Are the TC's about to sell the ex-pats down the river?

wanderer · Post by **wanderer** » Sat 15 Aug 2015 8:00 pm

President Akinci said.

"Our expat friends should not be concerned -there property rights will be safeguarded-No one will become the victim to this problem."

He then added,

"They have to understand that the land they are living on belongs to someone else.So the best way to resolve this is through compensation "

Turkish title owned pre 1974 undisputed title possibly
The other two types a big question mark
So they are leasehold and a rent to the government who pay the titleholders
farmland one rate
Bricks and mortar ie vacated property another dearer rate
In the IPC settlements they talk of the rental value plus property value of the property since 1974
Denktash is talking about property as of 1960 because as of 1974 TC's were owning far less this would govern the lease rate per
squ Meter
Just a thought
because someone is going to pay

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sat 15 Aug 2015 8:22 pm

If my developer took out a stealth mortgage on the land my property rests upon and refuses to remove it and issue the kocan, is he not the 'owner' responsible for paying the compensation?

wanderer · Post by **wanderer** » Sat 15 Aug 2015 8:53 pm

Tom the stealth mortgages are the problem for North but more South so the government pays off the bank and gives you clear lease title
The South are in trouble with the Troika on this for bail out so will the North if it all becomes onx

Paul 50 · Post by **Paul 50** » Sat 15 Aug 2015 9:15 pm

Talking to a Turkish Cypriot today and he said they have been talking for 40 years and have not been able to agree. How can they agree when the GCs are taught in school that the whole island belongs to them and no one else!!!! He also said when (or if) the referendum comes he would vote yes to a dual federation, but he knows the GC will not!

Maisiemoo · Post by **Maisiemoo** » Sat 15 Aug 2015 10:21 pm

The Guardian of Turkish Cypriot properties in the South is owed approx 6.2 million euros in back rent, properties are being rented out to people who didn't even leave a property in the North or are living in a considerably more expensive property than they had before the intervention of 1974.( All the information comes from The Guardian). Too many problems to sort out both sides, the courts will be clogged up for years.

guru · Post by **guru** » Sat 15 Aug 2015 11:27 pm

message deleted

guru · Post by **guru** » Sat 15 Aug 2015 11:36 pm

Ragged Robin wrote:In English (and International?) law if one buy's land or property one "steps into the shoes" of the seller - ie he takes on any rights and obligations of the seller to the property. If an expat buys from a Turkish Cypriot "exchange" property (ie where the seller was granted the property in replacement on the points system for what he lost in the South) surely the expat has also bought the rights the Turkish Cypriot seller had to property in the South? Otherwise the Greek Cypriot would benefit twice : from the exchange property HE got in the South (which could well be more valuable) and compensation for his "lost" property in the NOrth. May be difficult to work of course as the original owners on either side may not be traceable - but I hope it is a factor being taken into account in the negotiation?

Agree with you RR, buying exchange land in the north should mean you also acquire the points value of the land given up in the south. If compensation IS deemed payable on the land in the north, then the land value in the south should be used to offset that compensation. As far as I know, the TC was awarded exchange land in the north on a points value and had to surrender his deeds in the south to the TRNC government.

Although I don't think the GC would benefit twice in the event of a settlement, the newly (to be) set up property commission may decide compensation is due from buyers of the exchange land in the north. My fear is that the TRNC government, as deed holders of the property given up in the south may attempt to play a crafty, keep the money, and not pass it on to the buyer of the exchange land to put towards the compensation. If they try that then I think they are at risk of a challenge through the EU courts.

As for Mr Akinci saying that we must realise the land we are living on belongs to someone else, well we do, but I hope Mr Akinci will also realise that the TRNC government was complicit in encouraging the sale and purchase of GC land and properties. As I said in an earlier post, the TRNC government gave buyers permission to purchase, they allowed whatever TC the GC land was given to in 1974 to sell it on for profit or develop it, gave planning permission and building control consent, took money in the form of land registry taxes and KDV from buyer and seller, issued title deeds, and continue to take property and council taxes. Therefore, they and/or Turkey needs to put their hands in their pockets too!!!

