Does the UK need OR want access to the EU single market

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 02 Jul 2016 6:55 pm

Given the success of the BREXIT campaign.
Commentators from most political parties now focus on the UK's access to the EU single market .
Will the EU play ball>
Will the NEW PM negotiate a deal?
Will article 50 of Lisbon treaty ever be submitted?

What is the future of the UK post BREXIT?

David · Post by **David** » Sat 02 Jul 2016 7:24 pm

Oh no Waz stop stirring things up, do you not think its all been covered by now ?

woodspeckie · Post by **woodspeckie** » Sat 02 Jul 2016 8:51 pm

Waz your like a long playing record one day soon the needle is going to get blunt.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sat 02 Jul 2016 8:56 pm

waz-24-7 wrote:Given the success of the BREXIT campaign.
Commentators from most political parties now focus on the UK's access to the EU single market .
Will the EU play ball>
Will the NEW PM negotiate a deal?
Will article 50 of Lisbon treaty ever be submitted?

What is the future of the UK post BREXIT?

What is the future of the UK post BREXIT?[/quote]

Will they play ball.....if they want to trade with the UK then they will have to.....lets not forget the UK is a huge market place for the EU
The new PM will negotiate a deal but depends on who is PM what quality of deal we get....my opinion is we have a very strong hand and should negotiate hard.
Article 50 has to be implimented or there will be anarchy among 17m people ?

The future...well i believe the future is a little uncertain at the moment but the resillient Brits will win the day.

Now stop worrying and get on with your life.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 02 Jul 2016 9:24 pm

turtle wrote:
waz-24-7 wrote:Given the success of the BREXIT campaign.
Commentators from most political parties now focus on the UK's access to the EU single market .
Will the EU play ball>
Will the NEW PM negotiate a deal?
Will article 50 of Lisbon treaty ever be submitted?

What is the future of the UK post BREXIT?
What is the future of the UK post BREXIT?

Will they play ball.....if they want to trade with the UK then they will have to.....lets not forget the UK is a huge market place for the EU
The new PM will negotiate a deal but depends on who is PM what quality of deal we get....my opinion is we have a very strong hand and should negotiate hard.
Article 50 has to be implimented or there will be anarchy among 17m people ?

The future...well i believe the future is a little uncertain at the moment but the resillient Brits will win the day.

Now stop worrying and get on with your life. [/quote]
Turtle,
Yes I too think they will play ball. For UK to be in the single market is a win win situation
If we are excluded or forced to except only a degree of access then the UK may well reciprocate and play hard ball upon imports from the EU.
The leaders of the EU have a situation however. If they play too soft with the UK then other members will also contemplate an exit and the EU could fold.
They have said that article 50 must be submitted before negotiations start and also that free market access is based on free movement of labour. This is a sticking point I think.
I find it strange and peculiar that article 50 may not be submitted for up to two years, I think there will be a level of behind closed doors discussions before any submission is made.
I am afraid that the vast majority of people will not have any interest or knowledge of what the Lisbon treaty is let alone the significance of article 50.
Anarchy...I doubt.

Future...agreed uncertain. BREXIT has happened and it is now time to deal with it best we can. I am afraid many still see it simply as a victory over REMAIN. The 16 million who want to remain part of the single market cannot simply be ignored. It is these people that are more likely to make a song and dance as has been seen today in London.

Life certainly does go on and so does debate.
I sense a level of unwillingness from many to discuss or debate. These are the "BREXIT won the day" camp who consider that everything else afterwards is just not relevant. These are the couch potato types who will not assist the UK to recover.

lee666 · Post by **lee666** » Sat 02 Jul 2016 10:14 pm

If they don't play ball then Germany will be laying off over 250,000 car workers.

Taking bets now on the title of the next Subject started by Waz, any takers ??

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 02 Jul 2016 10:20 pm

lee666 wrote:If they don't play ball then Germany will be laying off over 250,000 car workers.

Taking bets now on the title of the next Subject started by Waz, any takers ??

Certainly a deal to be done then. The EU will want a deal but access to the single market has been made very clear.
Free movement of labour.

