Aerial Video of Maris Verosha

[wanderer]

<iframe width="1366" height="768" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AYKC0dsrh4U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Aerial Video of Maris Verosha

[Keithcaley]

...Or even...

[kaiserphil]

When I was there, all that time ago, I thought it was the best town on the island.

[Dalartokat]

Cyprus Mail has the video also, it's a bit slow due to using a drone.



http://cyprus-mail.com/2016/02/23/recen ... ial-media/

[Barney]

Wicked just leaving the place to rot and keep thousands of Cypriots out of their homes, one questions the motives.

[Groucho]

Wicked just leaving the place to rot and keep thousands of Cypriots out of their homes, one questions the motives.

Not as wicked at GC's attempting to wipe whole TC communities pre-1974. Since when veritable peace has reigned. If it needs Varosha's isolation it's a small p[rice to pay. Most of the buildings and inhabitants were hotels, hoteliers, holiday makers and ancillary service staff..

[WotNoDeeds]

And this is what the developers will turn verosha into IF there's a solution ? they have already started to wreck Girne (click on YouTube logo you'll get full screen) -

[Barney]

Wicked just leaving the place to rot and keep thousands of Cypriots out of their homes, one questions the motives.

Not as wicked at GC's attempting to wipe whole TC communities pre-1974. Since when veritable peace has reigned. If it needs Varosha's isolation it's a small p[rice to pay. Most of the buildings and inhabitants were hotels, hoteliers, holiday makers and ancillary service staff..

But it didn't need Varosha's isolation to prevent inter communal violence, the separation of the communities and the green line did that. Peace would still reign if the greeks were still in the town, it's a wicked waste of the island's resources and does nothing to bring a fair and long term solution to Cyprus.

[Groucho]

I would hazard that Varosha is seen as a strategically and militarily important site for the securing of the port of Famagusta... therefore there is no mystery in the TRNC/Turkish reluctance in this regard pending a solution.

[Barney]

I would hazard that Varosha is seen as a strategically and militarily important site for the securing of the port of Famagusta... therefore there is no mystery in the TRNC/Turkish reluctance in this regard pending a solution.

You hazard wrong I think, the port is much closer to the Turkish old walled city, Greek Varosha is further south, as I understand it the modern fenced off area is separate from the port. I can't see why the modern town would have any strategic value, Turkey just wants to punish the Greeks.

[Groucho]

I would hazard that Varosha is seen as a strategically and militarily important site for the securing of the port of Famagusta... therefore there is no mystery in the TRNC/Turkish reluctance in this regard pending a solution.

You hazard wrong I think, the port is much closer to the Turkish old walled city, Greek Varosha is further south, as I understand it the modern fenced off area is separate from the port. I can't see why the modern town would have any strategic value, Turkey just wants to punish the Greeks.

Short-range missile attacks could be mounted from a site such as Varosha... whilst providing line of sight and disguise. Of course these days armaments being what they are, this is not the consideration it was at the time of the intervention but it's no surprise that the decisions made in 1974 are still held to be relevant today - this is Cyprus!

[jacob]

I would hazard that Varosha is seen as a strategically and militarily important site for the securing of the port of Famagusta... therefore there is no mystery in the TRNC/Turkish reluctance in this regard pending a solution.

You hazard wrong I think, the port is much closer to the Turkish old walled city, Greek Varosha is further south, as I understand it the modern fenced off area is separate from the port. I can't see why the modern town would have any strategic value, Turkey just wants to punish the Greeks.

Well are you surprised that Turkey want to punish the Greeks, fgs, the Greek Cyps were committing acts of genocide, or do you think that is acceptable, just to add, I am no supporter of Turkey with Erdogan at the helm.

[wanderer]

Its 1.5 miles from the centre of the abandoned city to othello tower overlooking the centre of the port

[Barney]

I would hazard that Varosha is seen as a strategically and militarily important site for the securing of the port of Famagusta... therefore there is no mystery in the TRNC/Turkish reluctance in this regard pending a solution.

You hazard wrong I think, the port is much closer to the Turkish old walled city, Greek Varosha is further south, as I understand it the modern fenced off area is separate from the port. I can't see why the modern town would have any strategic value, Turkey just wants to punish the Greeks.

Well are you surprised that Turkey want to punish the Greeks, fgs, the Greek Cyps were committing acts of genocide, or do you think that is acceptable, just to add, I am no supporter of Turkey with Erdogan at the helm.

I know there was a lot of fighting between the two sides but i have never heard of genocide, I was told that hundreds were killed on both sides before 1974 but thousands as a result of the invasion.

