see someone you have never heard of with the magic word Comedian underneath their name?
Still if our licence fee keeps them off the dole great because their talent certainly won’t.

That said laughter doesn't seem to be THAT important to lefties. Generally a dull sanctimonious bunch.
Listen to yourself Erol. “You didn’t watch the video!!! You must watch the video!!! How can I train your mind if you don’t eat up the little pellets I find you.”
Ever thought of going into teaching mate, they’ll take you in a heartbeat. Honestly you don’t really need to know much about a particular subject, teacher training will give you what to read out and tips on how to humiliate any child who has the temerity to say that doesn’t make sense.

erol wrote: ↑

Sat 17 Jul 2021 9:57 am

This guy, this joke, to some degree and in some way has aided me in that journey of constantly seeking to refine my understanding of racism. That is why I posted the video. Helped me, might help others.

So not really comedy then? Not this will really make you laugh?
So a forced laugh a nod and a very clever is the correct response?
I did realise that hence "here we go again."

erol wrote: ↑

Sat 17 Jul 2021 9:57 am

To be abused racially as say a white person in the UK by a black person in the UK, which can and does happen, is not the same as being racially abused as a black person by a white one.

A bit like being bullied by 4 people of 5’6 is not pretty much the same as being bullied by 4 people of 6’?
OK got it, it sounds a bit pick the fly poo out the pepper but…….

erol wrote: ↑

Sat 17 Jul 2021 9:57 am

and within a global culture that is predominated white

OK got it carry on

erol wrote: ↑

Sat 17 Jul 2021 9:57 am

False equivalence and one wrong negates another wrong rhetorical techniques. Did many 10's of millions of ordinary people globally come out on to the streets to make a stand against indentured servitude ?

So no problem with indentured servitude then? We’ll try and move very swiftly past that. I know a lot of white people fought in the American civil war which ended slavery. I know a lot of people supported Wilberforce for people they would never meet, who were themselves dirt poor and didn’t have the vote but we need to bury that don’t we? Doesn’t support the narrative of every white person in the world was exploiting every black person.

erol wrote: ↑

Sat 17 Jul 2021 9:57 am

Straw man rhetorical technique. No one is saying a black person can not racially abuse a white one. Not this comedian. Not me. Not anyone that I can see. What is being said is that when that happens there are differences compared with when a white person does it to a black one.

Both Hitler and Stalin made the trains run on time but the fares were cheaper in Russia?

erol wrote: ↑

Sat 17 Jul 2021 9:57 am

That today western european cultural, military and economic power is as strong as it is, is inextricably linked to the reality and fact that in preceding centuries white western europeans did go around the world colonising other non white , non European races and cultures.

Just white Europeans did that? Or are we only allowed to look at the years you will push us towards.
We could of course say parts of Africa, China, Asia and South America have fallen behind because they followed left dogma of course? OR aren’t we allowed to mention that? Why not go back 300 years to find a reason for their failures rather than 40?

erol wrote: ↑

Sat 17 Jul 2021 9:57 am

You can chose to believe that the UK's status today……..blah blah

Obviously totally down to Imperialism nothing to do with the huge advantage we gained from industrialising first?
No thought that, yes we threw our weight around as countries did to us before and strong countries will often do to weak countries. That’s history. What I love is the fact that you and others will bring up Imperialisation and colonization and stripping countries of assets when the UK did it centuries ago but will swiftly move past any thought that didn’t Soviet Russia do much the same?

erol wrote: ↑

Sat 17 Jul 2021 9:57 am

It is the result of a preceding history of systematic enslavement and subjugation of black people by white people.

Cough. Barbary Pirates.

erol wrote: ↑

Sat 17 Jul 2021 9:57 am

What many parents of black and mixed race children in places like the UK and US do tell their kids are things like 'be careful around the police, do not antagonise them, do not give them an excuse'

Hows that working out? 105 black people were victims or murder and manslaughter in the year up
to March 2020 in the UK. God the police killed 105 people? I mean you of course won’t speculate how many died at the hands of other black people.
Personally I’d say if you see a group of young black men try and stand near a policeman as your odds on coming home alive will increase a thousand fold.
Don’t listen to the race baiters, yes if you wave a gun near an armed police officer you are going to increase your chances of getting shot. If you do bait a police officer the likelihood is he will hurt you.
I’m no fan of the police and had more than my share of run ins with them but I don’t think that if we totally castrate them the streets are going to be safer.
Forget America as it is full of trigger happy armed loons let’s have a look at how many black people have died at the hands of the police. It is miniscule.

As its topical and I feel connected, with the Jamaican demand for reparations for slavery can I ask how that is going to work?

Forget the pros or cons what are going to be the mechanics of it?

Britain pays fifty billion to Jamaica a country with a history of corrupt governments to evenly divide that amongst the people? Put into infrastructure that kind of thing?

I don't know it is just cynical old me but......
Maybe just maybe some dictator might deliberately keep their people in dire poverty to keep the aid tap turned on and pocket the lions share?
I don't mind sending money to Ethiopia for a well but I do have an objection for that money going to gold plate the dictators newest Mercedes.

