Have you watched the Brexit Movie ?

Geoff1131 · Post by **Geoff1131** » Tue 14 Jun 2016 9:01 pm

No sorry waz. I've just had a word with myself and we have decided to go ahead and vote out.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Tue 14 Jun 2016 9:45 pm

Geoff1131,
No great surprise but can you not see the clear facts that are now there to be seen. No scaremongering or banter just FACT. The UK economy and currency has seen a massive loss in past few days. What level of decline are you willing to accept to hold your course please? Investors have clearly identified the looming risk and are leaving the UK and that's just the lead up to the 23rd. Perhaps you think that immigrants will follow this financial exodus.
Let it be clear. The sacrifice of the UK economy is NOT a solution to the fear of immigration.

erol · Post by **erol** » Tue 14 Jun 2016 11:14 pm

My vote is in the post.

(and not in the sense of 'the cheque is in the post' either. It really is in the post)

Geoff1131 · Post by **Geoff1131** » Wed 15 Jun 2016 6:10 am

Sorry waz, the financial scaremongering does not work with me. Lets look at the markets and what is happening. If the uk exit is causing the FT to drop and the Pound to weaken because of the threat of the exit camp winning. Why then is the Japanese Yen going up? they are not even in Europe? The German government bonds are dropping in value. Why is this? after all Germany are not going to leave the eu?

Yes the markets do not like uncertainty and the drops in the uk will reverse themselves in time in or out of the eu. I have lived through the ups and downs of the ft and the uk pound strengths and weaknesses to know that it is only a temporary thing.

My opinion ( and that is all I am saying ) is that the uk will be more successful outside the euro club. The common market was and is a good trading idea but it has grown into a bloody monster. People say we should stay in Europe and change it from within, but the way the organisation is structured it does not lend itself to reform from within. Germany seem to steamroll all the decisions through whether or not other counties agree or not.

Lots of influential people have said that leaving the eu will not be a disaster for the uk. Mr King the previous head of the BOE has said that the reports coming out of the remain camp are not true so I am quite prepared to quit the club and let our government GOVERN.

One last point, a 2% drop is hardly a MASSIVE drop!!!!!! this is just another way the scaremongers try to frighten folk.

kibsolar1999 · Post by **kibsolar1999** » Wed 15 Jun 2016 7:14 am

FTSE down, DAX down, Eurostoxx50 down, CAC40 down.

10 year german federal bonds now at minus 0,003%= investors get less out as they payed, minus the inflation.
result of this situation: in 2008, germany payed 40 billion interest rates, next year a 19 billion are allocated.
just from that "profit" germany pays the "EU membership".
as waz said: "... Savings from EU subscriptions fade into insignificance....", but all "better be IN facts" are not important for brexit supporters.
we want our country back, we want our government to govern.. this stuff is more important.

but, you will not get your country back with a brexit.
you want your government to govern? they can. they can govern all day long... but the british government did and does not and there are no plans to govern after the 23rd, no matter IN or OUT.
well, this can be an interesting situation, but i know this only from my childhood and during i fell in love...

fact is, even after a brexit, minimum 90 % of all EU regulations will remain. because they are good, logical, agreeable.

fact is also that the british government has to apply for a brexit to the EU. only after that, exit negotiations can start.
you may have new elections..till then, we will see the first tendencies of a brexit, as maybe GBP down, FTSE down, first companies leaving the UK, london moving to frankfurt.. and so on.
it would be interesting to see who will be PM and when such a brexit application ever will reach the EU .

mickhm · Post by **mickhm** » Wed 15 Jun 2016 8:56 am

Why is it that the markets are falling because they fear we will be voting out? It could be they are falling because they fear we will vote in. Just as likely

WotNoDeeds · Post by **WotNoDeeds** » Wed 15 Jun 2016 9:54 am

eyebob94 · Post by **eyebob94** » Wed 15 Jun 2016 5:10 pm

Simple choice, be ruled by an unelected elite, or get back power to make our on laws and decisions, VOTE LEAVE

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Wed 15 Jun 2016 5:19 pm

An interesting article, which raises various items in favour of and against joining/leaving/being a member/not being a member, what and how much contribution is made, what laws/regulations are imposed or not, what tariffs are imposed etc. - something for every point of view here.... and selective quotes are sure to appear...

