Email Just received from MM

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 2:55 pm

We will be increasing the prices of our services as of the 1st of January 2017 by 20%. This is a result of both the need to
keep investing in our distribution network within the TRNC and the significant fall in the value of the Turkish Lira vs US
Dollar and Euro currencies. If you wish to renew your service before the new prices come into effect as of the 01st January
2017 your are more than welcome to do so.

20%......big heavy init.

mrsgee · Post by **mrsgee** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 3:09 pm

Hmmmm, yes, I just got that too, and thought 20% increase.....that's quite a hike....but, fair enough I suppose, but would hope to see, if the Lira increases in value.....a corresponding reduction at some point........

WotNoDeeds · Post by **WotNoDeeds** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 3:30 pm

Is this a wind up ! that is a massive increase they won't have many customers left if the price carry on like this. Who's running this company Dick Turpin ? we better see some improvements with these prices .

dekski1 · Post by **dekski1** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 3:38 pm

Just go the same email ... obviously! 20% is extortionate for one increase! What's the alternative?

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 3:48 pm

Recommendations for alternative ISP's ?

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 4:03 pm

Didn't take long before this post was kicked into the dust did it !

Smiler · Post by **Smiler** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 4:07 pm

I just got the email too. I wonder if my bosses will be giving me a 20% pay rise from January so that I can afford the huge increase, oh and to pay my rent which is in sterling?! I seriously doubt it!

sophie · Post by **sophie** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 4:13 pm

Going up 20% from 1st January. Just popped in to my in box

kbasat · Post by **kbasat** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 4:25 pm

Its more of an adjustment then increase. Our costs are heaviliy dependent on USD and EUR and this increase is necessary to keep us afloat.

dap2410 · Post by **dap2410** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 4:39 pm

I'm sure it was a mistake, a 20% increase after all the failing internet service for the past several months. It should be a 20% discount for all its long suffering customers that didn't talk with its feet, and stayed with MM.

kbasat · Post by **kbasat** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 5:17 pm

dap2410 wrote:I'm sure it was a mistake, a 20% increase after all the failing internet service for the past several months. It should be a 20% discount for all its long suffering customers that didn't talk with its feet, and stayed with MM.

Some things we can control, some things we cannot. You think we are happy that after all the investment we put in to the MM network to be better and better, we suffer together with you due to problems that is not within out control?

This price increase is a matter of survival from yet another set of uncontrollable circumstances with exchange rates.

You have every right to complain, complain to Turk Telekom for providing shitty service to Cyprus (we dont have any other choice here), complain to the government about the exchange rates, but if you ignore all that and complain to MM only, and criticize MM only about the whole geopolitical problems of Cyprus, I think that would be a bit unfair...

K.

Edremit Eggs · Post by **Edremit Eggs** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 5:25 pm

Munchkin wrote:Recommendations for alternative ISP's ?

NETHOUSE

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 5:45 pm

dap2410 wrote:I'm sure it was a mistake, a 20% increase after all the failing internet service for the past several months. It should be a 20% discount for all its long suffering customers that didn't talk with its feet, and stayed with MM.

"Failing Internet Service"???

What on earth are you talking about man?

I monitor the quality of my internet service (upload and download speeds, latency, etc.), and in the last few months, apart from the few instances where we have all received texts from MM advising of a problem, or where there has been a power cut, the service has been spot on. After a power cut, either at your home or at one of the MM relay stations, the first thing to do of course is to 'Power Cycle' all of the equipment, so that it can reset itself, and log on to the correct base station. If you don't do that, then you are likely to stay logged on to an incorrect base station (because it was the only one that your dish could find that was operating at the time!) and you will suffer from 'slow speeds' ad infinitum This is one of the unfortunate consequences of having to rely on 'Wireless Internet' in TRNC - the population density makes it impractical to consider fibre-optic 'cable' connections to individual premises, and the copper wire telephone network is ageing and less than totally reliable...

