Institutionalised theft - Girne Belediyesi

[erol]

The short story. Girne Belediyer is pumping air through the water pipes at massively high pressures and this air is registering on the water meter which is then being charged for as if it was water. That this really is happening is beyond any possible doubt. I have multiple video recordings of it happening. My average usage over the previous 9 years shows a clear and consistent pattern of usage. Since this problem started this usage now shows as being 3 to 4 times higher than this steady average over the previous 9 years and the cause is beyond any reasonable doubt air registering as if it was water.

For over two months now I have been trying to get the Beleydiyer to fix the problem so that it stops happening going forward and to correct the historic bills that are obviously not right. To date I have failed in this despite many visits to the Belediyer and paying 324.80 TL for a new meter

The simple truth is that the Belediyer is charging some people for air as if it were water. They must know this is happening. Yet my experience of trying to get them to fix the underlying problem, or agree a fair basis for delivery and or charging until such time as they can fix it or for amending previous bills that they know are not correct is one of delay, denial, lies, obfuscation and red tape. My experience to date is they simply try everything they can to force you to pay for something that you have never had or used and that they know you have never had and never used.

In any sane environment this would be seen and accepted for what it is, theft. Forcing people to pay for something they have not had and have not used.

For a fuller detailed account of what has occurred to date, complete with links to youtube videos showing air coming out of my supply whilst at the very same time the water meter is registering it as being large amounts of water you can visit this link

http://www.visionmatters.co.uk/cyprus/watersaga.htm

[deputydawg]

Erol, you may wish to have a chat with the Consumer Association in Lefkosa who have a good track record of aggressively and quickly sorting out these frustrating problems. There was at one time, and it may still be the case, a local representative operating from the Olive Tree Restaurant in Girne.

[erol]

Erol, you may wish to have a chat with the Consumer Association in Lefkosa who have a good track record of aggressively and quickly sorting out these frustrating problems. There was at one time, and it may still be the case, a local representative operating from the Olive Tree Restaurant in Girne.

Thanks for that and I will certainly be getting in touch with them as soon as I can. If anyone has any contact details, address, phone number or email please do let me know.

I am now at the stage where for me this is no longer simply just about my own problem and getting that resolved. This is happening systematically to many many people, some of which are more 'isolated' and 'vulnerable' and less able to pay such extortion without real hardship than I am and it has to be confronted and exposed and dealt with on a permanent basis for everyone as far as I am concerned. I know that may be nothing but a wild idealistic dream, given the realities of North Cyprus but so help me I intend do whatever I can to force the Girne Beleydiyer to behave responsibly and fairly to this issue on a generic basis for all.

[Mel7348]

Thanks for the info. My water bill last month was over twice the normal minimum usage that have been paying for years.
Erol, whereabouts are you?. I live on the edge of the Old Turkish Quarter in Girne.
Previously we had a low water pressure problem, now it appears its the other way round.
will ask my TC neighbours if they have noticed anything, we are all ordinary domestic consumption no swimming pools or irrigation systems that could be blamed.

[erol]

Thanks for the info. My water bill last month was over twice the normal minimum usage that have been paying for years.
Erol, whereabouts are you?. I live on the edge of the Old Turkish Quarter in Girne.
Previously we had a low water pressure problem, now it appears its the other way round.
will ask my TC neighbours if they have noticed anything, we are all ordinary domestic consumption no swimming pools or irrigation systems that could be blamed.

I am in upper Girne, just the Girne side of the bypass and near the Ezic Chicken junction. Just as soon as I can I will be writing a letter, getting it translated into Turkish and posting it in ever increasingly expanding areas surrounding my house. The letter will lay out what is happening to me, warn others that it may be happening to them and asking them to contact me if they suspect it is happening to them as well.

Any info you get Mel about problems in your area as well would be most welcome.

[philyesil]

SIMPLE FIX!.
If an air vent valve is installed on the belediye side of your water metre, all the in bound air willflow up the pipe to the vent valve and escape. To do this it is best to speak with the belediye and explain what the probelm is and get them to agree to the installation. We had a bill for 200 tonnes of water when the house was empty and only using a max of 15 tonnes / month. The hose pipe would launch itself into the air when the tap was turned on, as if it was connected to a compressor.
The cost of the valve is minimal. My mobile number is 0533 8630425.

