Hopefully Turkey will remain as guarantee?

[wondering1]

Lurucinali, your opinions on this subject I find inflammatory. To say TRNC is simply an enclave with "no future" is insulting to all who live and work here.

Do you even live here? Have you ever lived in Lurucina or live there now?


My opinion is that these negotiations are all for show, Greeks want the Turkish out, Turkish will not leave - stalemate and end of discussion.

[waddo]

"Peace requires compromise" What a wonderful idea.

Perhaps you would like to give us all an example of one meaningful compromise that the RoC has extended to the TRNC, in your memory? So long as the Greek Cypriots see the Turkish Cypriots as second class citizens and so long as they keep on getting their refugee payments, there will be no compromise, there will only be more take, take, take. I begin to think that you hope for a settlement for yourself and what you will personally gain from it - or think you will - rather than what a settlement would mean to the Turkish Cypriots both now and in the future.

But then having been accused of being both "naive beyond belief" and "from Mars", what would I know?

[DenizIsmail]

Soner, god willing I hope what you say becomes reality. I want Turkey to remain as guarantee as mentioned before history tells us that cannot trust GC. I would like Cyprus to remain divided as we are in peace and no more blood shed. And finally I would like GC to once again say NO to the referendum and rest of world to wake up and the TRNC to be recognised and for us to be able to trade

[Lurucinali]

Deniz do you have GC neighbours in London? or have you had GC neighbours in London in the past?

[DenizIsmail]

We used to have GC neighbours in North London. My late father bought the house in 1962. The GC neighbour was already living next door. My father use to say that they were not happy that a TC could buy a house just like them. However as long as my father would do what they wanted i.e where to park his car; certain errands for them they got on fine until the war in 1974. GC's will always as long as I remember would look down on us. They feel that they are superior to us. Simple things such as coffee, cheese, kebabs, deserts etc they seem to think it has all been invented by GC's. AS for Cyprus the Island has always been theirs

[Lurucinali]

We used to have GC neighbours in North London. My late father bought the house in 1962. The GC neighbour was already living next door. My father use to say that they were not happy that a TC could buy a house just like them. However as long as my father would do what they wanted i.e where to park his car; certain errands for them they got on fine until the war in 1974. GC's will always as long as I remember would look down on us. They feel that they are superior to us. Simple things such as coffee, cheese, kebabs, deserts etc they seem to think it has all been invented by GC's. AS for Cyprus the Island has always been theirs

Deniz did your late father never parked his car in front of your house? Although it is customary for one park in front of ones house, it does not belong to you, it actually belongs to the King/Queen.

Did you not have GC friends at school? Just becaue your neighbour was a jealous sort, does that make all GCs like that? When I arrived in London I went to a school in Ealing. There was only two Cypriots there, me and a GC boy. Amazingly he also had two eyes, a nose and two ears. He was normal and did not look down on me. I can say I have met over hundred GCs in my life at college and uni as well as work and have never felt in anyway being looked down on.

In 1971 we organised a football match between the Lurucina Secondary School and Limbya Secondary school. Nobody got killed, honest. Could not believe it,

As far as Cyprus is concerned the description you are giving re GCs are what Elam supporters feel and of course Apoel supporters too. Funny enough though not all Apoel supporters vote for elam. Elam gets less than 5,000 votes in election.

[waddo]

Good answers but I still await an example of a GC compromise!

[Lurucinali]

Good answers but I still await an example of a GC compromise!

1. Accept political equality
2. Accept a bigger percentage for the TC state in size than the amount of land TCs own
3. Not insist on percentage of land to be the same as percentage of coast

How about these three to begin with. As we begin to get information about the agreement, we shall have more info.

[Lurucinali]

The GCs have rejected every peace plan put forward but Turkey is at fault????

Are you suggesting that Turkey should have pulled its troops out and left the TCs to fend for themselves?

Are you actually saying that Dengtash was ready to accept any of the peace plans proposed including 2004 which TCs did accept?