Earlier this year I had two instances of 'Slow Internet' - and duly reported them, the first turned out to be the downlead from the MM dish, into the house, this was replaced, and everything was fine. A few weeks later, I had 'The Same Problem' - this turned out to be due to the fact that someone had gone and built a house between myself and the Merit Hotel base station! As soon as I reported the issue, a technician attended, realised what was the cause, and redirected my dish to another base station in Alsancak Village. Problem solved!

If you have been suffering from poor speed, you need to do a little basic research yourself, so that you understand the range of issues, and you also need to report EACH and EVERY instance of poor internet to your ISP - regardless of whether it is MM or anyone else! - And then make sure that they put it right! Complain if they don't! Come on here and give 'chapter and verse' of the saga if you like! But please don't make vague, imprecise, incorrect statements like "Failing Internet Service" !

I don't know how many requests for service the MM helpline receives every day, but based on my experience in customer service, I would be surprised if is less than 10, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was more than 20. There are so many factors that can affect your individual experience - quite apart from the quality of service provided by your ISP - that to assume that 'your poor internet speed' is due to 'a general failure on the part of your ISP' is absolute folly! On any particular day there are going to be people suffering from problems caused by their own equipment (either faults or incorrect use / installation of that equipment) or to interference emanating from their own homes or neighbouring premises, and a myriad of other potential causes... - and that's without considering the possibility that the 'Source' of your TV programme - such as the BBC - might itself be 'overloaded' and unable to cope with the demand - I have experienced this first-hand in the UK, so don't think that it doesn't happen!

That most people are fairly ignorant of the workings of their computer / internet connection is not surprising.

That most people then blame any issues that they experience on the provider of said internet service is almost inevitable.

But, let me ask you this: -

Do you drive?

Did you receive a course of instruction which explained the basics of the vehicle's operation, and the correct manner to operate said vehicle, before you were set loose with it ?

Yes?

Well, how many of you can say that you received the same standard of instruction in the set-up, installation, operation and use of your computer / internet equipment?

Yet you feel qualified to blame every 'glitch' on your ISP !

Change your ISP by all means, please!

It will at the very least save us from your complaints when you realise that it isn't necessarily them at fault...

Maisiemoo · Post by **Maisiemoo** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 5:53 pm

I've just had an email to say that MM are increasing their prices by 20% from 1st January, citing the fall in the Turkish lira and the need ,to invest in the distribution network. I may start to look elsewhere for my broadband now and would welcome any genuine recommendations.

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 6:05 pm

Look at the thread below Maisiemoo this topic was on the main page but as very quickly kicked off on to internet page .

http://www.kibkomnorthcyprusforum.com/v ... 46&t=35429

kbasat · Post by **kbasat** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 6:06 pm

All ISPs will increase their prices by 20% by Jan, it was a joint decision. We all need to survive.

Btw, its not Multimedia, its Multimax.

kbasat · Post by **kbasat** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 6:08 pm

Munchkin wrote:Look at the thread below Maisiemoo this topic was on the main page but as very quickly kicked off on to internet page .

http://www.kibkomnorthcyprusforum.com/v ... 46&t=35429

What difference does it make? Cant you just click 'view active topics' on above and left? Its the best way to stay updated with the forum in my opinion...

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 6:09 pm

"joint decision" more like price fixing !

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 6:21 pm

Munchin, you do have an option/choice!

Gozoa · Post by **Gozoa** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 6:28 pm

kbasat wrote:All ISPs will increase their prices by 20% by Jan, it was a joint decision. We all need to survive.

Btw, its not Multimedia, its Multimax.

If it is true what you have said then as you have just indicated above it has been pre-agreed between you all to raise the price at the same time by the same amount - that is the definition of price fixing and is illegal in most Countries.

If one company wants to raise their price then that is their decision. Another company can close offices and run more aspects from the internet to keep over-heads down. Another company can raise the price by 5% and relocate offices or offer different options of service at different prices. The is the very nature of a successful and competitive market and it is that each company can determine their own way to streamline their business, improve their service, remove over-heads and to give an edge over the next company in a way that they must each individually determine.

