New Aviation Club for flying light aircraft in TRNC

[bigOz]

As former Flight instructors and pilots, a group of us met three months ago and created Cyprus General Aviation Association. We have registered our constitution and set off to prepare the ground for a an Aviation Centre at Ercan where we expect to operate from.

So far we have held many meetings with various government and private organisations sorting out the 100LL Avgas required for the light aircraft, got the support/approval of the Civil Aviation Authorities & The Ministry of Transport, convinced the private owners of Ercan to grant us operation rights + plus parking spaces, sorted out the aircraft and personal insurances...

One last hurdle left - which was the mother of all obstacles in our way - that is to get mainland Turkish Civil Aviation Authority's permission to give flying lessons towards obtaining Turkish PPL, IR etc. We expect to visit the relevant Turkish ministries and head offices in Ankara by the end of this month and hopefully get a result.

Our activities are intended also to cover banner towing, touristic air tours over the island, parachute jumping, assisting the coastguard and forestry departments during emergencies, with possible air taxi services in the future...

Watch this space

[Groucho]

Suggestions for the banners on a postcard?

[aljanyoung]

Good news Özer, your hard work is paying off - best wishes Janette

[sophie]

Crikey, that's a first. Thought private flying was banned - good to learn the barriers are being lifted. Congratulations. Just hope the locals who have money to burn are better pilots than they are drivers.

[bigOz]

Thanks Janette and Sophie

There are many TCs who go to Larnaca airport to get their private flying licences. We successfully taught around 16 students back in early Nineties - some of them are now flying Atlas Jet, Pegasus and THY... Unfortunately military restrictions at the time forced us to stop our training.

The position is different now and we have been working for almost a year just to set up the Association. If we sort ot the licences with the Turksh government in Ankara, we shall be organising a ball in the new year (to which all KIBKOM members will also be invited).

According to TRNC rules only TC's can be members to the association an the governing board. However we are negotiating and a new "Associations and Clubs Constitution Structure" is on the Parliment's agenda expected to come into force by the new year. Accordingly all foreign residents living in Cyprus will also be able to become members. However, you will not need to be members to take part in any flight training courses or leisure flights that will take place.

[Ragged Robin]

That is all very well for a few privileged rich, but many of us came to North Cyprus to enjoy peaceful , quiet pursuits in natural unspoilt beauty. Already the scenery and ecology of land and sea have suffered damage -some of it irretrievable. I am disturbed to hear that they skies are now apparently threatened. Private flying and air taxis perhaps if kept within reasonable bounds, and assisting coastguard and fire fighting of course, but oh no , please no - don't disfigure the sky with banners and parachutes. It might attract a few quick bucks from excitement seekers but the novelty will soon wear off and they will move on after driving away yet more loyal residents and repeat tourists who bring in a regular income.

Why type of aircraft will be used, how noisy and how low will they fly and will there be limits to the hours they fly in total?

Has anyone considered the effect on animals - wild, feral, domestic and particular agricultural?

And keep those parachutists well away from my garden, the dogs have already indicated willingness to take on the Air Force if it comes within reach, goodness know what they would do to a parachute!

At least this is being situated at Ercan - but does it has anything to do with the proposal to build a private airfield on of the few bit of coastline still accessible to the general public at Catalköy?

[bigOz]

I feel your real concern is expressed in the last statement of your post RR... However I will answer your questions:

This will be a serious Flight School operating out of Ercan and possibly Geçitkale. The type of aircraft and noise levels will all be within European and Turkish limits and I do not see why they should be a problem to anyone, since the flights will be over open countryside at high altitudes and not above residential areas. The noise of trucks and cars rallying on most roads is the one you should be more concerned about! - By the way I am forever disturbed by my neighbour's two dogs barking all day!

You clearly lack knowledge on the subject of flying. The "effect on animals - wild, feral, domestic and particular agricultural" is not something people are worried about in this day and age, because they are all catered for by the "Rules Of the Air" and the "Aviation Laws" - with which even we primitive Cypriots have to abide by (and do so!).

