Green Hill Cemetery

[madeincyprus]

Myself and family hicked up to Green Hill Cemetery this afternoon to see your mums grave. When we arrived we were devastate by what we found. Our mums grave had collapsed and was full of water and as the new part has not been set out well at all everything was sliding. It really is a disgrace up there. Now i know that we cannot control the weather, but i feel that the people who look after green hill could have planed this park a little better. The ground for one had not been flattned before graves were dug, this has resulted in a very uneven slope and now graves and the surroundings are washing away. Would love to know what the 38 thousand pounds that has been taken off the family's of the deceased has gone too. A total mess.

[lally]

I am sure you are devastated by the mess up there and your Mums grave. I can only say that The Cemetary committee are made up of volunteers who do a fantastic job in very difficult conditions. The weather recently has just been so freaky and unusual and impossible to plan for. Maybe you should contact the cemetery committee direct, it could be that they are not even aware of the situation.

[snd1966]

Recently I visited the cemetery and was very impressed with how it was all laid out especially as the last visit was made after the terrible weather back in 2012 when graves had been disturbed and a lot of damage done throughout the area.
All the people involved with the cemeteries deserve all the support they can get, financial and man power, unfortunately not thought about until personally required. And yes I am guilty of this too. I should of put in government support, and an actual government department to deal with burials and staff not volunteers, then one can take their concerns to a higher authority
I can't even imagine the red tape they help with to enable minimum stress at the time they are required in always a distressing time.

[sophie]

I can appreciate how upset you feel about your mothers grave, but I know most of the Cemetery Committee personally and I promise you they do their very best under extremely difficult circumstances. I certainly wouldn't want to do it!! As mentioned above, the red tape is horrendous and the hoops they have to jump through equally dreadful. They go above and beyond in most cases in helping bereaved with Admin. Everyone would prefer the cemetery to be in an easily accessible place on nice flat ground with a small army of volunteers to keep everything spick and span, but it just isn't going to happen and we should be grateful that as non Muslims, we have a cemetery in the first place/

[cambridge]

Well said Sophie, 100% in agreement.

[madeincyprus]

It has taken me a few days to reply as i wanted to calm down first. Firstly yes i can understand what admin had to be done, it took me 6 weeks to register my mums deaths as the info i was given was incorrect. Secondly the coment tjat we should be greatful that we have a place to bury our dead has really wound me up. Should i say to all my muslim, hindu, jewish friends that they should be greatful for a place to bury there dead in the uk, hell no. All i was trying to say is it seems that great care has been taken with the planing of the first part of the cemetery and non really with the second part. I really wish i had not of bothered posting just wanted to warn other familys that might be planning a visit

[Ragged Robin]

I paid for a plot in the Old Cemetery in Girne nearly 20 years ago. A few years ago (at a cost I could ill afford) I also paid for a tree and arranged for it to be planted at the new Green Hill intendeding the tree to be a memorial which I could visit and tend in memory of loved ones in UK cemeteries . I was not told of the conditions at and surrounding the Green Hills and it was only with the help of a Cypriot friend and his rough terrain vehicle that I found the site and managed to plant the tree in very rough unprepared ground. It was obvious that although they had appealed for volunteesr to plant trees and welcomed my offer., the Committee had made no plans and provided no facilities. There was not even water laid on to water it in.

Being elderly and arthritic and driving an elderly saloon, I have been very upset at beiing unable to visit the site and my intended memorial, nor even to attend the funerals of friends and it looks as though my next chance will be in my hearse (if I am lucky). I note that madeincyrus and family hiked to the cemetery - not everyone can do that, nor afford or even want a four wheel drive. On the one occasion a kind friend took me to visit I was shocked by the condition of the graves and of my solitary neglected spindly tree!!!