The loss of 250,000 car workers in Germany will not help the UK. This type of rhetoric is not concussive to working with our European neighbours.

Please cut out the unnecessary. Would you like to edit your post please

woodspeckie · Post by **woodspeckie** » Sat 02 Jul 2016 10:26 pm

The number of 16-17 year olds who took part in the London rally today?

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 02 Jul 2016 10:34 pm

woodspeckie wrote:The number of 16-17 year olds who took part in the London rally today?

Sorry cannot answer that but looking at social media and picture it looks like predominantly people under 30 yrs.
First reports are sayin 30,000 marchers.
Certainly some ground noise of opinion.

Of course the 17 million BREXIT voters have a voice too but we do not see the same or indeed any level of ongoing declarations of the so called independence day.
I wonder if a victory march will take place.

lee666 · Post by **lee666** » Sat 02 Jul 2016 11:43 pm

LONDON (Reuters) - Around 20 startup banks and financial firms have reaffirmed plans to invest a total of up to 500 million pounds to open in Britain, consulting firm PwC said on Friday.
These investment plans will be a boost for Britain's financial services sector, beset by rumours of job cuts and firms moving overseas in the aftermath of Britain's vote to leave the European Union and potentially surrender some of its access to EU markets.
The banks are a mixture of UK, European, and non-EU businesses and have already committed 200 million pounds, PwC said, with total funding of up to half a billion pounds featured in their business plans.
Stephen Morse, financial services partner at PwC, said the around 20 clients investing in Britain were not only mainstream banks, mortgage lenders and asset managers.
"There are a range of new technology-enabled banks, fintech businesses, commercial banks and even niche investment banks who have identified gaps in the market in part caused by big global banks having pulled out of some businesses over the past few years," he said.
Since the Brexit vote last week, banks, including Goldman Sachs (N:GS) and Morgan Stanley (N:MS), have denied rumours they are already moving thousands of jobs out of Britain as a result of the referendum.

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 8:04 am

FTSE 100 leaps to HIGHEST level since 2011 just a week after EU referendum

Barney · Post by **Barney** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 9:32 am

Figures vary but EU is more important to UK as a market than UK is to EU. About half our exports/services go to EU but only 16% of EU exports come to UK. http://www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/after-brexi ... 3jH-YumoUU

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 9:41 am

Barney wrote:Figures vary but EU is more important to UK as a market than UK is to EU. About half our exports/services go to EU but only 16% of EU exports come to UK. http://www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/after-brexi ... 3jH-YumoUU

Yes but !6% of the total exports of the EU into the UK is a massive amount given that there are 27 other member states - it means we import a lion's share of EU products so no doubt they will want to continue with that sort of level...

Leaving 84% divided between the other 27 EU states equals an average of just over 3% each.... Our buying power is equal to six EU states by my reckoning...

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 9:43 am

Barney, I appreciate what you say in your post however lets talk ££'s
Percentages are all very well and good but you can't bank percentages only ££'s

What is the monetary difference ?

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 10:16 am

lee666 wrote:LONDON (Reuters) - Around 20 startup banks and financial firms have reaffirmed plans to invest a total of up to 500 million pounds to open in Britain, consulting firm PwC said on Friday.
These investment plans will be a boost for Britain's financial services sector, beset by rumours of job cuts and firms moving overseas in the aftermath of Britain's vote to leave the European Union and potentially surrender some of its access to EU markets.
The banks are a mixture of UK, European, and non-EU businesses and have already committed 200 million pounds, PwC said, with total funding of up to half a billion pounds featured in their business plans.
Stephen Morse, financial services partner at PwC, said the around 20 clients investing in Britain were not only mainstream banks, mortgage lenders and asset managers.
"There are a range of new technology-enabled banks, fintech businesses, commercial banks and even niche investment banks who have identified gaps in the market in part caused by big global banks having pulled out of some businesses over the past few years," he said.
Since the Brexit vote last week, banks, including Goldman Sachs (N:GS) and Morgan Stanley (N:MS), have denied rumours they are already moving thousands of jobs out of Britain as a result of the referendum.

