Break up of the United Kingdom

lee666 · Post by **lee666** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 3:45 pm

jofra

Only an example, you've had a crash in your car. 20 people witnessed the accident and 51.9% of the witnesses said it WAS'NT your fault, do you want the policeman to keep asking them to think again until 51.9% say it was your fault.

I don't think so, the MAJORITY voted leave.

lee666 · Post by **lee666** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 4:00 pm

jofra

Only an example, you've had a crash in your car. 20 people witnessed the accident and 51.9% of the witnesses said it WAS'NT your fault, do you want the policeman to keep asking them to think again until 51.9% say it was your fault.

I don't think so, the MAJORITY voted leave.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 4:24 pm

We must accept that the British people have voted to leave.

The statistics show that non working people made up the majority of the winning side.
This should be a concern because clearly working people have the most to lose from the result. Jobs and prosperity are, as predicted at risk. There will be job losses very quickly in my view.

The failure to listen to experts and leaders will now show its true grit as we all start to pay the inevitable and predicted cost.
I remain amazed that people voted with clear disregard to advice but upon their own self interest and fear of primarily immigration.

The sombre mood in the UK at the moment indeed reflects a level of disbelief, possibly regret as the economic story and hit becomes apparent.
The true cost in monetary terms is showing with immediate effect. The long term cost and damage is unfolding and will do for months and possibly years. And for what specifically....very little in my view.

Independence day. I think not. Yesterday was certainly Black Friday.
We must now just get on with it and deal with it best we can.

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 4:45 pm

Lee666 -
To reply to both your posts, and disregarding the rather impossible arithmetic, together with the extremely simplistic "example" (!),
I have not asked - or want - that the referendum be repeated ad infinitum; what I do ask is that now the matter is over, patronising and insulting comments not be directed at those whose views did not coincide with yours - or do you really want to cause even more conflict and animosity? We should now be trying to get together to make sure it works - not mess it up by continuing the squabbling....

lee666 · Post by **lee666** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 4:52 pm

jofra

Democracy won, get over it.

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 5:08 pm

Sombre mood in the UK? Not sure where you get that from. Most of my contacts in the UK have accepted the leave result, even those who voted to remain. They are now saying its agreat opportunity and lets move forward and negotiate a sensible exit strategy on the timescales that the United Kingdom deems necessary, despite the bleatings of a number of MEPs from other countries dictating we should move very quickly. They are running scared that other member states may follow.

Failure to listen to the experts - Lets face it both the remain and leave campaign pulled in so called experts. Most of it was scaremongering from both sides. At the end of the day the people of the UK voted to leave. Close as it was the public have spoken.

I take a lot of confort from countries such as Norway who have grown and prospered outside of the EU. No one said it would be easy, but we will be in more control of our own destiny and we will succeed or fail as a result. I am confident we will succeed, why, because when we face adversity in whatever context the people of the UK are very resolute. Its what makes the UK what it is.

waz-24-7 wrote:We must accept that the British people have voted to leave.

The statistics show that non working people made up the majority of the winning side.
This should be a concern because clearly working people have the most to lose from the result. Jobs and prosperity are, as predicted at risk. There will be job losses very quickly in my view.

The failure to listen to experts and leaders will now show its true grit as we all start to pay the inevitable and predicted cost.
I remain amazed that people voted with clear disregard to advice but upon their own self interest and fear of primarily immigration.

The sombre mood in the UK at the moment indeed reflects a level of disbelief, possibly regret as the economic story and hit becomes apparent.
The true cost in monetary terms is showing with immediate effect. The long term cost and damage is unfolding and will do for months and possibly years. And for what specifically....very little in my view.

Independence day. I think not. Yesterday was certainly Black Friday.
We must now just get on with it and deal with it best we can.

lee666 · Post by **lee666** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 5:29 pm

Thought this was quite interesting !!

Within just 24 hours of our historic decision to leave the European Union, Germany, the USA and Canada have all affirmed their desire to establish special trade deals with post-Brexit Britain.

