If the UK leaves the EU.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Wed 04 May 2016 8:21 pm

Kerry,
Without doubt life generally, expectations, welfare, law and order, justice, freedoms within the TRNC are very different to other "European" destinations. France, Spain, Italy, for example. As members of the union we enjoy many benefits shared with other members. I have aired these in previous posts
We should not expect that these distinct benefits will remain in place once and if we become aliens from Europe. People who believe we can go back to how it was in the 70,s pre the union could just as easily align themselves with a Cyprus solution based upon pre 1974.
I don't think so do you?

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Wed 04 May 2016 10:35 pm

Waz
It seems to me that you are very fearful of any change because of your doubt rather than any facts of what will happen.
The UK is one of the richest nations in the world and most of that wealth was gained before any EU came along if you think that all this will fall into a big black hole should we leave then you must think very little of this once great nation.
Your argument seems largely about your passion for unhindered European travel when really out of the possible 500m people within the EU seldom travel anywhere and really have no intention doing so ?

I'm more interested in what business has to say and to be honest very few have spoken about exit yes a few comments from a few fatcats and scaremongering from the in groups but I will listen to any argument if it holds credibility but for me and many more like me don't see or hear any credible facts that leaving the EU will be a disaster.
Lets see what the next few weeks brings in debate on both sides but for me if the in campaign doesn't come up with some genuine believable facts then for me its all over.

erol · Post by **erol** » Thu 05 May 2016 1:52 am

turtle wrote:.... rather than any facts of what will happen.

It seems to me that there are no facts as to what will happen should the UK vote to leave the EU on the majority of issues. There is only speculation as I see it.

I mean, to take one example, it is a fact that the UK will have to renegotiate individual trade deals with countless other countries, all concurrently, should it leave the EU. I think this will inevitably require a significant increase in civil servants to take on this task but maybe I am wrong. Maybe most or all states will just say , no problem we will sign deals on exactly the same terms as when you were in the EU, though if they do one has to wonder what the advantage of leaving the EU was in this regards ? Maybe the UK will be able to concurrently renegotiate all these separate deals on terms more favourable to itself and less favourable to the other party than the terms that were in place previously. Maybe they will not be able to do this and that the 'other parties' will seeks to get more favourable terms for themselves than previously ? We really do not know and really no one knows, it seems to me. It does seem however more likely to me that countries who are only negotiating deals with the UK are inherently in a stronger negotiating position than the UK which would be negotiating such deals simultaneously with large numbers of other countries ?

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Thu 05 May 2016 5:41 am

Was- the largest group of Brits in Southern Europe are made up of retirees or holiday makers, if we leave the EU do really think they wont want our money, where has the majority of Europeans in the UK are their for work if post Brexit a Spaniard wanted to work in the UK they could if they applied for a visa the difference being they would need a employer before they came and the employer would have to show why they couldn't employ a settled person already in UK

kibsolar1999 · Post by **kibsolar1999** » Thu 05 May 2016 7:40 am

turtle wrote:
The UK is one of the richest nations in the world and most of that wealth was gained before any EU came along

well, yes. but please think about how this was achieved. politics of expansion and agression, injustice, slavery, exploitation, murder ( it goes in the millions), want more?
actually nazi methods for many hundred years. same applies for france, spain, portugal, the dutch, germans.
it made europe rich.
but nothing for what you can be the least proud or call it "a once great nation"...
then we had all these many many wars..not only 1st and 2nd worldwar in europe, that were just wars "at home".. british- dutch in asia, or british- frech in africa.. name them..
then the decolonisation started.. (complicated, i make it easy), because they also became too expensive.
nearly all the "great nations" (also the french call themselfs la grande nation) were quite bancrupt and a "european solution" incl. "consolidation" and "pull one string instead war", was the better idea.

it will be no disaster when britain leaves the EU. not tomorrow. also expats can die silently in portugal or wherever, the passport-visa issue will be no big deal.
but what about in 20 years?
eg, the TTIP papers leaked some days ago. maybe the EU will put TTIP down, hopefully.
so, it would be good for the US to make the UK understand that TTIP is a good idea "against the EU". old allies come together again.
and then you will be taken over from the US.