What was it Dengtash said after 2004, "The GCs saved you" is what he said. Really did the GCs save us in 2004, that's not very enemy like is it, if they saved us!

[waddo]

Lurucinali, At last, three examples of "Future" compromise given to the naive martian! I did not ask for examples of compromise that you think may happen but I did ask: "Perhaps you would like to give us all an example of one meaningful compromise that the RoC has extended to the TRNC, in your memory?".

Maybe you would like to choose something like the Constitution of the RoC as a compromise? I can think of no one thing that was written in stone and then artfully chipped away to ensure that only the GC would have any say in the people and the running of the Island.

Just so you understand, the word Compromise - or as you wish - συμβιβασμός - meaning conciliation or reconciliation or settle for! It does not mean lie or as you wish - ψέμα - untruth, falsehood, fib, fabrication, deception, invention, fiction, piece of fiction, falsification, (little) white lie, half-truth, exaggeration - as translated from the Greek.

So come on, stop trying to be a politician and picking out things that only you feel should be said - stand up and be counted - look at the bigger picture, we are all aware of the past and how hard it has been for the Turkish Cypriots way back in time to right up to the present. What we - none of us - wish for is the same thing to happen to the KKTC again.

Political equality is a pipe dream - No GC would ever accept a decision made by a TC and you know that for a fact! - Perhaps just your wish?
Accept a bigger percentage for the TC state in size than the amount of land TCs own - Is this what the GC have offered or what you wish they would?
Not insist on percentage of land to be the same as percentage of coast - Again this sounds like your wish/hope/dream not a GC offer of "Compromise".?

So, again I must ask for examples of a compromise that the GC, RoC, South Cyprus have ever extended to the TRNC in your memory??????????

[DenizIsmail]

I totally agree with what Waddo is saying. I am looking at the 'bigger' picture. History tells me GC cannot be trusted?

[frontalman]

Good answers but I still await an example of a GC compromise!

1. Accept political equality
2. Accept a bigger percentage for the TC state in size than the amount of land TCs own
3. Not insist on percentage of land to be the same as percentage of coast

How about these three to begin with. As we begin to get information about the agreement, we shall have more info.

How are these compromises? These are ideas at the moment which may or may not be part of a plan that if put to a vote will be "OXI'ed" by the GC side, so don't hold your breath on that one.

[Lurucinali]

Lurucinali, At last, three examples of "Future" compromise given to the naive martian! I did not ask for examples of compromise that you think may happen but I did ask: "Perhaps you would like to give us all an example of one meaningful compromise that the RoC has extended to the TRNC, in your memory?".

Maybe you would like to choose something like the Constitution of the RoC as a compromise? I can think of no one thing that was written in stone and then artfully chipped away to ensure that only the GC would have any say in the people and the running of the Island.

Just so you understand, the word Compromise - or as you wish - συμβιβασμός - meaning conciliation or reconciliation or settle for! It does not mean lie or as you wish - ψέμα - untruth, falsehood, fib, fabrication, deception, invention, fiction, piece of fiction, falsification, (little) white lie, half-truth, exaggeration - as translated from the Greek.

So come on, stop trying to be a politician and picking out things that only you feel should be said - stand up and be counted - look at the bigger picture, we are all aware of the past and how hard it has been for the Turkish Cypriots way back in time to right up to the present. What we - none of us - wish for is the same thing to happen to the KKTC again.

Political equality is a pipe dream - No GC would ever accept a decision made by a TC and you know that for a fact! - Perhaps just your wish?
Accept a bigger percentage for the TC state in size than the amount of land TCs own - Is this what the GC have offered or what you wish they would?
Not insist on percentage of land to be the same as percentage of coast - Again this sounds like your wish/hope/dream not a GC offer of "Compromise".?

So, again I must ask for examples of a compromise that the GC, RoC, South Cyprus have ever extended to the TRNC in your memory??????????

Thats not what you asked for waddo, you just asked for example of compromises I assumed you meant in the current negotiations. If you want a compromise in the past how about this one.