US President Barack Obama re-emphasised the important role the UK-US relationship will continue to play, saying that "the special relationship between the United States and the United Kingdom is enduring, and the United Kingdom's membership in NATO remains a vital cornerstone of US foreign, security and economic policy".

New Zealand First leader Winston Peters also voiced his desire for New Zealand to "be the first country in the queue for a trade deal with a liberated United Kingdom".

Not a bad first day of freedom.

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/6 ... ide-the-EU

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 5:46 pm

Posh in Devon,
Sombre yes.
A fiend of mine who runs one of largest BMW dealers in UK reports,
Saturday is usually a good selling day with average 3-5 cars sold. Today only 5 visitors to the showroom and zero sales. Confidence has evaporated.
People have seen the instant fall in the value of their savings pensions and investments and can see the risk that BREXIT has already unleashed.

Great attitude just like pre referendum. Now the real truth unfolds. Experts on the BREXIT side. Very few indeed. The list on the REMAIN side in comparison was overwhelming. I can only assume you are one of the many that voted with eyes somewhat closed.

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 6:09 pm

waz-24-7 wrote:Posh in Devon,
Sombre yes.
A fiend of mine who runs one of largest BMW dealers in UK reports,
Saturday is usually a good selling day with average 3-5 cars sold. Today only 5 visitors to the showroom and zero sales. Confidence has evaporated.
People have seen the instant fall in the value of their savings pensions and investments and can see the risk that BREXIT has already unleashed.

Great attitude just like pre referendum. Now the real truth unfolds. Experts on the BREXIT side. Very few indeed. The list on the REMAIN side in comparison was overwhelming. I can only assume you are one of the many that voted with eyes somewhat closed.

Clearly we have different sources of information on the mood in the UK. Also as I have said both sides wheeled out so called experts. When one side pushed one forward the other found one to counter the argument. Majority if it was nothing short of scaremongering and served to confuse not inform. I preferred to listen to the likes of Norway who went thro the same .

At the end of the day the leave vote won and should be accepted.

In my opinion it is not all doom and gloom.... My glass is half full

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 6:16 pm

PoshinDevon wrote:.... My glass is half full

Cheers!

David · Post by **David** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 6:43 pm

No sombre mood here now the uk can move forward and prosper, lets accept the challenges ahead and look forward to a great future for the people of the uk.

PapaBravo · Post by **PapaBravo** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 7:04 pm

jofra said:

We should now be trying to get together to make sure it works - not mess it up by continuing the squabbling....

Spot on jofra.

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 7:08 pm

Lee666
As you apparently do not or cannot understand my posts, I will simplify - I do NOT argue with or oppose the result - YES, we won - SO - stop insulting those who lost!!!
...or I may start to think you are wrong.......
Simple enough?

lee666 · Post by **lee666** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 8:06 pm

jofra

So you say 'stop insulting those who lost' then in the next breath you tell me I am thick & simple.

Mmmmmmmmmm !!

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 8:32 pm

Please remain on topic but if necessary take your individual grievance with another member off line using either email or the pm facility.

scubadubaqueen · Post by **scubadubaqueen** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 8:51 pm

For information the signatures are going up by thousands every minute:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 8:51 pm

waz-24-7 wrote:Posh in Devon,
Sombre yes.
A fiend of mine who runs one of largest BMW dealers in UK reports,
Saturday is usually a good selling day with average 3-5 cars sold. Today only 5 visitors to the showroom and zero sales. Confidence has evaporated.
People have seen the instant fall in the value of their savings pensions and investments and can see the risk that BREXIT has already unleashed.

Great attitude just like pre referendum. Now the real truth unfolds. Experts on the BREXIT side. Very few indeed. The list on the REMAIN side in comparison was overwhelming. I can only assume you are one of the many that voted with eyes somewhat closed.

These are 2 of the so called "Experts" we are told to listen to........ I will give you one guess why these 2 want to remain ?

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 9:06 pm

Turtle,
I really do hope you have not participated in our economic decline as predicted by a list of experts and leaders based on the salary of 2 people.
You are certainly , like me, paying for it now and for the foreseeable near future according to the experts.