[erol]

SIMPLE FIX!.
If an air vent valve is installed on the belediye side of your water metre, all the in bound air willflow up the pipe to the vent valve and escape. To do this it is best to speak with the belediye and explain what the probelm is and get them to agree to the installation. We had a bill for 200 tonnes of water when the house was empty and only using a max of 15 tonnes / month. The hose pipe would launch itself into the air when the tap was turned on, as if it was connected to a compressor.
The cost of the valve is minimal. My mobile number is 0533 8630425.

I have spoken to the Belediyer, many times. It is now two months on from when I first became aware of the problems. For tow months I have explained what the problem is, paid for their inspector to come and inspect the problem, had them fit an air vent valve on their side of the meter, which did NOT solve the problem, then paid for a new meter entirely had that fitted in addition to the air vent valve and it is STILL registering air and charging it as if it is water, though now with the new meter I have had to pay up front and in advance for the priveledge of being charged 3-5 times over what I am actually using.

You can see this in the videos I have made AFTER they installed the 'air vent valve' and AFTER they have put in the new meter which I had to pay 324TL for in the links below

http://youtu.be/vpJjeO8lbHQ - AFTER the air vent 'solution' and STILL charging air as if it was water.

http://youtu.be/S5hXFqREl2k - AFTER the air vent 'solution' AND the new meter I had to pay for and now have to charge up via pre paid card and it is STILL charging air as if it were water.

After two months of trying to sort this out with the Belediyer , after a 'air vent was fitted and after paying out an additional 324TL for a new meter I am no further forward than I was when this whole thing started. Today when I wnet in to explain once more that even with the new meter I am still being charged with air I was told that is impossible, even though I have SEEN it with my own eyes and have it on video (see above) and to go away. Only another recourse to the Mayor led to them saying they will send out an ispector tomorrow. This is exactly where I started from 2 months ago when I first reported the problem.

The air vent may well solve the issue for some but where I am it simply is not doing so. The air pressure is massive, it is not just a case of when the turn the mains on there is air at first but once that clears it is just water. If the mains in on for say 8 hours is rotates from just air, to air and water and then water back to air again CONSTANTLY for the entire 8 hours. Just look at the first video link above where I push a stick into the air valve and see for your self how even with the air gushing out out the valve that pressure is such that the meter STILL is going round and yet no water is comming out of the tap.

[erol]

(ps all of the above in message 6 was actualy laid out in the link in the original post but I can totally understand why you might not have bothered reading it before posting your 'simple fix')

[music man]

As a retired engineer, I have looked into this problem. Firstly avoid any post meter devices that claim to eradicate air, they do not work.Is there any way that you measure the pressure? I.E. attach a pool filter gauge or footpump gauge. There are some pre meter devices that may work depending on the pressure. There does seem to be an exceptional amount of air and pressure. I will have to look at your video again but there should be an isolation valve before the meter. If so, try closing it untill there is a 'normal' flow rate. this may allow more air to vent before passing through the meter. Unfortunately there is little appetite for training here. I spent 40 years in the game and seen some unbelievable installations in the Uk. This country takes some beating though.When i sat in the Kibtek office in town to change my billing details I spotted more 20 departures from the IEE electrical regs. Says it all really. I have witnessed a Kibtek 'engineer' sticking a 50mm cable across a fuseholder because the 80amp fuse kept blowing.Please keep me updated.

[Mel7348]

Erol- will report back .

[erol]

As a retired engineer, I have looked into this problem. Firstly avoid any post meter devices that claim to eradicate air, they do not work.Is there any way that you measure the pressure? I.E. attach a pool filter gauge or footpump gauge. There are some pre meter devices that may work depending on the pressure. There does seem to be an exceptional amount of air and pressure. I will have to look at your video again but there should be an isolation valve before the meter. If so, try closing it untill there is a 'normal' flow rate. this may allow more air to vent before passing through the meter. Unfortunately there is little appetite for training here. I spent 40 years in the game and seen some unbelievable installations in the Uk. This country takes some beating though.When i sat in the Kibtek office in town to change my billing details I spotted more 20 departures from the IEE electrical regs. Says it all really. I have witnessed a Kibtek 'engineer' sticking a 50mm cable across a fuseholder because the 80amp fuse kept blowing.Please keep me updated.

Thank you for your suggestions. To be honest I am not sure I have the kit or know how to get an actual pressure reading. The idea about trying to partialy close the mains in tap just before the meter (its like a lever that goes 90 degrees) makes sense to me and I will certainly give it a go and report back.

[erol]

Erol- will report back .

Thanks , look forward to it.

