Nigel Farage resigns as UKIP leader

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 1:21 pm

Nigel Farage resigns as UKIP leader (source: BBC NEWS)

How many were mis-led by his lies?

thickey · Post by **thickey** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 1:38 pm

better late than never.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 1:40 pm

keith
Which lies would they be then ?

scubadubaqueen · Post by **scubadubaqueen** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 1:51 pm

Amazing isn't it? How these so called champions of the winning Brexit Campaign, just can not deliver.

Instead they run away, damage now having been done. Cowards of the first order.

My view is that if there were another referendum today, that there would be a huge majority of the British People voting remain. I believe that would be the right thing to do given all the lies. I think a lot of good could still come out of that though too, as a massive wake up call to the EU, that things are not all rosey in the garden, and it would ensure the UK has a voice even stronger than it did before.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 2:01 pm

I will ask again then...what lies ?

scubadubaqueen · Post by **scubadubaqueen** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 2:11 pm

turtle wrote:I will ask again then...what lies ?

If there is one sentence that explains the referendum result, it’s this one from the website of the Advertising Standards Agency. “For reasons of freedom of speech, we do not have remit over non-broadcast ads where the purpose of the ad is to persuade voters in a local, national or international electoral referendum.” In other words, political advertising is exempt from the regulation that would otherwise bar false claims and outrageous promises. You can’t claim that a herbal diet drink will make customers thinner, but you can claim that £350m a week will go to the NHS instead of the European Union.

And of course there was the dreadful vile immigration poster too, that was totally inspired by that of Hitler himself.

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 2:19 pm

turtle wrote:I will ask again then...what lies ?

How about a real WHOPPER?

£350 Million to be saved, and spent on the NHS.

Is that one big enough for you?

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 2:32 pm

scubadubaqueen wrote:Amazing isn't it? How these so called champions of the winning Brexit Campaign, just can not deliver.

Instead they run away, damage now having been done. Cowards of the first order.

My view is that if there were another referendum today, that there would be a huge majority of the British People voting remain. I believe that would be the right thing to do given all the lies. I think a lot of good could still come out of that though too, as a massive wake up call to the EU, that things are not all rosey in the garden, and it would ensure the UK has a voice even stronger than it did before.

I am reasonably confident that should Andrea Leadsom, a prominent figure on the leave campaign, become primeminister, she will deliver.

Johnson IMO would not have been the right choice as primeminister. He is still an MP and could well be involved in discussions on EU exit when the new PM selects their cabinet.

Farage has got what he has always wanted...The UK leaving the EU. I would doubt he could go any further with his political ambitions and would have had minimal influence in the future negotiations to leave the EU. He is not an MP.

Gove is in the running for PM, however he stands little chance. He is however an MP and again could well be involved in negotiations in some form or other. I expect him to get a prominent cabinet post once new PM is in place.

To say that those who ran the leave campaign cannot deliver - lets see what happens after a new PM is in place and who they appoint to ministerial posts.....my bet is that at least one or two of the above will be fully involved and influencing as far as the negotiations are concerned. Apart from Farage, they are still all MP's.

The vote has been taken and the democratic will of the people has spoken.

What has come out of all this is I agree, a wake up call to the EU, it has long been needed.

brian24001 · Post by **brian24001** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 2:38 pm

There were undoubtedly a few 'stories' from both sides, but what was most apparent to me during, and more so after the referendum that there is far more 'miss-education' than 'miss-information'.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 2:41 pm

Keithcaley wrote:
turtle wrote:I will ask again then...what lies ?
How about a real WHOPPER?

£350 Million to be saved, and spent on the NHS.

Is that one big enough for you?

I think you will find "Vote Leave" came up with that slogan not Farage as you claim ?
So actually he was telling the truth when he said that this claim by the Leave EU campaign was as mistake.

Hedge-fund · Post by **Hedge-fund** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 2:53 pm

turtle wrote:I will ask again then...what lies ?

1. World War 3
2. Interest rates will rise.
3. Mortgages up.
4. House price collapse
5. Terrorism threat increased
6. Emergency budget
7. Calais migrant camp moved to Dover
8. Back of Obama's "queue"

oh sorry..........wrong "lies"

Farage has done himself out of a job. What's the point of UKIP if we have voted for an independent UK?