To simply meet and agree amongst each other to do something like a 20% price hike removes all aspects of a competitive market and keeps the price stagnant, prevents the business from improving, prevents the service from improving and make each company as poor as the next because without competition there is no drive to improve. It is this drive which is a significant basis of a successful economy.

I don't know what the law here says about this but for example in the United Kingdom you would be reported to the Police if this went ahead because it is illegal business activity and your business can be fined up to 10% of its worldwide turnover and sued for damages for the offence of price fixing.

Hopefully one of the ISPs has some integrity and does not agree to this kind of activity because I can guarantee the other suppliers would lose half their business over night to that company.

Hint to any ISP owner reading this......

EDIT:-

Definition of Price fixing:-

"Price fixing is an agreement between participants on the same side in a market to buy or sell a product, service, or commodity only at a fixed price, or maintain the market conditions such that the price is maintained at a given level by controlling supply and demand."

https://www.gov.uk/cartels-price-fixing/overview

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 6:41 pm

Why are you recanting UK/Euro law as applicable to the TRNC? OPEC have a monopoly on oil pricing, yet it is unchallenged - world wide. Unhappy, leave!

Gozoa · Post by **Gozoa** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 6:59 pm

A significant proportion of the ISP's customers are from the UK and so will perceive such a move as completely immoral. The basis of that perception is explained in my post.

As a side point if you are unaware of the connection between TRNC law and British law - this place operates on a common law which is from the United Kingdom. So most of the laws here are technically from the UK and so quoting UK law is actually quite relevant in general, Tom.

If I don't like it leave? Rude, what if I am from here genius?

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 7:22 pm

If a business has to increase its prices by 20% in one hit is either in dire financial difficulty........or very very greedy.

kiplet · Post by **kiplet** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 7:48 pm

Although we have experienced nothing but excellent service from Multimax.
Been with then now for years now and only needed to couple a couple if times owing to technical problems both times sorted quickly with no furthur problems.

However the price rise is quite surprising.
I will look around and see if I can get a matched service which I know will be hard to follow.
I don't mind some increase but without looking at the ins/outs I find the increase a bit to much.
Shame really as I do rate Multimax 100%.

kbasat · Post by **kbasat** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 8:01 pm

Munchkin wrote:"joint decision" more like price fixing !

Price fixing is when all companies sell the same product at the same price.

We did no such thing, Internet Service Providers Association sit down and evaluate the future of Internet in Cyprus. We have had several meetings and discussed our options and decided that we all need to adjust our prices if we wanted to survive in 2017.

kbasat · Post by **kbasat** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 8:12 pm

Gozoa wrote: Hopefully one of the ISPs has some integrity and does not agree to this kind of activity because I can guarantee the other suppliers would lose half their business over night to that company.

Hint to any ISP owner reading this......

Internet Service Providers do not have more than 20% profit margin on their service.

You should realize that this is not an adjustment that arouse from thin air. We were simply forced to readjust our prices due to increasing USD and EUR rates.

If an ISP company does not follow this price increase, it means that they are losing money, getting trillion new customers means they will be losing trillion times more money, how can that be a good thing?

We could obviously adjust ourselves accordingly, we could lay off employees, we could limit on-site customer service, we could lower speeds on our packages, etc etc, instead of a price increase.

Internet Service Providers association has met and discussed all these options, realizing something has to be done. We have also realized that our internet service provision quality already suffers from reasons outside of our control (like poor quality of service from Turk Telekom, power cuts, cyber attacks etc), so the decision it was in everybodys interest that we do not make further sacrificies from the level of service our customers receive in order to compensate for exchange rate fluctuations. Thus the decision that everybody increases price instead of any other option.

We believe that customers have every right to complain, but not to us, as we are not responsible for the geopolitical problems associated with this country.

K.