Lee
The reason,
From the same article
"Part of the reason for the recovery is the growing belief that article 50, the mechanism to trigger the UK leaving the EU, will not be triggered for months,"

The word is that article 50 might or might not be submitted. Could be 2 years!!
I hope it is not submitted because then we are indeed still in Europe.

I have said that there will doubtless be back room discussions and negotiations whilst sending a public signal that OUT is OUT.

How hard will BREXIT camp no push for article 50 submission?
Who will be satisfied with partial BREXIT?

MR Gove is the new and ONLY real remaining campaigner. He will not be the new PM in my opinion.
Interesting developments that could just get us out of the mess.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 10:23 am

Barney wrote:Figures vary but EU is more important to UK as a market than UK is to EU. About half our exports/services go to EU but only 16% of EU exports come to UK. http://www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/after-brexi ... 3jH-YumoUU

Yes
All inter European trade is important to all members.
Trade is critical to any economy. The UK has only just recovered from the recession of 2008.

It is critical in my view to maintain trade with the EU. The cost of this is now open for debate and negotiation.
The costs are free movement of labour and club subscriptions.

Are we willing to pay OR suffer the loss?

lee666 · Post by **lee666** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 10:28 am

Waz got to give you your due, you've got more staying power than Jeremy Corbyn.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 10:43 am

lee666 wrote:Waz got to give you your due, you've got more staying power than Jeremy Corbyn.

Thank you.
I am rather more upbeat about the Markets but it is, as in the article you quote, due to the signals upon submission or article 50 being delayed.

Will BREXIT camp push for submission OR will they accept a partial victory?

I would expect a market response upon submission. Downwards for reasons I do not need to itemise again.
It is good that investors are following developments with their money and there is hope that we can pull it off.

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 11:28 am

Of course article 50 will be submitted. The country was given an opportunity to vote on remaining or leaving the EU. The majority voted to leave. If the will of the people was not followed thro, I believe that would be a real disaster and cause far bigger problems for the UK long term.

Mr Gove will not become the next tory leader or primeminister, whilst I believe he is an astute, bright politician his antics post the referendum result plus his general dislike from fellow MP's and at a grass roots level will rule him out. He is also not popular amongst the voting population and whilst his tone and manner of speaking should not preclude him I dont think it helps. I believe he is best suited to a ministerial post concentrating on an are where he can drive thro change despite the many obstacles and flak that would undoubtably come his way.

Theresa May is probably the safest bet amongst the majority of tory MP's, hard working and gets on with the job. She will not have support from those MP's who voted to leave the EU but could be the candidate best placed to bring the tory party back together......however if she goes for a watered down exit from the EU she may not last long as leader. Her own MP's who voted leave will be against her and I suspect many of those in the constituencies will as well - could well cause longer term problems for the party. She is favourite to win tho.

Andrea Leadsom - No watered down EU exit and has stated that it would seem strange to elect a party leader who then had voted to remain in the EU. She has stated her case well, has not stabbed anyone in the back and has remain dignified since the result was announced. I think she is the dark horse and could well gain more and more support over the next few weeks both within the party and also at grass roots level.

Whoever gets the job will need to select carefully their front bench team thats for sure.

As for labour....who knows!

Should be between May and Leadsom in my opinion

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 11:46 am

Posh
I support your view.
There will, in my view, be some discussion upon submission of article 50.
I now think it will be held back for some time to come.
The exact terms of an EXIT are very unclear because it has never happened before.
I think and indeed hope that a partial exit will emerge from the ashes.
Ms May will seek this I think and will aim to keep all on side in the deal.

The crux will be the single market and the associated free movement of labour.
A very difficult but critical negotiation

lee666 · Post by **lee666** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 12:34 pm

Waz, I think the saying goes 'slowly, slowly catchy monkey', it's been just over one week since the vote.

Cameron has already said that Article 50 is unlikely to be triggered until the new PM is in office, that gives EVERYONE time to think.

Even you have to agree that they need to stop all the squabhling between the powers to be who allegedly are there to lead us forward. I can't help but think all the Conservative Remain MP's who have been given a bloody nose will do what they can to upset the apple cart.