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 15 Jun 2016 6:12 pm

Don't care either way now - just be glad when its over and all these stupid banners will disappear! I suppose then there will be another thread called "Told you so" or "Who was to blame", life will go on as it always has and the masses will find something else to moan and complain about! Another footballer will be accused of something and the press will follow that story or dig up some other dirt on somebody else.

The world will turn, the sun will rise and fall, we will all be better/worse off - maybe that is just normal anyway. Good luck to all three sides on the 23rd and I really, really, really hope that one side wins.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Wed 15 Jun 2016 7:32 pm

Geoff1131 wrote:Sorry waz, the financial scaremongering does not work with me. Lets look at the markets and what is happening. If the uk exit is causing the FT to drop and the Pound to weaken because of the threat of the exit camp winning. Why then is the Japanese Yen going up? they are not even in Europe? The German government bonds are dropping in value. Why is this? after all Germany are not going to leave the eu?

Yes the markets do not like uncertainty and the drops in the uk will reverse themselves in time in or out of the eu. I have lived through the ups and downs of the ft and the uk pound strengths and weaknesses to know that it is only a temporary thing.

My opinion ( and that is all I am saying ) is that the uk will be more successful outside the euro club. The common market was and is a good trading idea but it has grown into a bloody monster. People say we should stay in Europe and change it from within, but the way the organisation is structured it does not lend itself to reform from within. Germany seem to steamroll all the decisions through whether or not other counties agree or not.

Lots of influential people have said that leaving the eu will not be a disaster for the uk. Mr King the previous head of the BOE has said that the reports coming out of the remain camp are not true so I am quite prepared to quit the club and let our government GOVERN.

One last point, a 2% drop is hardly a MASSIVE drop!!!!!! this is just another way the scaremongers try to frighten folk.

Geoff
Simple.... the Japanese Yen has risen as sterling has fallen. Japan represents a safe and less risky investment than the UK is under threat of divorce.
Germany .... German government bonds and other returns on investments within the EU are likely to also fall to an extent due to a secondary decline in confidence after UK BREXIT.
The Markets are sending a very clear message. I said this some 6 weeks ago in a previous post. 2% is a massive drop representing £ billions, The trend is rather more worrying and I expect further decline upon BREXIT as investor confidence evaporates. The whole in the UK economy will progressively enlarge as investment migrates from the UK back into the FREE MARKET economy. Rest assured the rest of Europe will make a killing as EU member countries offer incentives to multinational businesses to relocate back into Europe. This is a lose lose scenario without doubt.

People of the UK please consider these points as items of fact. REMAIN IN

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Wed 15 Jun 2016 7:57 pm

mickhm wrote:Why is it that the markets are falling because they fear we will be voting out? It could be they are falling because they fear we will vote in. Just as likely

mickhm,

Markets and investors are driven by opportunity, confidence, risk and profit. Negative and or positive signals within an economy will quickly stimulate a response from investors.
The UK is currently in the EU and a successful economy. Investor confidence has been good. It is the BREXIT that has stimulated a negative response leading to UK FTSE and sterling to decline, There are no investor negatives associated with a REMAIN IN it is status quo.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Wed 15 Jun 2016 8:02 pm

Sir Alan Sugar Highly respected entrepreneur.
Stephen Hawking Highly respected Astro physicist
Sir Bob Geldof Highly respected philanthropist

Thank you for supporting REMAIN IN.

WotNoDeeds · Post by **WotNoDeeds** » Wed 15 Jun 2016 8:58 pm

PapaBravo · Post by **PapaBravo** » Thu 16 Jun 2016 1:25 pm

Waz wrote:

However, you both fail to offer any plausible alternatives and how the same will create prosperity for the "independent" UK.

Well, I have not noticed any arguments from you about how the UK will create prosperity any time soon by remaining in the EU.