18% of the population has equal political rights with 78% in the RoC constitution by having the veto in government. If that's not a compromise, what is?

However the first one I listed applies to the past and the future.

[Lurucinali]

I totally agree with what Waddo is saying. I am looking at the 'bigger' picture. History tells me GC cannot be trusted?

Then you need to study history better Deniz. History tells us we got on fine till the Brits the Turks and the Greeks as well as the Americans and the Russians decided to meddle in Cyprus hiring out a few thousand men on each side to do the bidding for them.

[Lurucinali]

Good answers but I still await an example of a GC compromise!

1. Accept political equality
2. Accept a bigger percentage for the TC state in size than the amount of land TCs own
3. Not insist on percentage of land to be the same as percentage of coast

How about these three to begin with. As we begin to get information about the agreement, we shall have more info.

How are these compromises? These are ideas at the moment which may or may not be part of a plan that if put to a vote will be "OXI'ed" by the GC side, so don't hold your breath on that one.

they are not just ideas, this is being negotiated and in a few weeks we shall be hearing of the agreement or at least that they are very close. There is a news blackout at the moment regarding the talks.

[Lurucinali]

Lurucinali, At last, three examples of "Future" compromise given to the naive martian! I did not ask for examples of compromise that you think may happen but I did ask: "Perhaps you would like to give us all an example of one meaningful compromise that the RoC has extended to the TRNC, in your memory?".

Maybe you would like to choose something like the Constitution of the RoC as a compromise? I can think of no one thing that was written in stone and then artfully chipped away to ensure that only the GC would have any say in the people and the running of the Island.

Just so you understand, the word Compromise - or as you wish - συμβιβασμός - meaning conciliation or reconciliation or settle for! It does not mean lie or as you wish - ψέμα - untruth, falsehood, fib, fabrication, deception, invention, fiction, piece of fiction, falsification, (little) white lie, half-truth, exaggeration - as translated from the Greek.

So come on, stop trying to be a politician and picking out things that only you feel should be said - stand up and be counted - look at the bigger picture, we are all aware of the past and how hard it has been for the Turkish Cypriots way back in time to right up to the present. What we - none of us - wish for is the same thing to happen to the KKTC again.

Political equality is a pipe dream - No GC would ever accept a decision made by a TC and you know that for a fact! - Perhaps just your wish?
Accept a bigger percentage for the TC state in size than the amount of land TCs own - Is this what the GC have offered or what you wish they would?
Not insist on percentage of land to be the same as percentage of coast - Again this sounds like your wish/hope/dream not a GC offer of "Compromise".?

So, again I must ask for examples of a compromise that the GC, RoC, South Cyprus have ever extended to the TRNC in your memory??????????

Just for you the meaning of compromise:
an agreement or settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions.
the expedient acceptance of standards that are lower than is desirable.

[waddo]

Having still not answered my first question - do read it again - do you really think that: "18% of the population has equal political rights with 78% in the RoC constitution by having the veto in government. If that's not a compromise, what is?" this is a compromise and if so please tell me when it was agreed and by whom?

However the first one I listed applies to the past and the future. Now please tell me what happened in the past to these three "compromises" that you listed, because if you are talking about the original constitution then there is the answer in itself.

In one of your many posts you stated - "There is a news blackout at the moment regarding the talks." - if this is a true statement then please explain how you obtain all the mythical information you post on this forum, have you reached a "compromise" with a mole in the Government?

[wondering1]

We used to have GC neighbours in North London. My late father bought the house in 1962. The GC neighbour was already living next door. My father use to say that they were not happy that a TC could buy a house just like them. However as long as my father would do what they wanted i.e where to park his car; certain errands for them they got on fine until the war in 1974. GC's will always as long as I remember would look down on us. They feel that they are superior to us. Simple things such as coffee, cheese, kebabs, deserts etc they seem to think it has all been invented by GC's. AS for Cyprus the Island has always been theirs

Deniz did your late father never parked his car in front of your house? Although it is customary for one park in front of ones house, it does not belong to you, it actually belongs to the King/Queen.