You may counter with "well some might get though, it's better than nothing."
True we might send money for ten wells and one might get built and we accept the rest might end up in a numbered account in Geneva.
Or maybe we might get no wells and he also decides to destroy some more infrastructure to get more money.
If the lack of water was good for five billion destroying half the hospitals might be good for ten billion?

And who does it come from?

I accept that I, who doesn't have any ancestors who owned slaves or seemed to benefit in any way from this Empire, has to pay as I'm white.

How about my black mate who originated from Jamaica and got out because he couldn't ever seem to get out of poverty there?

I assume his taxes are going in as well? Or does he get some money being of Jamaican origin?
I mean he has got no benefit from an England funded by slavery has he?
He didn't go to the same school I did use the same buses and trains I do etc etc?

He has a mixed race son?
What happens there, the son gets half but has to pay the same half in the pot?

It reminds me of the Groucho Marx story. When he was told his son couldn't use the pool in some country club because he was half Jewish he asked could he go in up to his waist?

Or there is no cost because we have the money tree?

As ever a sweet idea, not practical and with a strong possibility of making things worse.
But in the Utopia we hope to build eh?
.

Silly me seeing that a joke had been posted in the jokes section I went to have a read. Oh well another thread to ignore.

Black Lives Matter

When this came out I did some research on this ‘epidemic’ of police indiscriminately killing BAME people. In the UK.

The number of deaths are comparable with white people being killed by the police here in UK and in America.
That is comparable with % of crimes committed not % of the population.
Interactions with the police so to speak.
Any other information used will have you in the area of proving that black men are the dirtiest players in the NBA because they have the most fouls called against them.

So anyhow at the time and I had a look at people killed by the police in the UK since 2000. I found a total of 57 cases which include the 3 terrorists killed during the 2017 London Bridge attack.

Of those 57, 43 were armed with knives, guns or explosives.
I include replica pistols and fake suicide vests.
With the best will in the world the police can’t be expected to differentiate in a pressure situation.
If someone has a suicide vest on or a fire arm the police should use lethal force to protect the general public and also they have a right to get home safe.

That leaves 14 in 20 years. Six were white so I assume BLM UK don’t care about those as they obviously can’t be racist?
Remember the cause isn’t brutal police matter it’s black lives matter.

That leaves 8.
In 20 years.
I wouldn't call it an epidemic and remember the BLM in the UK needed to import a murder to get the ball rolling.

So 8.
One was Jean Charles de Menezes in the aftermath of the July 05 bombings. Now obviously a cock up of royal proportions. De Menezes was BAME but that was only relevant in that he slightly matched the look of the known bombers to date. Whatever the ins and outs of the police intelligence gathering and actions and we could Monday morning quarterback the life out of it. To say he was killed by the police because he was black is a stretch.

Habib Ullah and Sean Rigg both died of cardiac arrests.
Now the police will say they didn’t lay a hand on them and the BLM activists will say the police caused the heart attacks. Who you believe depends on what side of the fence you are I guess but consider this.
Statistically considering the amount of interactions the police would have had with the public over 20 years, people will have heart attacks in their presence. Even if it is asking the police for directions. People drop dead in Tescos after all.
Also little tip, if you resist arrest, make sure you don’t have an underlying health problem.

Olaseni Lewis, Kingsley Burrell and Dalian Atkinson all had mental health issues and died resisting arrest.
It would be interesting to see what the statistics are of people who are mentally ill and violent dying while being restrained for their and others safety by mental health professionals when the police are not involved.
In one case the police went out of their way not to get involved and in the Atkinson case his own family were in fear of their lives. In the Atkinson case the police officer has been jailed for 8 years.

It shows if you resist arrest you improve your chances of not having a good outcome. It’s not showing the police roaming the streets looking for BAME people to kill.

Sheku Bayoh and Rashan Charles certainly warrant a further look but in both cases they resisted arrest.
In the Charles case the person tried to swallow an object and a member of public tried to help the policeman which seems unlikely if the policeman was using unfair force.
In the Bayoh case the police believe he had a knife and he had ecstasy and crack heroin in his system.

So 8 cases of which you could maybe say in 4 the police were negligent or maybe responsible and we need to investigate further.
In 20 years.

It’s 4 too many for sure but It’s not showing white police death squads killing innocent black people to me.

It is showing that if you wave a gun around or resist arrest when having say a heart abnormality or pumped full of dangerous drugs that it is not going to end well for you but that is true no matter what colour you are.

Undoubtedly it is very hard to get a conviction of a police officer. You have to rely on them not to circle the wagons , make false statements, hide evidence etc. Always has been always will be.

Again not a race thing, a police thing.

Saying the police need to be accountable? Fair enough.
Saying the police need to be more careful in who they hire? A hundred per cent.
Saying the police are indiscriminately murdering lots of innocent black civilians because of their race?
Data isn’t showing that.
The story might suit a certain agenda but the facts certainly aren't fitting the narrative.

Care for me to research the 6 white people who died?
Thought not.

Interesting that no-one would want to answer or challenge my list of deaths caused by policeman in the UK?
Who needs evidence when you can just state that the police are disproportionately murdering loads of black people for no reason?