The fact is that NOBODY knows for sure what will happen to the UK and the EU if Brexit occurs.

I delayed watching the Brexit movie because I thought it would be full of unjustifiable predictions, scaremongering and rhetoric, and the fact that it was 71 minutes long! Well, I finally allocated the time to watch it, and a couple of the other links and, in my humble opinion, the case for Brexit is well made.

I was incensed that all those UNELECTED and UNACCOUNTABLE bureaucrats in Brussels with their enormous salaries and expense accounts, and their own exclusive shopping malls are being funded in part by my taxes. It was no surprise to see how many regulations cover the simplest of products, because they appear to have nothing to do to earn their obscene remuneration other than to think up new ways to complicate our lives.

At the end of the day the IN supporters will not convince the OUT supporters, and vice versa; it is the Undecided who will decide the result. I just hope that many of those who are undecided watch the movie. Incidentally, is there a similar movie that attempts to make the case to remain in the EU? I would certainly watch it to see an alternative view.

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Thu 16 Jun 2016 5:22 pm

The Gear!

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Thu 16 Jun 2016 7:06 pm

PapaBravo wrote:Waz wrote:
However, you both fail to offer any plausible alternatives and how the same will create prosperity for the "independent" UK.
Well, I have not noticed any arguments from you about how the UK will create prosperity any time soon by remaining in the EU.

The fact is that NOBODY knows for sure what will happen to the UK and the EU if Brexit occurs.

I delayed watching the Brexit movie because I thought it would be full of unjustifiable predictions, scaremongering and rhetoric, and the fact that it was 71 minutes long! Well, I finally allocated the time to watch it, and a couple of the other links and, in my humble opinion, the case for Brexit is well made.

I was incensed that all those UNELECTED and UNACCOUNTABLE bureaucrats in Brussels with their enormous salaries and expense accounts, and their own exclusive shopping malls are being funded in part by my taxes. It was no surprise to see how many regulations cover the simplest of products, because they appear to have nothing to do to earn their obscene remuneration other than to think up new ways to complicate our lives.

At the end of the day the IN supporters will not convince the OUT supporters, and vice versa; it is the Undecided who will decide the result. I just hope that many of those who are undecided watch the movie. Incidentally, is there a similar movie that attempts to make the case to remain in the EU? I would certainly watch it to see an alternative view.

PapaBravo,
If you read my previous posts then you will become aware of the economic case to remain IN.
Put simply....The UK currently enjoys a strong position economically in the World and Europe. Being the 5th Larges economy on the planet. Our trade Within the FREE Market economy of Europe, the largest free market in the world of some 500 million consumers allows and promotes prosperity.
As Europe rises out of recession and its economy recovers then the UK is very well placed indeed to secure additional prosperity. If we divorce ourselves from Europe, its FREE market and its consumers then of course that is all at significant risk.

PapaBravo your dissatisfaction with European bureaucrats is clear and well founded. Reform is certainly needed and I agree. A BREXIT will definitely hinder our ability to achieve reform and change that is needed. To be away from the negotiating table and indeed outside the room looking through the window is simply not a solution or a reason to vote OUT. Remain IN to lead, negotiate for change, reform and secure prosperity.

I think many undecided voters will decide this next few days. Certainly the economic case is clear and a level of certainty upon the damage to the UK economy is being played out in markets and currencies this week Sterling has hit a 5 year low and investment has already moved away from the UK FTSE.
The facts are there. Can you really carry the financial loss of BREXIT and do you expect us all to carry similar loss

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Thu 16 Jun 2016 7:12 pm

WotNoDeeds wrote:

What Sir is your alternative to the PM
Mr Farage OR possibly Mr Johnson.

How far right should UK politics go?
Are we the NEW master race above all other human beings?