Please do not try and further substantiate the reasons for leaving. The task now is to recover from what the experts told you and you failed to listen!!

Of course it is still early days but so far the story board is exactly as predicted. I do hope that the experts and I are wrong but frankly. I think we are right.

elizabeth · Post by **elizabeth** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 9:11 pm

scubadubaqueen wrote:For information the signatures are going up by thousands every minute:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

Quite obviously people do not understand what democracy stands for, they can stamp their feet all they like but it won't alter anything. The Leave campaign won, get on with it.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 9:12 pm

scubadubaqueen wrote:For information the signatures are going up by thousands every minute:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

Wow!!
What a reaction. 2 plus million in such a short time.
I wonder how the debate will develop?
I wonder how many leavers would re assess now that the damage predictions from experts are coming home to roost and people are already feeling the financial loss.

I will not hold my breath but this reflects the sure fire feeling across the nation.
Thank for the post.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 9:19 pm

waz-24-7 wrote:Turtle,
I really do hope you have not participated in our economic decline as predicted by a list of experts and leaders based on the salary of 2 people.
You are certainly , like me, paying for it now and for the foreseeable near future according to the experts.

Please do not try and further substantiate the reasons for leaving. The task now is to recover from what the experts told you and you failed to listen!!

Of course it is still early days but so far the story board is exactly as predicted. I do hope that the experts and I are wrong but frankly. I think we are right.

waz - these same experts predicted a Remain win until the first votes came in ,you have had 40 years of IN but you wont give the UK OUT 40 hours before deciding its a disaster.

lee666 · Post by **lee666** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 9:28 pm

waz

Democracy reigned, anyone can start a Petition and encourage who they like to sign it.

I would imagine ALL the Scottish voters have got involved, all the youngsters who wanted us to remain and probably Cameron himself.

Brexit won, are we saying that the democratic procedure we use is flawed or incorrect, I don't think so.

I also noticed today that the youngsters are blaming the older generation for Brexit, I think this is a huge insult to those who fought 2 world wars to give those same youngsters the right to vote. So when anything goes wrong let's blame blame the Victoria Cross, George Medal etc etc winners because they don't know what they're doing.

There has been a result, a fair & legitimate result. Right or wrong we have to move forward on that result and make our country a leader again.

scubadubaqueen · Post by **scubadubaqueen** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 9:42 pm

If you click on "Show a Map" of the petition you will see where all the signatures are coming in from, and it looks like there are a lot of people who wished they had voted and others that have had second thoughts about the way they voted, perhaps in protest without understanding the consequences:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

And I would suspect that if there were a re-run that well over 75% would turn out, and that over 60% of those would vote to remain in, given the clear mis-selling that has come to light now, by a bunch of extreme right wing fascists who only had their personal interests at heart.

If you bought something from a shop and it was not as described you would have a right to take it back for a refund.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 9:47 pm

Kerry little substance in your valid point, experts did predicted a REMAIN, The result shocked many including myself. No brownie points to put in the bank or pay the bills unfortunately.

The aftermath is following the predicted path as described by the experts. You yourself will have already been hit by the collapse of sterling. Not sure what the lira is right now but sure it is strong against sterling. The same experts predicted the economic damage. I have posted in some detail my views and predictions. Others have posted the views and predictions of major experts. Whilst I do hope we are wrong the writing remains unaltered and on the wall.
Black Friday has now closed. The markets next week will be interesting and over the next months and two years the economic picture will become more clear. Do not expect a magic wand recovery. Do not expect any massive change in the UK immigrant landscape. Expect to suffer due to the failure to listen more carefully to your party leaders and socialist trade union leaders. For sure you have indicated your willingness to take the hit. I do hope you can stomach the next recession that has been predicted. The shame is, if it does happen, it is totally self inflicted. Negative growth for 3 months is the baseline. Figure are due out end of next month. By Christmas the UK economy will present a true picture of post BREXIT.

elizabeth · Post by **elizabeth** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 9:52 pm

scubadubaqueen wrote:If you click on "Show a Map" of the petition you will see where all the signatures are coming in from, and it looks like there are a lot of people who wished they had voted and others that have had second thoughts about the way they voted, perhaps in protest without understanding the consequences:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

And I would suspect that if there were a re-run that well over 75% would turn out, and that over 60% of those would vote to remain in, given the clear mis-selling that has come to light now, by a bunch of extreme right wing fascists who only had their personal interests at heart.