I wouldn't be surprised to see him involved in some way in the negotiations...............Sir Nigel anyone?

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 2:56 pm

turtle,

After the referendum, when he was tackled about the '£350 million for the NHS' claim, then and only then, did he claim that it was a 'mistake' by the Leave' campaign - not HIM of course, oh no, nothing to do with him!

I didn't hear him disputing it during the campaign, even though he knew darn well that it was a pack of lies at that time, he was perfectly happy for the electorate to believe anything that anyone could palm off on them, as long as they voted the way that he wanted.

There are sins of commission, and sins of omission, and the fact that he went along with someone else's lie doesn't make him any less a liar.

mickhm · Post by **mickhm** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 3:10 pm

I cant beleive that everyone seems to have been so taken in by this £350 million. Does any body actually think that if it was/is true that all that amount would go just to the NHS? What money would they have used for the other problems? ie border control/security/policing etc. Its no kore than a claim not unlike the remain party that we would have an emergency budget the next day

elizabeth · Post by **elizabeth** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 3:26 pm

I really do wish some of the Remain supporters would credit the Leave supporters with some intelligence, there were undoubtably some who did believe the 350 million slogan, but the vast majority would have made up their own minds about that claim.

The NHS funding and immigration were well down on my list of concerns, like Posh has said I was also more concerned about the threat of losing our identity and sovereignty to unelected officials.

As for lies, well anyone who is being totally honest knows full well that there were lies and counter lies from both sides, not many of them came out of the campaign squeaky clean.

Surely now it's time to put a stop to all this tit for tat and work together for the good of the country like grown ups.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 3:32 pm

The Bus actually said lets fund the NHS instead, not lets give all this to the NHS instead, the furore during the campaign seemed to around the amount quoted.
Personally I'd be disappointed if any savings didn't go to education and housing has well has the NHS and has for the amount if it was only £ 5000 it was to much.
It seems naive to think Farage could deliver anything other than an opinion with one MP the Remain campaign had free run during the campaign and chose to focus on the rebate, how could a cross party campaign group ever say what they would do?

Coca Cola - TASTE THE FEELING not Taste the sugar.

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 3:55 pm

...and watch the Phosphoric acid, 'cos it'll give you kidney stones.

I'm told that if you dilute it with Bacardi, it cancels it out!

Hammerhead · Post by **Hammerhead** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 4:23 pm

All the leavers are jumping ship

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 4:43 pm

Not this one

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 5:10 pm

michelle wrote:All the leavers are jumping ship

Who do you mean.....those that were part of the leave campaign such as Farage, Johnson, Gove, Leadsom etc? Or are there others? As I have posted earlier......Farage has resigned but IMO he would have had a minimal influence in negotiations on how the UK exits the EU. Gone as far as he can and he knows it. Johnson, pretty sure many tory MPs just could not see him as a future PM and there were some behind the scenes moves to ensure he could not get the job.....its not a nice business politics, especially when egos are to the fore and there are those plotting against you. The tory grandees such as Heseltine have massive influence still. Gove, classed as a backstabber, not universally liked by the electorate, but has put himself up for PM. Leadsom, part of the leave campaign and still is very much so. Put herself forward to lead the party and is gaining support.

Not sure theres much jumping of ship. Johnson shoved out and Farage was a non entity really as he is not an MP so despite his bluff would unlikely to be pulled into any negotiations.

Or do you mean those that voted to leave are jumping ship? If so it would be good to have factual evidence.

How we exit the EU, in what timeframes and what we negotiate will be heavily influenced by whoever is elected to lead the conservative party and is primeminister. Their ministerial appointments will probably give a much better idea.

scubadubaqueen · Post by **scubadubaqueen** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 6:02 pm

PoshinDevon wrote:
michelle wrote:All the leavers are jumping ship
Not sure theres much jumping of ship. Johnson shoved out and Farage was a non entity really as he is not an MP so despite his bluff would unlikely to be pulled into any negotiations.

Or do you mean those that voted to leave are jumping ship? If so it would be good to have factual evidence.

So now you say Nigel Farage was a "Non Entity". The one that stood in front of a huge poster whose inspiration was taken from the ideologies of Hitler, and was used as the main driver of the advertising campaign, along with the funding of the NHS that he then claimed to be a mistake...

