Demographic Changes

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Wed 25 Nov 2015 8:26 pm

When I first visited NC most Expats Resided in, Ozankoy,Karakum,Bellapais & Karmi. These areas, particularly, encouraged the influx of Foreigners with their welcoming attitude and,memorably,their "Larger than Life" Characters.
As time went on, these wonderful Individuals Retired or "Passed Away" and,I suppose, the Small Villages like Ozankoy, could no longer take the increased volume of Expats wishing to Retire to NC.
What Areas have now become the NEW focal points for Expats and, more interestingly, Why ??

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Wed 25 Nov 2015 9:33 pm

Before 2004

There were few cars, mostly old and small, many left hand drive, and no monsters to speed through the villages throwing mud at the houses and putting pedestrian lives at risk on narrow village roads. Even the inter town roads were at most two carriageeway, often one and very badly surfaced. There were no barriers on the mountain roads, and driving to the Karpas was hazardous adventure. Traffic was much slower and most of the expats lived in reach of Girne. A few brave souls in Famagusta and one or two in the Karpas. Lapta was a completely Cypriot town, Edremet a small villlage town a narrow twisty mountain road. . Bellapaise was the "posh" place to live. And Karmi/Karaman but is another long story.

There were no "estates" of identical houses, nothing larger than two stories except Girne itself which was allowed four.

Expats mainly had previous experience of the Island and chose to live in Cyprus for the country and the people,, and understood the history of the Turkish Cypriots. We also (apart f.rom Karaman) chose to live among them and bought and renovated old houses. Some even managed to learn Turkish and all at least tried. Obviously we appreciated the climate - and the then , muchlower, cost of living, but that was not our only reason,and we did not impose our wants or standards on the locals.
Only one small Supermarket (The old Tesco in Girne), No internet. No TV apart from news one a day (copies from World Service) and an old film (I still miss the Bond movies!) on Friday night. Some places you might get BBC World Service Radio and if you were very lucky BFBS. If I remember right, only four Turkish TV language stations. Hardly anyone had swimming pools - we used restaurants or the sea and saved scarce resources of water and electricity. Visitors from UKwere only welcomes if they came burdened with cool bags of crumpets and loads of English newspapers which were passed from hand to hand until they fell to pieces - otherwise Cyprus Today was the only English language reading. Tourist were encouraged to leave their books at hotels and the Kyrenia Society Library
was a very welcome resource. We also shared our own books.

continued...................................

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Wed 25 Nov 2015 9:56 pm

continued..............................

We shopped for local food and ate at local restaurants: although we did appreciate the few Brit run restaurants that specialised in really good British and even other European food - Courtyard, Rafters and Five Fingers spring to mind. Also British Bars run by real Brit characters , like the Melting Pot inside a Chinese Restaurant in the Turkish Quarter. Anyone remember that?? And was it "Meadow Garden" with Robin?

We helped each other, and even looked after each others' dogs so we could have a holiday without paying a fortune. There was Charity which included British Nurses to help the ill expats , and particularly in hospital.We even looked after each others dogs so we could get a day off without paying a small fortune.

You had to go to town to the Bank or to pay electricity bills - but you could get there without hassle and park!

The locals actually liked trusted us. Many businessmen would cash a UK cheque without a card. There were no credit cards, or machines - the shops were always running out of change but they trusted you to pay next time.We were known as "Ancient Brits" even when some of us were not quite so ancient - but it was meant and taken affectionately, as was our occasional carping about the officials and their beaurocracy!

The Post Office opened on Saturday morning, and the visitors were able to park in front of it . The Police station was on the Road past St . Andrews Church, and Churchgoers were allowed to park in the Police Car Park, which is now a pay carpark. whichwas specially opened for them on Sundays.There were no charges for parking but the carparks werent concrete, so were quagmires in winter.

It was tough in some ways, but a lot easier for the less able and was much more fun and far less stressful.

I too would like to know where the newcomers go - but I think I know why. I would also like to know where they travel to and from so often and so fast in their enormous cars to make the roads so crowded.