[Barney]

I would hazard that Varosha is seen as a strategically and militarily important site for the securing of the port of Famagusta... therefore there is no mystery in the TRNC/Turkish reluctance in this regard pending a solution.

You hazard wrong I think, the port is much closer to the Turkish old walled city, Greek Varosha is further south, as I understand it the modern fenced off area is separate from the port. I can't see why the modern town would have any strategic value, Turkey just wants to punish the Greeks.

Short-range missile attacks could be mounted from a site such as Varosha... whilst providing line of sight and disguise. Of course these days armaments being what they are, this is not the consideration it was at the time of the intervention but it's no surprise that the decisions made in 1974 are still held to be relevant today - this is Cyprus!

But they share Nicosia and are only a few yards apart there, so why not famagusta and Varosha.

[turtle]

Nice beaches but awful high rise buildings...... as already said Benidorm mk2..... yuk

[Groucho]

I know there was a lot of fighting between the two sides but i have never heard of genocide, I was told that hundreds were killed on both sides before 1974 but thousands as a result of the invasion.

Read this http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 13we45.htm

Understand that what you have been told is very probably a long way from the truth - which is no surprise.

Quote:-

Clerides continued: "If the Turkish Cypriots resist "unilateral amendments of the Constitution" where their rights would be abrogated, the forces of the Minister of Interior will use force to "put down the uprising". Lt General George Karayiannis (the mainland Greek Army Officer then in command of the Cyprus Army) told Ethnikos Kiryx, an Athens Daily, on 13 June 1965 that "President Makarios decided (a) to proceed to organise the Greek Cypriots for battle and arm them, and (b) to proceed with the revision of the Constitution, including the cancellation of the [Turkish Cypriot] Vice-President's Veto."

"When the Turkish Cypriots objected to the amendment of the constitution Makarios put his plan into effect, and the Greek Cypriot attack began in December 1963"—(Lt Gen Karayiannis)[117] The General is referring to the "Akritas" plan, which was the blueprint for the annihilation of the Turkish Cypriots and the annexation of the island to Greece.

[tomsteel]

Why cannot we learn from history, rather than just quote it? The indigenous people of Cyprus are Cypriots. Not Greeks or Turks, and there are Maronites here. Let the Cypriots decide their future. If the minority cannot accept what the majority want, have 2 separate states. It works, after a fashion, in Ireland.

[Barney]

Why cannot we learn from history, rather than just quote it? The indigenous people of Cyprus are Cypriots. Not Greeks or Turks, and there are Maronites here. Let the Cypriots decide their future. If the minority cannot accept what the majority want, have 2 separate states. It works, after a fashion, in Ireland.

Agreed, but the problem is that the minority want more of Cyprus than their numbers "deserve". They have so much of it that they have been able to "sell" off greek property cheaply to foreigners and give some away to mainland Turks. I think the Greeks would accept a legal partition but not at current territorial shares

[tomsteel]

There should be no mention of 'Greek' regarding the Cypriot problem. Both sides have given away land they did not own. Both major airports in the RoC have been developed on land owned by Cypriots of the minority ethnicity without their permission.

[Barney]

There should be no mention of 'Greek' regarding the Cypriot problem. Both sides have given away land they did not own. Both major airports in the RoC have been developed on land owned by Cypriots of the minority ethnicity without their permission.

OK but one fifth of the population occupy nearly half the island, surely that's not right.

[tomsteel]

I do not have facts to hand on population sizes or land mass areas. However, it is generally accepted the minority is 1/3rd and their land mass is just under 40%.

[Barney]

I know there was a lot of fighting between the two sides but i have never heard of genocide, I was told that hundreds were killed on both sides before 1974 but thousands as a result of the invasion.

Read this http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 13we45.htm

Understand that what you have been told is very probably a long way from the truth - which is no surprise.

Quote:-

Clerides continued: "If the Turkish Cypriots resist "unilateral amendments of the Constitution" where their rights would be abrogated, the forces of the Minister of Interior will use force to "put down the uprising". Lt General George Karayiannis (the mainland Greek Army Officer then in command of the Cyprus Army) told Ethnikos Kiryx, an Athens Daily, on 13 June 1965 that "President Makarios decided (a) to proceed to organise the Greek Cypriots for battle and arm them, and (b) to proceed with the revision of the Constitution, including the cancellation of the [Turkish Cypriot] Vice-President's Veto."

"When the Turkish Cypriots objected to the amendment of the constitution Makarios put his plan into effect, and the Greek Cypriot attack began in December 1963"—(Lt Gen Karayiannis)[117] The General is referring to the "Akritas" plan, which was the blueprint for the annihilation of the Turkish Cypriots and the annexation of the island to Greece.