An advertising campaign that if it were not political would have immediately been disallowed by the Advertising Standards Authority (see my earlier post), but Farage & Co knew that, so they played a very dirty game; The Remain Camp believed I guess, that the masses were a little more intelligent than to make their choice based on such hype, be it very powerful hype that appealed to many in the UK. Most notably in former Left Wing Socialist areas of Britain, pre New Labour that appeared post Thatcher, and now at the other extreme those same areas vote extreme Right Wing, and so one really has to question their motives? The biggest mistake of course, was calling a referendum in the first place, and handing the decision over to the people.

And as for those that voted for Brexit and now wished they had not, having been lied to so blatantly, well I guess without a second referendum, we will never know, but if there were, I would wager 20 million to remain and 13 million at best to get out based on the same turn out, but not necessarily the same demographics.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 6:15 pm

The biggest mistake of course, was calling a referendum in the first place, and handing the decision over to the people.

How Patronizing...

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 6:20 pm

scubadubaqueen wrote:
PoshinDevon wrote:
michelle wrote:All the leavers are jumping ship
Not sure theres much jumping of ship. Johnson shoved out and Farage was a non entity really as he is not an MP so despite his bluff would unlikely to be pulled into any negotiations.

Or do you mean those that voted to leave are jumping ship? If so it would be good to have factual evidence.
So now you say Nigel Farage was a "Non Entity". The one that stood in front of a huge poster whose inspiration was taken from the ideologies of Hitler, and was used as the main driver of the advertising campaign, along with the funding of the NHS that he then claimed to be a mistake...

Just to make it clear, I am specifically talking about the post where it is suggested that the leavers are jumping ship.....not
what happened prior to the EU vote. Farage was a part of the leave campaign, however now, post the vote, Farage is simply an MEP who in time will be out of a job. He is in my opinion now a non entity....that is to say he is not an MP, would not be involved in the exit negotiations and has gone as far as he can. He knows this as well, hence his resignation.

An advertising campaign that if it were not political would have immediately been disallowed by the Advertising Standards Authority (see my earlier post), but Farage & Co knew that, so they played a very dirty game; The Remain Camp believed I guess, that the masses were a little more intelligent than to make their choice based on such hype, be it
very powerful hype that appealed to many in the UK. Most notably in former Left Wing Socialist areas of Britain, pre
New Labour that appeared post Thatcher, and now at the other extreme those same areas vote extreme Right Wing, and so one really has to question their motives? The biggest mistake of course, was calling a referendum in the first place, and handing the decision over to the people.

Asking the people to decide on whether to remain or leave the EU was a brave decision and the right one. Cameron lost, resigned as he should and we await a new PM. The electorate deserved to have a say.

And as for those that voted for Brexit and now wished they had not, having been lied to so blatantly, well I guess without a second referendum, we will never know, but if there were, I would wager 20 million to remain and 13 million at best to
get out based on the same turn out, but not necessarily the same demographics.

I am still waiting for evidence which shows that there are that many who voted to leave and now wish they had not. There will not be a second referendum, the decision has been made.

Once we know who is the next primeminister and see who is appointed to the cabinet and senior ministerial positions then I think we will have a clearer idea of when we will submit article 50 and what form negotiations will take.

scubadubaqueen · Post by **scubadubaqueen** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 7:05 pm

Correction to you above Quote Posh, I did not state in my original post:

"Just to make it clear, I am specifically talking about the post where it is suggested that the leavers are jumping ship.....not
what happened prior to the EU vote. Farage was a part of the leave campaign, however now, post the vote, Farage is simply an MEP who in time will be out of a job. He is in my opinion now a non entity....that is to say he is not an MP, would not be involved in the exit negotiations and has gone as far as he can. He knows this as well, hence his resignation."

AND

"Asking the people to decide on whether to remain or leave the EU was a brave decision and the right one. Cameron lost, resigned as he should and we await a new PM. The electorate deserved to have a say."

You appear to have misquoted me. Those are your words not mine. Need to pay a little more attention, me thinks.

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 7:22 pm

Give Nigel Farage a Knighthood for making UK independence a reality!