No one has the right to OR can limit the number of hours or times anyone wishes to fly.

Parachutes and hang gliders are already soaring in the coastal skies every Summer - I never heard of anyone being disturbed by them or complain! I honestly do not see what kind of pollution you are talking about when a banner towing aircraft flies along the coast - a mile out over the sea! In Florida and many other touristic coastlines banner towing goes on all the time - I am not aware of any negative effects on the tourist activity in these parts of the world.

As for your final question; NO! we have nothing to do "with the proposal to build a private airfield on of the few bit of coastline still accessible to the general public at Catalköy". In fact, we dismissed the idea 3 months ago, for the very reasons you expressed in your post, together with the idiot who was responsible for the article in Cyprus Today. He was expelled from our Association long before he called and informed Cyprus Today of his own "ambitions and plans". You can rest assured that no such project can possibly be given the go ahead by the local Kaymakamlık or Belediye! As responsible aviators we would also stand against such proposals.

Flying is not for the privileged few at all. Many young people from TRNC have to go to Larnaca or Turkey (even UK) and spend a fortune to train as pilots! Our main purpose is to provide this service at home for both Cypriots and Turkish main landers because we have the advantage of good flying conditions throughout the year.

Finally, I do not think we will give up beneficial and good social activities as such in our community because some people coming in from abroad feel TRNC should be an Old People's Home! Of course they are most welcome in our country, and we will dıo our v-best to treat them with courtesy, but please please do not bring over the extreme political correctness rubbish into our yard and start making idle complaints. We do love our country and have no intention of spoiling its beauty...

[dippersgirl]

Do you know if people who own a light aircraft in England, would be able to fly here, maybe if the have touched down in Turkey first?? My friends in England have a light aircraft and have flown all over Europe. Or is it just too much hassle and it would be better to land in the South?

[bigOz]

Do you know if people who own a light aircraft in England, would be able to fly here, maybe if the have touched down in Turkey first?? My friends in England have a light aircraft and have flown all over Europe. Or is it just too much hassle and it would be better to land in the South?

One of our activities will be to encourage / invite aircraft owners in Europe to travel to North Cyprus. We already have contacts with some clubs whose members wish to visit the island in groups of 10-20 aircraft at a time.

Civilian light aircraft have no problems visiting the island and flying over here via Turkey. They will have to fly over via Turkey not only for political reasons but also for refueling. I think the parking fees at Ercan would be very high at this time though - and touring over the island could become a problem for foreigners. This is something we are trying to sort out with the TRNC Civil Aviation Authorities at the moment - and hope to do so in the New Year.

But there is nothing stopping them from flying into Ercan and parking there... To land at Larnaca, they will have to fly to one of the Greek islands in the Agean Sea (near İzmir) - refuel and fly down South. But they cannot fly from Larnaca to Ercan.

I will keep you informed of the developments because there are advantages of stationing your aircraft in Ercan. You can fly to any tourist resort along the Agean or South coast of Turkey for a day trip, in an hour or two. And there are many beautiful places to visit

[Ragged Robin]

Oz There was nothing in my post was about "political correctness" : it all stemmed from a long time affection for and knowledge of this country and its inhabitants ((though I think I am now making an exception) and concern that is shared by many locals about the thoughtless damage that is being done by greed and catering to sensation seekers to the environment and beauty of the countryside and its seas and skies (which ultimately is what attracts people to it) It had nothing whatsoever to do with age - though it does seem you are prejudiced. Young people (in fact probably more of them) care about the environment too ! Neither was it personal attack and your last paragraph is extremely and unnecessarily hurtful and offensive and, if I wanted to be nasty, slanderous.

I agree with you about road noise - but too wrongs dont make a right! I also get disturbed by dogs barking and try to keep my own as quiet as possible but there is a lot to disturb them - one of the reasons I needed to know about the height and noise of aircraft! but please dont go off topic onto another argument about dogs . And I have heard of herds of wild and agricultural animals being stampeded by low flying light aircraft.