PS and some of us still live here, even in Ozankoy!(though sadly in some cases perhaps not for much longer)

From : An Ancient Bit, Luddite Fossil. lol

rocking · Post by **rocking** » Wed 25 Nov 2015 10:23 pm

Ragged Robin you have reminded me of so much. Do you remember Sergeant Mustafer who stood outside of bank in high street, he was the only money exchanger. He just had a suitcase. Ozankoy was where I had my first home in 1982. Mo from courtyard worked for Alan Cavander in the melting pot. Great happy memories. Thanks for those.

karmels · Post by **karmels** » Wed 25 Nov 2015 10:59 pm

rocking.
In 1982 Allan was running the harbour club in the old harbour with his wife just before their split. Mo started work in 1983 in a small bar in the old harbour called the Cavelier run by a chap from the North East who's name I have forgotten who lived or still lives in Ozankoy, his brother was the second person to run the Court Yard in the same year but left for Australia. Allan then moved to the Grapevine before moving to the Melting Pot were the old Sele restaurant was, from there he moved to the Pegasus in Karagolangolu ( not the right spelling ) the rest his history as they say.

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Wed 25 Nov 2015 11:13 pm

The Cavalier was run by Brian and his brother was Charles, great guys in stature and character. I remember Sgt Mustafa friend also of Sgt Osman from Ozankoy. Also remember TED ex Spitfire Pilot and wife Marjorie, great stories were recalled in the Melting Pot with Alan " Gold Fassl" to hand.

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Wed 25 Nov 2015 11:18 pm

rocking, Do you remember Golia and Jerry? Happy Garden (Hussein) with the wonderful Clay Oven. Pick your own chicken in the morning and have it from the Oven PM. Fantastic

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Wed 25 Nov 2015 11:27 pm

As regards Food, the LEMON TREE Catalkoy was the best Fish Restaurant. Geraldine and Werner & Barbara & Jeff ran the Courtyard for some time. The controversial MR PIGGY who was the 1st Pork Shop (what is now Pia Bella area) and who used to have a Pink Van with a pig on the top (not a real one!)

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Wed 25 Nov 2015 11:42 pm

For the latest hot News you had to go to THE TREE at the front of the PO in Girne. All sorts of messages were affixed there.
You could just walk through the Dome Hotel to use their fabulous Rock Pool at the back, no charge and Little Arif opposite the Dorana made the finest Lamb chops to be had.

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Wed 25 Nov 2015 11:48 pm

In the early 80's there were more Casinos than Supermarkets. Now anyone who remembers the HIRONDELLE where the big Roundabout is now, they are indeed "Ancient Brit" !!!

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Wed 25 Nov 2015 11:50 pm

I only "discovered" Cyprus four years ago when I came on holiday with some TC friends - fell in love with the place as it is now, to the degree that we've bought a small place (in Karsiyaka) to use two or three times a year.
However, reading all your posts makes me wish I had discovered it all those years ago - it sounds even more the place and way of life that I would have loved even more - thanks for the insights!

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 12:03 am

It was a different era jofra, there were no rules or regulations, everyone relied on each other Locals Brits Turks etc to get by.
When you wanted some nuts for example, they were shovelled out of a sack into a large bag and you paid pennies. When you wanted cherries you went to Girne Centre to the man with a cart and a pyramid of fruit from which he again shovelled masses into a bag for next to nothing. Ah those times were plentiful

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 12:09 am

Oh yes, those special trips to "Rita on the Rocks" where you had to jostle with the burly UN chaps to get a drink, are still very fondly remembered.

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 12:37 am

Near where Cafe de Paris is now we had ; MR BOB the First Softee Ice cream . He did extremely well . There was PANDA Ices before but that was short lived.
Ice cream bought from shops out of Refrigerators could be quite nasty because of the frequent power cuts and indeed water cuts we experienced then.

sophie · Post by **sophie** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 7:53 am

I had a very interesting discussion yesterday with a local lady, with two youngish children. On the one hand she is pleased with the "progess" here because of the money it brings into the island and she feels her children with have a better education and future BUT on the other hand she was sad that they will never know the island of their grandparents nor recognise wild fruit and herbs that she enjoyed as a child. She switched on her smart phone and showed me fruit that has virtually vanished except for very small areas in the very rural villages. This was after buying from her a lovely preserve/jam that can't be bought in shops any longer.