If you bought something from a shop and it was not as described you would have a right to take it back for a refund.

Extreme right wing fascists, what in Gods name are you talking about. People in all areas and in all income brackets voted to leave to regain our own country, that choice was given to us by the elected Government and the people have ospoken, end of story. Surely it is now time to stop the insults because nothing will happen,if you really believe that all those who voted to leave now regret that decision then I'm sorry but you're deluded, we are not a bunch of dimwits unable to form a clear opinion of our own.

lee666 · Post by **lee666** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 9:56 pm

The 23rd June was the Referendum day, not 22nd or 24th, the 23rd. This was announced so long ago I have forgotten but it was on all media's time & time again over the last few months.

There was time to vote and plenty of time to study what you wanted to vote for. So because of people's laziness and relying on others we should change things. If it was a general election would we be saying the same, I don't think so.

Every voter had exactly the same opportunity, don't blame others for their lack of interest or or lack of knowledge on the actual vote.

Everyone needs to take personal responsibility for their actions, democracy won I for won accept the outcome.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 10:12 pm

lee666 wrote:waz

Democracy reigned, anyone can start a Petition and encourage who they like to sign it.

I would imagine ALL the Scottish voters have got involved, all the youngsters who wanted us to remain and probably Cameron himself.

Brexit won, are we saying that the democratic procedure we use is flawed or incorrect, I don't think so.

I also noticed today that the youngsters are blaming the older generation for Brexit, I think this is a huge insult to those who fought 2 world wars to give those same youngsters the right to vote. So when anything goes wrong let's blame blame the Victoria Cross, George Medal etc etc winners because they don't know what they're doing.

There has been a result, a fair & legitimate result. Right or wrong we have to move forward on that result and make our country a leader again.

Lee
Our war veterans and soldiers are always to be respected without exception.
The case here is that youngsters who have a right to seek prosperity have been forced into a BREXIT by persons that are generally not working or are pensioners. I am afraid the "good old days of the British Empire " rhetoric has guided some to rather poor decisions and votes.
The future is with our young. I believe the damage inflicted on our youngsters through no fault of their own is not justified. Many older LEAVERS were of the opinion that they were OUT for the sake of their children. I said it before, this case is flawed. How wrong these people are. Opportunities have been stifled and the UK is now in real risk of recession and possible break up. A great legacy for our children to grasp. I fully understand and indeed support the view of youngsters who are more willing to tolerate and integrate than most older generation.

lee666 · Post by **lee666** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 10:15 pm

On a final note tonight.

Someone has just started a new Petition that if England are defeated by Iceland on Monday, do we demand a replay ??

Answers on a postcard please.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 10:24 pm

lee666 wrote:On a final note tonight.

Someone has just started a new Petition that if England are defeated by Iceland on Monday, do we demand a replay ??

Answers on a postcard please.

Thank you,
No harm in some light hearted banter.
Can Wales do the same please,

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 10:52 pm

Now there is a question....will England be missing from Euro 2020 ?

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 10:53 pm

turtle wrote:Now there is a question....will England be missing from Euro 2020 ?

No Sport will always find a way.

Who else would beat Germany and France?

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sat 25 Jun 2016 11:00 pm

Not England that's for sure

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Sun 26 Jun 2016 6:25 am

Never mind the football, we've been robbed at Eurovision for years.

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Sun 26 Jun 2016 6:28 am

“If we vote to Leave, the UK car industry will pack up and disappear!”, cried the Remain vote.

Two days on, and Aston Martin confirms it will be investing £200 million in a new Welsh plant.