I agree with PoshinDevon that it is likely to between May or Leadsom. Personally I would like the latter, first she was from the Leave team and secondly I think she would bring a younger fresh outlook. May has already dismantled our public services to the level of a great strain on our NHS, Police, Border Control and she is about to start on Ambulance & Fire Brigade. She is at this moment in time trying to introduce G4S into the police forces, why because her old man is a huge shareholder but there's no conflict of interest she says. Yeah OK Teresa !!

A lot of work WILL be done before Article 50 is triggered then we have up to two years. Under the Article we then have two years to exit. We can handle those leaders who are already trying to rush things, they are just concerned the domino effect will bring down the whole of the EU.

This is just my opinion of course, my back is to the wall and tin helmet donned !!

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 12:55 pm

lee666 wrote:Waz, I think the saying goes 'slowly, slowly catchy monkey', it's been just over one week since the vote.

Cameron has already said that Article 50 is unlikely to be triggered until the new PM is in office, that gives EVERYONE time to think.

Even you have to agree that they need to stop all the squabhling between the powers to be who allegedly are there to lead us forward. I can't help but think all the Conservative Remain MP's who have been given a bloody nose will do what they can to upset the apple cart.

I agree with PoshinDevon that it is likely to between May or Leadsom. Personally I would like the latter, first she was from the Leave team and secondly I think she would bring a younger fresh outlook. May has already dismantled our public services to the level of a great strain on our NHS, Police, Border Control and she is about to start on Ambulance & Fire Brigade. She is at this moment in time trying to introduce G4S into the police forces, why because her old man is a huge shareholder but there's no conflict of interest she says. Yeah OK Teresa !!

A lot of work WILL be done before Article 50 is triggered then we have up to two years. Under the Article we then have two years to exit. We can handle those leaders who are already trying to rush things, they are just concerned the domino effect will bring down the whole of the EU.

This is just my opinion of course, my back is to the wall and tin helmet donned !!

Yes Lee
By enlarge I do agree.
My own vote is for Ms May. Obviously, she is REMAIN so I support her from the outset.
Certainly, there should be no rush to submit article 50. This gives time to consider options and of course the talk and negotiate. Even if the EU say they will not. As everyone says they need us too.

Now in answer to the opening topic.

YES The UK needs access to the single market
YES The UK wants access to the single market.
The difficulty is of course at what cost and who will pay?

cambridge · Post by **cambridge** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 1:23 pm

Having again sat through the endless speculation on TVs today. As a Brexiteer I am worried that instead of starting in with a strong hand we will be led by the political elite who apparently are remainders at heart. This could mean for a better way of putting it a Soft negotiating position.

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 3:09 pm

But there's nothing to negotiate - we're leaving.
All matters regarding controls, legislation, trade, economy etc (and changes thereto) that relate solely to the UK and its inhabitants will revert to and be decided solely by the elected government of the UK - that's what we've decided!
Any form of contact - business, social, whatever - between the UK and the rest of the world will be solely under terms acceptable to us - whether we choose to vary what is "acceptable" is also up to us - and whether we choose to accept terms that are suitable to and required by the rest of the world? That is also up to us - so there we are - nothing to negotiate....
Welcome to the real world.....

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 3:27 pm

Waz
You have stated on numerous occasions that you think there will not be a quick action on Article 50 ?

Do you know this for certain of are you just hoping again...so which is it ...you either know or you haven't got a clue ?

If the establishment delay this decision to please people with your views then I'm afraid further turmoil in your beloved markets will soon follow as Brexit voters will become restless......and you know it.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 3:41 pm

turtle wrote:Waz
You have stated on numerous occasions that you think there will not be a quick action on Article 50 ?

Do you know this for certain of are you just hoping again...so which is it ...you either know or you haven't got a clue ?

If the establishment delay this decision to please people with your views then I'm afraid further turmoil in your beloved markets will soon follow as Brexit voters will become restless......and you know it.

Turtle,
I judge my comments on what is happening on the ground.
Of course I cannot be certain when article 50 will or will not be submitted. Mr Cameron has told us that the new PM will start the process.
The Lisbon treaty states that members have up to 2 years to start the process.