Also agree with Groucho though, that a benefit of a settlement would give people ‘clean’ title which should hopefully add value and legitimacy.

Art · Post by **Art** » Sun 16 Aug 2015 5:37 am

Tom,

I think the answer to your question is yes and maybe the latest speculation will encourage some builders to remove the mortgage and transfer Title. Alternativley they may have to fork out loads of compensation especially if it's a big site.

ardstrawray · Post by **ardstrawray** » Sun 16 Aug 2015 7:01 am

Art wrote:Tom,

I think the answer to your question is yes and maybe the latest speculation will encourage some builders to remove the mortgage and transfer Title. Alternativley they may have to fork out loads of compensation especially if it's a big site.

They will not pay anyway.

Paul 50 · Post by **Paul 50** » Sun 16 Aug 2015 7:48 am

If their like our builder/land owner they have made their money and have gone back to Turkey and don't give a damn what happens here now and wont be touchable for compensation

Art · Post by **Art** » Sun 16 Aug 2015 9:25 am

The government could freeze the builders assets and force them to pay through the sale of the assets.

I am however enclined to agree and I can only see the expats and other foreigners paying out any agreed compensation as the TC's will not pay unless they are forced to do so through the legal system.

It's a potential minefield.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sun 16 Aug 2015 10:32 am

Further to my original question and your helpful replies. I have been 'advised' it is the mortgage holder who is responsible. In my case, the Koop (TRNC Government bank). Interesting and yet another instance of Presidential duck 'm dive, bob 'n weave, not me guv will ensue despite his affirmations of 'security' for expat purchasers.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 16 Aug 2015 3:08 pm

This sounds like it will develop into a farce !
What will happen if the Bank has the deeds as a builder has borrowed against said deeds and has fled back to Turkey never to be seen or heard from again?
The Bank will then own them deeds and would have to stand any compensation costs, but surely EU law would not allow them to sell that property from under the feet of the "owner" who has bought and paid for that property in good faith ?

Dalartokat · Post by **Dalartokat** » Sun 16 Aug 2015 3:30 pm

Small thought, if it comes to people having to pay compensation for the properties they live in and people cannot pay, won't pay and decide to put their properties up for sale instead and want to leave NC, will they end up paying anyway because the sale will not got through until compensation is paid on the property. Or if the property is proven it belongs to GC, will the GC just get it anyway because the owner could not/would not pay the compensation.

Could you potentially end with people leaving their properties and the island ends up again with lots of properties that cannot be sold and the new buyer has to pick up the tab on the purchase price. A bit like the landline telephone scenario that all debts have to be paid before a landline can be connected.

Does this thought make sense?

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Sun 16 Aug 2015 4:24 pm

Just loved the statement that Mr Akinci saying that we must realize the land we are living on belongs to someone else!!! Just how much land did the TRNC take away in 74 then and was it all their land or "Did it belong to someone else"? The situation is crazy and could not be sorted out by compensation alone - there will have to be give and take on both sides and the sooner the GC realizes that a line must be drawn in the sand on a set date and then that is it - the sooner there will be any settlement. The only people who will make money out of any settlement are the solicitors on both sides and they will be so busy spending their money that the cases will never get to court to be heard.