Did you not have GC friends at school? Just becaue your neighbour was a jealous sort, does that make all GCs like that? When I arrived in London I went to a school in Ealing. There was only two Cypriots there, me and a GC boy. Amazingly he also had two eyes, a nose and two ears. He was normal and did not look down on me. I can say I have met over hundred GCs in my life at college and uni as well as work and have never felt in anyway being looked down on.

In 1971 we organised a football match between the Lurucina Secondary School and Limbya Secondary school. Nobody got killed, honest. Could not believe it,

As far as Cyprus is concerned the description you are giving re GCs are what Elam supporters feel and of course Apoel supporters too. Funny enough though not all Apoel supporters vote for elam. Elam gets less than 5,000 votes in election.

Lol, you didn't quite get the answer you were hoping for, so you gave your own example which was the correct one.

Of course, because no one died at a child football match between GCs/TCs nothing could possibly go wrong trying to integrate the two populations after 50 years of separation since one side tried to genocide the other and there was a war between them. After all it was originally only a minority then because the kids could play football together peacefully, oh and they all have two ears a nose and two eyes, almost forgot that significant detail!

I think you should go to the Greek man who had a 200 man protest against him for buying TC potatoes and tell him your story, that should stop them from carrying out their threat of burning his business to the ground.

I'd advise to take security, because if their willing to hurt their fellow Greek for no reason they might not take kindly on getting guidance from a Turkish Cypriot.

Be sure to post the update on how it went, because none of us could possibly guess.

[Lurucinali]

Having still not answered my first question - do read it again - do you really think that: "18% of the population has equal political rights with 78% in the RoC constitution by having the veto in government. If that's not a compromise, what is?" this is a compromise and if so please tell me when it was agreed and by whom?

However the first one I listed applies to the past and the future. Now please tell me what happened in the past to these three "compromises" that you listed, because if you are talking about the original constitution then there is the answer in itself.

In one of your many posts you stated - "There is a news blackout at the moment regarding the talks." - if this is a true statement then please explain how you obtain all the mythical information you post on this forum, have you reached a "compromise" with a mole in the Government?

no no mole just info here and there. perhaps you can have a look at this website once every so often. From the horse's mouth as it were.

http://www.kktcb.org/content02.aspx?id= ... 05&select=

[Lurucinali]

We used to have GC neighbours in North London. My late father bought the house in 1962. The GC neighbour was already living next door. My father use to say that they were not happy that a TC could buy a house just like them. However as long as my father would do what they wanted i.e where to park his car; certain errands for them they got on fine until the war in 1974. GC's will always as long as I remember would look down on us. They feel that they are superior to us. Simple things such as coffee, cheese, kebabs, deserts etc they seem to think it has all been invented by GC's. AS for Cyprus the Island has always been theirs

Deniz did your late father never parked his car in front of your house? Although it is customary for one park in front of ones house, it does not belong to you, it actually belongs to the King/Queen.

Did you not have GC friends at school? Just becaue your neighbour was a jealous sort, does that make all GCs like that? When I arrived in London I went to a school in Ealing. There was only two Cypriots there, me and a GC boy. Amazingly he also had two eyes, a nose and two ears. He was normal and did not look down on me. I can say I have met over hundred GCs in my life at college and uni as well as work and have never felt in anyway being looked down on.

In 1971 we organised a football match between the Lurucina Secondary School and Limbya Secondary school. Nobody got killed, honest. Could not believe it,

As far as Cyprus is concerned the description you are giving re GCs are what Elam supporters feel and of course Apoel supporters too. Funny enough though not all Apoel supporters vote for elam. Elam gets less than 5,000 votes in election.

Lol, you didn't quite get the answer you were hoping for, so you gave your own example which was the correct one.

Of course, because no one died at a child football match between GCs/TCs nothing could possibly go wrong trying to integrate the two populations after 50 years of separation since one side tried to genocide the other and there was a war between them. After all it was originally only a minority then because the kids could play football together peacefully, oh and they all have two ears a nose and two eyes, almost forgot that significant detail!