Not all sombre, doom and gloom in the UK.

Of course the next few weeks and months will be interesting and at times no doubt a bit painful. However it was painful before the referendum. Petitions, postings on social media etc will not make any difference, the result was clear, a 52% of the United Kingdom voters decided they no longer wished to be part of the European Union. The result will not change.

Instead of following, the United Kingdom has shown a lead which I suspect others may well want to follow.

topten · Post by **topten** » Sun 26 Jun 2016 8:47 am

waz-24-7 wrote:
turtle wrote:I expected an early hysterical comment from you Waz ?...... That's why you lost the vote in the first place.
Turtle as you well know I predicted the rapid and deep decline of sterling and markets. This has clearly occurred to within a point of my assertion.
Whilst I fully accept the BREXIT outcome. The damage to each and every UK citizen is clear and the breakup of the UK is also a very strong possibility.
Rest assured I will implement my own strategy of recovery after BREXIT. I fear many will not have a plan. Most will now tighten their belts and recoil from the developing aftermath.

I will not preach the "I told you so" I now want to secure the best for our country given we are no longer in the Union.
I think it important now that the UK remains as a United Kingdom and meets the challenges that lay before us. That was my question.
The task is hard and there will be many failures but I trust the resourcefulness of our country to carry through.
It is critical that our government secures new leadership very soon and gets around the table to secure a quick and the least damaging departure.
Our provinces must act together and unite to keep the United Kingdom together. Further break up will without doubt cause further suffering.

I am saddened to predict a bumpy and unsettled period for us all, me included, I shall be travelling myself to Europe very shortly to negotiate , assure and sell my confidence in the United Kingdom as a business within the Automotive sector. I am confident of success and I hope to report progress towards reciprocal trade in vehicles , components, and ancillaries. I do this , of course for myself and my family, but just as importantly for the hundreds of thousands of UK automotive sector dependants.

The markets closed on Friday and the pound finished at its highest for that week.

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Sun 26 Jun 2016 9:08 am

topten wrote: The markets closed on Friday and the pound finished at its highest for that week.

I beg to differ.

TUES 1 GBP would buy 4.29 TL
FRI (close) 1 GBP would only buy 4.0085 TL

THURS 1 GBP would buy 1.50 USD
FRI (close) 1GBP would only buy 1.37 USD

source: Yahoo Finance

Perhaps you were looking at a different market - in which case, please specify.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 26 Jun 2016 10:25 am

Markets and currencies are rather complex.
It is the first response to any change in circumstances that is most indicative.
There is always a counter rally to a decline because of the carpet bagger trader strategists.

It will take until Christmas to get a clear picture. Certainly the fragile recovery secured by the UK economy after 2008 is now under serious threat.
This was so clearly predicted and I an very dismayed that most non working people in particular have blatantly ignored the massive dossier of advice and recommendation.
It is now the very break up of the UK that is creating the Sombre mood here in the UK.
For what, I ask?
Young people are rightly angered with BREXIT and it is this sector of our population that are clearly most fearful of the future.
I again say and make clear that:
I do hope that I am wrong and the UK with hold together and prosper. I will have delight in eating humble pie , However I investigated and researched the referendum in detail and my view was that to leave would create loss and decline. The expert advice was the same. BREXIT camp you must make it good or go.

Hedge-fund · Post by **Hedge-fund** » Sun 26 Jun 2016 11:23 am

waz-24-7 wrote:Markets and currencies are rather complex.
It is the first response to any change in circumstances that is most indicative.
There is always a counter rally to a decline because of the carpet bagger trader strategists.

It will take until Christmas to get a clear picture. Certainly the fragile recovery secured by the UK economy after 2008 is now under serious threat.
This was so clearly predicted and I an very dismayed that most non working people in particular have blatantly ignored the massive dossier of advice and recommendation.
It is now the very break up of the UK that is creating the Sombre mood here in the UK.
For what, I ask?
Young people are rightly angered with BREXIT and it is this sector of our population that are clearly most fearful of the future.
I again say and make clear that:
I do hope that I am wrong and the UK with hold together and prosper. I will have delight in eating humble pie , However I investigated and researched the referendum in detail and my view was that to leave would create loss and decline. The expert advice was the same. BREXIT camp you must make it good or go.