No I am not an expert on flight and flying, but I am surprised by your statement that flying conditions are ideal "throughout the year" : I would have thought our winter storms and winds would be a hazard to even modern light aircraft! I have noticed a very few light aircraft and paragliders etc. in summer (and also some banners which were garish and inappropriate) , but insufficient to make a significant impact: it is a matter of numbers in a very small country, where lot of countryside is mountainous - and there is such a thing as visual pollution, I've seen videos of reacreational parachuting etc. in other countries where the skies and views were overwhelmed by them.

Residents of Florida have protested about the effect on their lives and terrible damage to the environment of irresponsible tourism though I admit I havent hear much about small aircraft except in the area of crop spraying.

It is going o.t. but your comment about "primitive cypriots" suggest you should get the chip of your shoulder: I certainly said nothing to suggest my views were against any particular race enjoying this activity. I would need to know more about the regulations to be reassured by you adherence to compliance : internationally and commercially they may be concened with safety, but environmental and social issues seem to be easily overriden.

I am glad to hear that the proposals for Catalkoy is not part of your proposals and is not going ahead: but please try to understand that posters are entitled to express their concerns and ask questions about issues which efffect them and things they care for : and spiteful and prejudiced attacks on them do not further your cause

[bigOz]

RR I think there is a serious misunderstanding here! If you knew me or read my posts in the past, you would know I do not beat round the bush and tell things straight. If my style of expression offends you than I am sorry you feel that way - but I never make judgments about other persons character based on a a post or two - as your kind self seem to be doing in your response!

You had stated previously:
1. "That is all very well for a few privileged rich..." - NOT TRUE!
2. "I am disturbed to hear that they skies are now apparently threatened." NOT TRUE!

Hence I had to respond to these assumptions/unfair accusations. I do not have any chips on my shoulders either - what on earth made you think that? If you start asking questions like:
"What type of aircraft will be used, how noisy and how low will they fly and will there be limits to the hours they fly in total?"
"Has anyone considered the effect on animals - wild, feral, domestic and particular agricultural?"
I have the right to think you are patronizing - have I not? To ask these you must be assuming the Cypriots have no knowledge of or any consideration for such things. Any government authority on aviation, flight academies, and flight instructors do know and must take into consideration such matters which are also covered by laws and legislation.

FYI, I learned to fly and got my licences in UK (where I lived for more than 25 years) - including my flight instructors rating. Whether you believe it or not, Cyprus does have ideal flying conditions for most of the year! After flying in atrocious UK weather for many years, me and many pilot friends of mine from UK found flying in Cyprus a child's play My instructor was right in telling me "Oz, if you learn to fly in England, there is no other country on earth you cannot fly in"...

If you read carefully, my last statement was not a personal attack directed at you, but any overseas resident who try to bring over the "political correctness gone mad" ideas with them to Cyprus - which we can do without at this time. You would have understood my reaction if you knew what we have been going through as founders of this Association. The amount of bureaucracy, number of ministries and departmental heads to visit and satisfy, liaising with the military, obtaining special fuel for light aircraft, finding someone to insure the aircraft and people flying over unrecognised TRNC, getting operation rights in Ercan and/or Geçitkale, getting the Turkish Civil Aviation Authority and relevant Ministries to recognize the training we shall be giving in TRNC etc.

By the way, the animals stampeding takes place where low flying, noisy military jets operate. Not where high altitude single engine light aircraft training is given. I am glad you admit not knowing much about flying, but is that not a good reason for not making assumptions before asking the questions you did?

I did/do not intend offending you or anyone else in a forum, but sometimes people get the the wrong idea and do get offended, because writing posts with no tone, physical expression or face in view is not same as having social conversations. Wrong signals may and are received. So I stand by with what I said before - with no offence intended to anyone

[Ragged Robin]

Oz Patronising! This sound like the pot calling the kettle black: If YOU read My post you will see I am the one usually in trouble because I attack expats who want to turn this country into "little Britain" and criticize and try to change the culture, And re your last post: please do not confuse "primitive " with "simple and natural"!