I think you should go to the Greek man who had a 200 man protest against him for buying TC potatoes and tell him your story, that should stop them from carrying out their threat of burning his business to the ground.

I'd advise to take security, because if their willing to hurt their fellow Greek for no reason they might not take kindly on getting guidance from a Turkish Cypriot.

Be sure to post the update on how it went, because none of us could possibly guess.

this is where all logic is lost.

there has been millions of crossings over since 2002 when the crossing have opened up and some crime has been committed by GCs on the TCs. I am keeping count, at the last count was 7. This potato attack was not against TC so it does not count even if we counted this one that's 8. In the mean time how many thousands of attack have occurred on the people in the north by people other than GC nationals in the same time period? Any ideas? The problem arises because you are looking at individual cases and generalising it to attack the talks.

[wondering1]

"This is where all logic is lost"

Now, that is quite funny/ironic because my post was quite clearly an extension of your own logic, which "inadvertently" showed its limits in reality.

[frontalman]

Lurucinalli, why are you spending so much time trying to persuade people who don't have a vote that you are right. Surely you would be better off on a Turkish language forum trying to influence your fellow countrymen and women - or have they shown you the door too?

[silverfir]

Think it's time we also showed him/her the door!

[Lurucinali]

"This is where all logic is lost"

Now, that is quite funny/ironic because my post was quite clearly an extension of your own logic, which "inadvertently" showed its limits in reality.

Then clearly your extension was wrong.

[waddo]

Don't worry folks - it will all be made clear on the 14th of this month - then the answers will be know and the bun fights will start. I can say no more at this point - loose lips and all that.......

[frontalman]

Well, we've had the announcement/statement at the end of the intensive talks stage. Basically the sides are a chasm apart on the things that matter. I just read a survey from the South saying a poll shows that over 50% of GCs will vote NO in a referendum whatever is on offer - is Lurucinalli still as confident that a settlement is just around the corner?

[waz-24-7]

I Think a settlement remains very unlikely.
Certainly the current guarantor status of Turkey and the Uk will not be forfeited given the clear interests that parties have on the Island.
History has shown that the strategic importance of the Island has led to numerous and often changes in administration and rule.
The current status remains stable and certainly continues to develop at a pace as the various parties with interest continue to negotiate.
A settlement remains a distant and unlikely outcome but I see a softening of attitudes between NORTH and SOUTH. A Bi communal existence and tolerance is developing but the TRNC remains isolated and hindered. It still however benefits immensely from Turkish benefit payments and also indigenous TC s enjoy European status and advantage with their ROC passports.
Who indeed wants a settlement?

[bigOz]

Long time I have not posted here, but it seems there is no end to posts with the owners spilling their poison to serve their own individual best interest and using scaremongering to avoid a Turkish Federal State at all costs. This is dedicated to all those fools with no idea of what is exactly going on or who cannot be bothered to read anything else except the forums;

1. What guarantees you are talking about? A guarantee against what? The Greek PM has already stated that part of the solution will be to dissolve the Cypriot (Greek) National guard and have a strong police force instead on both sides. No army to attack the other side across the border! Guarantee against what? Turkey is a stone throw from Cyprus - if they want to step in they do not need it on paper. In the very unlikely event that we are attacked, they can unload 50000 troops with tanks and heavy artillery on the North coast in couple of hours with no resistance! Does anyone realise the amount of land occupied by the army in North Cyprus???

2. It was the guarantor powers who started the war and did the killing in 1974! Remember anyone? Turkey being a guarantor will open the door for Greece being one also! GC's do not want either - neither do I and at least 60+ % of the TC's in Cyprus who voted for Mr Akıncı for a solution is to be reached.

3. We also had GC neighbors in UK - made us feel at home and not too far from our country. We walked in and out of each others house just like we would do in Cyprus. I am afraid that was a bad argument to start with Deniz because everyone knows how well the GC's and the TC's get on in UK.