It is a very long road ahead of everyone but everyone has to wait to see what the plan is before even a single vote is cast - without a majority vote nothing will happen anyway and there must be a good 60% of TC's who live on land that "Belonged to somebody else". So they would vote to have to pay compensation to stay there? I think not.

rocking · Post by **rocking** » Sun 16 Aug 2015 4:33 pm

All I know is if the GCs and TCs cannot agree on things like sport and cheese. GCs will not allow coaches over here yet Girne full of theirs, what chance of what they call "settlement". I feel sure Akinci would like to tell his in-laws he will solve their problem. With all the Edmonds the GCs put on table, why doesn't Akinci pick up his papers and tell them to "piss off"........

rocking · Post by **rocking** » Sun 16 Aug 2015 4:33 pm

All I know is if the GCs and TCs cannot agree on things like sport and cheese. GCs will not allow coaches over here yet Girne full of theirs, what chance of what they call "settlement". I feel sure Akinci would like to tell his in-laws he will solve their problem. With all the Edmonds the GCs put on table, why doesn't Akinci pick up his papers and tell them to "piss off"........

rocking · Post by **rocking** » Sun 16 Aug 2015 4:36 pm

Demands not Edmonds, apologies

Caveboy · Post by **Caveboy** » Mon 17 Aug 2015 6:21 am

What will happen to the people who lease property in Karaman ??? The TRNC Government ostensibly "owns" them ??? There have been quite a few Southside cars parked up and people walking around with files of maps etc in recent weeks.....

Dalartokat · Post by **Dalartokat** » Mon 17 Aug 2015 8:07 am

This has been posted in Kibris Postasi, a warning not to deal with property issues yourselves.

http://www.kpdailynews.com/index.php/ca ... LOCAL_NEWS

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Mon 17 Aug 2015 8:11 am

Please correct me if I am wrong - I know you will anyway! Was not Karaman originally a Greek mud mining village that the Greeks population actually abandoned anyway due to huge health issues? That was pre 74?

johnny1 · Post by **johnny1** » Mon 17 Aug 2015 4:34 pm

brian 24 i think u got it spot on.
i do feel sorry for the turkish cypriots,because they dont know whats coming to them.they are heading into a trap.
do not think for one minute that gc are liking the tc..only a small number do.the gc want to rule and they will,they are not thinking for the good of everyone and the whole island..they think only for the own pockets....i think the way it is now is best

Binkey · Post by **Binkey** » Mon 17 Aug 2015 4:59 pm

The whole situation is incredibly complex. In our apartment block in Girne built on 'exchange land' we have a TC family, a mainland Turkish family and three ex-pat families. How on earth is one settlement going to cover that combination. One owner can't be treated any different from another under EU law. There are thousands of apartments in Girne alone it will take decades to sort out the mess if indeed it can be sorted.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Mon 17 Aug 2015 8:36 pm

waddo wrote:Please correct me if I am wrong - I know you will anyway! Was not Karaman originally a Greek mud mining village that the Greeks population actually abandoned anyway due to huge health issues? That was pre 74?

Waddo : I cannot correct or otherwise because all I know is rumour and I stress it is rumour, but in the 1990's I heard that Karaman had been abandoned by its Greek Cypriot population before 1974 because of the high incidence of bronchitis - and this was because is was tucked under the shadow of the Mountain and did not get enough sunlight particularly in winter! I hadnt heard about mud mining - indeed I am not even sure what it is - but it sounds as if the health problems could have been occupational. I have never heard of the expat population of Karaman having more health problems than their peers elsewhere in the Island, but that may be partly standards of living and hygiene or maybe they were just more used to lack of sunlight in winter.

More certainly the entire village was taken on by the TRNC Gvt. and properties leased to expatriates only (mainly British and German at that time) on the understanding that they renovated the properties and the village , and was the only place to my knowledge where that was done, which suggests there was something unusual about title and/or it was dilapidated than most, having been totally abandoned and for longer.

Nonetheless when the border was opened post 2004 a lot of Greek Cypriots did visit Karaman to see "their " properties and were not always made very welcome.