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Thu 05 May 2016 1:36 pm

"The UK is one of the richest nations in the world..." - is it?
Utilities (water/gas/electric) - how many are foreign-owned?
Transport companies (bus/rail) - how many are foreign-owned?
Steel - who in the last few weeks sold off the "British"(?) steel industry?
Car and other vehicle manufacturing - how many are foreign-owned?
Who owns Cadburys, Pilkington Glass, Jaguar/Land Rover, Asda, Harrods, Rolls Royce, Weetabix - and even Camelot (the UK Lottery)... I could go on a long way.
The UK is not an impoverished nation, but it is not "one of the richest" - it is certain "of the richest" people and groups who no doubt acquired and are retaining their riches as a result of this "asset stripping", but the majority are seeing little improvements and in many cases a lessening of income and living standards.
As for TTIP - a means of "legalising" the takeover or destruction of any and all non-US competition.....

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Thu 05 May 2016 1:59 pm

Jofra... http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com/

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Thu 05 May 2016 2:28 pm

But which list - no. 9 or no. 27?
I would suggest "Per Capita" (no. 27) relates more to effect on the people, and regardless of both lists - again, who owns the assets/companies, etc., and therefore where is that money going? EDF - are UK takings subsidising French consumers? Arriva trains and buses - are UK takings subsidising German customers?
It is not where the money is obtained, it's where it ends up....

kibsolar1999 · Post by **kibsolar1999** » Thu 05 May 2016 6:03 pm

doesnt matter which list.. rich is rich.
interesting is the following: china as richset coountry is listed 85th GDP per capita based on population size. india as 3rd richsest, is not listed in the top 100..
so, china and india are not rich.
in GDP per capita based on population size list, out of the first 25 nations, approx 20 are relatively small..
read this
https://publications.credit-suisse.com/ ... AF9341D47E
and you know who is rich.

have a look here
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/arc ... 88153b.jpg
and you can learn which country Britain did NOT conquere durings its "empire times".

anyway, always again interesting how "shy" the britains (and french and dutch and spains and portuguese and belgiums) are when is comes to their own skeletons in the cupboard..

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Thu 05 May 2016 6:43 pm

Jofra, You can't judge a nations wealth just by who owns particular companies ?
These are private companies and yes some are now foreign owned, if you are going to talk about British companies lets talk about Steel...loss making when sold, Cars ...loss making (and poor quality) when shut down, Coal.. loss making and unhealthy and dirty when closed down all state run and were abysmal business performers.

And all the businesses you mention would not be in Euro ownership if we were not in the EU ?

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Thu 05 May 2016 6:51 pm

Kibsolar
Not sure what your fascination is with regards to the "Empire" subject as this thread is about the UK leaving the EU ?

Anyway tell me how many countries tip up over £11billion in foreign aid to at least put some of the wrongs ,...right..... Give us some credit ?

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Thu 05 May 2016 10:07 pm

Turtle
Yes I am fearful of a BREXIT. The UK is currently a European economy deriving massive advantage and benefits from being in that trading union.
The UK has had massive success in old colonial days and remains wealthy in many respects as a result of that success. However the world changes on an almost daily basis. It is business, trade , export of goods and services that pay for our society and country. Our public sector is close to bankruptcy and without overseas trade disaster is almost inevitable. Too much about what the UK has been and not enough forward thinking and thought upon how success and prosperity can be secured or even maintained.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Thu 05 May 2016 10:22 pm

Waz
I think we need to agree to disagree, we have been a member of the common market and the EU for over 40yrs and in that time the UK has been in steady decline.
40 yrs is enough looking forward for me.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Thu 05 May 2016 10:44 pm

Turtle,
You can not possibly put the decline ( disagree on that) down to our membership.
Where do you think we would be now if we had not joined ?
Do you expect the "decline" to stop should we exit?
My case for staying in is based on definable economic fact.
The case to leave appears to be founded only upon how great the UK was before we joined.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Fri 06 May 2016 8:10 am

Kibsolar - you missed the Industrial revolution, the railways, large martime fleet and the ability to trade globally from your list of reason for UK being one of the most prosperous nations.

kibsolar1999 · Post by **kibsolar1999** » Fri 06 May 2016 8:24 am

turtle
"Not sure what your fascination is with regards to the "Empire" subject as this thread is about the UK leaving the EU ?"

i simply believe that the british are not reflective enough... never a proper review of history happened... no apologies...
eg, the british did draw many borders on a piece of paper and now complaint the EU accepts refugees coming from excactly these "oil war" areas? where is the acceptance in britain that the british are (also) responsibility for this?

after the british empire failed, which ended (half) official in 1997 (Hong Kong) and not a felt 1000 years ago and you still have some oversea protectorates which serve now as tax havens also for your rich, ... there was only one way.. "decline".

but always "the others" are guilty.

waz did supply you with some ideas to my "fascination".... based on "definable economic fact", but where is humanity, solidarity?
iam not worried about what will happen after a brexit in the next years.. but what about in 30 or 50 years.. waterloo?
some do not believe "something like this" can happen again.. they are wrong. totally wrong.
to make a commitment: yes, we also do not want that s*** any more, never again, britain should have joined the euro.
not joining meant: we may opt out one day, when it suits us..