Start baking the humble pie now.

We only survived the sub-prime packaged debt crisis because we were outside the euro. The experts you love to quote told us we had to join the euro in the 90s or face oblivion. When we were forced out of the erm the experts told us we faced oblivion - it was the best thing that happened to our economy in a generation.

We are a trading nation and our hands have been tied by a protectionist agenda in the eu. We now have a new market of 2.2 billion people to access from which the eu blocked us. The eu itself will be desperate to keep our trade.

The experts said remain would win - rubbish, the people won despite the wild predictions from politicians and bankers who know better.

The first response of the markets to a shock is always overdone and is a good time to trade. The initial dump was much to do with the overdone buying following the polls last week showing Remain pulling ahead.

Life will go on a we will be a better country in the years to come.

If you keep listening to the experts before trading you will simply be giving money away. If these experts could trade they would not be analysts.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 26 Jun 2016 11:28 am

I will certainly buy the ingredients in the hope you are right.
Too early to start baking.
Signs are not good.
But I will certainly bake and eat the pie without any difficulty at all.

Geoff1131 · Post by **Geoff1131** » Tue 28 Jun 2016 3:03 pm

Well well well. Figures just released show that if Scotland had been successful with the independence vote earlier in the year. They would now be the country with the biggest debt in the EU. That's right folks, bigger than Spain's GDP deficit, bigger than Portugal's deficit, bigger than Italy's deficit, bigger than Cyprus's deficit and YES even bigger that the Greek deficit. So if they want to vote to leave the UK then good luck too them is what I say.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Tue 28 Jun 2016 3:33 pm

Geoff1131 wrote:Well well well. Figures just released show that if Scotland had been successful with the independence vote earlier in the year. They would now be the country with the biggest debt in the EU. That's right folks, bigger than Spain's GDP deficit, bigger than Portugal's deficit, bigger than Italy's deficit, bigger than Cyprus's deficit and YES even bigger that the Greek deficit. So if they want to vote to leave the UK then good luck too them is what I say.

Geoff
Yes probably correct,
Scotland has lost a great deal financially since the oil price crash.
from $1.40 to sub $50 has made Scotland significantly poorer.
The Shame is that the mere threat of their departure from the United Kingdom will effect confidence and in turn the Markets and in tern the UK economy.

Good luck to us all is what is needed.

scubadubaqueen · Post by **scubadubaqueen** » Tue 28 Jun 2016 7:54 pm

elizabeth wrote:
scubadubaqueen wrote:If you click on "Show a Map" of the petition you will see where all the signatures are coming in from, and it looks like there are a lot of people who wished they had voted and others that have had second thoughts about the way they voted, perhaps in protest without understanding the consequences:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

And I would suspect that if there were a re-run that well over 75% would turn out, and that over 60% of those would vote to remain in, given the clear mis-selling that has come to light now, by a bunch of extreme right wing fascists who only had their personal interests at heart.

If you bought something from a shop and it was not as described you would have a right to take it back for a refund.

Extreme right wing fascists, what in Gods name are you talking about. People in all areas and in all income brackets voted to leave to regain our own country, that choice was given to us by the elected Government and the people have ospoken, end of story. Surely it is now time to stop the insults because nothing will happen,if you really believe that all those who voted to leave now regret that decision then I'm sorry but you're deluded, we are not a bunch of dimwits unable to form a clear opinion of our own.

Elizabeth

If you do not know what Fascism represents, then perhaps the below image will act as a reminder. I am sorry if you found my post re "Ashamed to be British" given the rise of Xenophobia now in Britain offensive. That post now under moderation, was among other things, addressed to people whose motivations for voting Brexit, might not have been rational and raised a number very valid issues for discussion. I thank you for your private PM, and am sorry to learn that some of your family died in concentration camps during the Second World War. Two wrongs do not make a right, and without the UK in the EU as a very strong balancing power within, you are probably right in your thinking that "the return of German dominance over Europe and that is just one of the reasons why I voted to leave", will become more of a reality, only Britain will no longer have a major say and be left out on a limb, quite possibly as a broken up United Kingdom.