[philyesil]

Erol, sorry I didn't notice your linkat the bottom of the post.
This is exactly the same problem we experienced but the pressure seems to be alot less in your case.

Our property is close to Lefke and is the highest house in the village.
What happens here in KKTC is generally this. Unlike the UK there isn't enough water to go around. The water is pumped by the belidiye from underground wells into the circular concrete water depo's which are everywhere here. The depo fills up with water and as it does so generally the valve is in the closed position on the depo. When the concil employee goes and opens the depo valve, water rushes into the water pipes and the air is then forced and compressed by the water pressure in the pipe. The water get saturated with air and the air has to escape somewhere from the pipe and it is infront of of the water which continues to fill the pipes. The air finds an escape in the form of anyones water meter which is switched on and the air blows through the water meter at great pressure giving a vastly exagerated reading on the clock. the air continues into your water pipes and probably escapes from the system at the ballcock.
If your water is turned off at this time, the air will find another escaoe route, probably your neighbours pipe work.

I have seen the two video's in your link but I can see why the air vent valve isn't doing a good job.

If the air vent pipe is attached to a 2 metre length of pipe, which rises up just before the meter, at the elboe or t joint, the air has a much better chance to searate from the water and escape upwards and out through the vent. It may be necessary for the council to install other vent pipes around the pipe network to solve the problem completey. As I say this happened to us and we sorted it. I did the work myself and basixcally told them what i was going to do. At todays prices in our area, it would have been a bill over 900tl for a house which uses 15 tonnes when occupied, not empty! Hope this helps. My phone number is on my first message.

[erol]

I understand that when the supply is turned off and on there will be more issues with air in the pipes and this registering on peoples meters. However we have lived here now for 9 years. For nine years the mains is turned off and turned on at different times. For nine years probably some percentage of our bill relating to usage has been because of air, but it has always been a small percentage. What happened in the month of July is something different and can be seen from the chart below showing our bills for the last 24 months.



Month 23 on the chart above is July this year and when I became aware of the problem. For month 24 the problem is still there but having become aware of it we were keeping the mains turned off and only trying to fill it in the periods where only water was comming fromthe pipes and not air, but even doing that the months bill is still significantly higher than our average over the previous 24 months. From thursday the 24th of this month we now have the new meter that we had to pay for and were told would solve the problem. We have also been asked to NOT turn it off till they come and do an inspection again on Monday comming. So far between Thursday morning and now (saturday 25th aug) around 2pm the meter has registered 12.2 tons of water. We have one lower tank that is 2 tons capacity and a hight tank that is one ton of capacity. Neither were empty at the point the new meter was installed but they were low. So lets be generous ans say 3 tons accounts for them being filled (both tanks are full currently). In addition to this we have done 2 loads of washing, used dishwasher twice, showered and used the toliet. That can not possible account for the remaining 9.2 tons.

There is something going on. The air problem is NOT just for say 20 or 30 minutes when the mains flow first starts. If the mains is on for say nine hours for the first 4 or 5 hours we are getting a constant cycle of air, air and water, water and then air again. It does seem to settled down eventually but only after 4 or 5 hours on the mains being on and even then you STILL get occasional pockets of air. It also seems to get bad again for a hour leading up to the water going off again.

However the REAL problem in my opinion is not the technical aspects of how and why air is registering as water usage. The REAL problem in my view is the ATTITUDE of the Belediyer in responding to these problems and issues when they occur.

[erol]

To date all the Beleydiyer has so far tried everything it can to deny there is any problem, constantly trying to insist my bill for month 23 on the chart above is correct and the usage is normal and there is no problem and only relenting after the most insistent efforts by me and presenting my case to the Mayor directly and in person. Under this pressuer they agreed to ammend month 23 bill and then reluctantly after yet more time and effort and pressure from me and another visit to the mayor month 24 as well.

As far finding a solution to the ongoing problem they have put in a 'valve' that has not solved it. Forced me to buy a new meter at a cost of 324 TL, that not only has not solved the issue but now means I have to pay in advance for my water and thus reduced to near zero any chance I might have of having the erros corrected after the fact. After all this they have gone back to the start again, now once more denying that there is any problem, trying to insist my usage shown on the meter is 'normal' and accusing me of 'just not wanting to pay anything for my water'.

That is the real problem in my view. This kind of thing is undoubtedly being done to other people, more vulnerable people than me, in my opinion. They are being forced to pay bills that are not correct by the Belediyer and this is the real problem I think