Smart water meters

[come_on_aylin]

He made it quite clear, if the translation is correct, that the cost is 5.5TL per tonne regardless of whether you use 1 or 100 tonnes. Installation is 3200 TL plus 16% VAT. Skirted around the question re charge for Turkish Cypriots. All tanker deliveries to be banned, so I assume he is condoning pools being filled up from mains which I find surprising. Why don't the Belediye utilise the existing wells (what's going to happen to them?) to provide pool water. What's going to happen to all the tanker drivers when the ban comes into play? Guess it could take a while to implement while they roll out the infrastructure to all the houses not already on mains. Anyone using water supplied from anywhere other than mains will be fined. That's how I read it anyway.

[guru]

A bit confused about the 3200 TL + VAT charge! Is this for people that currently DON'T have a mains water supply or smart meter and thus need all the infrastructure putting in, or is this a blanket charge to ALL residents irrespective of whether you already have an incoming mains supply and new meter?

[come_on_aylin]

It wasn't made clear but I am hoping it's for houses not already on mains. Check out the video on the link above, subtitles on the video.

[Geoff1131]

Very interesting. It seemed too me that the Mayor dodged the questions about whether there was different prices being charged to different people.

Geoff

[waddo]

Nothing really clear apart from how much money it will cost per ton, tanker delivery will be stopped, only mains supplied water will be allowed and everyone will be fined one way or another! I would think the charge of 3200TL + KDV will refer to those not already connected to the main supply but as there is no mention of how much just a new meter will cost, that issue is a bit cloudy. I guess he is going to employ all the out of work tanker drivers and their families to check on peoples well's (hmmm well diggers, another area suddenly out of business) or to check and see if people are stealing water - smuggling it in in big bottles from a different Belediye - or maybe use them as the road gang to repair the roads (the cost of repair being included in the 3200TL per household by the look of it), those would be the roads that the repair work to has already been paid for once? He did mention the constitution in his reply and I wonder if that is a constitution signed by all the Belediye for the provision of water or the existing TRNC constitution itself?

Also interested to know if there will be a different charge for agricultural water as opposed to household water - as there is for electricity supply to wells and to households? If the water used for agriculture is set at 5.5TL per tonne then the Island will rapidly become a desert! Also think about the knock on effect to water tank and water pump sales if you are only allowed to use mains water then it will be under pressure and you would not need a top and bottom tank nor a pump to pressure it with? Of course you will have a promise from the Belediye that water will be supplied 365/24/7 - I think not!

To me, it seems like the Esentepe Belediye is making hay (Cash) whilst the sun shines and that the alien community will find themselves checked with much more regularity than the native community. But then it takes me a lot to trust people and this man does not impart trust in me! For now and the immediate future my camera will travel with me wherever I go, just in case I happen upon a car being washed from well water.........

[JBA]

Somebody might ask the mayor how they will get water to the fire engines if all the tankers have disappeared. Or maybe the high infrastructure cost is because they intent to cover the surrounding hills with fire hydrants.

[johnerebus]

Yes I agree some clarification on some points is needed, i.e. cost of new meters. However I also think Graham did extremely well and had to tread very softly during the interview (it wasn't your local MP's surgery) and even more so to even get an interview. Well done Graham.

[tomsteel]

Sadly, the questioning did NOT seek answers on differing costs for village inhabitants and those living on estates/houses outside of Esentepe, differing water costs for both category of user, those currently with meters and piping to their houses, albeit not on mains, or those with no current water infrastructure. I can reliably inform this forum that expats in Esentepe village and others living outside but on mains paid, 350 YTL for their new meter, plus 200+ YTL for infrastructure costs, not 3200 YTL! Why the difference? A question that should have been posed. Also, his skirting around the question of Cypriot/Mainland Turk charge as opposed to expats should have been re-posed and an answer sought. A missed opportunity in my view, so now to the legal route and appeal under Article 8 of the TRNC Constitution. johnerebus, I note you give Esentepe as a location. Are you on mains and if so, how much did you pay for the new meter, infrastructure and price per tonne please?