4. While more mainland Turkish tourists have been visiting the neighboring Greek islands than Cyprus over the last couple of years, what is their problem with the Turkish Cypriots wanting their independent recognised Federal State with their own administration.

5. Does anyone bother to read the discussions and agreements that have been disclosed by the Prime Ministers office on daily basis? I suggest you like their page and get automatic reports on everything that has been going on DAILY. Mr Akıncı has been as transparent as the clear waters of Bafra! Leaving no room for criticism by the peace opposing parties - who make funny noises based on hearsay and assumptions. THEY ARE IN A STATE of PANIC because all their dirty linen will be out once a deal is reached (the bribes and illegal land grabbing to this day).

I do not care for what reason some of the foreign nationals chose to live in Cyprus but my main concern is to find a solution to this problem that has been suffocating our island's people for more than half a century. Anyone who does not like can move on to new pastures, just like many TC's who have had no choice but to start leaving the island once again to UK, USA, Australia, Canada etc over the past 4-5 years. We want Cyprus to be able to accommodate Cypriots first, and guests are more than welcome afterwards.

Here is the link for those who really wish to follow what is going on with Cyprus talks on daily basis. If you like the page you will be sent info about the developments automatically every day. Perhaps then we ca then have a more sensible discussion or criticisms.

http://www.kktcb.org/content02.aspx?id= ... 527&select

Some of you - especially those who can speak English may also find today's news below interesting and educating!

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/rumlara-mesa ... r-40226229

http://www.yeniduzen.com/Haberler/haber ... irme/69451

http://www.gazete360.com/Haberler/gunde ... medi/55117

By the way - I am sure our English speaking members will find the subject of the last ling very interesting! Any offers for translation?

[frontalman]

Sorry bigOz I can't get any of the articles you've pasted to translate into English, even the one with an option. You, as a Turkish Cypriot will obviously get a better quality of information regarding the talks than expats do. I really wish I was able to read everything that is published. None of us like living with uncertainty, we all want the right solution, and I appreciate that 60% of TCs voted in Mr Akinci. However it was he who stated that Turkish guarantees are a red line as is a rotating presidency. You imply that we may be against a solution, not so in my case, we have been here 12 years and I have followed closely developments in the Cyprus problem. The reason I am skeptical has far more to do with the antics and aims of the Greek side, than the generally sincere efforts of the Turkish Cypriot side. I don't believe that your feelings of frustration give you the right to address fellow posters as fools, I hope you were more tolerant and understanding with your former pupils who may have been a bit slow.

[bigOz]

Sorry bigOz I can't get any of the articles you've pasted to translate into English, even the one with an option. You, as a Turkish Cypriot will obviously get a better quality of information regarding the talks than expats do. I really wish I was able to read everything that is published. None of us like living with uncertainty, we all want the right solution, and I appreciate that 60% of TCs voted in Mr Akinci. However it was he who stated that Turkish guarantees are a red line as is a rotating presidency. You imply that we may be against a solution, not so in my case, we have been here 12 years and I have followed closely developments in the Cyprus problem. The reason I am skeptical has far more to do with the antics and aims of the Greek side, than the generally sincere efforts of the Turkish Cypriot side. I don't believe that your feelings of frustration give you the right to address fellow posters as fools, I hope you were more tolerant and understanding with your former pupils who may have been a bit slow.

My apologies if you got offended "frontalman" - The comment was not for everyone but for some foolish statements that I could not help notice. I must have got carried away a bit as well, because I had lived through as a young child and I was a refugee back in 1963 and the same goes for 1974. So I do get a little wound up by many in any forum who believe they are an authority on Cyprus history + problem, just because they were in Cyprus at one time or decided to come over for retirement. They are most welcome to retire in our island and be a part of our society and I believe there is no lack of respect for the English, Scottish or Irish people residing here (and the Russians as well now).