The most influential person in British politics in recent times and along with the brexit team has saved the U.K.'s national sovereignty from being wiped out in favour of a federal superstate do the remainers still not get this ? do the remainers really hate the U.K. that much to want their nation state abolished by unelected faceless Beurocrats ?

"The destruction of national sovereignty is the ideological driving force
behind the Brussels oligarchs as they plot to build their federal superstate.

That explains why they are so obsessed with free movement, mass immigration and
cultural diversity. Those are all instruments for smashing traditional nationhood and
creating a new common European citizenship. As the EU’s rulers know only too well, a
country without any borders or identity is not a country at all."

Thank god Nigel had the strength to carry this through.

Mowgli597 · Post by **Mowgli597** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 7:22 pm

elizabeth wrote:I really do wish some of the Remain supporters would credit the Leave supporters with some intelligence,
..............

like Posh has said I was also more concerned about the threat of losing our identity and sovereignty to unelected officials.

So please, would these intelligent people stop trotting out this myth about "unelected officials"?

EUROMYTH #3: RULE FROM BRUSSELS

British critics of the EU like to argue that Britain is losing control to unelected bureaucrats in Brussels (by which they mainly mean the European Commission). While the senior staff of the Commission are indeed unelected, so are bureaucrats almost everywhere, including those in Whitehall.

And those staff – as well as being appointed by the elected governments of the member states, and being subject to confirmation in their positions by the elected European Parliament, and having to report regularly to the EP – cannot make final decisions on EU law or policy. Those decisions are made by the Council of Ministers (consisting of ministers from the elected governments of the member states) and the elected EP.

Furthermore, the general direction of the EU is guided by the European Council, consisting of the elected heads of government (or state) of the 28 EU member states. And all the EU institutions are accountable to the treaties and the European Court of Justice.

The idea that there is a European government in Brussels with independent powers is nothing more than a myth.

My emphases

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 7:31 pm

But surely the so called "elected" people are NOT elected by the people who reside in the 28 countries so in principle they are not elected ?

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 9:16 pm

Brexit: Facts Not Fear - a short film by Toby Young.

Mowgli597, Thanks for your message number 25.
As always there is two sides or even more to a debate. Google the above short film, it presents a different viewpoint about those making EU law and the affect on the UK.

We agree to disagree.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 9:22 pm

Munchkin wrote:Give Nigel Farage a Knighthood for making UK independence a reality!

The most influential person in British politics in recent times and along with the brexit team has saved the U.K.'s national sovereignty from being wiped out in favour of a federal superstate do the remainers still not get this ? do the remainers really hate the U.K. that much to want their nation state abolished by unelected faceless Beurocrats ?

"The destruction of national sovereignty is the ideological driving force
behind the Brussels oligarchs as they plot to build their federal superstate.

That explains why they are so obsessed with free movement, mass immigration and
cultural diversity. Those are all instruments for smashing traditional nationhood and
creating a new common European citizenship. As the EU’s rulers know only too well, a
country without any borders or identity is not a country at all."

Thank god Nigel had the strength to carry this through.

"Carry this through"

Hardly..
Just like Mr Johnson he has cut and run to leave others to clean up the mess that they have inflicted upon us all.

How on earth do you surmise that Remain camp hate the UK? I think the ultra right wing hate campaigns that we are currently experiencing in the UK as result of BREXIT is rather closer to the truth and destroying my country from within.
There is no obsession with free movement . It is a prerequisite for access to the single market. The UK needs and wants access to the single market.

I think further research and understanding would go a long way.
The departure of Mr Farage does not surprise me and I am glad to see him go.
Knighthood? Oh I do hope not.

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 9:30 pm

scubadubaqueen,

Re your post 23, I think there must have been a technical blip when I submitted my message, hence it looks as if I misquoted you. This is not the case. Therefore I have posted my thoughts below which hopefully makes things clearer:-

I am specifically talking about the post 17 where it is suggested that the leavers are jumping ship.....not
what happened prior to the EU vote. Farage was a part of the leave campaign, however now, post the vote, Farage is simply an MEP who in time will be out of a job. He is in my opinion now a non entity....that is to say he is not an MP, would not be involved in the exit negotiations and has gone as far as he can. He knows this as well, hence his resignation.