UKs GDP is 1,95 trillion GBP, 11 billion foreign aid a year.. peanuts. (for your credit.. with 0,7% of GDP the UK ranks 3rd, after norway and sweden (both approx 1%) )

yesterdays news: a 250.000 euro fine per refugee per year will be introduced from the EU (or a bit less.. we will negotiate..) for nations which will not take refugees. and this in the middle of a brexit discussion, 1.5 month before a referendum..
you can avoid this: vote out
todays news: donald Trump supports a brexit.
you may better vote in.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Fri 06 May 2016 9:37 am

Was- you wrote about forward thinking in a earlier post over the last 12 years the EU has pushed Turkey away usually citing Cyprus has one of the reasons, however it quickly organised visa free travel despite Cyprus , issues with arrest of journalist and worries domestically and internationally about the state of democracy in Turkey.
My problem is not with nationality or individual countries but with the EU Commission and President who because of the size of the electorate give FIFA a run for there money in how modern democracy works.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 07 May 2016 3:00 pm

Kerry,
Like most democracies the EU is far from perfect or even ideal. Fortunately the UK retains full sovereignty and our democratic own government takes precedent in 90% of UK matters.
You have issues with the European administration. This is justifiable given it is made up of 27 members all vying for the best possible deal.
My position is simple. We as the 5th biggest economy in the world with massive trade and investment centred around trade with the union.. The UK cannot afford to close that economic door. Close the door on future inward investment. isolate ourselves from all the benefits that come with being at the European negotiating table. The UK, like Scotland, is not big enough or strong enough to go it alone. We need t be IN

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sat 07 May 2016 4:36 pm

Waz
I think you are brainwashed, if you think a country like ours couldn't survive outside the EU then I think they would never have risked giving us the vote in the first place.

Fortune favours the brave

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 07 May 2016 5:59 pm

Turtle,
This is certainly not a question of survival. The United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Island will survive but in what state or standard.
The question is one of what level of success do we seek should we leave the Union. What are your expectations for Health, Education, defence , social services. freedoms of travel. All these thing are paid for by the private sector who rely on trade, selling goods and services to the world in particularly Europe. The UK certainly has the long standing foundation for trade , business and export of goods and services. Our DTI do a superb job in promoting BUISNESS BRITAIN and attract investment very well. Brainwashed is for the xenophobic lets close the doors brigade!!

Dalartokat · Post by **Dalartokat** » Sat 07 May 2016 6:24 pm

I'm hovering at the moment but slightly leaning towards out...............

http://www.betteroffout.net/the-case/10 ... withdrawl/

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sat 07 May 2016 6:44 pm

Some great facts there Dalartokat,..this is what is needed for people to make a reasoned decision so lets stop scaremongering and playing the guessing game and lets have some FACTS,

Dalartokat · Post by **Dalartokat** » Sat 07 May 2016 6:55 pm

Last week on the radio and I just happened to come across this because in the mornings there is lots of different talk about EU on various radio stations, I think it was LBC radio, not absolutely sure, where someone, in a conversation said that it was not true that if we left the EU we would not be able to trade without agreements. He pointed out that The Treaty of Lisbon was clear that if you joined the EU and later you wanted out, they would have to trade with you.

This has always been a very vocal part of the "in" EU whereby it really concerned me, but now having read it on this "10 myths" it confirms it, which is why I lean to out. My opinion is on this issue, it is scaremongering.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 07 May 2016 7:55 pm

Turtle, Dalartokat,
The Lisbon treaty was set up to offer a level of security to members ejected or who left the Union. Certainly Union Members can buy UK goods and services. If they want!! Lead the horse but cannot make it drink.
Trade agreements will be negotiated on an individual basis and could take years as the Canada EU negotiation...7 years.
What is certain is that the volumes of trade is most unlikely to rise but likely to fall due to the increased amount of cross border movements, administration and tariff barriers. Would you buy from someone who just divorced you?
There is absolutely no commercial or business case for an Exit. Why would we want to take these risks?

erol · Post by **erol** » Sat 07 May 2016 8:51 pm

Dalartokat wrote:Last week on the radio and I just happened to come across this because in the mornings there is lots of different talk about EU on various radio stations, I think it was LBC radio, not absolutely sure, where someone, in a conversation said that it was not true that if we left the EU we would not be able to trade without agreements. He pointed out that The Treaty of Lisbon was clear that if you joined the EU and later you wanted out, they would have to trade with you.

