Lost ATM Money

johnerebus · Post by **johnerebus** » Fri 25 Mar 2016 7:01 am

Yesterday I tried to withdraw 1000 TL from the Esentepe garage ATM. I keyed in my PIN requested the 1000 TL amount and my card was returned as normal but then the screen went blank and my cash did not dispense.

I walked across the forecourt and informed the garage owner who kindly phoned and spoke to the ATM company. Whilst she was on her phone it seemed another person was now successfully withdrawing cash from the machine, a woman who after using the ATM got back into her car and just sat in it by the ATM.

As she sat I walked over to the ATM and tried again to withdraw 1000 TL and was successful. The woman then drove off.

However on checking my bank statement today I've discovered two amounts for £247.73 (=1000 TL) have been debited.

If the woman who sat in her car after withdrawing cash from the ATM is reading this and is richer by 1000 TL your good fortune is my misfortune.

Johnny Lee · Post by **Johnny Lee** » Fri 25 Mar 2016 7:06 am

Sorry to hear this, do ATMs here not have cameras ? is there no chance of car reg ? Do you think it is scam or just a malfunction ?

johnerebus · Post by **johnerebus** » Fri 25 Mar 2016 7:13 am

No cameras at the garage. I think it was a malfunction of the machine rather than a scam as the woman was from the UK and middle aged. I'm off to the garage now to see if they recognised her car.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Fri 25 Mar 2016 7:32 am

johnerebus, Thank you for restoring my faith in Human Nature - there are other normal and sensible people out there after all!

Your statement of "your good fortune is my misfortune" was wonderful to read. It was exactly that, your issue is with the ATM not the women in the car and you have made that plain without the normal moan and complaints that is so often directed at the world and any other reader of a posting here.

I wish you all the luck in the world in recovering your lost 1000TL, but to see that you have "taken it on the chin" and seen it as a pure piece of misfortune is excellent in the extreme. Good for you and a lesson to all of us.

judyvin · Post by **judyvin** » Fri 25 Mar 2016 8:07 am

I had exactly the same problem at the ATM in Karakum on Wednesday. I used first card to withdraw £500 and this was successful. I then used my other card to withdraw £500, got the receipt for the withdrawal and the machine lost connection before dispensing the money. I then went to another ATM to withdraw £500 but I was told unsufficient funds! I checked my bank and the balance pending showed that I had taken out £500. This has happened previously and I have been to the bank and they have said it will correct itself overnight. However, it is now Friday and no credit has been received so off to Garanti Bank!

iv_cyprus · Post by **iv_cyprus** » Fri 25 Mar 2016 8:20 am

Sorry to hear about this. I also had this issue, however, the next day the bank called me, before me calling them and told me they have restored the funds. Happened once with money i deposited from atm to my credit card (4000TL), which the atm took and then switched itself off. Next day again the bank called me and told me they are sorry about the error and that the money are now in my account.
In my opinion, even in TRNC the bank systems are secure enough to notice such issues and your money will be restored as soon as the statement comes out. Best of luck.

judyvin · Post by **judyvin** » Fri 25 Mar 2016 9:50 am

Thank you for your reassurances. I am off to the bank now with a positive attitude!

wanderer · Post by **wanderer** » Fri 25 Mar 2016 10:08 am

Just a comment on TRNC on line & chip and pin
I used a card to pay for Multimax subscription online checked my statement online for UK Bank and found the payment there within seconds
The same goes for goods and services bought at shops and restaurants
They seem to be well integrated into the world banking system

Johnny Lee · Post by **Johnny Lee** » Fri 25 Mar 2016 12:36 pm

Sounds Positive .Good Luck.

judyvin · Post by **judyvin** » Fri 25 Mar 2016 2:31 pm

No joy I'm afraid and not very happy! The bank were unable to help me because the card I used was a Nationwide one and not one issued by Garanti Bank. Instead I have been told to contact Nationwide and dispute the transaction. Has this happened to anyone else and if so did you successfully get your money back o the transaction cancelled?