Our land border with the rest of Europe is currently in France. If we come out of the EU then yes this tide of people depicted in the poster of Nigel Farage, could well end up on our shores unabated, and I am sure the rest of the EU can not wait to move them on. And as far as free trade is concerned, this will not happen unless there is free movement of European citizens.

German Fascism. Once in power Adolf Hitler turned Germany into a fascist state. Fascist was originally used to describe the government of Benito Mussolini in Italy. Mussolini's fascist one-party state emphasized patriotism, national unity, hatred of communism, admiration of military values and unquestioning obedience.

elizabeth · Post by **elizabeth** » Tue 28 Jun 2016 8:05 pm

I find your attitude to Leave supporters offensive, insulting and totally disrespectful, how dare you compare us to the Nazi regime, how dare you.
If people of your calibre are to post your hatred on this forum then I want nothing more to do with it. You can wallow in your self pity all you like but democracy will always win, I have nothing further to say to a person such as yourself.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Tue 28 Jun 2016 8:27 pm

elizabeth wrote:I find your attitude to Leave supporters offensive, insulting and totally disrespectful, how dare you compare us to the Nazi regime, how dare you.
If people of your calibre are to post your hatred on this forum then I want nothing more to do with it. You can wallow in your self pity all you like but democracy will always win, I have nothing further to say to a person such as yourself.

Elizabeth,
I think you are rather too quick to take offense and take things personally.
There have been numerous posting from Mr no deeds portraying extreme views.
The BREXIT campaign was close to the mark as you well know ref: the FARAGE poster
Debate can wind many people up.
Good debate is constructive, objective and enlightening.

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Tue 28 Jun 2016 8:46 pm

Please can everyone stop trading personal insults.

References or accusations of extreme right wing facism, the Nazi Party etc does not add the debate and does not represent the views of the majority of those who voted to leave nor was it the central theme of the leave campaign. By the same token the views of those who voted to remain must also be respected.

Internet trolling in order to gain a reaction is not acceptable either.

Appreciate people are passionate but if sensible debate does not happen then this and other similar topics may well be locked and unfortunately the moderators may have to ban some members either for a short while or permanently.

Thanks

Maisiemoo · Post by **Maisiemoo** » Tue 28 Jun 2016 9:11 pm

Young people are rightly angered with BREXIT and it is this sector of our population that are clearly most fearful of the future.

I have been reading the comments section of the Guardian and it would appear that only 36% of 18 to 24 year olds actually bothered to get out of bed and vote, 75% of that number voted Remain. If their futures in the EU mattered so much to the young they should have ensured that they voted and then we would have a very different result today.

Geoff1131 · Post by **Geoff1131** » Tue 28 Jun 2016 9:23 pm

Maisiemoo, but they didn't and we don't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maisiemoo · Post by **Maisiemoo** » Tue 28 Jun 2016 9:56 pm

I should have made the point that they shouldn't whine if they didn't get the result they wanted and take it out on us oldies who have ruined their lives!

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Tue 28 Jun 2016 10:26 pm

Maisiemoo wrote:I should have made the point that they shouldn't whine if they didn't get the result they wanted and take it out on us oldies who have ruined their lives!

And why not?
Demoraphic of the UK population is an ageing majority
55 plus group is that largest section by some margin.

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Tue 28 Jun 2016 10:40 pm

Not directed at anybody - isn't it a commonly accepted "fact"/assumption that young people always rely on others to actually do something (vote?) for them/on their behalf?
After all, don't your kids only tidy up after you nag them, because they expect you to do it for them?
It's only us old codgers that realise that if a thing needs doing, we've got to do it ourselves..... but if that isn't what the young 'uns wanted, "they should have done it themselves..." !!

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