This has always been a very vocal part of the "in" EU whereby it really concerned me, but now having read it on this "10 myths" it confirms it, which is why I lean to out. My opinion is on this issue, it is scaremongering.

Countries outside the EU can and do trade with the rest of the EU on essentially the same terms as countries within the EU do between themselves (Turkey, Switzerland etc ) however in order to be able to do this, those countries have to accept and abide by vast swathes of EU legislation relating to trade, to standards and a host of other areas, without having any input or say in that legislation. I do not think it is scaremongering to say you can not leave the EU in order to be free of it's legislation AND expect to be allowed to trade freely with the EU on the same terms as those countries that DO have to abide by EU legislation. If you want the free, no borders, no customs, no tariffs trade with the EU then you have to accept the EU legislation. If you do not want to be bound by the EU legislation then you have to accept that you will not have free, no borders, no customs, no tariff trade with the EU. This idea that you can have both (free from EU legislation and free trade with EU) is to me unrealistic.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Sat 07 May 2016 9:36 pm

Was - your sounding paranoid if you have a reasoned argument tell us but dont spoil it by labeling everyone who doesn't agree with you has racist / xenophobic.
Everyone agrees if we leave we will still need to trade with " jonnie foreigner "
You are trying to paint a picture of post Brexit UK isolated and ostracised by EU, I could just has easy paint a picture of a UK managing quite well, slowly joined by other EU exits forming alliances and agreements but I dont because like you I dont know so everything you say is speculation.
Do I think BMW will still want to export cars to the UK if we leave , of course.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 07 May 2016 10:05 pm

Kerry
I have presented numerous finite arguments on why an exit would be economically a bad move.
I have not used the term racist on a single post. Indeed the "jonnie foreigner" has distinct racist undertones. The abundance of posts relating to the immigration issue do certainly have a xenophobic feel.
Your stance that the UK will manage quite well carries no credence with me. The UK must actively compete, This is does well now as a union member.
Do you really think the EU will give us all a hug leave also and form a losers club!! Yes BMW will certainly sell us their cars...but .. It is the UK that must build and sell those same BMW's. ( Mini...built in the UK.. exported world wide) That's what pays the way for our country.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 07 May 2016 10:19 pm

Kerry
For the avoidance of doubt.
The Mini car is owned wholly by BMW a German company. The car is built in Cowley near oxford by British work force.( 3000 plus workers) They produce 800 cars every day that is one every 2 minutes. Sold across the world with very strong direct to Europe exports via European Union free trade .
In the event we separate from the Union then free trade to each member state will need to be re negotiated over some time. BMW have already expressed concerns over this hindrance to selling cars into Europe. This means that the company could well move production to within the union to re establish the free trade. This is single example of the potential disaster an exit will mean. Specific enough? Why leave then please?

kibsolar1999 · Post by **kibsolar1999** » Sun 08 May 2016 8:35 am

My firewall tells about the betteroffout page:
This website has been identified as a malware site. Malware infects your computer and can include viruses, worms, spyware and trojan horses.
interesting.
How about this one?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... ignty.html
With a negative trade balance of 200 billion a year, the UK must generate more income (no matter IN or OUT), otherwise the UK drown in debts.. (see to the debt forecast in 2030, the UK will do worse as italy and spain) and i do agree not only with erol (see also kibkom poll) that leaving the EU AND free trade is unrealistic, as the UK will, must!, want (as they opted out) become more “sovereign” and therefore protect the local market (more), also knows as protectionism... which actually nobody wants.
Many, many problems the British have with the EU other members also have. WHY the UK imports as much crude oil as its exports? German milk is exported to greece to produce “greek joghurt” and rexported to germany. Only that the 125 gr package is 0,03 euro cheaper? How comes that spanish tomatoes are cheaper as locally produced in germany? (because in andalusia they have 1 million illegal wells and thousands illegals from africa). Do we want to eat tasteless dutch tomatoes patented from Monsanto?
İtems, goods, joghurt, milk, whatever, are shuffled around, senseless as it seems and “gigaliners” destroy our roads..( 1 gigaliner does as much damage to the road as 30.000 normal cars)
Things MUST change, eg transportation must become much more expensive, also to protect local markets.
As Vaughan said, “my head say stay, my heart says leave”.. i personally do find it far too early and actually, how you say?, impudent, cheeky, of your “rulers” to ask the “normal people” such an important question.
Or as waddo said: “ I really think that MY government gives a damn about which way the vote will go” and : “(Do) I really believe that the UK Government are not capable of making the decision(?)
just for that these idiots should NEVER get one single vote again.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Sun 08 May 2016 9:23 am

