greek bailout part two

[silverfir]

On the other hand, since two bailouts from the troika have failed to put Greece back on the road to recovery, it would seem right that they want some guarantees that Greece will put it's house in order and be able to pay it's debts if they get a third bailout. Others may feel that Greece and it's economy are now being dictated to by an unelected body called the euro zone. Is this the shape of things to come for the whole of Europe? Discuss

[jacob]

One has to put aside personal feeling about the Greeks and look at the bigger picture. We are seeing the real Germany, the real Schauble and Merkel.

We Brits are in what was the EU, we are now entering the USSG.

I will be voting to get out in our much awaited referendum, which of course will be controlled by the above mentioned pair of dictators.

I despaired at the outcome.

[trueblue]

Jacob, being a German, I really would be interested to learn what the two "S" stand for. One, I guess, is "States", but the other one?

[Groucho]

Jacob, being a German, I really would be interested to learn what the two "S" stand for. One, I guess, is "States", but the other one?

Super State?

[jacob]

Sovereign, Stolen, Swiped, etc etc. or change the S to an O.......OCCUPIED.

Groucho, spot on.

[terry2366]

Most of my friends in Germany are as pissed off as we are with immigration and giving money to everyone else. They are unhappy with Merkel.

[jacob]

Terry, when is she up for re-election? I hope your many friends get rid of her. I do know that a lot of Germans also despair at the treatment of Greece.

[erol]

Interesting (well I found it interesting) documentary here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLB3uu1IXM0

It is well over an hour long but I found it worth the effort of watching. For me it does offer an alternative perspective than the more dominant narratives we tend to hear in the 'mainstream' media I think.

[turtle]

What actually is the point of the EU anyway ?

[jacob]

In my opinion it is for the sole purpose of the Germans, they rule Europe, something they have been trying to achieve for a century. The Euro is a failed project, the Germans expect the peoples of the med to be little Germans, they are a power crazy race.

[Leither]

They lied through their teeth to gain entry and south Cyprus did exactly the same we are being played by unelected morons from Brussels the sooner the system collapses the better,why should people who work until 65 plus subsidys people who can retire at 40 plus rip off their system,they are thieves and as long as I"m alive they will remain in my opinon THIEVES.

[elizabeth]

In my opinion it is for the sole purpose of the Germans, they rule Europe, something they have been trying to achieve for a century. The Euro is a failed project, the Germans expect the peoples of the med to be little Germans, they are a power crazy race.

First time through tanks, this time through banks

[erol]

... they are a power crazy race.

Well the video I linked to above was made by a German. I do also feel compelled I am afraid to say that I find the attribution of negative attributes (power crazy) to an entire race, er how to say this ? , er somewhat racist ? The addition of a 'emoticon' does little to change that view for me either.

Putting on not just my 'tin hat' but a full set of tin body armor, I think one could plausibly suggest that if you are looking for nations with a historic propensity to want to 'rule the world' you could do far worse than look at the British Empire , which at its zenith, held sway over 1/5 of the worlds entire population and almost 1/4 of its land mass. Then again I do not think this historic fact justifies labeling Britions on mass as 'power crazy' race either.

And whilst it is a bit 'off topic' I may as well mention it here as well, whilst I am fully 'tin' suited up. I found the following documentary interesting and thought provoking

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... t-and-loss

[jacob]

No one can deny they falsified their 'books' with the help of Goldman Sachs, however, the Germans knew exactly what was going on, so did the French. They were happily taken into the 'euro club'.

Thieves is harsh.

It is also not true that the Greeks retire at 40.

We are all entitled to our opinions though.

[turtle]

Out of the 28 nations in the EU there is only a handful that prop up the rest ?

Now you may say that is what wealthy countries should do and that is a matter of opinion but there is a time limit that these countries will put up with this kind of economics.
You have to ask yourself countries like Estonia, Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania et al are all countries that will never be industrialized nations making a net contribution for the common good so what is the point ?

Greece is just a basket case ?

[mikelapta]

I have a part solution;there are 100's of Greek islands just off the Turkish mainland,thousands of miles from their motherland,must cost many euros to maintain....why doesn't Greece sell to Turkey?

[turtle]

Thousands of miles from their motherland ?

Turkey would probably only be interested in Rhodes & Kos which are about 25miles off the Turkish coast the rest are worthless.

[mikelapta]

BUy 2 rest free !!!!

[Groucho]

I have a part solution;there are 100's of Greek islands just off the Turkish mainland,thousands of miles from their motherland,must cost many euros to maintain....why doesn't Greece sell to Turkey?

Mike I've told a thousand million times... don't exaggerate!

The world is not that big.... and oh - what makes you think mainland Greece maintains the small islands? I mean have you been to these islands? Do they look maintained to you?

The cartoon should feature two Greeks in a German restaurant in the cause of accuracy but you get the idea...

[Steve C]

The solution could be something like this:

It is a slow day in a little Greek Village.
The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted.
Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.
On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village,
stops at the local hotel and lays a 100 Euro note on the desk, telling the hotel
owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night.
The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked
upstairs, the hotelier grabs the 100 Euro note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.
The butcher takes the 100 Euro note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer.
The pig farmer takes the 100 Euro note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel.
The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the 100 Euro note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverner
The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the
bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit.
The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the 100 Euro note.
The hotel proprietor then places the 100 Euro note back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything.
At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, picks up the 100 Euro note,
states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town.
No one produced anything.
No one earned anything.
However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with
a lot more optimism.
And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how the Greeks will pay off their
Euro zone debts.

[Keithcaley]

The solution could be something like this...

You're lagging behind a bit (by about 5 months!) ... see Greek Bailout

[Groucho]

The solution could be something like this...

You're lagging behind a bit (by about 5 months!) ... see Greek Bailout

Only the sums have changed - i.e. got bigger - which does bode well does it?

They need a rule - if they have more than a certain amount on deposit - only taxpayers can draw funds from banks....

[erol]

The solution could be something like this:

I do realise this is a humorous 'tale' and at the risk of coming across as a boring old fart, this is actually exactly how money 'works', not just in Greece but everywhere. The idea that 'no one produced anything and no one earned anything' is also false. The butcher had already produced 100 euro's worth of 'meat and meat services' for the hotelier. And so on down the chain. If you replace the "German Tourist" with a Bank (and it could be a Greek bank, German bank, French bank) from which the hotelier borrows 100 Euros, then you have exactly what happens in the real world. What is more when the hotelier borrows 100 Euro from the bank, the bank simply creates a brand new 100 euros, literally out of thin air, as a ledger entry in their computers. When they give the hotelier the 100 euro loan, the total amount of euros in existence (as a 'ledger entry' in a computer, not as physical notes and coins) increases by 100 Euros. Once the money circulates and the hotelier pays back the 100 euro to the bank, that 100 euro is then 'destroyed' again (again as a ledger entry in a computer) and the total amount of euros in existence reduces by 100 Euro. However the hotelier will still owe the bank interest on that 100 Euros for however long it took to circulate the money and return it to the bank. In many ways if any player in the story can be accused of not having produced anything or earned anything it is the bank.

[jacob]

Time for me to exit this thread, it could have been interesting!

[Groucho]

Time for me to exit this thread, it could have been interesting!

I can see your pram from here!

[jacob]

Groucho you are missing my point, I think.

Dollies are not an issue.[/i]

[rick bald]

Thousands of miles from their motherland ?

Turkey would probably only be interested in Rhodes & Kos which are about 25miles off the Turkish coast the rest are worthless.

Too late - bought Kos yesterday!!!