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 9:59 am

I was sitting outside a Cafe in Ozankoy some years ago. Against a backdrop of white-washed walls and quiet serenity, around the corner came a very old white haired gentleman sitting astride a worn out Donkey carrying large bundles of wood either side. The old man was TALKING ON HIS MOBILE PHONE. I knew then things would never be the same.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 11:33 am

One of the funniest back window car stickers I saw a few years back said (translated from the Turkish) "Sell the car, get a donkey". If only the gentleman with the mobile phone had not reversed the advice!

I realised that times they were a changing when I saw the olive pickers and shepherds with their biblical flocks of sheep and goats using mobiles.

There were few public toilets in the 90s and hotels and cafes accepted that people used their facilities without necessarily being customers and the Dome was a particular favourite. At that time the Dome was still had the aura of the last bastion of the British Raj. In fact there was a theory that at the end of the British Empire all the obsolete diplomats etc. set off travelling for home, but stopped and stayed when they reached Kyrenia, and most of them stayed at the Dome.

The only breakfast cereal you could get in those days was Cornflakes , but proper "Turkish" breakfasts were wonderful, with a great range of different fresh bread and rolls, as well as cold meats, cheese, salad and fruit, yoghurt and a selection of local preserves (they usually added hard boiled eggs and marmalade for the tourists.) The Dome's spread was particularly good - my mouth waters at the thought of it.

The public toilets in the Harbour were a disgrace and underground and only reached by a very steep set of very worn stone steps. When there was a sad fatality of an elderly tourist falling on the steps following by an outcry of protests. The loos were refurbished with fancy pink tiles, seats as well as holes in the ground, and even an attendant to give you a handful of loo paper on entry and sprinkle you hands with lemon cologne on exit. The only snag was they did absolutely nothing about the steps themselves ....plus sa change plus sa meme chose!

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 11:55 am

Ragged Robin, Do you remember Halil? at the first Restaurant to the Harbour. He was the short rotound chap who had a very loud approach to Tourists , but his charm made the place successful. Funda ( Alan Cavinders Son in law ) was very successful at the Harbour Bar and later at Ambelia . Sadly, he passed away at a very young age.
In the early days, due to the lack of choice, we tended to live off, Cans of Tuna, Vonk cheese slices, eggs toms and that hard greyish TC bread. Not the fluffy white stuff there is now.
It was fantastic to come across vintage classic cars abandoned in old homesteads. A bit of loving care could have resurrected these vehicles. I never did find out what happened to these beauties.

dippersgirl · Post by **dippersgirl** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 1:12 pm

We came here in 2000 and chose to live in Dipkarpaz. Then and partially now it has not changed a lot. It is as you all describe your villages. It's a bit tidier, a few new houses, pavements. The big difference is the road to Dipkarpaz. But the shops are still much as they were then, maybe a little more choice. I can still go and say 'pay next week'?? We now do have an ATM, which means I do not run out of money and have to rush to Famagusta.
As for all the hand made items that so many TC's and GC's don't bother to make any more, here the Turkish settlers have taken on the challenge to keeps the traditions alive and also make some of the Turkish mainland crafts. One of the husbands has managed to build a frame under the instructions of an old turkish woman, to make carpets. Not the woven kelims, no the 'knotted'(if that's what it is called)kind - watch this space!!
Over the years not many other people have bought property here, maybe half a dozen. Just a few more might be nice, but no estates please!!!

rocking · Post by **rocking** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 1:34 pm

Just remembered CTA only two flights a week from uk Heathrow, no seat numbers, Ercan to Heathrow from October plane full of people carrying their molohiya back to relatives in uk. This was 1978 until we came here full time. Soldiers at airport now we have police. Lovely to read all these posts.

Traveller0392 · Post by **Traveller0392** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 1:38 pm

Who remembers 'Busters' in Kyrenia, (circa 2005) the same arcade area as Cafe De Paris behind the Colony? There was a guy called Brian who worked behind the bar there, not sure where he is now, last seen walking towards Catalkoy.