What really upsets me is having to fight Greek Nationalists (the ELAM pigs) in Greek forums with other GCs supporting me, and having to do the same with the Turkish (mostly from mainland) ultra nationalists on our side, I now have to be content with Foreign residents of our country making some very silly statements. Not only does it show a total lack of history and knowledge about the current events on the island but it really adds insult to injury because none of them realise what it means to be nationless an unrecognised entity in this World! Some are actually professing that we should carry on like this forever just because "blah, blah" bloody more "blah"!

GC's are not our enemy at this time! GC's lived in peace with the TCs until the beginning of 1950s for many hundreds of years that included inter racial marriages and a joint revolt against the high taxes demanded by the Ottomans. The three guarantor powers are the major players planting the seeds of hatred and rivalry between GCs and TCs for couple of decades as from early fifties. The education system and bad politicians on both sides who were really puppets of their motherlands, built up popularity using this hatred until an opportunity arose in 1974 for the island to suffer its bloodiest war!

I was 10 years old in 1964. I was as nationalist as any other TC carrying sand bags onto the roof of what we called the "white apartment" just behind Selimiye Mosque, with dum dum bullets exploding all around. That was after the arrest of my father in Girne by the EOKA men which is a story in itself. My father was a very respected police commander, who had been a proper police officer (not an auxilliary police) from British Colonial times. He was actually sent to London for police training and came back serving as as a ranking officer. He was a Dr Küçük supporter - the true revolutionary leader of TCs - a people's man very much loved by all and whose newspaper suffered a lot in British hands.

We had a great time between 1960 and 1963 during the brief Republic days. But as admitted by reputable people in the Turkish mainland who worked in the military inteligence, both Turkey and Greece were organising attacks on civil establishments and blaming the other side for doing it. I remember the elderly always saying to us "do not buy anything from a Greek shop! They will buy guns and kill you" and the same was told to the Greek children. From a young age we were groomed to be enemies. Yes EOKA-B and an ex-Greece general Grivas as their leader wanted the island to be a Greek island, but the GC peasants or white collar workers did not care less or too worried about the TCs. Life in the villages went on peaceful with trading and economy striving. EOKA-B used the excuse that many Turkish auxillary police recruited by the British to fight the original EOKA members and had killed many Greeks by taking sides with the British. This was a historic fact and addressed by many as another British "Divide and Rule" policy at the time.

When war broke out during December 1963, my father was the Commander in Commander in Chief of the Republic police in Kyrenia (Greek and Turkish mixed). While fighting broke out by EOKA attacks on Turkish Cypriots all over the island, most of the GC's kept away from the fighting in their homes or villages. The mainland Greek military who were number one enemies with Turkey at the time, also supported the EOKA-B with their men and gun power. Turkey did nothing! Small defenseless villages were ran over by the EOKA killing all women, children and the old. Scared Turks emptied more than 100 villages and moved into enclaves in big towns, barricading themselves in. But many villages risked it and stayed where they were carried on with their daily life, most of them untouched by the neighbouring GC villages until 1974.

In 1964 Girne and everywhere else near Girne along the coast North of the mountain stayed peaceful with not a single shot fired or anyone killed! Because Commander Ali Esat made sure all police jeeps in his possession at the time were manned by 2 Greek and 2 Turkish policemen, patrolling the streets of Girne and the surrounding villages 24/7. He also made sure the canvasses were open for the people to see the back of the jeeps where Turkish and Greek policemen sat together peacefully. IT WORKED! End of January 1964 the Mayor called my dad and some other notable persons from both TCs and GCs to thank him for being so successful in keeping the peace. 15 minutes into the meeting EOKA men smashed the door and entered the meeting room with machine guns, ordering the Turks to move to the back of the table and identify themselves. There were 5 of them including my father who were taken prisoner and taken up to the monastery to be locked up. We moved to the Turkish quarter with my mother and two younger brothers and stayed at our cousin's house (Owner of Dragon Chinese Restaurant, Cemal's mother's place and his aunties house in the street next to the mosque). It was couple of weeks after, when EOKA was attacking another village, Turkish jets flew over Cyprus and couple dived over Kyrenia. The sonic boom during the dives made it sound like bombs were dropped. EOKA men panicked and ran to the trenches, leaving my father and his friends guarded by the GC police. Well that was not very clever either, because the Greek police who alsı respected and loved my father, opened the doors and set their commander free together with his friends. I remember my dad, bless his soul, arrived bearded and we hardly recognised him and the driver was the GC who was his official driver at the force. I will never forget that guy embracing my dad and saying in Turkish "Eoka yok, çabuk gaç gumandanım. Lefkoşa git git." After arranging a taxi for us to go to the house and pick up whatever we can carry and travel to LLefkoşa as well, he took his car and drove over to cross to Turkish side which started at the road barricades exactly at the same place as the junction turning off to the St Hilarion castle. The narrow strip leading down along the old Lefkoşa road was under our control starting from St Hilarion Castle all the way to Gönyeli ending at the largest enclave in Lefkoşa.

