Greece and the Euro

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Sun 25 Jan 2015 8:42 pm

What happens now? Will Greece opt out of the EU and go back to the Drachma? Will its Eurovision Song Contest supporter go with it and drop out of the EU as well? Can the RoC drop out and take TRNC with it? Happy days ahead.................

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Mon 26 Jan 2015 5:45 am

waddo wrote:What happens now? Will Greece opt out of the EU and go back to the Drachma? Will its Eurovision Song Contest supporter go with it and drop out of the EU as well? Can the RoC drop out and take TRNC with it? Happy days ahead.................

Confused? - You will be!

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Mon 26 Jan 2015 8:11 am

They should haver been ejected years ago when it became obvious that they'd cooked the books to join the club - but what happened? Instead they made them president of the EU! You couldn't make it up and still it beggars belief.

Retired · Post by **Retired** » Mon 26 Jan 2015 8:27 am

Agree totally Groucho. Tsipras is promising to double the minimum wage and to renege on at least half of the 240 million euro debt owed to the EU! Cyprus, Italy, Spain, Portugal, France ...next to renege no doubt if this is allowed. How this crazy organisation allowed these corrupt Mediterranean countries to join in the first place beggers belief. Most are still retiring at 50-55!

pc4854 · Post by **pc4854** » Mon 26 Jan 2015 8:49 am

I read a quote somewhere today which said it all. " The Greek people have plenty of money - it's just their government that hasn't got any."

rfs52a · Post by **rfs52a** » Mon 26 Jan 2015 9:04 am

Have any of the Euro member countries actually ever balanced their respective budgets and not cooked their books? It's a monetary black hole and it seems the stronger members (Germany & France) are using fiscal repression to control the rest.

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Mon 26 Jan 2015 9:41 am

pc4854 wrote:I read a quote somewhere today which said it all. " The Greek people have plenty of money - it's just their government that hasn't got any."

That sums it up for me - they seem to be a Nation of Tax Evaders from the highest to the lowest, no wonder their budgets never balanced.

They've all had their snouts in the trough for years, and then start squealing like stuck pigs when they have to pay back what they actually owe...

As Groucho says, "You couldn't make it up!"

RAZR63 · Post by **RAZR63** » Mon 26 Jan 2015 10:03 am

I read a quote somewhere today which said it all. " The Greek people have plenty of money - it's just their government that hasn't got any."

LOL so true, they have plenty of vacancies for tax collectors........

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Mon 26 Jan 2015 10:14 am

Did anyone listen to IPM on BBC 4 on Saturday 24th Jan? Chrisopher Humphreys (son of John Humphreys so no surprise he can get coverage of his views on the Beeb!) an expatriate in Athens describes life in Greece. Far be it from me to feel sorry for the Bubbles, but the effect membership of the EU is having on the lives or ordinary poor and middle class people is shocking and there are parallels for life in other Med. countries.

There but for the Grace of God (or Allah) go we?

Retired · Post by **Retired** » Mon 26 Jan 2015 10:38 am

Read John Humphries article in The Mail on Saturday, his son is married to a Greek national and John and himself own the house..so no hardship there. Interesting article and takes in other things than just folks suffering due to austerity measures. I have friends who have a house on a Greek Island..they tell me that when they go out to a restaurant, they still have to ask for an itemised bill, nothing forthcoming unless pushed for. It's a pay cash, no tax country, always was, but they still retire on decent EU pensions at 50 - 55 (67 soon in Northern Europe).

Never should have been allowed to join. John talks of Goldman Sachs making a killing out of the fixing the books to get them in...those bankers again!

Don't start me on RoC.

Bert · Post by **Bert** » Mon 26 Jan 2015 11:31 am

Interesting everyone has a downer on Greece! What about the 50% who don't have a job! Someone earlier in the thread said that the people have plenty of money can't see that with half the youth out of work! Surely there must be some sympathy for the common man, no matter where they live!

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Mon 26 Jan 2015 12:04 pm

Bert wrote:Interesting everyone has a downer on Greece! What about the 50% who don't have a job! Someone earlier in the thread said that the people have plenty of money can't see that with half the youth out of work! Surely there must be some sympathy for the common man, no matter where they live!

The 'common man' should have gone to the polls and voted for a non-corrupt form of government years ago - instead they've been suckered in to keeping the crooks in power - and this lot will prove to be the worst yet!