[Art]

Firstly,

Thank you Graham for organising ,taking part and for actually getting some useful information.

Two things became apparent- the mayor completely side stepped the issue of the locals paying the same connection charges and he also avoided the question raised about connection charges for those already receiving mains water..I think we all know the outcome.

As for the rest of the interview given that it will become illegal to source water in any other way it brings me back to my previous post....NO MONEY...NO WATER......good luck to those wishing to challenge the costs.

[Geoff1131]

Just wondering If, after the Mayors comments. Does anything he say contravene TRNC rules and regulations? I know it has been said that the constitution stipulates that any discrimination is forbidden, but does the situation we are faced with actually fit with this rule? tomsteel, could you have a word with your Cypriot neighbour to get his views? and maybe also your friend who is in the legal profession and get their advice as to if there is any way to challenge this. There will be lots of elderly ( and some not so elderly ) people who will really struggle to pay for this water supply. From what I have heard about other local councils, it would seem that Esentepe are acting completely at odds with the rest. I do not mind paying my fair share of any costs. And if the costs were fairly distributed between all people living in the Esentepe area the costs would be fair. But to penalise people who have for years been forced to pay a higher price for tankered water because there was no municipal supply and are now being penalised again into paying, not only for the supply pipes but also a premium payment for the actual meter is insane.

[tomsteel]

Geoff1131. I can but ask their views and let the forum know. I also challenge the Mayor's statement, "it will become illegal ------". Mayors do not have the legal power to make laws. That is the privilege and responsibility of elected politicians in central government. How will he police this. The TRNC Police Force only enforce legally bound decisions, so he cannot employ them to do his bidding until the TRNC Government gets such a law onto the Statute Book via the President's approval. This is a minefield and requires proper, qualified legal opinion/challenge. I am not that man!!!

[Geoff1131]

tomsteel, thanks for the reply. I was more thinking that, if it would be possible to make a legal challenge to this situation, then I for one and I would think many others would be prepared to make that challenge. But we have to know that we have more than a reasonable chance to overturn the situation. I am seeing a guy tonight who may be able to give some advice on the subject. If I get an relevant news I will post.

Geoff.

[tomsteel]

Geoff, I too would share the challenge if there is 'legal' merit behind it.

[£eagle]

All the water infrastructure for our development, near Bahceli, was installed by the developer. All that remains is for it to be connected to the new distribution boxes. In our case that is a run of about 25 metres. I do not know what it might cost to make the connection but I guess it would be a fraction only of the 1200TL per house proposed charge. I would think that the majority of the housing outside Esentepe village is on new developments which are similarly equipped with all necessary pipework up to the road.
How has the figure of 1200TL per house been conjured up?
The mayor said, in his video-ed interview, that he will be doing the road repairs. Does that mean he has an interest in a construction company or in the pipework contractor? Does he, therefore, face a conflict of interest in setting the budget?

[Geoff1131]

£eagle, we have the same on our site. When I went up to see them in Esentepe, I was told that the supply pipe would only go to the site boundary, we were responsible for the water lines inside the development. The 2000tl meter cost plus 1200tl infrastructure cost applies to every villa or apartment on every site, vat was not mentioned when I went to see them but apparently vat is now on top of the 3200tl. Happy days.

[johnerebus]

Hi Tomsteele, Yes I am in Esentepe and paid 350 TL for my meter last year after a 12 year wait but that's another (boring now) story and nothing to do with Esentepe Belediyesi. I think without looking at my receipts that I currently pay 3 TL per ton or thereabouts. As for the infrastructure etc. We have just three properties out of 21 connected with piped water. I'm the only person living on site - the other now commonplace and boring story - and it cost only the price of my meter for the water connection. I'll find out how much the other owners here will be expected to pay now for their meters and connections
As for Graham's achievement: Graham is a film maker. He is not a political interviewer / commentator and to succeed as he did to get the interview, this being the TRNC, is remarkable.
I'm not saying you were but some of the comments on this post were negative / critical and a Mahatma Gandhi quote came to mind when reading them. "It's easy to be wise with hindsight after an event but if you can do better then get off your bum and do so."