Loobyloo · Post by **Loobyloo** » Fri 25 Mar 2016 3:06 pm

I had it happen once at Turk bank with a Nationwide card it took a week or so but the money was put back into account so hopefully it will resolve for you

johnerebus · Post by **johnerebus** » Fri 25 Mar 2016 3:12 pm

All's well that ends well as I contacted my UK bank, Halifax, and they are going to reimburse me.

brian24001 · Post by **brian24001** » Fri 25 Mar 2016 3:24 pm

judyvin wrote:No joy I'm afraid and not very happy! The bank were unable to help me because the card I used was a Nationwide one and not one issued by Garanti Bank. Instead I have been told to contact Nationwide and dispute the transaction. Has this happened to anyone else and if so did you successfully get your money back o the transaction cancelled?

I am sure the bank can easily trace who was next to use the machine?

judyvin · Post by **judyvin** » Fri 25 Mar 2016 4:15 pm

Loobyloo did you have to contact Nationwide or did it happen automatically?

elizabeth · Post by **elizabeth** » Fri 25 Mar 2016 5:40 pm

judyvin wrote:No joy I'm afraid and not very happy! The bank were unable to help me because the card I used was a Nationwide one and not one issued by Garanti Bank. Instead I have been told to contact Nationwide and dispute the transaction. Has this happened to anyone else and if so did you successfully get your money back o the transaction cancelled?

I had a similar problem .while on holiday in Australia, Nationwide were really helpful, they emailed a claim form to me which I completed and signed, I then scanned the form and returned it to them by email, the money was back in my account after four days. I hope things work out for you too.

lapta6 · Post by **lapta6** » Fri 25 Mar 2016 6:10 pm

Nationwide are very good you can email them on internet banking give them all the information, re time of transaction, amount of cash, location of the atm, I had the same problem in Southampton and emailed them the money was back in the account within 14 days.

Mozgor · Post by **Mozgor** » Sat 26 Mar 2016 11:45 pm

I worked in banking for approx 33 years and the way ATMs work is that the machine knows when it hasn't dispensed the cash and requested the money will go into a purge bin. The amount will show as withdrawn, but given time the machine will know the money wasn't dispensed and recredit the account. In addition the purge bin is checked by a human being and if it balances there is no need for concern.

However, if someone walks away from an ATM before the transaction has been completed thus allowing someone else to take the cash, well I would think there would be no recourse with the bank.

They work on phone lines and sometimes if there is a blip in the connection, situations like this can arise. Rightly or wrongly any dispute must be taken up with the bank your account is held with as the owner of the ATM has no access to your account details. It's the same in the UK.

Moyra

judyvin · Post by **judyvin** » Thu 28 Apr 2016 6:36 am

I contacted Nationwide and 4 weeks later I have had a reply saying they have had a response from Garanti bank to say there was no error! I have contacted Natiknwide again to dispute this decision but it doesnt sound too good if the bank are denying that there wasn't an error! The money was definitely not dispensed to the next person because I tried my card again straightaway. Clearly the ATM audit must have been out of balance by my £500 but the bank are being very unhelpful because my card is not one of theirs.
Has anyone else had this happen and their dispute been settled successfully. The other issue of course is that the ATM issues the receipt before the money!

Belfast Belle · Post by **Belfast Belle** » Thu 28 Apr 2016 6:54 am

If it happens to any one in the future @ Garanti
Use this email to contact them , this girl is very helpful.
AysunAd@garanti.com.tr

judyvin · Post by **judyvin** » Thu 28 Apr 2016 7:49 am

Unfortunately Bellefast Bellefast the bank can no longer help with such issues unless the account is with them. I contacted the bank and they told me that any enquiries have to be via the bank whose card I used at the ATM because they cannot view my account. The bottom line is I have a receipt for the withdrawal of £500 but did not get the cash because the ATM went offline. I waited until it came back online again and tried my card again but the money was not dispensed. I have the detail from Nationwide upplied by Garanti and it states that the ATM accounts were balanced at the end of the day and no error was found. Someone somewhere must have seen a discrepancy of £500!

aerhere · Post by **aerhere** » Thu 28 Apr 2016 6:35 pm

I would try asking for a copy of the audit trail print out from the machine. Every transaction is logged and processed which creates an audit trail which will show the transaction 'status'. The machine might have balanced but that does not mean that your transaction was successfully completed. If they do not comply with your request for this information, then ask them to confirm in writing they can help you no further, that they have exhausted their internal complaints procedures and to supply you with the contact details of the Banking Ombudsman so you can escalate your complaint. Good luck, I hope that you are successful

snd1966 · Post by **snd1966** » Fri 29 Apr 2016 4:35 am

Many years ago during bayram I used the Universal bank's ATM which gave me a receipt but no money. After HSBC in the uk sent the details of when the money was supposed to be taken I was given the money back, it did take six weeks as they / I had to request the information my bank, the ATM and their records.