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 1:54 pm

Dippersgirl, In 1983 when the "Pan Handle" was "Out of Bounds" a TC friend took us to St Andreas Monastery. At that time, pigs were still being reared in the grounds of the monastery by the few remaining GC's and life looked quite dire for All the people who were living there. Golden Bay Beach was totally deserted and I doubt whether there was even a footprint on it. Travel was by rocky uneven track and at one stage we come across a lone Donkey. I got out of the car spoke to her and stroked her. As we drove away, I could see her rolling on her back and kicking the air in joy. Wonderful experience.

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 1:57 pm

rocking, Yes I remember the glint of fixed bayonets as we arrived at Ercan

riverhill · Post by **riverhill** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 2:36 pm

Yes.I remember BUSTERS.A pint of draught beer was only one and a half million.we used to eat in the CHICKEN HOUSE beside Cafe de Paris.

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 2:38 pm

Wife crossing Girne High St during Rush Hour 1984. I believe the Dorana Hotel is to the right. Note the two way traffic. If this is appreciated, there are more photos. Click img016.jpg below

jacob · Post by **jacob** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 3:48 pm

I would love to see lots more photo's please.

David · Post by **David** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 5:34 pm

Yes me too

ttoli · Post by **ttoli** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 7:00 pm

Traveller0392

I think that you mean "Gloucesters" , then it was onto the Villa Swallow before ending up at the Night Jar run by Aiden ( Now Neo bar )

Traveller0392 · Post by **Traveller0392** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 7:30 pm

No .. definitely Busters .. a lady with Red hair had it, and it was named after her dog. true story. Ah, yes.. Villa swallow ... karaoke Tuesdays. ha ha ... Then up to Windows for last orders. my mate has bought the old wooden bar top when they did the refurbishment. has it in his house.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 8:08 pm

I visited the Karpas in the late 90s with a London Turkish friend who had been diagnosed with cancer, and wanted a vial of water from a holy relic there. The only people who appeared to be around where a very large, armed, Turkish Cypriot policeman who checked passports before one was let, in and tiny , frail, Greek Cypriot Nun certainly old enough to be the policeman's granny.. She was gving him a right telling off - apparently because he had not eaten all the nice dinner she made for him!

The Nun showed us round , chattering happily with my friend who spoke fluent Greek, and provided the required vial. The shrine was surrounded by votive offerings, some quite recent, of hands, arms, ears etc. from people seeking cures.

A strange example of how the two cultures and traditions sometimes got interwoven, and a lovely one of how people can relate on a basic human level.

Sadly my friend died in a UK hospital a year or so later.

Later I had several wonderful lovely holidays in the Karpas some including my dogs. I would love to go again and see all the crafts etc and unspoiled countryside that dippers girl mentioned, but it is not so easy these days with dogs, and I doubt I and my old banger of a car could cope with the journey and the traffic en route.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 8:29 pm

I remember when Girne, in fact most of the country was full of off duty Turkish soldiers in uniform.. I think the requirement to wear uniform off duty was revoked when it was found they made the tourists uneasy. Personally I always found them polite and very helpful They pulled me out of trouble when I got into a ditch, and on another occasion got stuck in mud. On another occasion when I ventured to wade/swim through hole in the rock at Altankaya beach (then known as "The Landing Beach" now "Escape") and found myself marooned on rocks covered in sea urchins a couple of duty soldiers rescued me and guided me to safety. For a moment I thought I had strayed into a script from "Dr. No" but having seen me safely back to the beach they just saluted very smartly and marched off.

Maisiemoo · Post by **Maisiemoo** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 8:44 pm

Yes I remember the soldiers in their uniforms especially on a Friday when there were queues of them at every available cashpoint in Girne. I also remember a soldier indicating my husband should slow down near the army camp in Camlibel. Who could forget the journey from Girne to the Karpas which necessitated an over-night stay as it took so long to drive there, happy memories.

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 8:55 pm

Ragged Robin, Here are some more pictures, Top one, of Turkish soldiers keeping an eye on me Girne 1983 and bottom one Girne Harbour 1983

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Sat 28 Nov 2015 12:35 am

1st photo , a quiet day in central Ozankoy 1983. 2nd photo, the front of "The Courtyard" Karakum 1983. One of the very few places that has hardly changed.

