Bankrupt Site ?

[charlie]

We bought a villa 8 years ago and never had the joy of moving in. In court last year the judge made the site bankrupt and that was all we were told by our "lawyer" We have heard nothing since, no paperwork, no facts, no figures. Is this the normal way ? All we get from our "lawyer" is the good old Cyprus shrug. Does anyone know what the next step should be please ?

[johnny1]

what do you mean you never moved in?
have you paid for the house?who moved in?

[WotNoDeeds]

Typical response in Cyprus "what the next step should be please" get a better "lawer" if there is such a thing in Cyprus ??

[Keithcaley]

I'm sure someone on here will be able to at least give you some more information, as it would have been in the news here, but it would help to know:

The name of the Builder (& developer, if different)
The name of the Site
The location of the site
Sheet number and plot number (normally, an appendix to the sales contract)
If you were given a Kochan (title deed) with the name of the current landowner on it, as part of your sales contract, what is the name of the landowner?
Was the contract registered at the Land Registry?

...and just for interest, the name of your 'lawyer' & the Estate Agent that you used - if you don't want to post the names on here, you could PM me, or email me at keithcaley@yahoo.com - I would respect your wishes.

Don't give up hope!

[Lovelife]

You could try Marian Stokes of the Home Buyers Pressure Group, she is a lady with a wealth of knowledge when it comes to property problems. the website is http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/ She used to have an open 'surgery' on Tuesday at the Pia Bella, I don't know if she still does this.

Good Luck.
LL

[charlie]

No we never got to move and it was fully paid for. Keith, if you speak to Julie she can let you know details etc. Its Phil and Lesley that lived in Baspinar. Hope you are both keeping well.

[Keithcaley]

Righto! I'll have a word when I see her on Monday.

Would you be averse to the details being posted on here?

There may be an owners' support group or some such that you could contact.

It sounds like a really rough deal, and 'There but for the Grace of God'...

I'll be in touch.

Keep your chin up, Keith.

[charlie]

Hi Keith. Not bothered at all about being posted on here. Just looking for confirmation from someone to give us written proof of the judges ruling. Thanks.

[Keithcaley]

OK, I'll be seeing her this afternoon for my Turkish Lesson (YES, I'm still learning Turkish! - NO, I'm not fluent yet! )

[Robert157]

Contact Pembe at citizens advice cyprus , she will know what's going on , she has helped lots of people regarding property issues

[Robert157]

Contact Pembe at citizens advice cyprus , she will know what's going on , she has helped lots of people regarding property issues

[charlie]

Thanks for recommending the Pembe. Does she have an email add ? We are now living back in the UK . Thanks again.

[Robert157]

Hi Charlie , it's info@citizensadvicecyprus.com
Very helpful speaks turkish and english ,knows the system very well

[charlie]

Hi Robert, Thanks for the info on citizens advice. I sent an email but have to fill in an online form and pay £50.00 to get started !!

[gillken]

Take your papetwork and passport to the Tapu...they will be able to tell you the situation...you should not have to pay as you aren't requesting anything formal.
Do not employ advocate until you know the situation..I am going through similar...
Advocates will make you their next meal ticket
If you have registration that predates court orders you have protection.
You simply need to inform the courts ...email me..ednaanderton @yahoo.co.uk

[the butlers wife]

Charlie,


The CAB in Cyprus does not receive any government help but has to maintain an office, staff, telephones, heating lighting etc. I am saying this to explain why Pembe asks for a £50.00 per year donation. For this money you can visit as many times as you need during the year and receive advice. If she thinks you need a lawyer, she will find one who charges low rates and not expat rates. For the help and advice she gives £50 is worth it.

I do not work for Pembe or the CAB but have received advice from her.


The butlers wife

[kaiserphil]

OK, I'll be seeing her this afternoon for my Turkish Lesson (YES, I'm still learning Turkish! - NO, I'm not fluent yet! )

So, Keith, did you learn anything?

Not sure what a bankrupt site is. Presume that the developer/builder/landowner has gone bankrupt?

The lawyer must be a completely useless skate. Attempts to help by explanation is something, but the dreaded shrug is useless.

[jazzdolly]

£50 per year seems like good value to me!

[Keithcaley]

OK, I'll be seeing her this afternoon for my Turkish Lesson (YES, I'm still learning Turkish! - NO, I'm not fluent yet! )

So, Keith, did you learn anything?

Not sure what a bankrupt site is. Presume that the developer/builder/landowner has gone bankrupt?

The lawyer must be a completely useless skate. Attempts to help by explanation is something, but the dreaded shrug is useless.

Hi kaiserphil (& apologies to Phil / charlie !)

I was running a bit late last Monday, and then had to collect my other half from the airport immediately afterwards, so I didn't get a chance to discuss it at all

We'll see how I get on today!

[gillken]

1. If there are mems being placed over the rights of a registered property the owner of the kojan (landowner)needs to confirm that there are pre-registered properties rights that require honouring. He must appear in court to tell the judge himself.
(Landowner may not be willing to do this as the more properties in the auction the better for him as any financial excess of auctioned properties is returned to landowner who's name is on kojan)

Therefore you need to notify courts via an application. I have been given prices from a few hundred pounds to over £20k....lol...