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Mon 17 Aug 2015 9:14 pm

From two information sites :

"Once an EOKA stronghold, it is now home to a varied foreign population from Europe and North America. The once dilapidated and derelict properties of Karaman were taken under the wing of the Ministry of Interior and Housing in 1979, and were given away for nominal amounts to foreigners on a lease basis, in return for their restoration. Leaseholders were also subject to rules and guidelines to keep the village’s originality when restoring property. In the 1980’s the Ministry of Tourism took over the running of Karaman and the rebuilding of the village as a whole, they also took over the development of infrastructure such as the electric, mains water, street lighting and roads."
................................................................

"Overlooked by the Gothic St. Hilarion Castle and set deep in the mountainside is the picturesque village of Karmi inhabited mostly by British and German expatriates.
Karaman village, situated up on the mountains, to the west of Kyrenia, was abandoned by its Greek-Cypriot inhabitants during the war in 1974. In time the old houses became derelict and the whole village turned to be a ghost one.

In 1979, the Council of Ministers decided to put in action an innovative project which would rejuvenate this small village of amazing scenic beauty that had appealed to foreigners for long. The main aim was to renovate the old village while developing resident tourism.

The Ministry of Interior and Housing started to lease the tumbledown buildings to foreigners at nominal prices for long terms. In 1983, the whole village was transferred to the Ministry of Tourism. Soon infrastructural works were undertaken by the Ministry and roads, pathways, and parking places were built and improved. A telephone box was installed and street lighting and water connections were modernized. Within seven years time the whole village developed and 150 houses were all renovated under the control of the Ministry. The cost of renovation and maintenance is paid by the tenants and they are obliged to use local architects and contractors. In this way, jobs were created for the local people.

The village has 150 renovated houses, 4 restaurant-pubs, and a grocery shop. The inhabitants of the village are mainly from U.K., Germany, France, Austria, and U.S.A."

sophie · Post by **sophie** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 1:17 pm

To me at any rate there definitely seems to be more GC cars about. Early last week there were three in a row in the Lemar Karaoglanoglu car park. Ordinarily I wouldn't really take notice of a BC reg. number but three in a row stuck out like a sore thumb. On Friday of last week, there were two parked on the Alsancak Lemar car park. Then on Sunday a nice pleasant man was outside St Andrews church admiring the building and he commented that he had come over to see his land/property in Lapta. Obviously there must be a firm belief over there that "we are coming back soon".

TRNCVaughan · Post by **TRNCVaughan** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 1:59 pm

Let them have their dreams.
Even if the leaders agree, there still has to be a referendum. If the deal is going to mean TC's handing over cash/property/land to GC's, it won't be a "Yes" even if it is a "Yes" from the GC's.
Remember 2004? The TC's were screwed by the EU even though they said "Yes."
The way I see it, the TC's have nothing to lose by saying "No."

Binkey · Post by **Binkey** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 2:24 pm

The government provided deeds for the TC's in the North who then sold the land to builders who developed the land and sold the properties. Some of us were lucky enough to obtain kocans which are looking increasingly worthless. All along that line the Government picked up land transfer taxes, VAT and corporation tax from the builders who's profits were taxed. Then the President states we as owners should realise someone else owns the land - you couldn't make it up. What planet are these people on? Presumably if there is a settlement the Government will pay us all back our transfer taxes and VAT to help us pay compensation - dream on!

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 3:03 pm

Binkey, I do hope that by "US" you mean all nationalities that have been treated in this manner and of course includes the TC's?

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 3:12 pm

Me smells a massive 'shafting' looming. When do you think the TRNC Government will ever address the multi-layered land/property problems involving GC/TC lands, expats being scammed by stealth mortgages, banking loan usury, crooked developers, land owners, builders, advocates, estate agents et al? It's a rhetorical question because I already think I know the answer. Perhaps somebody working in the property sector might wish to put their head over the parapet and give an honest opinion!!

trooper · Post by **trooper** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 3:58 pm

Well, it has all been very interesting. Initially not too many really answered the question and there has been a deal of 'technical' stuff about land ownership and so on, but some of the later posts are addressing the issue in a more direct way.

I posed the question, and you could all rightly infer that I believe that we will be 'sold down the river....'