Asking the people to decide on whether to remain or leave the EU was a brave decision and the right one. Cameron lost, resigned as he should and we await a new PM. The electorate deserved to have a say.

I am still waiting for evidence which shows that there are that many who voted to leave and now wish they had not. There will not be a second referendum, the decision has been made.

Once we know who is the next primeminister and see who is appointed to the cabinet and senior ministerial positions then I think we will have a clearer idea of when we will submit article 50 and what form negotiations will take.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 9:46 pm

POSH
Mr Farage was a pivotal leader of the BREXIT Campaign.
His resignation will have shocked many who viewed him as a leader and pillar of strength in the campaign.
I doubt any will have expected him to resign after his victorious independence claim.
Certainly, in my view, and if I was a indeed a BREXIT fan then I would be rather worried that there appears to be a distinct reluctance to take the helm.

I think many people feel rather more enlightened upon the realities that BREXIT has presented . The economic hit has yet to be truly felt but racial tensions, Potential breakup of the UK. Complete melt down of UK politics. are serious and important issues that are not good for our country.

I think you are correct on the importance and timing of a decision for submission of article 50. The timing is not clear and I do not expect it to become any clearer for some time to come.
Many in the UK will not have any interest or understanding of the relevance.
Most still take the view that BREXIT is simply a cure to the immigration issue.

OldDog · Post by **OldDog** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 10:04 pm

Worry not. The serial liar, war criminal and featherer of his own nest Tony Blair seems to believe that he is the man who can steer the UK through it's brexit negotiations! I would leave for the planet Zog but I fear that he may be there already. Is hubris catching?

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 11:03 pm

Perhaps it may be better to clarify and define certain points; while economy, money and trade may be important points, all the claims/accusations of racism are almost totally unfounded - racism no, stupid, illogical nationalism (IMO) yes - because "I was born here, so I'm this nationality, he/she was born there so he/she is a dirty foreigner who's going to take everything from me..... Oh, wait a minute - I was born there, so I must be the dirty foreigner, and I'm entitled to go and steal someone else's job etc.....
I'm the real racist - because I have nothing but the utmost contempt for the human race, because the great majority are so selfish, vicious and belligerent merely over where a person or their parents happen to be born....
"National sovereignty" - it disgusts me - think of "National Socialism" and how it was better known..... let's go back to the Wars of the Roses, York v. Lancaster.... even better, let's start a war over gender - after all, same thing - how you were born - that's what matters.....
Another forum that I frequent has (in the joke section) asked whether we should put down all the German Shepherd dogs, stop using continental quilts, have 'dead-end streets' instead of 'cul-de-sacs' - at least, there they have a sense of humour....

rigsby · Post by **rigsby** » Mon 04 Jul 2016 11:51 pm

This is the way I see it,Nigel has spent 17 years trying to get us out.He has done it so he wants his life back.Well Done Nigel.

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 4:54 am

Mowgli597 wrote:
elizabeth wrote:I really do wish some of the Remain supporters would credit the Leave supporters with some intelligence,
..............

like Posh has said I was also more concerned about the threat of losing our identity and sovereignty to unelected officials.
So please, would these intelligent people stop trotting out this myth about "unelected officials"?

EUROMYTH #3: RULE FROM BRUSSELS

British critics of the EU like to argue that Britain is losing control to unelected bureaucrats in Brussels (by which they mainly mean the European Commission). While the senior staff of the Commission are indeed unelected, so are bureaucrats almost everywhere, including those in Whitehall.

And those staff – as well as being appointed by the elected governments of the member states, and being subject to confirmation in their positions by the elected European Parliament, and having to report regularly to the EP – cannot make final decisions on EU law or policy. Those decisions are made by the Council of Ministers (consisting of ministers from the elected governments of the member states) and the elected EP.

Furthermore, the general direction of the EU is guided by the European Council, consisting of the elected heads of government (or state) of the 28 EU member states. And all the EU institutions are accountable to the treaties and the European Court of Justice.

The idea that there is a European government in Brussels with independent powers is nothing more than a myth.

My emphases

There is the world of difference between the bureaucrats of Brussels and the UK. It is this - the UK has no control of the Brussels variety...

The UK bureaucracy is under the guidance of UK Government and has to act upon the laws passed down from Parliament not the whims of the EU Council of Ministers and the rest of the EU machinery...