[gillken]

I am loosing the will to reply....75% of my posts seem to get lost...???
The Tapu will have all the details you are looking for.
They do not have a legal department therefore when a registered property is caught up in the action of memourandums the Tapu have no authority to override the Judges decision...
Therefore the registered owner has to take action.
Advocates will advise you to take out a memourandum. DO NOT DO THIS...Your registration is the best protection you have.
You need to apply to each court case for each memourandum...attaching yourself to the case with an injunction stopping the sale of your property.
Or you can choose to allow your property to be sold at auction...As your registration comes prior to memourandums you will be first in line for compensation.

[gillken]

Registration confusion.
It was common to be able to own both a registration and a memourandum...Since (I think) 2012...things have changed.
Once you take out a memorandum you have to cancel your registration.
Some of the older cases whom think they still have both have actually had their registration cancelled by order of the judge.
The Tapu again will be able to advise you of your situation.
I cannot stress enough before employing an advocate go to Tapu with passport and registration paperwork. All the info is held by them.

[gillken]

Auction
Some people seem to think if they are living in the property they will not loose their home WRONG
The Tapu will value the site...If they think the site will be able to bring in enough money without the need to sell properties with owners in they will not evict anyone.
But if the valuation is too low to command much needed compensation homesowners will get an eviction notice.

[charlie]

Does anyone know how I can get in touch with the court registration office please ? I have been in contact with Munir Akil, our lawyer and he says that because he was not part of the bankruptcy case (even though he was our lawyer for 3 years + ) they will not give him the information I am asking for. Thanks Phil.

[Keithcaley]

charlie,

I spoke to her, but she knew no more than you have already stated on here.

She said that you spoke to her husband.

Did he give you any advice?

You still haven't told us any of the details requested in post (4), so we have no idea who is involved, or the relationship between them, or the date of the court case.

I think that the advice that gilken has given you is sound, and in the absence of any further information, I don't see how we can expand on that...

[Robert157]

Any doubt on law issues , please contact cac , it's ok having taking advice from expats , but speaking perfect turkish and. English and being para legal trained and getting inside information on the latest news , cac should always be your first port of call

[gillken]

It really dose not matter whom you choose to pay. Your chosen advisor will request payment + search fees...They will gain their information at the.Tapu office whom hold all the information.
Go personally and informally with prove of registration and your passport...It will cost nothing..And you will be told the truth.. Alternatively simply pay an advocate or CAC to do the work for you.
Which area Tapu Office are you under?

[charlie]

I flew over to the TRNC last week called at the Tapu and the site is bankrupt.A very nice man I know checked the computer list and confirmed even asking if I wanted to speak to Mr. Denktas. Saved a good 500 quid not asking my "lawyer"! So all the other owners of a property on Marina Villas site can, like us, kiss goodbye to there dosh !! Over 20 owners, all down the sh*^er ! The confusion was bought on by the developer telling another owner that there was a small problem but they were sorting it out. I did try to get a list of all the owners so we could have got together, employed one half decent "lawyer" and perhaps then we may have had half a chance. 20 + different owners being told different things by different "lawyers" was only going to end in a loss for the owners but a profit for them.

[terry2366]

Who was the developer / landowner??

[charlie]

Donaghy and Heath originally then taken over by Partners Abroad.

[£eagle]

The decision in the recent Kulaksis 5 case may have a bearing on your problem. The site becoming "bankrupt" must mean that the developer has become insolvent, whether an individual or a company. All the creditors, banks buyers and trade, will then want to fight for the assets with secured creditors (mortgage holders) coming first. If these are so called stealth mortgages they may be invalid (that is the result of the Kulaksis case). Buyers would then be in a very strong position to get their titles. It all depends on the facts but the situation is not necessarily hopeless (yet).

The Leagle

[Olly]

Hi Charlie
Out of interest.
Were Donaghy and Heath/Partners Abroad the Estate Agents?
Your contract should name the Builder and Landowner.
Where is the site of Marina Villas?
Someone will have more information and may be able to help.

[gillken]

Hi Charlie

Did the Tapu confirm any memourandum? Do you have registration?

Whatever the situation is there is a solution. But each advocate has their method and reasoning on how to resolve this. I am in the same situation. I have been treading the pavements of both Famagusta Lefcosia and Girne!!!

Each advocate has a different solution and a different price. But each advocate has given advice when talking through the rip off price about to be given.

Everything is based on "dates"....

If you purchased prior to any memourandum debts bankruptcy etc you are protected.

You MUST NOT under any circumstances be persuaded to take out a memourandum. This will
1. Cost a lot of money and take years in court.
2.You will loose everything as your dates will change to the last in the que of creditors to be repaid. With your purchase date you are the first creditors.

I do have more info..but all depends on your situation..ednaanderton@yahoo.co.uk

[gillken]

£eagles
Talking about the Kulaksis 5 case...There is a good reason why no appeal to the December hearing has yet been made.
It is a tactical move on the side of the Kulaksis 5 case.
It will happen in September.