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Mon 26 Jan 2015 12:08 pm

Bert wrote:Interesting everyone has a downer on Greece! What about the 50% who don't have a job! Someone earlier in the thread said that the people have plenty of money can't see that with half the youth out of work! Surely there must be some sympathy for the common man, no matter where they live!

* I see Groucho has beat me to it, but anyway: -*

Yes, you're right of course.

It's always the people at the bottom of the pile who get dumped on!

And they have been encouraged by incompetent, corrupt politicians, who have effectively bought votes by cooking the books in order to pander to the electorate - as well as filling their own coffers. - But Hey! - they're politicians! - what else would you expect?

Having said that, they are all still happy to avoid paying their taxes if they can, and to retire at the infeasibly early age of 58*, while Germany are talking about raising their retirement age to 69 (from 67) and God only knows what the retirement age in the UK will eventually be.

They must all shoulder some responsibility.

* Ref: Forbes

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Mon 26 Jan 2015 12:20 pm

Yeah but I still maintain that if 50% of the adult working age population is unemployed - making the older workers stay on in work is not going to help. It's the young who need to get to work, learn the work ethic and help the economy - as it is they are a massive social problem and war will follow!

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Mon 26 Jan 2015 12:22 pm

Groucho wrote:...they are a massive social problem and war will follow!

It's being cheerful that keeps you going, isn't it?

Hedge-fund · Post by **Hedge-fund** » Mon 26 Jan 2015 12:30 pm

There will be some sabre rattling on both sides and then there will be an agreement on Greek debt (writing more of it off) which will keep them in the euro.

The Greek problem is a side issue. The main goal is to discourage the rest of the periphery from abandoning austerity and walking away from their debt. If that happens it will be game over for the EZ and its banks.

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Mon 26 Jan 2015 12:33 pm

Keithcaley wrote:
Groucho wrote:...they are a massive social problem and war will follow!
It's being cheerful that keeps you going, isn't it?

History tells us so....

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Mon 26 Jan 2015 6:10 pm

To be fair the Humphreys agreed that they were better off than most and were speaking of the plight of others. What is worrying is that if the EZ "bails out" Greece they will have to do so for the others, and who will pay. Most us here, however much we love and are committed to th TRNC are British citizens and taxpayers.

"'No Man is an Island'

No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

John Donne

Repent at Leisure · Post by **Repent at Leisure** » Tue 27 Jan 2015 3:37 am

Should the EU forgive any part of the Greek debt, the people who were robbed of a large percentage of their savings in Cyprus on the orders of the EU should have their money refunded immediately.

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Tue 27 Jan 2015 5:27 am

Repent at Leisure wrote:Should the EU forgive any part of the Greek debt, the people who were robbed of a large percentage of their savings in Cyprus on the orders of the EU should have their money refunded immediately.

....and there speaks a Bank Manager

- Not that I'm saying you're wrong!...

Retired · Post by **Retired** » Tue 27 Jan 2015 7:38 am

In the Telegraph this morning: Greece must repay €3.4bn to the International Monetary Fund in February and March. Tax revenues have collapsed as Greeks preempt what they hope will be a repeal of austerity taxes. “There is only €1.9bn left in the cash kitty, and the government has spending costs of $2.5bn coming up. Somebody needs to lend the country money soon.”

Busy days for Tspiros and Merkel.

RAZR63 · Post by **RAZR63** » Wed 28 Jan 2015 7:35 am

Why is Greece in trouble?

Greece was living beyond its means even before it joined the euro. After it adopted the single currency, public spending soared.

Public sector wages, for example, rose 50% between 1999 and 2007 - far faster than in most other eurozone countries. The government also ran up big debts paying for the 2004 Athens Olympics.

And while money flowed out of the government's coffers, its income was hit by widespread tax evasion. So, after years of overspending, its budget deficit - the difference between spending and income - spiralled out of control.

Moreover, much of the borrowing was concealed, as successive Greek governments sought to meet the 3%-of-GDP cap on borrowing that is required of members of the euro.

and the list goes on...... Probably goes back to when the Acropolis was built..

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Wed 28 Jan 2015 2:00 pm

RAZR63 wrote:Why is Greece in trouble?

Probably goes back to when the Acropolis was built..

Which they still owe me for!

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