Even the likes of Jean-Claude Juncker recognise this fact and now realise that it is largely to blame for many of the member state's dissatisfaction with the EU.

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 7:22 am

[quote="waz-24-7"]POSH
Mr Farage was a pivotal leader of the BREXIT Campaign.
His resignation will have shocked many who viewed him as a leader and pillar of strength in the campaign.
I doubt any will have expected him to resign after his victorious independence claim.
Certainly, in my view, and if I was a indeed a BREXIT fan then I would be rather worried that there appears to be a distinct reluctance to take the helm.

I think many people feel rather more enlightened upon the realities that BREXIT has presented . The economic hit has yet to be truly felt but racial tensions, Potential breakup of the UK. Complete melt down of UK politics. are serious and important issues that are not good for our country.

I think you are correct on the importance and timing of a decision for submission of article 50. The timing is not clear and I do not expect it to become any clearer for some time to come.
Many in the UK will not have any interest or understanding of the relevance.
Most still take the view that BREXIT is simply a cure to the immigration issue.[/quo

waz-24-7

Sorry but I am reall struggling to understand your comments especially that there is a "distinct reluctance to take the helm"

The helm as you put it is in the hands of Cameron as he is still PM. He has triggered a leadership election which will then
see a new PM who will be responsible for deciding when article 50 will be submitted and no doubt strongly influence the
way negotiations will go with the EU. Negotiations will start with the EU when the new PM is at the helm Farage pre
referendum was a high profile leave campaigner. Post referendum he is not an MP, never was, but an MEP who in time
will be out of a job. He is not going to be PM. Therefore he was never going to take the helm and would therefore be sat outside looking in on any negotiations. Of the other high profiles on the leave campaign. Johnson was eased aside by
clever political manouvering....I suspect the tory grandees such as Heseltine influenced heavily. He is still and MP and whilst will not be at the helm, I would not be surprised if he is given a senior position in the new cabinet so will very much be involved. Of the others, both Gove and Leadsom have an opportunity to take the helm once the leadership
result is known and new PM in place. Once again I believe that whatever happens they will both be taking a leading role
in negotiations. So reluctance to take the helm is not a sound argument. There is no reluctance as the new captain is not yet appointed.

Break up of the UK - The SNP leader may pontificate but she knows that she needs to firstly trigger a second referendum on leaving the UK and get the vote to leave. By no means certain. Then despite her pleading to the EU she will then have to formally apply to join the EU. If she calls a referendum and loses it will be a huge blow to the SNP. Her economic arguments are weaker and in order to join the EU will mean meeting various economic, fiscal etc criteria plus entry voted
on and agreed by all member states. No convinced it will happen.

Immigration - As with any mass group there will always be those on the fringes which give the group a bad name. There are those who for whatever reasons are using the vote to leave as a platform to incite racism. That is very dissapointing. However there are many more who reject this view and in no way represent the majority. To say that most on the Brexit side see it as a cure for immigration is wrong. Whilst gaining more control of the UK border and who is allowed into the country was part of the leave campaign, there were many other reasons why people voted to leave the EU. Immigration was well down my list as a reason to leave.

The timing of submission of article 50 will very much depend on who becomes PM. Leadsom has said it will be triggerred quickly and likely Gove will be of the same mind. May as a remain voter will probably take a little longer. As for the other tory candidates, I am not sure but it seems unlikely they will become PM. We will also disagree on the interest and understanding about the timing of the submission of article 50 and its relevance - I think there will be plenty of interest on both the leave and remain camps and to suggest little understanding is a just a little condescending.

Johnny Lee · Post by **Johnny Lee** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 11:30 am

What an outstanding man, He got us released from the dreadful corrupt organisation. Like someone posted he did what he set out to do and now wants his life back. Then hopefully in time the UK can get it's life back.