Turtle they are not my beloved markets. These institutions determine in part the prosperity and wealth within our economy.
The markets have responded well (guardian article) to the possibility of a cooling off period possibly the two years.
My view is that talks and negotiations will take place behind closed doors prior to article 50 in order for the EU and indeed the UK government to save face and seek compromise.
You are right BREXIT voters may become restless but my opinion is that the promises made by the BREXIT camp are rapidly becoming dust in the wind.
Now that will certainly not go down well on here but that is my opinion.
Time will tell.
Everyone should find the common ground now. BREXIT and REMAIN camps were very well supported and the vote was close. ALL the voices of the UK must be listened to and compromise is the order of the day to secure the best possible future.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 4:07 pm

Waz
I simply can not accept your analysis about "behind closed doors" are you suggesting that Mr Cameron who spent weeks trying to negotiate a better deal for the UK and came away with a bag of magic beans will be discussed again behind closed doors ?

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 4:16 pm

turtle wrote:Waz
I simply can not accept your analysis about "behind closed doors" are you suggesting that Mr Cameron who spent weeks trying to negotiate a better deal for the UK and came away with a bag of magic beans will be discussed again behind closed doors ?

Behind closed doors is exactly that.
Bothe the UK and the EU have too much to lose without talks and negotiation.
That is very clear.
Both sides need to save face .

IT will be someone or more likely more than one in our government that I believe will be talking and negotiating.
Ms Sturgeon has already put an oar in the water when she visited last week. Too soon and to public I think.
Remember at this moment we are still in the EU.

This is my opinion ONLY.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 4:33 pm

So the EU lose all credibility when negotiating as they took Mr Cameron for the fool he was.

No deal for Cameron but a deal behind closed doors.....the EU is rotten to the core and we are best rid of it.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 6:12 pm

turtle wrote:So the EU lose all credibility when negotiating as they took Mr Cameron for the fool he was.

No deal for Cameron but a deal behind closed doors.....the EU is rotten to the core and we are best rid of it.

Yes turtle possibly but we need access to the single market as the EU need access to the UK market.
It can only work both ways. The table is somewhat turned over since last negotiations last October.
The EU will demand free movement of labour. Now can this be accepted or are there possibly other options. The EU cannot be seen to lose face in front of all its member states. A better deal for UK outside the EU will be embarrassing for them to explain to members.
Whatever you think of Mr Cameron he is not going to be involved directly, as I understand it, in negotiations. He has clearly told us that it will be the new PM.
Difficult and challenging job one for the PM certainly.

Whatever you think of the EU. Europe is our closest neighbour and ally.
Please let us not go back to the BREXIT debate. Both sides made their case and BREXIT won more votes.

I see compromise and solution. The UK desperately needs to secure a deal. I think the status quo has installed a small level of confidence in the markets. They have reacted as they perceive a lower level of risk as opposed to last week when BREXIT first hit us.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 6:30 pm

All very well and good Waz but the UK is like a honey pot to migrant workers and that is a non starter.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 6:40 pm

turtle wrote:All very well and good Waz but the UK is like a honey pot to migrant workers and that is a non starter.

It will be no easy task to secure a deal that is a certainty.
I believe Norway have some sort of a labour market deal in place.
I do not Know any details of it but a suspect people are looking at it

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 03 Jul 2016 7:06 pm

If any deal is done about free movement of people then the EU will have a major problem on its hands so for me it will not happen.

elizabeth · Post by **elizabeth** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 8:44 am

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rexit.html

scubadubaqueen · Post by **scubadubaqueen** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 11:55 am

elizabeth wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rexit.html

Wearing rose tinted glasses, read the whole article. They are queuing up to sell stuff to the UK, like flooding the place with cheap Chinese imports of lessor quality, manufactured by people on minuscule wages. Exactly what will Britain be exporting to them, aside from the odd high end commodity made in Britain that will not be so Great anymore? A country that was the balancing power within the EU and from now will have NO Say in how things get run within that club.