I needed to put that last bit because I know Graham was upset by some of the negative / critical comments on FB and here. However he's had lots of support since which has cancelled the negativity / criticism.....

[tomsteel]

Johnerebus, thank you for your post and offer to do some investigation. I know Graham well and have we have socialised in each others houses and at other functions and shared a Christmas Lunch at my house. I like him immensely and would never knowingly criticise any decision or action he takes in an endeavour to help. If there was even a sniff of reproach in my post(s), I unreservedly apologise to him and to other posters.
Each estate has a different need regarding piping. Our, 33 dwellings, estate has piping to each house. However, many are holiday homes for expats, others are w/e retreats for Cypriots, others are let or unoccupied and 5 are full time homes. If a proper survey had/could/would be done, it would have become immediately obvious all we need is a supply pipe of approx 20 metres and the new meters at the same price others were charged (350 YTL, not 2000).

[Art]

Tom,

I understand your very justified frustration at the apparent unfairness and wish you well in your efforts to challenge what's going on.

Seems to me that a group of like minded people should in the first instance request a meeting with the Mayor to try to understand the rationale behind the costing.Select a spoke person with a translator and the rest of the group should remain silent during the meeting..

I suggest this because the legal route in my humble opinion would be costly and un-productive,

[tomsteel]

Thank you Art. There is much merit in your suggestion. However, the devil is, as always, in the detail. My Cypriot neighbour has suggested a letter to the Interior Minister, copied to Girne District Office and the Mayor. Other owners on this site are expats in UK or w/e Cypriots whose views I know not. I am attempting to get the 'legal' view on the Mayor's decision. His rationale should have been made public ages ago. I understand also from my Cypriot neighbour that the embargo on well use has not, as yet, been passed into law - it has only been debated upon so far. The Mayor cannot, therefore, legally stop people from using well water, nor does he have the right to deny people a basic need (water). I am keen to pursue the Article 8 of the TRNC Constitution (Discrimination) angle.

I totally accept court proceedings would be time-consuming, expensive and with an iffy outcome if pursued as an expat individual.

[kibsolar1999]