The only thing that stops me from having sleepless nights is not as some state that EU regs won't allow it/discrimination etc etc but that there is tobe a referendum. I think most of us know that the ghastly GC's will never settle for anything other than complete and utter dominance of the entire island. I like to think that Turkey will stop any of our local home-grown politicos from giving too much away. So my money is on the GC's voting no to anything short of total dominance and that Turkey will stop Mr Akinci from giving too much away.

Where do we all go from there is worth thinking about.....I know where I am going, La Belle France!

erol · Post by **erol** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 4:06 pm

If there were a settlement then 'ex pat' (EU residents in north cyprus) would not only have the right to vote in local / municipal elections, they would also have the right to stand for elected positions.

Binkey · Post by **Binkey** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 4:21 pm

Yes Waddo I mean everyone who bought property in good faith irrespective of nationality.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 4:21 pm

erol, quite true but first there is to be a referendum. Ex Pat's could not count nor vote in that and the referendum is what counts most. If all GC's say Yes and all TC's say Yes then the deal is done and suddenly all Ex Pats are faced with a new life and new choices - many have come in the past to support the country of their choice, now many are unsure if they even have a future in that country - or worse - will they be given a chance of a future in that country?

It is the uncertainty of not knowing that is upsetting most Ex Pats, but then it was their choice to come in the first place and if they all thought the dream would last forever then ??????????????????

Dalartokat · Post by **Dalartokat** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 5:17 pm

sophie wrote:To me at any rate there definitely seems to be more GC cars about. Early last week there were three in a row in the Lemar Karaoglanoglu car park. Ordinarily I wouldn't really take notice of a BC reg. number but three in a row stuck out like a sore thumb. On Friday of last week, there were two parked on the Alsancak Lemar car park. Then on Sunday a nice pleasant man was outside St Andrews church admiring the building and he commented that he had come over to see his land/property in Lapta. Obviously there must be a firm belief over there that "we are coming back soon".

Maybe they have crossed over to see their new property purchases, as if things are not already complicated.

http://www.kpdailynews.com/index.php/ca ... LOCAL_NEWS

erol · Post by **erol** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 5:34 pm

waddo wrote:It is the uncertainty of not knowing that is upsetting most Ex Pats,

I understand uncertainty is unsettling, to anyone. Speaking for no one but myself I am ready for a settlement. I came to live in Cyprus not long before the Annan plan referendum and I actually voted no it that one. Less so based on the actual detail of the plan and more so based on an overriding feeling that it was essentially a 'rushed' plan to meet the needs and timeline of the EU and not Cypriots. Now, having lived here for 12+ years I am ready to take a chance on the 'devil I do not know', for now I know the devil I do know and it is in my view a 'devil' in need of the kind of radical shake up that only a settlement might achieve in the kind of time frame that will make a difference to me.

guru · Post by **guru** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 6:05 pm

The BRS wrote to Pres' Akinci on August 7th expressing the concerns of expats and requesting a meeting with him, an interesting read.

I don't know if Mr Akinci has replied or not but I would suggest e-mailing the BRS if you have any thoughts or concerns either way.

http://www.brstrnc.com/images/stories/d ... akinci.pdf

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 6:59 pm

Excellent Erol, that was the information that was missing from all the discussion the bit about you are ready to take a chance. Indicates that the devil you do know is not doing what the people want but what the devil wants and that is never good. A shake up one way or another is coming, you can feel it in the wind and at least you will never be surprised by the antics of the devil you do not know!!

Guru, interesting read? If I had been Mr Akinci I would not have been too happy to read it myself, I was under the impression that the BRS were working hand in hand with the Government but the tone and content of the letter did not indicate that at all.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 7:17 pm

So letter sent on the 7th but still no reply ?