The concept of private aircraft is not part of Cyrus culture, and you appear to be the one introducing British activities and I can't see your objection to my seeking clarification of the objects and effects it will have. I did not assume "Cypriots have no knowledge of these things" on the contrary I admitted I have little (or to be exact what I have is out of date) which is why I sought more knowledge . However I suspect the majority of residents, Cypriot or expat, dont really know much about private flying and by saying "apparently" I gave you the opportunity to explain how your proposed activities affect all residents: instead you chose to make bald statements which suggest people are idiots who dont share your enthusiasms.

I agree posts on a forum can be misunderstood, and I am one of those guilty of ambiguity by posting too hurrriedly .Howrever I find forums spoilt, including this, because so many people are unable to conduct a discussion to find out and understand another's point of view, or where appropriate oppose it constructively. Instead the only response argument , seeking informaiton or constructive criticism is to attack the poster, which is what you did in the last post, and of course counter attach is a natural reaction.And I suppose I am one of those guilty of ambiguity by posting in a hurry!

Three more points - seeking reassurance if you can think of it that way:

1 You are obviously a very experienced pilot. There are a lot of youngsters on the roads with very expensive fast cars and little knowledge of how to drive them? How are you going to select, train and discipline them in the air?

2. All sections of the community are complaining about the danger on the roads from obtrusive advertisements. Even if they are high in the sky banners may well be a distraction as well as an eyesore (this is not PC, it is common sense)

3. The silver lining behind the cloud of Cyprus politics is we have little heavy industry and clear and beautiful night skies. And there is comparatively little commercial and military air traffic. Commercial may be inevitable, and will be a mixed blessing, one hopes and prays there will never again be need for military .
But to what extent are private aircraft going to affect the air pollution for the benefit of a minority enthusiasm group?



Rich and privileged is a matter of where you are standing. For me and most of the people meet, of whatever race, a trip in a private aircraft would be at best a once in a lifetime treat! The time and money to learn to fly one way out of the question when we struggle for basic necessities.
?

[bigOz]

Please allow me to assure you on the subjects concerning your questions:

1. In every country there are youngsters driving crazily because they have not matured enough or had the experience to realize the dangers of driving. In countries moving towards Middle East, things are a lot worse because the driving instruction and licencing requirements are a lot more relaxed! When someone gets their new licence, they have to look death few times in the face whilst driving before they learn the correct way of using the car, because they were never taught properly in the first instance. One cannot compare driving with flight training.

Flying requires a set standard of training and licecing requirements, including health checks. Every country including Turkey has to follow the rules laid down by ICAO first and their local regulatory Civil Aviation body next. Every instructor goes through a training process and when qualified they follow the same teaching process/subjetcs both in practice and theory. This linternational standardisation leaves no room for training bad pilots. The very rare but biggest problem is, some airlines failing to employ pilots who can speak English. English being the standard Aviation language. This can cause havoc and many dangers when pilots fly internationally - but the airlines discovered as such would face very high penalties by the relevant authorities.

There is a natural selection process for training pilots - if an instructor feels the student pilot is not fit or will be a danger to himself and others - that would be the end of that ambition. Even if the instructor allowed the student to carry on, an examiner who is usually from another school or examining body, will fail the student after an extensive flight test.

2. I think I had already explained what banner towing would involve (if it ever happened) and it would not concern the areas you mention in this part. I had witnessed banner towing over the sea near the coastlines in other countries and I really see no major dramas there. You can hardly hear the noice of the aircraft and if anyone does not wish to see, they simply do not make an effort to look up. It would definitely not be an eye sore for me because the only time I would face the hot bright sky would be when I am sun bathing - with my eyes shut of course

3. The "minority enthusiasm group" you refer to happen to be more than 1000 membership applications at this time, with a potential of twice as many who are currentlry inquiring and showing interest - and those exclude the foreign residents who cannot be members under the current constitutional laws in TRNC. We expect this to be the biggest club or association present on both sides of the island, with most number of members - not exactly a "minority group" is it?