judyvin · Post by **judyvin** » Fri 29 Apr 2016 7:28 am

Aerhere, The bank has received the audit trail as part of the dispute process and this lists everything from the time the card was inserted to the time the transaction was completed. The print out also states that the error check failed and the withdrawal was successful. Unfortunately I have a receipt that also states that i have withdrawn the £500. If only the recept was issued at the end of the transaction, after the money has been issued, this scenario would not occur! I have since phoned the Nationwide again and I have asked them to dispute the withdrawal on my partners card. This transaction was successful and we received the £500 but I am hoping that if they look at both a discrepancy may be apparant. It has taken 5 weeks to get this far so I am guessing I will have to wait another 5 weeks to get the findings of the second dispute,
If that fails Nationwide have said the only other option would be the small claims court but how this will help I don't know. The bottom line is someone at the Garanti bank knew that there was £500 unaccounted for! This has happened to me several times in the past with the same bank and the transaction has been corrected overnight but on this occasion it wasn't so i can't help thinking that there must have been some intervention for this money not to show up and the records not to be out of balance!

Belfast Belle · Post by **Belfast Belle** » Fri 29 Apr 2016 7:41 am

Well am glad that you got your money back , well done.

But there is something badly wrong with Garranti's ATM accounting procedure.

It has happened to me 3 times @ the ATM by Lemars Karakum, but each time I contacted Aysha & it was always sorted that day.

judyvin · Post by **judyvin** » Fri 29 Apr 2016 8:08 am

Belfast Belle. I haven't got my money back!

huggiesbob · Post by **huggiesbob** » Fri 29 Apr 2016 8:22 pm

Had same problem with Garanti Bank,went straight to their bank only to be told that maybe I should check as probably I never had the money in my account.I went mad told them I did,he said contact UK bank.
Got home rung them up an they said they would ring me end of the week an could see the information up,on the screen.
End of week got reply,the bank said I took the money an had received it....lies all I got out was a receipt saying I had taken £200 sterling, when in fact no. Indy came out.
I took the matter further,but to no avail, so someone at the bank or someone who fills the machines up had my £200
Never again, I alwasy go into the bank now for any sterling .

judyvin · Post by **judyvin** » Sat 30 Apr 2016 8:58 am

Huggiesbob, that is exactly what I think, someone saw that the receipts balanced and helped themselves to my £500! Unfortunately I have no choice but to use the ATM's because my money is paid into my Nationwide account on a monthly basis. I will however use the one at HSBC from now on since that should not lose connection!

blueparrot · Post by **blueparrot** » Sat 30 Apr 2016 1:04 pm

Huggiesbob, just to be sure I understand: When you say you go into the bank for sterling, you are taking it out of your account in NCyprus, right? Not from your UK account?

This thread is worrying. I'd rather avoid the ATMs if possible but think it is the only way to get sterling cash from a UK account?

Bonnie · Post by **Bonnie** » Sat 30 Apr 2016 4:17 pm

Your absolutely right blueparrot this is indeed a very worrying thread. Many of us rely on drawing money from our Uk accounts.
I also would prefer to avoid using ATMs where possible when drawing money from a UK account. I didn't realise it was the only way you could withdraw sterling cash from a Uk account. I wonder if someone with banking knowledge could confirm this.
I always use Guarranti ATM because I bank with them here so I feel a bit safer, but some time ago I had this happen to me receipt but no cash. I had used a UK bank card. Went straight to the bank, they weren't very reassuring simply told me to check my account. I was very fortunate the money hadn't been debited from my account. Thought it was just a blip
However after reading this thread I feel unsettled

snd1966 · Post by **snd1966** » Sun 01 May 2016 4:49 am

I think all the people who have had money taken from their account and not received it through a technical blip should all get together as it sounds quite a few. Maybe then they will look into it as everyone rightly says the audit trail somewhere will show the ATM is showing a credit.
Maybe Cyprus Today would be interested too, its amazing when a spotlight is on someone how things change

judyvin · Post by **judyvin** » Sun 01 May 2016 8:05 am

I would be more than happy to get together and take this matter further. Firstly though I need to wait until my bank has received the results of the second dispute.