Why is anyone who wants to stop mass immigration to an already vastly overpopulated country branded a racist. ??

rosiesmidge · Post by **rosiesmidge** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 12:11 pm

how come all the remain voters seem to think that they alone are in the right, the insults I have read and heard the last couple of weeks have been pathetic and down right insulting, acting like spoilt children who can't have their own way, I for one did not believe and in fact laughed at the claims the politician were making on both sides of the political divide, I made my decision from having watched the uk slide into a country that was afraid to be proud of its rich heritage and history , was being dictated to be a unelected junta that on the whole despises the UK and were quite happy to run us into the ground , I do not believe a word that comes out of most politicians mouths but out of the EU we now have only one layer of bureaucracy to worry about

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 12:37 pm

rosiesmidge wrote:how come all the remain voters seem to think that they alone are in the right, the insults I have read and heard the last couple of weeks have been pathetic and down right insulting, acting like spoilt children who can't have their own way, I for one did not believe and in fact laughed at the claims the politician were making on both sides of the political divide, I made my decision from having watched the uk slide into a country that was afraid to be proud of its rich heritage and history , was being dictated to be a unelected junta that on the whole despises the UK and were quite happy to run us into the ground , I do not believe a word that comes out of most politicians mouths but out of the EU we now have only one layer of bureaucracy to worry about

Here here...

Lurucinali · Post by **Lurucinali** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 12:44 pm

lets have a look at the lies claimed by Brexiteers.

1. They would save 350 Million per week from the EU when in fact when you consider all the money paid back as help it drops down to 190 Million.
2. They claimed Turkey is about to join the EU when in reality Turkey has been negotiating to join the EU since 1963 and may need another 30 years before it becomes reality.
3. They should up the countries on a map which included Iraq and Syria as part of Turkey.
4, But this idea of us not having any control at the same time as saying that we are unable to look after our interests because other countries keep blocking our proposals. So how do they have control and not us?
5. The idea that they will be able to negotiate a deal that would allow us to trade with the Eu and block EU migration. Clearly an impossible request.
6, The image of Syrians in a line claiming we are full or what ever the claim was, when we are allowing less than 5000 into the UK and Germany has accepted nearly a million refugees.
7. That these people are migrants and not refugees while our armed forces are bombing the hell out of them flattening their homes as we speak.
8. Taking control of what exactly? Do we really have any control of our MPs? or the Lords or perhaps the Queen our head of state?

Talk of turkeys voting for Christmas indeed. Christmas has come very early this year. Shall I go on or is that enough to begin with?

But the icing on the cake was when an area voted to leave knowing they receive money from EU and asking the UK government to guarantee their EU funding.

This makes excellent viewing. The upper class has always been able to split the working class and rule them for a very long time. Enjoy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... ain-speaks

woodspeckie · Post by **woodspeckie** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 1:07 pm

That's enough, we have heard it all before you joined the forum yesterday, the U.K. Is leaving the EU and nothing you say can make a difference to the result voted for by people who made their own minds up why.

woodspeckie · Post by **woodspeckie** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 1:09 pm

rosiesmidge wrote:how come all the remain voters seem to think that they alone are in the right, the insults I have read and heard the last couple of weeks have been pathetic and down right insulting, acting like spoilt children who can't have their own way, I for one did not believe and in fact laughed at the claims the politician were making on both sides of the political divide, I made my decision from having watched the uk slide into a country that was afraid to be proud of its rich heritage and history , was being dictated to be a unelected junta that on the whole despises the UK and were quite happy to run us into the ground , I do not believe a word that comes out of most politicians mouths but out of the EU we now have only one layer of bureaucracy to worry about

Here here.

Geoff1131 · Post by **Geoff1131** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 1:18 pm

Lurucinali,

Can I address some of your points? I think we can all agree that people on both sides of the debate made incorrect claims.

1. The 350million, yes it was a mistake to claim that the UK would be better off by 350 mill, it is as you say ONLY £190 million. But I can cope with that.
2-3 Not relevant.
4. The UK tried on many occasions to block EU rulings but were voted down on most of these. So UK Meps voting in the EU is ineffectual.
5, In my opinion, no deal = no trade. And as the EU will be more disadvantaged by not trading with the UK I think a deal is highly probable.
6-7 Stop bombing Syria!!!!!!!!!!!!
8, The electorate in the UK can now vote to change the party in power if they do not perform. The UK electorate could never vote out the EU if it did not perform.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 1:37 pm

Lurucinali wrote:lets have a look at the lies claimed by Brexiteers.