Just as a side issue here where do Turkey fit into all this ?.. after 40yrs are they just going to pack up and go home, I don't think so.

erol · Post by **erol** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 7:23 pm

guru wrote:The BRS wrote to Pres' Akinci on August 7th expressing the concerns of expats and requesting a meeting with him, an interesting read.

I don't if Mr Akinci has replied or not but I would suggest e-mailing the BRS if you have any thoughts or concerns either way.

http://www.brstrnc.com/images/stories/d ... akinci.pdf

It makes me a little uneasy to criticise such a letter here publicly but I am going to do so anyway as well as share my thoughts in general. I'll take it point by point

1. What does 'honoured' and 'the rights of those that hold protected' actually mean ? Does it mean that those that hold such deeds will be treated equally and fairly within the terms of the proposed commission or does it mean 'they have to become international recognised absolute title deeds as part of any settlement' ? If the BRS is asking the later I think it is an unreasonable expectation and demand, despite the 'promises' made by administrations in the past. If it is the former then the protection is down to the terms and guidelines that any such commission would use and the fact that it will be made up of a GC, TC and neutral member.

2. To me this is a pointless question to even ask. Of course it will.

[to be continued as and when I find the time]

guru · Post by **guru** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 7:29 pm

waddo wrote:Excellent Erol, that was the information that was missing from all the discussion the bit about you are ready to take a chance. Indicates that the devil you do know is not doing what the people want but what the devil wants and that is never good. A shake up one way or another is coming, you can feel it in the wind and at least you will never be surprised by the antics of the devil you do not know!!

Guru, interesting read? If I had been Mr Akinci I would not have been too happy to read it myself, I was under the impression that the BRS were working hand in hand with the Government but the tone and content of the letter did not indicate that at all.

Tend to agree waddo, although I guess they are only saying what everyone else is thinking, and maybe it needs to be said, especially when Mr Akinci makes statements about people having to realise that they are 'occupying someone else's property' which is a bit rich considering the TRNC government are ultimately responsible for it. They seem to keep putting the onus and burden at the purchasers door when really the buck should stop with them. As myself and someone else has said earlier, we've all paid our taxes and fees and been given our Kocan's, so over to you now.

guru · Post by **guru** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 7:58 pm

turtle wrote:So letter sent on the 7th but still no reply ?

I don't know whether BRS have received a reply or not, maybe if there are any BRS members on this forum they could contact the BRS and ask the question.

erol · Post by **erol** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 8:13 pm

3. Asking the president to comment on 'rumours' seems to me to be a little strange, though I do understand the concern. I personally think it is inconceivable that any settlement would or could differentiate in such a manner.

4. This to me is a real issue. I expect any compensation fund to first use the value of TC pre 74 property in the South that was 'signed over' top the TRNC administrations. Any amounts accrued from individuals should only be to make up any shortfalls after this. I would vote against any deal that sought to keep such pre 74 TC property in 'state' hands and sought instead to fund compensation solely from individuals. I also think any attempt to force individuals to solely fund compensation, whilst keeping property in the South signed over by TC in 'exchange' is doomed to fail. Legally and morally.

5. Any settlement would involved the creation of a 'new' Cypriot state but both EU membership and UN membership would carry over from the RoC to the new entity. This seems clear to me.

The idea that an EU citizen residing in another member state has exactly the same rights within that country as a citizen of that state is a flawed idea in and off itself. A brit living in France does NOT have the same rights within France as a French citizen has. So asking if that would be the case in Cyprus post a settlement is to me a flawed question. Any (non Cypriot) EU citizen residing in Cyprus will have the same rights there as they would have in any other member state that they were not citizens of and really there should be no need to even ask this in my opinion.

There will need to be a transition period and there may need to be temporary 'degrogrations' on full freedom to work and reside anywhere in Cyprus but these will only be temporary if they are needed at all.

