As The UK Government Totally Lost The Plot.

[Johnny Lee]

Security firm, G4S is given a multi million pound contract to transport Refugees (scroungers) around the UK. after placing several at expensive Wolverhampton hotels, and providing them with 3 meals per day and spending money. One of them commented, Wolverhampton would have not been my first choice, but its OK.( I suppose I can understand that after living there for the best part of my life,)

Maybe they would have preferred the Hilton. The one hotel commented, we don't feed them in the normal restaurant, just in the Grand Suite. Hotel bosses have been told to keep it all under wraps.

Yet my wife's pension that was due last month, after paying for it all of her working life, and being promised at age 15 that if she paid in to the system, at age 60 her pension would be paid. But have course ,like many other peoples entitlement, the government have stolen it.

Its about time the Army and the Police got on the side of the people who employ them, and turned these scroungers away.

[kaiserphil]

Yes, we have lost my Wife's pension as well.

Just thank your lucky stars you are not in Germany, especially here in Munich!

[wanderer]

Fun answer not personal

KP
Bellapais was full of Germans the other week I assumed that it was to allow room for the migrants under Frau Merkles invitees
JL
The female pension age going up was down to a man taking the government to court for equal rights as women retired at 60 and lived longer than men who retired at 65 so wisdom prevailed and the women had their pension age increased to 65 in easy stages
Roll forward to the last financial crash in 2008 and everybody has to work till they drop.On top of that the media wheel out people who extol the virtue of never ending work
Also the hotel they are being put up in is crap IMHO .The authorities are hilarious with their temporary accommodation a young english mother with no car was put in a motel on a motorway service station luckily she did not have a car or she would have been fined for staying over the parking time allowance

[erol]

Images form Syria as it is today

http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2015/0 ... ar/389781/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... untry.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... world.html

This then is what people are fleeing. Multiple millions of them. The UK has said it will take 20,000 over 5 years and the original poster is outraged that a mere handful of them have been provided three meals a day and temporary accommodation by the UK - a country still listed as the fourth richest in the world. Seriously look at those pictures. Imagine that is what it is like where YOU live, where you mother and father live, where you brother and sister live, where you children live. Really try and think about what your lives would be like living under such conditions and then tell me that should you choose to try and flee such conditions you would be nothing more than a scrounger. These people's lives have been destroyed by war and conflict, a war and conflict that the UK has played a part in creating and sustaining imo. They have lost everything, they have nothing. Do 'we' - the British people really begrudge a tiny number of them being given 3 meals a day and temporary accommodation and most of all to give them hope that they can have a chance to rebuild their lives away from the horrors that have destroyed them ?

[terry2366]

Yes Erol but the majority are NOT from Syria and by far the greatest numbers are young men!!

[Johnny Lee]

Erol we have a great many of our own people living in poverty, OAPs who have fought for our once great country, Younger people homeless living in shop doorways, and tube stations. Sorry these refugees are really not our problem.

Lets do what TRNC have done. Make it difficult for guests to work etc and give them Jack S--t.

Then you will see the amount of scroungers trying to enter the UK dwindle. Like some one said the majority of these scroungers are fit young men.

It is pretty obvious that they are taking the P--s and our weak stupid government are allowing this.

A company like G4S should refuse, but like so many people they are only interested in the financial gain. Like so many other people in the UK with their head in the sand. I'm all right Jack . But 10 years down the line when the country is finished ,they will live to regret it.

If the Uk is still the fourth richest country in the world, then do you not think they should pay the people whom are entitled to what they have paid in to the system

This is an outrage. It will eventually cause civil unrest.

[erol]

Erol we have a great many of our own people living in poverty, OAPs who have fought for our once great country, Younger people homeless living in shop doorways, and tube stations. Sorry these refugees are really not our problem.

I know you do not want to believe it and there is little point in trying to convince you otherwise but the evidence of the hard numbers from credible sources is that without the contribution of immigrants to the UK past and present, the UK would in fact be poorer as a nation, which would only mean more people living in poverty and on the streets. Immigrants to the UK past and present have contributed and do contribute more in terms of revenue to the state than they take from it and according to report in the link I posted in another thread more than those 'native' to the UK.

Immigrants who arrived in the UK between 2001 and 2011 from the rest of the European Union contributed a total of £20bn more in taxes to the public purse than they received in benefits, while non-EU immigrations contributed £5 billion.
By contrast, the UK-born population contributed £617bn less in taxes than they received in benefits over that period.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/11 ... 05522.html

Lets do what TRNC have done. Make it difficult for guests to work etc and give them Jack S--t.