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Thu 16 Jun 2016 7:48 pm

How can DC run the country if there is a Brexit?
Not only has he failed to secure any reasonable reform how will he have any creditabillty in negotiations after
He is a lame duck and is finished as a British politician

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Thu 16 Jun 2016 8:02 pm

waz-24-7 wrote:Geoff1131,
No great surprise but can you not see the clear facts that are now there to be seen. No scaremongering or banter just FACT. The UK economy and currency has seen a massive loss in past few days. What level of decline are you willing to accept to hold your course please? Investors have clearly identified the looming risk and are leaving the UK and that's just the lead up to the 23rd. Perhaps you think that immigrants will follow this financial exodus.
Let it be clear. The sacrifice of the UK economy is NOT a solution to the fear of immigration.

Surely the losses are due to scaremongering by the remain sides prophecies of doom following Brexit.... downright irresponsible in my opinion.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Thu 16 Jun 2016 8:04 pm

turtle wrote:How can DC run the country if there is a Brexit?
Not only has he failed to secure any reasonable reform how will he have any creditabillty in negotiations after
He is a lame duck and is finished as a British politician

If BREXIT is the outcome next week then Mr Cameron will struggle to maintain his position as leader of the Conservative party.
However given the support for the IN vote by all the other major parties I fear we are left scraping the barrel with Mr Farage and his ultra right wing strategy as a distinct possibility with UKIP. Mr Johnson may join Farage in coalition to form a very delicate seat of power. OR will all the major parties have a major re shuffle and move policies further to the right to keep the BREXIT camp on side.
The whole BREXIT saga could change the face of UK politics.

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Thu 16 Jun 2016 8:05 pm

waz-24-7 wrote:
WotNoDeeds wrote:
How far right should UK politics go?
Are we the NEW master race above all other human beings?

Why do you now try and characterise those who would vote leave as being far-right and supremacists by implication?

Outrageous slur... epic fail!

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Thu 16 Jun 2016 8:15 pm

Groucho wrote:
waz-24-7 wrote:Geoff1131,
No great surprise but can you not see the clear facts that are now there to be seen. No scaremongering or banter just FACT. The UK economy and currency has seen a massive loss in past few days. What level of decline are you willing to accept to hold your course please? Investors have clearly identified the looming risk and are leaving the UK and that's just the lead up to the 23rd. Perhaps you think that immigrants will follow this financial exodus.
Let it be clear. The sacrifice of the UK economy is NOT a solution to the fear of immigration.
Surely the losses are due to scaremongering by the remain sides prophecies of doom following Brexit.... downright irresponsible in my opinion.

Groucho,
Scaremongering or not the markets are clear in their assessment of the risk. The UK out of the EU represents a poor bet and unlikely to return a profit on investment. Now.... in the VERY unlikely event the UK economy experiences an instant and massive growth surge immediately after a BREXIT, then investment will return. No one but no one has provided any reasoning as to how or why such a surge will happen. Quite the contrary businesses and corporations have most clearly indicated how they will reduce or halt investment or even depart UK shores. This is a serious matter to be considered in next few days.
REMAIN IN to safeguard the UK economy, jobs, prospects and prosperity. There is still time to make the best choice

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Thu 16 Jun 2016 8:26 pm

Groucho wrote:
waz-24-7 wrote:
WotNoDeeds wrote:
How far right should UK politics go?
Are we the NEW master race above all other human beings?
Why do you now try and characterise those who would vote leave as being far-right and supremacists by implication?

Outrageous slur... epic fail!

Groucho
The post asks a question requesting a response. No slur there Sir.

However given your comment.
Surely you have seen and or read the outpourings against Mr Farage for his racist and xenophobic attitude to immigration.
It is UKIP and Mr Farage that lead the BREXIT campaign and upon a successful BREXIT, rest assured his goal will be to secure the top job in government. His ultra right wing aspirations are clear and fortunately he failed in the last attempt to win power.

WotNoDeeds · Post by **WotNoDeeds** » Thu 16 Jun 2016 8:44 pm

Get Britain OUT of the EU

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Thu 16 Jun 2016 8:51 pm

[

Thanks No Deeds

One is dead and the other is History.
No basis for an OUT vote.

Let reasoned and rational thinking prevail over slogans devoid of rational or reasoned content.