A lot more had happened between then and 1968 but I will have to write the rest if there is a public demand Now going forward to what happened in 1974 was a different story where we as TCs had suffered in the hands of EOKA-B with more atrocities and hundreds of dead, but the real losers were the non-EOKA supporting innocent socialist GCs who died in their thousands. Initially clobbered by the EOKA , giving them the same treatment as they gave the Turkish villagers and later getting clobbered by the Turkish army, when they landed on the shores of Girne. Because the Greek army supporting EOKA ran away with them, leaving the GC's at the trenches to fight against the Turkish army. It is a known fact that many GC's who initially refused to join the fight against TCs were shot dead by the EOKA - including a good friend of ours Dimitri who was an architect. Some others were not allowed to escape by being chained to their machine guns by their superiors. I have European newspaper copies of evidence given by Greek priests talking about witnessing truckloads of dead Greeks being thrown in mass graves in Paphos. Limassol was were most of the Greek AKEL supporters were killed by EOKA. There were seens of dead hanging from trees. My father was a commander in Limassol by !974. He was again taken prisoner and again helped by couple of GCs escape from the camp to British Dhikelia bases, then to Turkish art of Lefkoşa in a UN truck. Many TCs were helped to escape from Limassol and Larnaca to the bases by the GCs at the time.

I need to do my daily chores, but I will have to explain another time why the 1974 really broke out. Why Turkish army was never part of the plan and the union of the island with Greece at the time would have served Europe best - and if Turkey invaded it really did not matter because it was another NATO country anyway. Only then you will understand why there would never be a war between GCs and TCs again, if only the new republic would not be under the influence of Greece or Turkey. As for UK, I am sure it has been stated not so long ago that Britain has no interest or intentions to be a guarantor power in the new Federal Republic. In any case, both sides within their own administration, strong police force and own borders, should easily be able to defend themselves in case of an extremely unlikely attack coming from the other side. Current ELAM neo-Nazis will surely melt away with the new republic formed, together with any ultra nationalists on our side (I hope) I say again TCs and GCs are not a danger to each other! Guarantor powers have always been the source of conflict and fighting on this island! EOKA could not finish us off during the 11 years of existence in enclaves, with nothing more than old rifles, shotguns and Stenguns to defend ourselves with. There was no Turkish mainland military to man our posts along our borders. The young were going to high school during the day and staying up to 4 hours a night as border guards. What makes anyone think we can be run over by GCs overnight. But that does not even come into the equation for me. Because I believe and know that the shugar-stirrers on both sides are only a handful compared to the population of the island.

[bigOz]

Frontalman, I believe you can find a lot of good information in English, about the presidents activities, in this site;

http://www.lgcnews.com/

[frontalman]

Thanks for that, I really appreciate the effort you have put in to your response. I think it's time you wrote your book! I have been banned from the Cyprus Mail forum for taking on the GC extremists, so I know what you are talking about. A good friend of mine, Salih, who has the burger bar close to Metehan, tells a similar story of his family being helped to escape by GC neighbours. It is a very difficult and complicated situation and I hope things do work out as you hope they will. I think we both have to admit that the odds are against it, though.