judyvin · Post by **judyvin** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 1:08 pm

15 Weeks on and I have now had a positive result but only after many phone calls, emails backwards and forwards etc. and a lot of anguish.
As previously explained I had used 2 cards and the money was only dispensed with the first card and not the second although I had a receipt to say it had. I reported the error to Nationwide who raised a dispute with Garanti. However Garanti said that the money had been dispensed and that the ATM balanced on the day. I received the correspondence, including a copy of the Audit Trail of the ATM but Nationwide had redacted the card number. Many calls took place and after being finally told that there wasn't anything else Nationwide could do I was resigning to the fact that I had to bear the loss of £500. Not wanting to accept this I analysed the print out of the audit trail further. It was then that I discovered that there were a few seconds discrepancy between my receipt and the timings on the print out which caused me to wonder whether the audit trail was for the wrong card. Holding the print out up to the light I could just about make out that the last number was indeed for the successful card! I immediately contacted Nationwide who confirmed that the dispute had been raised for the wrong card and that the last 4 digits should not have been redacted in any case so I could clearly see which card was it referred to. Nationwide apologised and agreed to dispute the transaction again but this time on the correct card! It has taken until today for this to be finally resolved. Garanti did not respond to the new dispute because they believed they had already investigated it! After several further contacts by Nationwide, Garanti have now upheld the dispute and confirmed that the ATM did not balance on the day of the transactions. I have been advised that I can now keep the £500 that was re credited to me whilst the dispute was ongoing and Nationwide have also offered compensation for all the errors and delays which I am considering whether to accept in full and final settlement. I am so thankful I had a positive result but I so very nearly didn't!

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 2:36 pm

You deserve a medal!

Congratulations for your determination & 'sticking it out'!

Cally · Post by **Cally** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 4:33 pm

I am so pleased for you, not an easy task......."Dog & Bone" come to mind, your perseverance has paid off but it should not have caused so much angst

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 4:49 pm

Well done! In a previous life, my auditing and financial control duties frequently involved checking credit card throwbacks from banks, due to client/customer enquiries. Several cases involved totally different companies and/or differerent cards from the details first submitted, so by the time this was discovered (searching through hundreds of sales voucher copies) the banks invariably said "Too late, we're not paying you anyway...." - even though they had got it wrong in the first place!

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 06 Jul 2016 7:29 am

Well done, I have always found Nationwide to be a fair and honest bank, I had the same sort of problem years ago, finally resolved in my favor, and was advised by a Nationwide manager to always accept any compensation from the bank, as the loss of even a small amount of compensation by the bank assisted all managers to keep a needed process running.

Take the money - they have offered and wish to close the investigation.

CatalkoyChris · Post by **CatalkoyChris** » Wed 06 Jul 2016 12:42 pm

Nationwides website states that it has a 2% foreign transaction fee, yet I read on this forum transactions are free?

Which is it? Or am I looking somewhere else?

Bowman · Post by **Bowman** » Wed 06 Jul 2016 12:57 pm

Chris,

I have posted the information that my cash transactions are free, but only if I withdraw Euros from my German IngDiBa VISA card.

So you pay your money and take your chose.

judyvin · Post by **judyvin** » Wed 06 Jul 2016 1:26 pm

It is free if you withdraw cash or pay in sterling. I use my Nationwide in the South and those transactions are in Euros which attract the 2% fee.

blueparrot · Post by **blueparrot** » Thu 07 Jul 2016 8:01 am

As I understand it: First Garanti said the ATM balanced on the day (therefore no error). Finally, under duress, Garanti admits that the ATM was not in balance? This is really not good....unless I have misunderstood something?

Shame we do not have a programme like Radio 4's 'Money Box', to apply pressure and get an explanation.

judyvin · Post by **judyvin** » Fri 08 Jul 2016 7:22 am

Yes indeed blueparrot. The information I received from Nationwide stated that Garanti Bank had said the transaction was successful, which due to Nationwide disputing the wrong card, was correct, but it did also state that the ATM balanced on the day which was why I was very pessimistic about a positive outcome when the dispute was raised on the right card!

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