Geoff1131 · Post by **Geoff1131** » Thu 16 Jun 2016 9:23 pm

Still flogging that poor old dead horse I see waz!!!!!!! You are sounding more and more desperate as each day passes.

I'm still out by the way!!!!

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Thu 16 Jun 2016 10:22 pm

Was 24 7-The whole BREXIT saga could change the face of UK politics.

Some thing positive to say at last, imo the change started when Corbyn was voted leader of the Labour Party on a ground swell of grass roots support against the Labour elite , not dissimilar from the feeling against the EU,CBI,BoE,TUC and all the other letters of the alphabet that think they know best.

hillend · Post by **hillend** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 2:34 am

The monster that is the E U, has grown beyond all expectation, time to slay the monster ? it will get bigger , and cost more to feed . The monster keepers have had it to good for to long why would the want to change it .

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 5:29 am

waz-24-7 wrote:
Groucho
The post asks a question requesting a response. No slur there Sir.

However given your comment.
Surely you have seen and or read the outpourings against Mr Farage for his racist and xenophobic attitude to immigration.
It is UKIP and Mr Farage that lead the BREXIT campaign and upon a successful BREXIT, rest assured his goal will be to secure the top job in government. His ultra right wing aspirations are clear and fortunately he failed in the last attempt to win power.

Unfortunately the leave campaign have chosen a poor figurehead but they will ditch him pronto...

The stay campaign would love to be able to identify the whole of the leave argument with Farage - but the truth could not be more different... In the event of Brexit he will not be given any more credence than he is now. It's the public vote in the general election that would ensue (I can't see the stay campaign being able to withstand the humiliation) that counts and most people see him for the numpty he is but it suits your narrative to try and portray him as the face of Brexit when in fact he will remain a loser as he was at the last elections - We are not fooled by the stay campaign...

Please don't attempt to paint us into a corner of being in cahoots with Farage - he is only one man - we will find better, more balanced individuals to lead us.... It's not the case that if you support Brexit you de facto support Farage or his non-Brexit related political views or policies and you know it!

PapaBravo · Post by **PapaBravo** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 8:21 am

waz wrote

Can you really carry the financial loss of BREXIT and do you expect us all to carry similar loss

I seem to remember dire predictions and similar questions being asked when we were about to exit the ERM. As it turned out, the economy improved significantly as a result of our decision to leave.

Surely you have seen and or read the outpourings against Mr Farage for his racist and xenophobic attitude to immigration.

That is your opinion of the man. Others, including myself disagree. I see him as someone trying to protect his country from being overrun by UNCONTROLLED immigration. The Press have a way of putting a spin on everything he says and there are those who want to believe every word.

Nobody really KNOWS whether we will be better or worse off, whichever way the vote goes. "He who dares wins"

WotNoDeeds · Post by **WotNoDeeds** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 8:26 am

"There Are None So Blind As Those Who Will Not See"

Mass economic immigration will DESTROY Britain if we don't act now.

thornaby · Post by **thornaby** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 8:53 am

As Farage quite rightly put it, the EU is not undemocratic it is anti democratic! I know how I will be voting! OUT, OUT, OUT!

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 9:03 am

waz-24-7 wrote:[

Thanks No Deeds

One is dead and the other is History.
No basis for an OUT vote.

Let reasoned and rational thinking prevail over slogans devoid of rational or reasoned content.

When what you really mean is let fear and the Devil you know lead you to vote for the status quo.... It's not reasoned argument it is total piffle designed to put doubts into the minds of those who would otherwise seek to change things up a bit and show that the UK can function very nicely thank you without being shackled to the sick cow standing on the edge of the precipice ...

Keep going Waz you are losing votes minute by minute... in a hole - stop digging mate!

elizabeth · Post by **elizabeth** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 9:06 am

Surely you have seen and or read the outpourings against Mr Farage for his racist and xenophobic attitude to immigration.

That statement is on a par with the comments made by Michael Heseltine, he said that people supporting the Leave campaign are aligned with Donald Trump, nothing could be further from the truth, because you support leaving Europe DOES NOT make you racist, xenophobic or just downright offensive.