Maisiemoo · Post by **Maisiemoo** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 8:22 pm

Sorry I didn't check before submitting message, predictive text has a lot to answer for!

kbasat · Post by **kbasat** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 8:22 pm

turtle wrote:If a business has to increase its prices by 20% in one hit is either in dire financial difficulty........or very very greedy.

Or maybe its because majority of the company's expenses are in USD or Euros and the exchange rate has just hiked 20% in the last 2 months?

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 8:26 pm

kbasat....
You announced on this site some time ago that you no longer work for MM however your posts sounds like you are still running this business ?

I am a little confused could you please clarify your position please.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 8:31 pm

I take it you will be reducing your prices as soon as currency returns to normality ? ....

Bert · Post by **Bert** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 8:34 pm

Great service and I for one think it's in the whole a great service . Keep up the good work. I have extended mine for a year so now worries about an increase til 2018 .

kbasat · Post by **kbasat** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 8:46 pm

turtle wrote:kbasat....
You announced on this site some time ago that you no longer work for MM however your posts sounds like you are still running this business ?

I am a little confused could you please clarify your position please.

I do not work for MM actively, but I am still the president of Internet Service Providers Association (until January 2017). so I had to take time off of retirement for the purposes of these meetings and this decision of price adjustment.

Hope this clarifies it enough.

Kemal

kbasat · Post by **kbasat** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 8:53 pm

turtle wrote:I take it you will be reducing your prices as soon as currency returns to normality ? ....

I dont see why not. however, this has never happened in MM history. the USD rate when MM was set up 5 years ago was 1.5TL to a dollar, now its 3.5TL.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Tue 13 Dec 2016 9:05 pm

kbasat wrote:
turtle wrote:kbasat....
You announced on this site some time ago that you no longer work for MM however your posts sounds like you are still running this business ?

I am a little confused could you please clarify your position please.
I do not work for MM actively, but I am still the president of Internet Service Providers Association (until January 2017). so I had to take time off of retirement for the purposes of these meetings and this decision of price adjustment.

Hope this clarifies it enough.

Kemal

Crystal clear
Thank you Kemal

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Wed 14 Dec 2016 7:27 am

turtle wrote:I take it you will be reducing your prices as soon as currency returns to normality ? ....

Dream on turtle Dream on.

I personally think kbasat's attitude towards customers concerns is very very damaging for Multimax .

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Wed 14 Dec 2016 7:49 am

G, I did not intend to be rude. When I said leave, I meant from the company concerned, not your country of residence. If I experience bad or expensive service, I do not offer the company any opportunity to fleece me again. My apology if you misunderstood my message.

dap2410 · Post by **dap2410** » Wed 14 Dec 2016 8:08 am

Keithcaley wrote:
dap2410 wrote:I'm sure it was a mistake, a 20% increase after all the failing internet service for the past several months. It should be a 20% discount for all its long suffering customers that didn't talk with its feet, and stayed with MM.
"Failing Internet Service"???

What on earth are you talking about man?

I monitor the quality of my internet service (upload and download speeds, latency, etc.), and in the last few months, telephone network is ageing and less than totally reliable... Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

Yet you feel qualified to blame every 'glitch' on your ISP !

Change your ISP by all means, please!

It will at the very least save us from your complaints when you realise that it isn't necessarily them at fault...

"Keithcaley" As you will see I haven't included all of your response to my post, just wanted to respond to your final remarks.
I did all of tests you suggest we try, and more. I did phone, email and message MM regarding my issue. And there were several visits by MM engineers to look into my connection problem. Finally MM informed me that the fault wasn't with MM but with my equipment.
So without changing any of my equipment I changed my ISP; and yes the problem went away!!
And yes the connection is not always perfect, I don't expect that but it's now very much better.

Edremit Eggs · Post by **Edremit Eggs** » Wed 14 Dec 2016 8:30 am

dap2410....

Read his post's...... He's there spokesperson on this Forum...

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Wed 14 Dec 2016 8:54 am

dap2410, thank you for providing a little more detail, although it does fall short of 'chapter and verse' in that you only make reference to 'my equipment' without specifying which particular equipment.