Was - The Jonnie foreigner was in Quotation marks has a tongue in cheek response to your constant xenophobic statements for anybody who may possibly disagree with you.
I dont have a stance the UK will do well, the point being you or I dont know what agreements will be negotiated in the 2 years a actual Brexit will take.
in your post you chose to pull at the heart strings regarding 3000 plus British workers, when probably should have said pan European resident in UK workforce
Your choice of the sentance "could move production" means you are speculating / scaremongering " the Mini in particular has a particularly Britsh brand which BMW uses to its advantage.
A quick google can find arguments on both sides
I like the one about the leading IN campaigner appearing before a select committee admitting EU membership adversely affects lower paid workforce. (Reason enough for me to leave)

Has I write this BBC news feeds are reporting general strikes in Greece and anti government demonstration in Poland,

kibsolar1999 · Post by **kibsolar1999** » Sun 08 May 2016 9:33 am

kerry:
feeds are reporting general strikes in Greece and anti government demonstration in Poland

you should start that in the UK tomorrow as well..

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Sun 08 May 2016 10:34 am

Kibsolar - we dont need to because we have been given chance to vote on a major issue, has promised in a recent election by a government feeling under pressure by public feeling at the time, if only van Rumpuy could feel the same pressure from his electorate.

kibsolar1999 · Post by **kibsolar1999** » Sun 08 May 2016 10:40 am

kerry,
i understood that the greek demonstrate against their government, not the Eu in particular..

i make a bet.. no matter you opt in or out.. you will have this kind of demonstations - protests soon anyway.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Sun 08 May 2016 11:26 am

If the Greeks are demonstrating against their Government, it was because they were voted in on a anti EU / austerity ticket which they haven't delivered on.
Theres nothing wrong with protest but in the EU nothing changes, the Greeks will still use soup kitchens, the Poles will accept their quota of asylum seekers or pay the fine and the Germans will still abide by the Dublin agreement, 2 out 3 isn't bad.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 08 May 2016 2:01 pm

Kerry,
My recommendation to remain in the Union is based on economics. I see no evidence that the UK can go it alone and prosper. I think you will be shocked as how easily big ( foreign owned ) manufacturing cam migrate from UK shores to maintain free trade access to the European union.
BMW is indeed a British brand. Built in the UK for the moment. The clubman models are already built outside of the UK.
The Greek and Polish issues cannot possibly be considered as a reason for an Exit. We too have our own internal issues ie junior doctor strikes. Should Wales vote to leave the United Kingdom. Should the Isle of Man seek independence.?
Please do give me some reasons why we should leave on the basis that the UK will prosper and we will all be better off.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Sun 08 May 2016 6:05 pm

Was- I may not be has shocked has you think has a ex employee at a factory transfered to Italy after the EU thought an American company was to uncompetitive if it had two factory's producing Tractors in the UK.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 08 May 2016 6:15 pm

Kerry
That may well be Massey Furguson ?
These decisions are increasingly common as manufacturing bases move around the world to secure commercial advantage. The UK has tremendous advantages and opportunity to maintain a competitive edge. British engineering, design and technology remains at a premium and companies will invest in this advantage. However the same companies must be able to sell their products. The UK as a manufacturing base is firmly a gateway to the European market of nearly 200 million people. To even consider putting this at risk is grave folly in my view.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 08 May 2016 6:43 pm

What is stopping companies (and there are thousands) who have product manufactured in China importing and doing a direct trade deal with the UK side stepping the EU. ?