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Sat 28 Nov 2015 12:38 am

A quiet day in central Ozankoy 1983

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Sun 29 Nov 2015 3:19 pm

Ruins at Salamis 1983

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Sun 29 Nov 2015 3:22 pm

Salamis 1983

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Sun 29 Nov 2015 3:25 pm

Looking towards 5 Finger mountain 1983

sophie · Post by **sophie** » Sun 29 Nov 2015 3:42 pm

Munchy how lovely, not a house, hotel, casino or GAU in site. Just trees!

mikelapta · Post by **mikelapta** » Sun 29 Nov 2015 5:02 pm

Loved all that past history...thank you so much..Feel I am a 'Newbie' only been here 10 years.İ came on a Single's holıday near Salamis,12 years ago but decided to discover the İsland.İ confess İ had not read about Cyprus,that it was divided,or how beautıful Kyrenia mountains were.Second day I hired a car,discovered Gırne,it's castle and harbour......so peaceful,few tourists,locals happy to talk to you,and soon started learnıng the history since the Crusades,and,more importantly,since the British left.İ knew then İ was goıng to retire to this jewel..İ travelled a few miles toward Alsançak,down to the sea,and saw the 'Terrace'restaurant,....reminded me of 'Shirley Valentine',sea gently lapping the shore,.....ahhhh loved it all.

But then there were old Renault Police cars,none of these part buılt empty shops..So a few more holidays searching for my retirement home....too many estates being built,Mrs Smith on one side,Mr Jones on the other.......getting like Rhyl or Southend in the sun !!!

Now 10 years in Lapta,never wanted to return to UK...A Moldovan and Turkish neighbours.İ honestly do not know where my nearest Brit lives.......Donum of land,luxury.So love TRNC.please do not change too much more
in my lifetime

dippersgirl · Post by **dippersgirl** » Sun 29 Nov 2015 5:58 pm

- taken from the rood of the main house.

RR, tried to post this picture on pm, but it said 'the extension .jpg is not allowed' !!!!!!!

dippersgirl · Post by **dippersgirl** » Sun 29 Nov 2015 5:58 pm

works fine here!!!

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Sun 29 Nov 2015 7:13 pm

Iam so happy that my snaps are resurrecting some fond and joyous memories amongst some of you. There is something comforting and special in the knowledge that others have seen and felt what you have about this unique part of the World.

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Sun 29 Nov 2015 7:22 pm

The Dome Hotel Rock Pool which was fed by the open sea 1983

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Sun 29 Nov 2015 7:24 pm

St Hilarion Castle 1983 BEFORE any Safety Barriers or Rails were erected.

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Sun 29 Nov 2015 7:38 pm

Last photo for now. Just about sums up the difference in the 30 odd years.

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Sun 29 Nov 2015 8:54 pm

Marvellous pictures! Please keep them coming - in the latest pic, a Renault 12? There's a lot of them still running around....

rocking · Post by **rocking** » Sun 29 Nov 2015 10:14 pm

Munchy thank you so much for pictures. When I go back to see my daughter you have made me want to go through the boxes of pictures we have. I have loved these reminders of years gone by, especially if you saw 8 cars in kyrenia you would say "it was full of traffic".

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Sun 29 Nov 2015 10:21 pm

Against all the odds, the TRNC has done something special. It has integrated people from different cultures rather successfully. There are not many places where people are left in relative peace, providing they "keep their noses clean". One can argue this was achieved out of necessity but, nevertheless, other Countries nearby could benefit if they showed more tolerance and went back to their Traditional Values.
I hope the future becomes brighter for NC ,especially, if the issues of Animal Cruelty. Road Safety and general untidyness, can be mutually addressed. All peoples can learn from each other with patience, respect, understanding and a little humour thrown in.
jofra, I have lots of photos that need sorting, but Iam rather busy at the moment.

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Sun 29 Nov 2015 10:26 pm

rocking; My wife & I Thank you also for the many wonderful times we had at your Establishment. Memories are to be treasured

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