I am interested to know which piece of equipment they blamed?

Was it the router? - If so, they could have demonstrated this to you by connecting the incoming lead from the MM dish direct to your computer or 'T.V. box' (you don't actually need a router in the installation to make it work) - or was it your computer/T.V box that they said was at fault? If so, did they use their own laptop to demonstrate the point to you?

I would reiterate that the Internet service has been satisfactory as previously stated, and the problems that you have experienced are obviously due to a 'local' issue with your own installation (whether it was due to MM's equipment or the way that they had it set up, or, as they alleged, due to your equipment, I cannot say without further information).

It appears - from your account - that you have suffered from poor Customer Service if they have failed to positively identify and PROVE to you that the issue was with your equipment and not with theirs.

Of course I don't know what changes your new ISP made, which could have had an influence on the situation, and I probably never will do!

I'm glad that you now at least have workable internet.

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Wed 14 Dec 2016 8:59 am

Edremit Eggs wrote:dap2410....

Read his post's...... He's there (sic) spokesperson on this Forum...

No, I'm not.

I am not employed by them in any capacity, I am not related to them, or a personal friend of theirs.

I have no connection with MM except as a satisfied customer.

I simply challenge generalised assertions which are blatantly untrue.

Repeating a lie - as you have done - does not make it any less of a lie!

If you persist in repeating your statement, you will still be a liar

Edremit Eggs · Post by **Edremit Eggs** » Wed 14 Dec 2016 9:03 am

I'm very pleased to be involved in your 3000th post Keith ....... congratulations !!!!

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Wed 14 Dec 2016 9:06 am

Edremit Eggs wrote:I'm very pleased to be involved in your 3000th post Keith ....... congratulations !!!!

Thank you very much!

...note to self: "Must get out more!"

muffin1 · Post by **muffin1** » Wed 14 Dec 2016 9:21 am

Just received an e.mail from Multimax advising a 20% increase in all their charges as from 1st January 2017. This is HIGHWAYROBBERY. How can they possibly justify this enormous hike in prices?

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Wed 14 Dec 2016 9:51 am

Used Extend for the last 2 years pay for 4 mb watch live tv, stream movies etc. Ocasional buffering, no text or emails warnings though, came and fixed a broken psu after a power cut next day.

Navek · Post by **Navek** » Wed 14 Dec 2016 10:09 am

Hi muffin1,
Your not the only one.
More...
http://www.kibkomnorthcyprusforum.com/v ... 46&t=35429
Navek

helendj · Post by **helendj** » Wed 14 Dec 2016 10:23 am

Hi Muffin 1,

Totally agree with you, 100% - Are they going to guarantee we have internet 365 days a year???? They should be giving us a rebate, not expecting us to pay more for a less than acceptable service - in fact when we go to renew we should get extra months free to compensate - grrrrr, sorry have to have a rant about some things!

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Wed 14 Dec 2016 11:07 am

muffin1 wrote:Just received an e.mail from Multimax advising a 20% increase in all their charges as from 1st January 2017. This is HIGHWAYROBBERY. How can they possibly justify this enormous hike in prices?

I thought that they already had...

kbasat wrote:... the majority of the company's expenses are in USD or Euros and the exchange rate has just hiked 20% in the last 2 months.... the USD rate when MM was set up 5 years ago was 1.5TL to a dollar, now it's 3.5TL...

Not that I'm joining the discussion on price rises though - although I have just renewed my contract 2 months early to take advantage of the price freeze!

It seems to be part and parcel of living in an 'unrecognised Country' with an unstable currency - it's a good job that the Lira is in a worse state than the Pound

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Wed 14 Dec 2016 11:45 am

Keithcaley wrote:
muffin1 wrote:Just received an e.mail from Multimax advising a 20% increase in all their charges as from 1st January 2017. This is HIGHWAYROBBERY. How can they possibly justify this enormous hike in prices?
I thought that they already had...

kbasat wrote:... the majority of the company's expenses are in USD or Euros and the exchange rate has just hiked 20% in the last 2 months.... the USD rate when MM was set up 5 years ago was 1.5TL to a dollar, now it's 3.5TL...
Not that I'm joining the discussion on price rises though - although I have just renewed my contract 2 months early to take advantage of the price freeze!