Totally arse about tit I am afraid. One way to ensure that immigrants to the UK were not able to be net revenue creators, as ll evidence suggest they are, would be to implement the kind of policies the TRNC has. How many ex pats here work off the books , paying no tax on earnings and profits solely because it is so difficult to do so legally ? People who would be more than willing to pay tax on earnings and profits if there was a feasible mechanism for doing so ? This then is what you think the UK should do in order to ensure immigrants are not a financial burden on the state ? Madness sheer madness.

It will eventually cause civil unrest.

I suggest what is more likely to cause civil unrest is when people are only able to confront the issue of immigration emotively , using emotive and loaded terms like 'scroungers' devoid from and ignoring any actual real hard evidence as to if immigration in the UK past and present has been and is either a net fincical positve or negative for the country.

[Angiebaby]

Johnnie you talk so much common sense maybe you should apply for Camerons position LOL.

I do not think Erol really realizes the true facts.

[erol]

I do not think Erol really realizes the true facts.

Yeah I am funny like that. I tend to give more credence to reports by bodies like the OECD and UCL based on actual numbers and real research, than I do to a individual stranger on a forum that appearers to only be able to reinforce their own pre held prejudices regardless of and without any independent evidence.

[charlie]

Could the TRNC take some Syrians, plenty of villas available and perhaps they could be given work permits etc.

[munchy]

Message 4 Erol, if I was fleeing that LIVING HELL, I would be more than Happy with 3 meals per day , Shelter and Safety and a hope that one day I could go back to a better Syria

[erol]

Could the TRNC take some Syrians, plenty of villas available and perhaps they could be given work permits etc.

We could indeed. By my very quick and rough calculation if the TRNC were to take the same amount as the proportion of the population as the UK has pledged (20,000 over 5 years) and using a UK population of 60million and trnc population of 300,000 then (if my very quick maths is right) we would need to take 100 over 5 years (20 per year) to be taking the same equivalent as the UK has pledged. I think we could manage that without the country descending into rivers of blood ?

[erol]

Message 4 Erol, if I was fleeing that LIVING HELL, I would be more than Happy with 3 meals per day , Shelter and Safety and a hope that one day I could go back to a better Syria

I, having fled a living hell in the hope of getting back to some semblance of a normal life may well be more focused on being able to start that rebuilding of my life as soon as possible and feel frustration on being pushed from one form of temporary situation to another seemingly without end. I would want to be able to start seeking work so that I could feed myself, house myself and begin rebuilding my life and everything that I had lost and as such may not be 'content' simply to be fed and house temporarily in a hotel (or a tent in Cyprus).

In any case I do not believe that the majority of refugees fleeing the horror of places like Syria today are ungrateful for what help is offered to them. I do think however that the majority want to get to a situation where they can start rebuilding their lives as soon as possible. I think it is easy to take exceptions out of all proportion and context and portray them as 'typical' of the mass of such refugees but I am not convinced that is a real representation of the actuality. I could easily but for the randomness of birth be a Syrian refugee today. I would also be 'youngish male' for what it is worth. I would not be ungrateful to a country that offered me asylum and I would want to get on with my life and support myself as soon as I could and start contributing to the country that had taken me in and I do not think I am particularity different from other people , where ever they come from.

[surfmeetseast]

I agree with so much of what Erol states, to put it in a very small nutshell there are innocent terrified people trying to escape a war torn country and survive. They most likely had no desire for war at all
There are greedy people who want to take advantage of entering the UK because they want an easy life
The gutter press want to stir up people's feelings in order to sell their papers and make money
We are all human beings and collectively we own the earth
The citizens of the UK are treated very very poorly in the UK, this is a fact
The government would have us believe any lie they can muster as to why this is
Please do not read the daily rags to form your opinions it it the same as having the TV in the corner of the room (ever growing larger and larger) to dumb you down
Educate yourselves, and I believe Erol certainly has, if you really care and sop believing the Ooops that is pumped out to you
Is thatnot why many of us moved here?

[jofra]

While over the years there have been and currently are many accurate and truthful reports and analyses showing that countries have benefited from immigration, there is one small but vital point that appears not to be seperated in these analyses - and it applies back to the discovery of America and Australia, and the post-war period in the UK just as examples old and new - voluntary immigration to where (job) opportunities exist, and involuntary immigration - refugees - only (generally) moving, not for opportunities, but for survival.
Compassion for and the laudable willingness to help and accept refugees still needs to avoid misrepresentation of reports such as these - using data pertaining to one set of criteria to relate to a different scenario. Otherwise, they will never be believed when they are reporting the relevant facts.