None of us know what will happen if we vote to leave, but we do know what will happen if we stay in, and that fills me with dread.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 9:21 am

So, what is going to happen if we stay in then, you seem to have used the "Royal" WE in your last post, giving the impression that "Everybody" knows what will happen. That must be a beautiful position to be in - to know what will happen in the future with such certainty!

Please educate us all then and let us all know what it is the fills you with dread and what it is that will happen if we stay in?????????????????

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 9:31 am

elizabeth wrote:Surely you have seen and or read the outpourings against Mr Farage for his racist and xenophobic attitude to immigration.

That statement is on a par with the comments made by Michael Heseltine, he said that people supporting the Leave campaign are aligned with Donald Trump, nothing could be further from the truth, because you support leaving Europe DOES NOT make you racist, xenophobic or just downright offensive.

None of us know what will happen if we vote to leave, but we do know what will happen if we stay in, and that fills me with dread.

Well we do know a few things.... we will be back in control, we won't have to support the sick economies of Europe, we won't need to run every bit of legislation past the power brokers of the EU only to be told you can't do that....

We can also negotiate to trade with whomsoever we like on terms favourable to the UK economy without being told we must not upset the apple cart of other EU nations... who have on intention of playing by the rules or fairly...

Seemingly no one can restructure the EU... it's become a self-perpetuating leviathan - it started out as a good idea but then they allowed busybodies take it over in such a negative way that it now has no useful purpose that could outweigh its downsides of which there are many...Just possibly the Uk voting to leave would be the only wake-up call that could lead to change within - but somebody has to go first... The UK might just prompt this need for change to bear fruit.... Certainly other nations are queuing up to see where it will lead...

elizabeth · Post by **elizabeth** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 9:36 am

waddo wrote:So, what is going to happen if we stay in then, you seem to have used the "Royal" WE in your last post, giving the impression that "Everybody" knows what will happen. That must be a beautiful position to be in - to know what will happen in the future with such certainty!

Please educate us all then and let us all know what it is the fills you with dread and what it is that will happen if we stay in?????????????????

I don't think there is any need for sarcasm in this debate, I would hardly say I in this context.
What fills me with dread is the knowledge that our country will be governed by people who were not elected and have no concept of democracy, that uncontrolled immigration will bring it to it's knees, that our country will have to pay increased contributions to keep bankrupt member states afloat, that the rebates the country gets at present can be changed without consultation

These are just some of the things that concern ME and my family

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 9:40 am

elizabeth wrote:
waddo wrote:So, what is going to happen if we stay in then, you seem to have used the "Royal" WE in your last post, giving the impression that "Everybody" knows what will happen. That must be a beautiful position to be in - to know what will happen in the future with such certainty!

Please educate us all then and let us all know what it is the fills you with dread and what it is that will happen if we stay in?????????????????
I don't think there is any need for sarcasm in this debate, I would hardly say I in this context.
What fills me with dread is the knowledge that our country will be governed by people who were not elected and have no concept of democracy, that uncontrolled immigration will bring it to it's knees, that our country will have to pay increased contributions to keep bankrupt member states afloat, that the rebates the country gets at present can be changed without consultation

These are just some of the things that concern ME and my family

Waddo's comments might not have been aimed at your post....

elizabeth · Post by **elizabeth** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 9:57 am

Grouch, I think if you look again it was clearly in response to my post but that's ok, it won't alter my opinion in any way.

Hammerhead · Post by **Hammerhead** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 10:02 am

Be careful what you wish for haha

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 10:08 am

elizabeth wrote:Grouch, I think if you look again it was clearly in response to my post but that's ok, it won't alter my opinion in any way.

Well it wasn't clear not having quoted you... but in any case we do all know - it will be more of the same - creeping federalism which is to the detriment of all the member states apart from those delinquent states that don't pay and have no real intention of paying their way and seem incapable of meaningful fiscal reform. The EU waves a big stick and lends them more money... really you couldn't make it up... It's like parents of drug addict telling him off and them giving him more funds for his next fix... irresponsible....