Bi -Communality can be protected easily without having to have any (permanent) restrictions on EU citizens right to reside any where they like in the EU. Bi - Communality could easily be defined as 'language groups' , like they do in Belgium to some degree, where representation of a federal element is not dependent on where you reside but what your native language is. Bi - Zonality is a tougher nut to crack. My personal view is that Bi - Zonality will only be able to have 'temporary' protection (possible quite long), similar to the provisions within the Annan plan.

guru · Post by **guru** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 8:47 pm

Quite agree with you Erol, particularly your comment on Q4, that has to be a MUST.

Also with regard to Q4, what would happen if a piece of TC land in the south was valued higher than the Esdeger land in the north? Who gets that?

It will also be interesting to see whether the points value for the land in the south accurately reflects the size and value of the land given in the north in 1974.

Also, what will they do about TMD (army gift) land which has no exchange land in the south to offset it? I could be wrong, but as an example, I think the Turtle Bay site near Korineum golf course is TMD land and that site is huge.

erol · Post by **erol** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 10:09 pm

guru wrote:Quite agree with you Erol, particularly your comment on Q4, that has to be a MUST.

Also with regard to Q4, what would happen if a piece of TC land in the south was valued higher than the Esdeger land in the north? Who gets that?

It will also be interesting to see whether the points value for the land in the south accurately reflects the size and value of the land given in the north in 1974.

Also, what will they do about TMD (army gift) land which has no exchange land in the south to offset it? I could be wrong, but as an example, I think the Turtle Bay site near Korineum golf course is TMD land and that site is huge.

Points were awarded in the North not just for signing over land in the South. They were given for other reasons as well but equally used in 'exchange' for pre 74 GC land / property. My aunt for example received points as 'compensation' for the murder of her husband in 1964 which were then 'exchanged' for a modest property. I am ok with the concept that any increase in value on my property that accrues as a direct result of its title deed changing from 'disputed' to 'non disputed' could be used to make up this kind of shortfall, rather than accrue to me as a kind of 'windfall', but only on the understanding that what value there is in property in the south signed over by TC is used first to meet compensation claims. As you point out though comparable values of property in the North and South may mean that even though more 'volume' of land was 'gained' by TC as a result of 74 than they 'lost' in the south, the relative values may not be that disparate over all. It is a complicated thing but I do not think it is beyond a solution given the necessary desire and will.

wanderer · Post by **wanderer** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 10:23 pm

Erol should not the property start date be 1960 or 1964 before theTC population was marginalised
May 1974 you are staring from a low TC original ownership

erol · Post by **erol** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 10:55 pm

wanderer wrote:Erol should not the property start date be 1960 or 1964 before theTC population was marginalised
May 1974 you are staring from a low TC original ownership

Whilst there was a lot of movement of TC into enclaves / safe areas, especially 64-68, I do not think there was any large scale removing of TC titles in that period ?

Dalartokat · Post by **Dalartokat** » Tue 18 Aug 2015 11:23 pm

More of the same about BRS in the Cyprus Mail

http://cyprus-mail.com/2015/08/18/expat ... -property/

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Wed 19 Aug 2015 4:57 am

Dalartokat wrote:More of the same about BRS in the Cyprus Mail

http://cyprus-mail.com/2015/08/18/expat ... -property/

The south has painted this worst case scenario from times before the island joined the EU which made all EU citizens have rights too - rights they don't want us to have. They have always wanted to have their cake and eat it.

Are they willing for all ex-Turkish lands in the south to be submitted? They have made an empty promise that this is what will happen but I don't believe hand on heart that they do - So they may have to pay reciprocal compensation if they don't actually want to vacate land and properties.

Being in the EU, they will find, grants all EU citizens things Cypriots have no intention of granting to non-Cypriots by their own volition.

The right to domicile, the right to work, the right to things we all left behind are coming back.... they won't like in either camp I fear.

jacob · Post by **jacob** » Wed 19 Aug 2015 3:26 pm

http://cyprus-mail.com/2015/08/18/expat ... -property/

Worth reading.

Think Groucho has posted it above.

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