[Dalartokat]

Seems to me that this story is more about the change of use of a hotel to a hostel without permission from the council. But put a slight spin on the story and you have something different.


http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2015 ... tel-stays/

[Ragged Robin]

The problem with Erol's point of view is that the the benefits are long term. Any usefully skilled immigrant will have to undertake a period of training, particularly in the EU where he will have to learn complicated codes of practice etc., as well as learning or at least improving a foreign language before he can start earning. The really valuable professional (medical, engineering, architecture, etc.) will probably have to re take at least part of their examinations before they can be let loose on the public , and even then start practicing as a lower level (and less money) than before. In the meantime he and his family have to be housed and fed and his children educated. I know about this because of a friendship with an Indian colleague in the UK was set back years by immigration, and in middle age suffered humiliation from a less qualified and competent head of department just because the latter had been born and educated in the UK and therefore had a head start on the career path. The exceptionally gifted (an exception in any society)will win through of course, but it s a hard slog, expensive and time consuming.

This totally unskilled and badly educated will, like the West Indians of the fifties and sixties, have to take basic , often unpleasant, manual work and become part of a double underclass and too close to criminal elements,, and at best need financial assistance while they drain the limited resourcesof the NHS and education systems.


,
It is very understandable that the suffering elderly , infirm and otherwise vulnerable people of country (( particularly if they have given long service to that country) should resent their hard earned taxes being spent on immigrants when they themselves are suffering hardship - rather than appreciate the possible value of the immigrants in l0 years time! What they miss is that it is the basic values of their own country that are responsible for the plight of pensioners etc. It is not the immigrants that are the problem but the percentage of the country's wealth that is being misappropriated by the financial sector, and the spending on leisure and entertainment sector and its exponents that is depriving the worthy poor. And this results by mismanagement of the country's resources by successive UK Governments of all parties.

[Johnny Lee]

Angie baby I would not want the job, but I reckon I could sort it very quickly and peacefully. I would just call for a total strike for a few weeks, ask all businesses to stop paying tax and VAT , and bring the country to its knees.

Then hopefully these politicians that WE PAY. may start to take notice. The UK is totally ruined. There was article yesterday on FB from a Pakistani guy in Manchester boasting that they will take over our country , rape our women, turn all churches into Mosques and lots more horrible rants.

We need someone strong in power to send these people back to their own countries.

Erolz states that we are the 4th richest country in the world !!! Yet we cannot get our NH. entitlement. My close friend left TRNC because his wife was seriously ill.He had been an officer in the British army, and then a county Sheriff in the UK. But came here to retire, but on his return to the UK with his sick wife he was told his wife could not be transported in an ambulance unless he paid 1750 stg on his credit card.

I wonder if one of the so called Asylum seekers were taken ill to night in their Hotel, would they be asked for the same ?

[Hedge-fund]

How many Syrian refugees have the rich local countries such as Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain taken in?

Here's a clue..............the answer is less than one.

[surfmeetseast]

Yes,I have read this also Hedge fund, very good question but these areas in my opinion do not want #People cluttering up their desirable 'shopping and tourist' areas
It is all about the root of all evil and that is the love of money
For too much of the population this is still true. I wish that every person with 'the love of money' could be taken to the brink of starvation and then realise that your filthy money does not melt in your mouth and feed you

[Sandman]

Message 20 - you are right in everything you say !!

[erol]

How many Syrian refugees have the rich local countries such as Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain taken in?

Here's a clue..............the answer is less than one.

Well ignoring the bankruptcy of an impled argument that 'we' should respond to this crisis only as much as the worst of other countries do, the claim that Saudia Arabia has not taken in a single Syrian national is far from true. That they do not call them refugees or treat them as such and are not signatories to the UN charters on refugees is not the same as them not taking any people from Syria into the country.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anhvinh-d ... 75924.html

[Johnny Lee]

Yes I also agree totally, the love of money, Many people in this world should be taken back to basics and bare essentials and taught to start again.

[Hedge-fund]

How many Syrian refugees have the rich local countries such as Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain taken in?

Here's a clue..............the answer is less than one.

Well ignoring the bankruptcy of an impled argument that 'we' should respond to this crisis only as much as the worst of other countries do, the claim that Saudia Arabia has not taken in a single Syrian national is far from true. That they do not call them refugees or treat them as such and are not signatories to the UN charters on refugees is not the same as them not taking any people from Syria into the country.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anhvinh-d ... 75924.html

It's a muslim issue (sunni against shia)

To export the issue to alien cultures is asking for trouble.

There is enough money and space in the muslim world to deal with these displacements.

[erol]

It's a muslim issue (sunni against shia)

Seem to be a lot of jets flying around on bombing missions flown from non muslim countries for such a 'muslim issue' ?

[thickey]

Its so sad for the Syrian people.