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 08 May 2016 6:56 pm

Turtle,
The Global economy is extremely complex and changes by the day. Economies like the UK compete for investment and business on the global stage.
Refined economies like those in the G20 know their strengths and capitalise accordingly. China has a cost base advantage given they have a massive population and resources. Labour costs in China are about 12$ US per day. The USA has technology, resources and a skilled populous combined with stable democracy and access to global markets. The UK has technology, engineering, design and a stable democracy with growing economy.
No economy can afford to side step a market as you suggest ALL opportunities and markets MUST be capitalised on. Economies can only expand or decline. The slightest threat to an economy's competitiveness can be devastating. The UK economy is at risk if we leave.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 08 May 2016 7:06 pm

Waz
You make it sound so complicated but as you said earlier its all about "simple economics" yes simple,... you can make it as complicated as you wish.

Can you explain how we could capitalise in a market when we are shackled to rules and regs of the dreaded EU. ?

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Sun 08 May 2016 7:27 pm

No it was Case the plant was sold to Landini who closed the UK plant and transfered production to Italy with the resulting loss of jobs, has we were in the EU at the time it had nothing to do with gaining a gateway to Europe.
What we do know is currently the more prosperous the UK becomes the more the freedom of movement regulations allow the company owners many who are not even European a very large pool of labour resulting in lower wages and massive pressure on the countries infrastructure,

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 08 May 2016 7:34 pm

Turtle,
The EU is indeed rather over burdening with rules and regulations and directives. Some are useful, protecting consumers whilst others present a burden to manufacturers and employers.
Let there be no misunderstanding. IN or OUT. EU regulations prevail. If the UK or indeed any other economy wants to sell into the lucrative European market it will need to show compliance to any applicable EU directives. To vote OUT will not mean we need not conform. Currently the UK has a seat at the table to discuss any legislation or directives. Indeed some have been vetoed by the UK. We are contemplating resigning from that seat. How can that be a good move? The UK currently does very well in the European market. We meet the required standards and directives. We are good, unlike some, at that stuff. Long may it continue.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 08 May 2016 7:57 pm

Kerry, The manufacture of tractors has all but disappeared from the UK. I do not know what caused this decline and exit.
Certainly overseas investors are now common place in the UK. The shift of power globally has been swift and will continue. China, Russia and India are very successful economies with wealth influence and power. The UK cannot compete with for example china's labour costs. It is the case that wealthy business people from these BRIC economies want to invest in the UK. They are attracted by British heritage, democracy, rule of law, stability, and importantly trade and business protocol. We are very good at attracting such investment. To leave the EU changes the field of play and I fear the UK will not be so regularly on the investment radar. Labour costs in UK are now set. the living wage is law. No cheap labour is available. That's in China!! who are outside the EU.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Sun 08 May 2016 8:13 pm

We may have a living wage in law, but zero hour contracts still ensure many find it difficult, I can assure you.
we live in a country were many use food banks to get through the month and charity shops are on the high street not the back street

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 08 May 2016 8:24 pm

Kerry
Agreed,
Yes the UK is far from perfect and there will always be issues and people that either fail or are failed. This is life, Life is often very unfair.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 08 May 2016 9:31 pm

Waz
What is your views of the competition laws ?
Just wondering the way i see it if the UK vote out the EU will impose a no trade policy which i would image would contravene the law itself and bring the EU into disrepute. Yes/No ?

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 08 May 2016 10:31 pm

Competition law is in place to prevent the monopolising of markets and what we would call onward price fixing. I doubt very much that Union members would contravene any laws at all simply because it would not be in their interest. I do think that most Union members want the UK to stay in. No one likes to go through divorce. The aftermath may well have some sour grapes repercussions as many will not rush to our aid with regard to getting favourable( to themselves) trade agreements signed.
I think we will be on the back foot for some time and expect long and difficult negotiations with each country to secure favourable trade terms.
Whilst this uncertainty prevails our economy will certainly suffer as will our people. Speculation you may say but this is the world of global commerce.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 08 May 2016 10:41 pm

I would like to explore the competition law as i feel the the very reason it was brought in will be contravened by an unfair EU who then try to penalise the UK when buying goods.
You simply can not enforce a law just because of a fall out...... Law is law and should be abided by

I will look into this an come back.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Mon 09 May 2016 5:21 am

Was - Life maybe unfair but if your not willing to change anything you are consigning a generation or more of UK citizens to poverty

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Mon 09 May 2016 6:22 am

Was -you said "I see no evidence that the UK can go it alone and prosper"
What about pre EU history
-you said My recommendation to remain in the Union is based on economics
My recommendation to leave is based on how I, my children, my grandchildren,my freinds are effected today.
I've heard the argument being at the table allows us to shape things but it appears to me that all we get is a opt out has the EU carries on expanding

Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

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