I have no idea why you keep thinking flying as a "privilaged rich man's hobby". Many hard up people go through hell to train as pilots, either because they genuinely love flying (and you would not know unless you were doing it yourself) or because they end up getting good pay after qualifying as commercial pilots and can afford to pay back any loans or debts they built up during the process. AND if there are wealthy people who wish to fly private aircraft that are a lot cheaper than the yatchs littering the old harbour, who are we to stop them?

What you must also remember is, rich people with private planes do not go round in circles over an area 50 km by 100 km all day! They use them as means of convenient transport to nearby foreign airfields and towns, both for business and leisure. I would personally be more concerned with the "banana" towing speed boats and the jet skies, which are not only a true source of noise and visual pollution but a danger to many snorklers and swimmers. And whilst we are at it - lets get rid of the sight seeing yatchs blasting out loud disco music and often parking at the most popular beaches.

[Ragged Robin]

We appear to agree on so much Oz, it is a pity I dont feel more reassured about private aircraft. I do agree with what you say about driving, speed boats and jet skis (which also drive dolphins away from our shores) and loud music to which I would add sea side cafes which play music so loud I (with slightly imperfect hearing) can hear it swimming underwater - what effect on marine life of that!

Let me be specific about banners (which, presumably for advertising and thus of necessity highly visible) :

On the first occasion I saw here I was walking facing east and stopped to watch a flock of birds and enjoy the backdrop of mountains silhouetted against the evening sky when a large day glow excrescence apparently drifted across the view. It took a moment to work out what it was from the drone of the towing aircraft and the 'plane itself was comparatively difficult to spot!

On the second I was enjoying the unusual experience for me of being a passenger in the car and being able to watch the view of sea and sky (and a couple of fishing boats and a nice quiet, inoffensive and comparatively cheap sailing dinghy) instead of concentrating on the traffic. A large multicolour object suddenly appearing in the sky over the beach in the centre of the windscreen started me . I have to congratulate my driver - I think few drivers, however skilled and experienced would have been able to avoid a few seconds distraction to identity an strange object '- and that is the few seconds when accidents occur. In fact the car in front did actually swerve but luckily corrected in time.

In neither case was I staring at the sky or sun , in the first I had my back to the sun and in the second wearing sunglasses and through a tinted windscreen! And both were at low level .

We have to agree to differ because I still feel this is another step in the direction of North Cyprus becoming a rich man's paradise at the expense of ordinary people of all races trying to enjoy its natural advantages.

[bigOz]

Cyprus has already become a rich mans paradise for different reasons...

Yes we have to agree to disagree because our aviation activities are aimed at primarily training the local youth who may want to make a profession out of it and training those adults who love flying but cannot afford to go abroad to do it. And to do that at a fraction of a cost that is in Europe, we need to supplement our expenses with other aviation activities - which in my opinion will not cause much bother to anyone.

[Johnsin]

Hi all,
I'm considering a move to North Cyprus. Im a retiring airline pilot and am currently building a Vans RV-7 aircraft. May I ask for information as to whether this would be allowable in North Cyprus, and more importantly whether there is any scope for teaching others to build their own aircraft, and whether I would be able to fly it once it's completed and has a certificate of airworthiness? Are there any others out there doing the same?

[kerry 6138]

When you say a fraction of the costs, what would be cost for 1 hour lesson or what is the cost to gain the ppl.?

[sophie]

Have just realised that posts have jumped from 2014 to 2016 and if you have been beavering way all this time, then I do admire your perseverance/ I sincerely hope it pays off.

[kerry 6138]

Well spoted sophie

[David]

Maybe Big oz could give us an update