Put simplistically, whenever I have items mailed to the RoC from any EU member country I have no problems importing what the hell I like and pay no VAT or Duty and no questions are asked, no matter the value. However, if any parcel arrives with a value stated as over Euros 17 or thereabouts from outside the EU, then I have to go to the Customs House and pay VAT, and if over Euros 150 value then an additional Customs Duty, making imports from China rather costly, not to mention that the postage too can either be very slow (taking months on occasions from China) or way more costly if you want it in a hurry! Stuff arriving to the North.... well there is no method to the madness. I have stood for an hour to hand over 5 lira on occasions, and on other occasions paid nothing on things of far greater value. And he who has not crossed over Metahan at some point with something more than they should have without declaring same, then let them cast the first stone!

Not having access to the EU Single Market will hit people more than they realise, but with access comes free movement of people, which kind of negates what so many Brexiteers voted for. I think most so riled up about this immigration business, that they could not see the wood from the trees.

Illegal immigration from outside the EU being the real problem, and most of those are still confined to mainland Europe held back in Calais for now (the UK is not part of Shengen, so we have maintained our borders unlike others in the EU). The problem is not the immigrants from the EU, many of whom are on minimum UK wages doing jobs indigenous Brits would not want to do anyway, rather claim benefits instead! Remember the flood of West Indians in the 50s and 60s who drove the buses, and have supported the NHS, the flood of Asians from Uganda in the 70s many of whom took to running the corner shops and who introduced curry on mass to the UK? Asians mostly very hard working people. Perhaps those in the UK who claims to be British and want to get rid of all immigrants, should have a DNA test before they cast stones. The Brexit campaign was based mainly on immigration issues, so let's make no bones about that. It was shameful, but the repercussions of this, will affect all. There is NO Simple Solution.

mickhm · Post by **mickhm** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 12:59 pm

At last! my daily dose of doom and gloom. Gosh I was missing it. I always believed that if you hAd a deal with someone it was a two way street. They got something and you got something. Whats wrong with that? and as for people voted about immigration seems to me to be the most racist kind of statement of all. I am not a racist. i doubt if you could find anyone in the UK that is not a mongrel of some kind. There are many reasons why the majority voted to leave. For me it was getting back some control from unelected officals. I want to be governed by someone I had the opportunity to vote for.

niceone · Post by **niceone** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 1:24 pm

Britain will almost certainly cut a deal with the EU, they have to

A lot has been said about Norway, well Brussels still dictates to them and they pay big bucks and HAVE to allow freedom of movement for EU members

details here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2 ... _relations

elizabeth · Post by **elizabeth** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 1:34 pm

scubadubaqueen wrote:
elizabeth wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rexit.html
Wearing rose tinted glasses, read the whole article. They are queuing up to sell stuff to the UK, like flooding the place with cheap Chinese imports of lessor quality, manufactured by people on minuscule wages. Exactly what will Britain be exporting to them, aside from the odd high end commodity made in Britain that will not be so Great anymore? A country that was the balancing power within the EU and from now will have NO Say in how things get run within that club.

Put simplistically, whenever I have items mailed to the RoC from any EU member country I have no problems importing what the hell I like and pay no VAT or Duty and no questions are asked, no matter the value. However, if any parcel arrives with a value stated as over Euros 17 or thereabouts from outside the EU, then I have to go to the Customs House and pay VAT, and if over Euros 150 value then an additional Customs Duty, making imports from China rather costly, not to mention that the postage too can either be very slow (taking months on occasions from China) or way more costly if you want it in a hurry! Stuff arriving to the North.... well there is no method to the madness. I have stood for an hour to hand over 5 lira on occasions, and on other occasions paid nothing on things of far greater value. And he who has not crossed over Metahan at some point with something more than they should have without declaring same, then let them cast the first stone!

Not having access to the EU Single Market will hit people more than they realise, but with access comes free movement of people, which kind of negates what so many Brexiteers voted for. I think most so riled up about this immigration business, that they could not see the wood from the trees.