It seems to be part and parcel of living in an 'unrecognised Country' with an unstable currency - it's a good job that the Lira is in a worse state than the Pound

As we are not on island permanently, we pay an annual fee for router etc and then pay per day for the number of days we are out. Our annual contract ends Sept 2017, however MM have said that if we renew before 1 Jan 2017 we can have a further year from Sept 2017 to Sept 2018 at the current price. They also said that if we wanted and knew the days we would be on island we could also pay for these at the old rate. To me that is a very fair deal.

Whilst the price rise is not what I would want, I appreciate and understand why. Each of us has our own experiences with MM, mine in the main have been good. However as a customer you do have the option to
Vote with your feet and change provider.

Whether the service would be better I think is another question.

dap2410 · Post by **dap2410** » Wed 14 Dec 2016 12:24 pm

Earlier this year I concelled both my IPTV (NTV) & ISP (MM) which I had had for 4 years or more, and took out new subscribtions with their competitors. Can't mention who, I might get blocked or worse lectured by a certain Kibtek member who insists he isn't in the employ of MM/NTV (I think you all know who I mean).
I'm more than happy with both my new IPTV &ISP in particular the IPTV, with whom I am able to watch TV live and stream programmes and much more. It's much cheaper than NTV, €15 per month with no plans to increase its rates for awhile yet, and I have just been informed that it is going to throw in Sports for the same price. O! forgot to mention; this offer is not open to MM subscribers.

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Wed 14 Dec 2016 12:55 pm

dap2410 wrote:Earlier this year I concelled both my IPTV (NTV) & ISP (MM) which I had had for 4 years or more, and took out new subscribtions with their competitors. Can't mention who, I might get blocked or worse lectured by a certain Kibtek member who insists he isn't in the employ of MM/NTV (I think you all know who I mean).
I'm more than happy with both my new IPTV &ISP in particular the IPTV, with whom I am able to watch TV live and stream programmes and much more. It's much cheaper than NTV, €15 per month with no plans to increase its rates for awhile yet, and I have just been informed that it is going to throw in Sports for the same price. O! forgot to mention; this offer is not open to MM subscribers.

If you are talking about Z*** then I think that it is best to not mention the name in full - the man was banned from the forum for allegedly (and I've no reason to suppose that it isn't true) breaking the forum rules repeatedly despite warnings. As he isn't able to come on here and defend himself, I think that it would be unfair to say more.

As to the service that his company provides, I have heard nothing but praise from his customers - less (although not zero) cases of 'buffering', and prompt and effective customer service.

I believe, although I could be wrong, that the consistent performance is in part due to the fact that most of the live TV streams that they host are 'SD' quality (Standard definition) rather than HD or HQ - still absolutely perfectly watchable though, and of about the same quality picture as 'Filmon' etc. I am led to believe that there is some difference in the way that they encode their signals which may make them slightly less prone to 'errors', but I can't confirm that. Because their streams are lower definition, they require a lot less bandwidth - I seem to recollect the chap saying that he had customers with less than 1.5Mbps watching quite happily. You certainly couldn't do that with NTV, as even their 'normal' streams require more than 2Mbps, and the HD ones will need considerably more... (I have to say that NTV's 'normal' streams are higher definition than Filmon, though).

I have been asked by a few people what I thought of 'Z'... and have given the same answer as this, but as the board owner does not want 'Z'... or his business to benefit from advertising on this board, I'm reluctant to say any more! - Even this much comment may attract the editor's pen

I repeat that I have no connection with MM (or NTV, for that matter) except as a customer.

You don't seem to believe me, and have, by implication, called me a liar - please desist !!

Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Join us