Next to fall...

Italy
Spain
Greece
Portugal

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 1:43 pm

The whole of the "in" argument seems to be centred around this trade issue.
This is the UK...we can and will trade with the world just as we have for hundreds of years.

Other than the trade red herring why else would we stay ?

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 2:13 pm

Actually people - it was aimed at Elizabeths' post! There was no sarcasm intended either, it was a pure questioning response to a statement that "WE" - and by that you mean everyone - know what will happen if the UK stays in the EU.

In fact nobody knows what will happen in the future, many will make educated guesses based upon historical data, many will make guesses based upon the content of speech's, some will research the possibilities of leaving or staying and what that would bring and some will just tick a box in the hope that they have guessed correctly, but nobody actually knows.

Stay or go, it is a gamble either way and we all know that the British love to gamble - which other Nations TV shows are full of adverts to Bet365, National Lottery, Postal Code Lottery, on-line Bingo etc, etc - everyone will have their own reason for the way they vote on the day and there will be a winner - which will be instantly derided by the looser and a looser which will eventually suffer the same fate because they never tried hard enough. Every failure will be blamed on the winner and every win will soon be forgotten but still - nobody knows the future.

However I feel that your response of "These are just some of the things that concern ME and my family" put the whole issue in perspective and that it is the thoughts of what may happen to you and your family that concern you most. I hope for your sake, and everyone else who votes either OUT or IN, that they have done their own research and not relied upon the groundswell of emotion to force their X into any particular box.

Having just read a further post whilst trying to post this reply I feel the need to respond - "The whole of the OUT argument seems to be centered around the immigration issue" and I strongly believe that on that issue alone the majority of people will vote OUT, forgetting all the other issues of both IN and OUT as the vast majority of them (the issues) are not well enough publicized by either party.

I wish both the IN and the OUT party's the very best of luck because no matter who wins, they are going to need as much luck as they can get to sort out the mess that will follow. There is no Pot of Gold at the end of this particular rainbow!

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 4:14 pm

Both the "Vote Leave" and "Vote Remain" campaigns have been suspended today, following the murder of and in respect for Jo Cox, MP for Birstall, West Yorkshire....
...in case no-one had noticed.....

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 11:31 pm

turtle wrote:The whole of the "in" argument seems to be centred around this trade issue.
This is the UK...we can and will trade with the world just as we have for hundreds of years.

Other than the trade red herring why else would we stay ?

Turtle,
Not solely trade. The whole UK economy. That includes trade of course but just as important is inward investment that support jobs, prosperity and success of the UK.
I am afraid that the "take back control" slogans are just widely out of date. The World is ever smaller and a stand alone strategy is simply less secure, less efficient and less of a success.

We would stay because it is the best option to maintain a successful economy, to be more secure, to be better off and to create better prospects for our youngsters..... And, of course, to maintain the freedom of travel that all ex pats currently enjoy.
Use your vote sensibly. Vote success and prosperity. Vote IN.

Sincere condolences for the tragic loss of a dedicated and noble lady working tirelessly for the betterment of mankind. RIP

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 11:42 pm

Groucho wrote:
waz-24-7 wrote:[

Thanks No Deeds

One is dead and the other is History.
No basis for an OUT vote.

Let reasoned and rational thinking prevail over slogans devoid of rational or reasoned content.

When what you really mean is let fear and the Devil you know lead you to vote for the status quo.... It's not reasoned argument it is total piffle designed to put doubts into the minds of those who would otherwise seek to change things up a bit and show that the UK can function very nicely thank you without being shackled to the sick cow standing on the edge of the precipice ...

Keep going Waz you are losing votes minute by minute... in a hole - stop digging mate!

Groucho,
To be clear. I am not personally standing for election.. I am disappointed that you think my point of view is "piffle". My posts are factual and based on real events and facts that are becoming more apparent by the day. Your own posts appear to lack the substance that would make any undecided voters choose your course.
I have asked previously that you might offer alternatives to current leaders, policies and strategy to facilitate the prosperity that we should look forward to post BREXIT.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Fri 17 Jun 2016 11:54 pm

waddo wrote:Actually people - it was aimed at Elizabeths' post! There was no sarcasm intended either, it was a pure questioning response to a statement that "WE" - and by that you mean everyone - know what will happen if the UK stays in the EU.