I reckon its been tit for tat for years in Cyprus, 1963 was revenge for what happened in 1958.

"4. I fear this could be the beginning of communal strife of a more serious kind than any we have seen since it indicates that Turks are prepared to carry out attacks on Greek property in order to serve their political ends. On this occasion, however, it may be that having made their demonstration they will wait a while before making a new move. On the other hand the Greeks may resort to counter-violence."
http://mignatiou.com/2014/05/turkish-bo ... the-facts/

[kaiserphil]

The website you quote is propaganda.

[Ragged Robin]

I fınd ıt hard to belıeve that there are people here who do not know what happened to the Turkish Cypriots after 1963 : They need to listen to those of us who were herein 63 and witnessed i!

As for land proportions - it is not the amount of land owned by members of different communities that is the issu , it is the value! The Turkish Cypiot community always owned more land because it was mostly agricultural land where as the Greeks had smaller parcels of land but it was more valuable because it was land used for commere or tourism and therefore earned more money per (say) square metre. How this anomaly is going to be sorted out with allthe changes of use and values of land both North and South (the airports quoted by a poster above are a good case in point) without putting both entire populations (plus possibly the expats) through a further relocation I fail to see!

[Barney]

The website you quote is propaganda.

No doubt it is but the author of the script is a former British diplomat and history expert and he gives references for what he says.

[Mountain Edge]

This video has been posted on Facebook as well. You wouldn't believe some of the comments that have been made.

[erol]

No doubt it is but the author of the script is a former British diplomat and history expert and he gives references for what he says.

He is a former British diplomat and history expert who was given a a Greek Government scholarship in 1994 and since has worked as lecturer in British history, literature and culture at the Ionian University. Yes he gives his sources but he also selects parts of these sources and gives his interpretation of what those mean, which of course he is entitled to do. However perspective matters. Just to give one example you presented this source as evidence that what happened in 63 was 'revenge' for what TC did in 58, implying that thus TC 'started it' in 58. Yet the same source could also be used to support an argument that GC had been provoking TC before this specific event in 58. So you picked out the section that suited your argument and quoted it (perfectly natural to do so) but one could easily take this section as well.

Unlike previous Turkish riots it has none of the appearance of a spontaneous reaction to some act of violence by the Greeks.

Mallinson, like your self does not make much of this part of the source he uses and I suggest that is because he has a particular perspective, which is understandable given that he has and continues to work at a Greek university funded by the Greek government.

[Barney]

No doubt it is but the author of the script is a former British diplomat and history expert and he gives references for what he says.

He is a former British diplomat and history expert who was given a a Greek Government scholarship in 1994 and since has worked as lecturer in British history, literature and culture at the Ionian University. Yes he gives his sources but he also selects parts of these sources and gives his interpretation of what those mean, which of course he is entitled to do. However perspective matters. Just to give one example you presented this source as evidence that what happened in 63 was 'revenge' for what TC did in 58, implying that thus TC 'started it' in 58. Yet the same source could also be used to support an argument that GC had been provoking TC before this specific event in 58. So you picked out the section that suited your argument and quoted it (perfectly natural to do so) but one could easily take this section as well.

Unlike previous Turkish riots it has none of the appearance of a spontaneous reaction to some act of violence by the Greeks.

Mallinson, like your self does not make much of this part of the source he uses and I suggest that is because he has a particular perspective, which is understandable given that he has and continues to work at a Greek university funded by the Greek government.

No, I didn't say who started it, I don't know who did what to who before 1958, I said it looked like tit for tat. Mallison may be biased but this is what Americans in Nicosia said,

"Said Turk leaders here have been extremely uncooperative, refusing government's requests urge restraint and instead, with utter cynicism, have repeated claim that Greek bomb at information center provoked Turk community. I pointed out admission Turk responsibility for later killings in words Kuchuk at Istanbul, who said Turk patriots “marched to Greek quarter killing two and wounding five" in retribution."
https://history.state.gov/historicaldoc ... v10p1/d207

[erol]

No, I didn't say who started it, I don't know who did what to who before 1958, I said it looked like tit for tat. Mallison may be biased

There can be no doubt that Mallinson has a partial perspective on the events in Cyprus imo. My point was that anyone can find sources that support or refute such a partial perspective and indeed we all do but that does not mean they are anything other than that.

For me, the events of 58 and 63 were aspects of the same thing, namely each community having opposing views on what the future of Cyprus should be following the end of British colonial rule. For me neither side is totally blameless in getting us to where we are today, neither solely innocent or guilty. For me the question is can we and will learn from the mistakes we made collectively in the past as communities in order to build a better future than the present we have today or not.