1. They would save 350 Million per week from the EU when in fact when you consider all the money paid back as help it drops down to 190 Million.
2. They claimed Turkey is about to join the EU when in reality Turkey has been negotiating to join the EU since 1963 and may need another 30 years before it becomes reality.
3. They should up the countries on a map which included Iraq and Syria as part of Turkey.
4, But this idea of us not having any control at the same time as saying that we are unable to look after our interests because other countries keep blocking our proposals. So how do they have control and not us?
5. The idea that they will be able to negotiate a deal that would allow us to trade with the Eu and block EU migration. Clearly an impossible request.
6, The image of Syrians in a line claiming we are full or what ever the claim was, when we are allowing less than 5000 into the UK and Germany has accepted nearly a million refugees.
7. That these people are migrants and not refugees while our armed forces are bombing the hell out of them flattening their homes as we speak.
8. Taking control of what exactly? Do we really have any control of our MPs? or the Lords or perhaps the Queen our head of state?

Talk of turkeys voting for Christmas indeed. Christmas has come very early this year. Shall I go on or is that enough to begin with?

But the icing on the cake was when an area voted to leave knowing they receive money from EU and asking the UK government to guarantee their EU funding.

This makes excellent viewing. The upper class has always been able to split the working class and rule them for a very long time. Enjoy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... ain-speaks

In the interest of balance would you care to list the lies that the remain camp trotted out please ?

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 1:57 pm

rosiesmidge wrote:how come all the remain voters seem to think that they alone are in the right, the insults I have read and heard the last couple of weeks have been pathetic and down right insulting, acting like spoilt children who can't have their own way, I for one did not believe and in fact laughed at the claims the politician were making on both sides of the political divide, I made my decision from having watched the uk slide into a country that was afraid to be proud of its rich heritage and history , was being dictated to be a unelected junta that on the whole despises the UK and were quite happy to run us into the ground , I do not believe a word that comes out of most politicians mouths but out of the EU we now have only one layer of bureaucracy to worry about

Well said and it needed saying, particularly the last sentence.

elizabeth · Post by **elizabeth** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 2:16 pm

rosiesmidge wrote:how come all the remain voters seem to think that they alone are in the right, the insults I have read and heard the last couple of weeks have been pathetic and down right insulting, acting like spoilt children who can't have their own way, I for one did not believe and in fact laughed at the claims the politician were making on both sides of the political divide, I made my decision from having watched the uk slide into a country that was afraid to be proud of its rich heritage and history , was being dictated to be a unelected junta that on the whole despises the UK and were quite happy to run us into the ground , I do not believe a word that comes out of most politicians mouths but out of the EU we now have only one layer of bureaucracy to worry about

Here, here, absolutely spot on.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 2:52 pm

Elizabeth and RR.
You must not forget that 16 million people voted remain. It is very clear that the REMAIN camp are very much in a minority on this forum.
We too have a voice that needs to and is being heard.
I have indeed been subjected to the wrath and insults that you refer too. I am rather more thick skinned to take much notice and moderators have acted properly to the culprits who will remain nameless.

Robin, Yet again we harp back to the good old days. Leaving the EU in my opinion will certainly not make Britain great again based on the premise that we have only ourselves to answer too.

Today sterling falls yet again to now a 45 yr low. Is Britain great again? Certainly climbing out from the BREXIT pit we find ourselves in will be a challenge.
The great people that gave us BREXIT, Farage and Johnson have left the building.
Could you or someone give us all the plan for the next years to at least recover or even make us great.
It makes me rather cross that you still go on about how we are going to be great again when you have in part inflicted on us all such a catastrophe .
A self inflicted disaster. I predict that we will all see the price increase and pain that a weak currency delivers well before Christmas.
Your £1 ( 10 days ago) is now effectively worth 88 pence ( give or take a tiny bit)
Great news I think not.
What is tl today? certainly less than 1.4

Geoff1131 · Post by **Geoff1131** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 2:59 pm

wazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........sorry nodded off again

Lurucinali · Post by **Lurucinali** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 3:18 pm

Well at least switch off the lights and trun your pc off Geoff and save some electricity

elizabeth · Post by **elizabeth** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 3:23 pm

The beginning of a country free from European constraints.

Lurucinali · Post by **Lurucinali** » Tue 05 Jul 2016 4:27 pm

Enjoy.

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