In fact nobody knows what will happen in the future, many will make educated guesses based upon historical data, many will make guesses based upon the content of speech's, some will research the possibilities of leaving or staying and what that would bring and some will just tick a box in the hope that they have guessed correctly, but nobody actually knows.

Stay or go, it is a gamble either way and we all know that the British love to gamble - which other Nations TV shows are full of adverts to Bet365, National Lottery, Postal Code Lottery, on-line Bingo etc, etc - everyone will have their own reason for the way they vote on the day and there will be a winner - which will be instantly derided by the looser and a looser which will eventually suffer the same fate because they never tried hard enough. Every failure will be blamed on the winner and every win will soon be forgotten but still - nobody knows the future.

However I feel that your response of "These are just some of the things that concern ME and my family" put the whole issue in perspective and that it is the thoughts of what may happen to you and your family that concern you most. I hope for your sake, and everyone else who votes either OUT or IN, that they have done their own research and not relied upon the groundswell of emotion to force their X into any particular box.

Having just read a further post whilst trying to post this reply I feel the need to respond - "The whole of the OUT argument seems to be centered around the immigration issue" and I strongly believe that on that issue alone the majority of people will vote OUT, forgetting all the other issues of both IN and OUT as the vast majority of them (the issues) are not well enough publicized by either party.

I wish both the IN and the OUT party's the very best of luck because no matter who wins, they are going to need as much luck as they can get to sort out the mess that will follow. There is no Pot of Gold at the end of this particular rainbow!

Waddo,
On the contrary. To REMAIN IN is no gamble at all. REMAIN IN...The UK will continue to prosper and growth of the UK economy shows no legitimate reason to slow or decline. Certainly our government will have the task to seek the reform that the EU needs. This will not be a quick fix but certainly the EU in general are fully aware of the need to move forward and reform to deal with new challenges such as populous migration, terrorism, and globalisation.
These are definite challenges that the UK should be leading the way upon and sitting at the table is the right course. To flee, isolate and shrug responsibility is not a prudent course of action and not in the best interest of the country's future as a global player.

There will be no mess at the end of an IN vote. The mess will certainly be there upon a BREXIT.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 18 Jun 2016 12:09 am

elizabeth wrote:
waddo wrote:So, what is going to happen if we stay in then, you seem to have used the "Royal" WE in your last post, giving the impression that "Everybody" knows what will happen. That must be a beautiful position to be in - to know what will happen in the future with such certainty!

Please educate us all then and let us all know what it is the fills you with dread and what it is that will happen if we stay in?????????????????
I don't think there is any need for sarcasm in this debate, I would hardly say I in this context.
What fills me with dread is the knowledge that our country will be governed by people who were not elected and have no concept of democracy, that uncontrolled immigration will bring it to it's knees, that our country will have to pay increased contributions to keep bankrupt member states afloat, that the rebates the country gets at present can be changed without consultation

These are just some of the things that concern ME and my family

Elizabeth,
Rather a gloomy forecast. The UK Government is firmly based in Westminster and that will not change. Uncontrolled immigration is not the current or future situation. The UK has border control and immigration is controlled by same. How will immigration bring our country to its knees? Please explain this comment.
Subscriptions are not paid to keep bankrupt member states afloat. The UK secures massive benefits from the EU. Almost every town in the UK has benefited from EU funded improvement or incentive projects to create jobs and or to improve life standards in deprived regions.
The prospects for prosperity for your family based upon the economic case should far out way your fears that are, in my view, rather unfounded.
I almost guarantee that any of your family working in manufacturing or exportable services will be directly and adversely effected upon a BREXIT.

WotNoDeeds · Post by **WotNoDeeds** » Sat 18 Jun 2016 7:59 am

"Time for certain members of the government to start looking for a job, we can't have traitors running our country after the vote."

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