Illegal immigration from outside the EU being the real problem, and most of those are still confined to mainland Europe held back in Calais for now (the UK is not part of Shengen, so we have maintained our borders unlike others in the EU). The problem is not the immigrants from the EU, many of whom are on minimum UK wages doing jobs indigenous Brits would not want to do anyway, rather claim benefits instead! Remember the flood of West Indians in the 50s and 60s who drove the buses, and have supported the NHS, the flood of Asians from Uganda in the 70s many of whom took to running the corner shops and who introduced curry on mass to the UK? Asians mostly very hard working people. Perhaps those in the UK who claims to be British and want to get rid of all immigrants, should have a DNA test before they cast stones. The Brexit campaign was based mainly on immigration issues, so let's make no bones about that. It was shameful, but the repercussions of this, will affect all. There is NO Simple Solution.

You seem to be obsessed about immigration, not the Brexit supporters. Nobody said it would be plain sailing, of course there will be a period of instability but for goodness sake stop being so negative about everything, are you trying to talk the country down.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 1:37 pm

niceone wrote:Britain will almost certainly cut a deal with the EU, they have to

A lot has been said about Norway, well Brussels still dictates to them and they pay big bucks and HAVE to allow freedom of movement for EU members

details here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2 ... _relations

They are also 26 on the list economies, do the US,China,Japan HAVE to accept freedom of movement regulations to trade with the EU?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... _(nominal)

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 3:08 pm

When coming to my decision wether to remain or leave, the subject of immigration was well down my list of priorities which influenced my thoughts. I do believe we should be more in control of who enters the UK but it was not my reason for deciding that leaving the EU would be in the best interests of the UK.

Number 1 on my list was having unelected, faceless beuracrats, making laws and decisions which were not in the best interests of the UK plus the unaccountability of those working in the EU. The people on the EU commission making laws and legislation cannot be removed from office by a democratic vote. Strangely enough, many of them used to be MP's or the equivalent in their home country who were removed from office after an election....they sidestepped into an EU role and we cannot remove them from office.

Number 2 was the amount the UK paid in to the EU, I was not convinced we were getting value for our money.

Number 3 was the move by the EU towards an EU super state, EU army etc

Number 4 was my concerns about what seemed to me to be the increasingly dictatorial attitude displayed by some very influencial EU ministers. The "you will do as you are told" attitude was not in the spirit of cooperation between member states. The UK deciding to leave the EU has rattled them for sure.

Across any political divide there are always those on the fringes who take things to far, the immigration issue is something that a minority of those who voted leave have latched onto for sure. However, I am sure the majority do not feel the same. Andrea Leadsom who campaigned to leave certainly does not, she has stated there will be no chnage to their status but has said the UK does need to bring in controls for the future.

Long way to go but almost 2 weeks on I am still happy with the vote to leave. The country has not collapsed and nor will it.

niceone · Post by **niceone** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 3:12 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2 ... _relations[/quote]
They are also 26 on the list economies, do the US,China,Japan HAVE to accept freedom of movement regulations to trade with the EU?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... _(nominal)[/quote]

that link does not work and when I went to school the US, China and Japan were not in Europe LOL, That is the difference

niceone · Post by **niceone** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 3:12 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2 ... _relations[/quote]
They are also 26 on the list economies, do the US,China,Japan HAVE to accept freedom of movement regulations to trade with the EU?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... _(nominal)[/quote]

that link does not work and when I went to school the US, China and Japan were not in Europe LOL, That is the difference

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 3:45 pm

niceone, I think that the deal goes something like this...

'If, as a member country of the EU, you want 'unrestricted free trade' with Europe, that is, no import taxes, no permits required, no extra certifications required on electrical goods, etc, then you have to accept the 'freedom of movement regulations'.

If you don't accept the Freedom of movement thing, it doesn't mean that you can't deal with an EU country, it's just a lot more complicated, and expensive...

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 3:53 pm

niceone wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2 ... _relations

They are also 26 on the list economies, do the US,China,Japan HAVE to accept freedom of movement regulations to trade with the EU?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... _(nominal)[/quote]

that link does not work and when I went to school the US, China and Japan were not in Europe LOL, That is the difference[/quote]
Still works for me, are we talking continental plates, EU membership or something else ?

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 4:03 pm

oops!

Sorry Kerry, I think that niceone's post went a bit wonky, quote-wise, and I didn't realise that I was responding to an earlier post of yours.

Anyway, I think that the moment has passed....

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 6:35 am

No worries Keith didn't take it you were replying to me anyway .

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