It is common knowledge that cyprus has a water problem since many many years.
Less rainfall, rising temperatures, more people, more agriculture, more pools and so on. Our water table falls and falls… wells must be digged deeper, salt levels are rising, in some areas already unfit even for agriculture.eg, Güzelyurt, where you can see how quickly the citrus industry decreases.
With freshwater resources of less than 500 tons per inhabitant and a 200-250 tons groundwater abstraction per year/ inhabitant, of which agriculture uses 150-200 tons, the communal fresh water use is 50-75 tons (data RoC) , Cyprus will be a desert very soon no matter what the law about the use of wells say… or article 8.
Turkey will supply a max 75 million tons a year, comes to approx 200 tons per NC inhabitant.
But it also means that our agriculture products will see a massive price hike or products will be more and more imported from, eg, Turkey. A big discussion is going on… much bigger as this one here, farmers do not want (to pay for) the water from TR and want to continue to pump from their wells…
This “water issue” is not only the end of some water deliverers, it might become also the end of the “traditional “ (excessive water use) agriculture in Cyprus. I know farmers which need for their potatoes 1000 tons a day in summer. Another one told me: I have no funds to invest into a proper (eg computerized) irrigation system, the market did not allow this.. and any other water price as I pay now and my business is dead.
But because farmers do not pay for the water (“only” for petrol or electricity + pump equipment ) , it makes it possible that, eg, potatoes and watermelons, artichokes and tomatoes, are offered for, sometimes, redicilous prices, eg 20-40 eurocent for tomatoes in high season. Or 30 for watermelons…
The water table must be at least stabilized, that’s a main issue, that’s why the major said “all will be fined” when they get water deliveries from often illegal wells. The major did not say “will become illegal”, it is already illegal and he meant that the law will be implemented. In many places it was tolerated… eg, in appt in Kyrenia or “illegal sites and homes” , but that they want to stop. The fines already started.. in Famagusta someone was fined 420 TL for water delivery to an illegal site.. mainly used by TCs and Turks and no one wants to deliver to this site any more..
meaning, the reason that the belediyes want everybody to be connected to the mains incl new meters, is because the water from TR is , for now, “overdistributed”. But pipelines, pumps and so on, must be designed for this use. So, the belediyes need money.
So, you can fill your pool from the mains, as “the water shortage is over”. An estimated 2-3 million tons a year are lost by evaporation from pools + backwash! (this is approx 20% of communal use) Comes to a 4-5 million euros per year income for belediyes.
“a water connection” does not mean “ 400 STG for the 50mm pipe + a JCB digger” only. it means storage, distribution. Eg, 74 properties x 300 liters per day comes to 22 tons a day additionally to former use. valves, big valves, pumping (and all the time bigger pumps needed), electricity usage and so on. Also, when eg, 74 or 33 homes need to be connected to a only 20 meter away water pipe, it might be that all of the big distribution pipe must be renewed, now or later..
I believe the pumps just for the delivery to Gecitköy takes a 2 MW, 24/7, makes a 17.500 MWh/year . Or 17 million 500.000 kWh = approx more than 2 million euros a year + pumping to the several belediyes, + which have to pump it to the homes…
It is also unrealistic to think that someone will charge already existing water meters a 2000 for the new meter. Many live on minimum wages , which is 1800 TL a month.
I searched the net a bit and in Britain, the “water supplier” lays pipes to the homes… but only for registered building land. the final connection you will get for 1500 to 2000 GBP. A meter does cost 100 GBP fix charge,1 ton cost you approx 1,50 to 2 GBP , plus Sewerage including Surface Water Drainage (no matter canalization or septic).
A 75 million tons/year will be delivered from TR and the project will cost a 1,5 billion US dollars. In 20 years it comes to 1,5 billion tons of water to be delivered = 1 US dollar per ton. Plus interest rates, electricity for pumping and maintenance, say 1,5 to 2 dollars? = at the moment 4,5 to 6 lira.
So, 3200 TL for a connection and 5.5 TL for a ton is a bargain.
Many new to be connected properties or developers obviously are the first "to suffer".. but surely it will take only little time until everybody will have to pay... and learn that water is a valuable resource.

[dremydiver]

I'm in the Esentepe area and had the new smart meter fitted last year - approx £100. Would have been a great idea to have supplied a users guide - would anyone here have such info they would be willing to share?

[jofra]

Here you are - the actual manual and info as it was printed in the paper....

http://w_b_rowntree.madasafish.com/smart-meter-english-manual.pdf
http://w_b_rowntree.madasafish.com/Smart_water_meters.pdf
http://w_b_rowntree.madasafish.com/Smart_Water_meter_usage.jpg

[carrierbag]

https://translate.google.com.cy/transla ... rev=search

[Bullsnil]

I am in Esentepe near the golf club and have just tried to find out info about the water. Informed by Belediye this morning that out of the 16 villas on our site they would need the money from at least 12 of them for them to connect the water! But he also stated that each occupant had to pay 3200TL for connection until I stood and challenged him then he backed down. If you ask me nobody knows what is going on. And further more until the pipeline in completed we will never get water. It is not complete opposite Turtle Bay before anyone asks, just by Sevilla Golf Villas.

[wanderer]

Information for your survey
Bellapais have had smart/card water meters for 5/6 years
Ozankoy under Girne still on the old mechanical meters set amount out of the bank each month man on scooter doing the work

[tomsteel]

Bullsnil, TY. I am collating as much info TRNC-wide as I can before I challenge Esentepe's Mayor to justify his charges. To date, given the info I have received, his belediye is, by far, the highest charging. Others rate from nil cost and 2.5 YTL per tonne to his 3721 YTL and 9 YTL per tonne.

[elizabeth]

There was no charge for the meters when they were fitted in Lapta and the cost of water is 3TL per ton.

[tomsteel]

TY elizabeth, so noted for the database.