The post by madeincyprus is the first I have heard for some time of my final resting placeIand I am very distressed by his rep f. I am even more distressed by the heartless responses,from other posters. I know of the many problems the Committee have to face and that the choice of site was beyond their control - as I assume is the fact that the promised improvements to access have apparently never materialised. However I am very tired and annoyed that every time some one reports a problem the instant response is that "we/they are only volunteers " quite often by people who have no obvious connection to the matte, Really if someone undertakes a responsibility and takes money from the public for providing a service they have accepted that they have a duty to provide that service or at least to explain to those affected why not and take any measures possible to alleviate any harm or distress caused. Furthermore heavy rainstorms are NOT unusual at this time of year madeincyprus is correct in saying that thought should have been given to this in laying out a cemetery on sloping and unstable ground. How is the adjoining Muslim cemetery standing up to the weather?

It must have been a very unpleasant experience for this family to visit a loved person's grave in this condition - all my sympathy goes to them ['- and indeed a shudder at the thought of ending up there myself!

I would have had a lot more confidence in and respect and sympathy for the Cemetery Committe if someone from the Committe had come on here and aplogised for this unfortunate experience and told us what steps were being taken to rectify the slippage of graves and prevent a recurrence. Defence by a "friend" of the Committee and others not apparently in any way connected is not merely not satisfactory it is very unfeeling. The whole incident is typical of the selfish, thoughtless and sometimes cruel attitude of the expat community here.

Please do not post offensive or provocative replies to this post. It is a subject that some of u s find sensitive and I have no intention of being drawn into one of the usual pointless arguments.

[The Dog Walker]

Soon after my husband died in 2011, there were floods and several graves slipped. I posted about this, so that people wouldn't be distressed if they intended visiting. I returned there a week later, and the workers had completed a very difficult job,-all was restored,--and since then improvements have continued. I respect and admire all that they do in often difficult conditions. Many thanks to them all.

[Rubyroo]

Ragged Robin quote "Being elderly and arthritic and driving an elderly saloon, I have been very upset at beiing unable to visit the site "

I go regularly to the cemetery and have had no problems getting there if I can be of assistance taking you if only for peace of mind then do pm me and I will take you there.

Yes at the moment the road is impassable except probably in a stronger vehicle than mine. This is due to the flood that was in the dip half way up to the cemetery. It is currently a quagmire and until it dries out I doubt many folk can go further by vehicle. I have tried to go twice since Christmas Day.

The cemetery IS well kept and I am happy with the work the committee do, sadly storms occur and there is damage in lots and lots of places not just the cemetery.

[Ragged Robin]

Thank you Rubyroo, that is a very kind offer. If a little late (not your fault of course). At the time I planted the tree arthritis prevented me walking far, (let alone scrambling up mountains!) but I was otherwise healthy and fairly fit, and had intended to help the Committee and mourners as well as honouring my dead by tending the tree and perhaps planting bulbs or wild flowers round it and doing other gardening jobs as required. Unfortunately even with a suitabe vehicle the distance from my home and difficult access made the journey too long for frequent visits . Unfortunately now my failing health and fragile bones would make a visit in this weather too risky. Perhaps I could contact you in a month or two Rr?
Meanwhile I am still having horrors at the thought of graves filling with water and the ground slipping. I have treated the body of my little dog who died recently with more respect than that!

Meanwhile I wonder if someone who can get to the cemetery - or when they can - could take general photos of it and its surroundings and perhaps also the worst bits of the access and post them here for the benefit of others wishing to visit but being worried about coping with the road surface , or those who can not visit. And reassure those who have been distressed by recent reports. Unfortunately although I get an annual acknowledgement of my payment, with tiny interest, I have to rely on very occasional mention in the Press or social media to know what is happening.

[Bernie]

I have been following this topic with interest and find it difficult to find fault with the organisers of the British Cemetery Committee however I can feel empathy towards ‘madeincyprus’ to be met with this sight when visiting his/her mum’s grave.

RR: - Yes it is volunteers who run this and yes they collect money for funerals and the upkeep of the cemetery but to hold them responsible for all that goes wrong when adverse weather kicks in I feel is totally unacceptable.

Firstly they are not responsible for the access or the position that the cemetery is built on, this is all down to the Belediye and I have been told that a road will be built at some stage once a Muslim cemetery is built up there. We cannot choose where a non Muslim cemetery can be situated we have to wait to be told where it can be and if it is half way up a mountainside, then so be it.

Secondly, without these people who do a very difficult job and not one that many of could face in arranging the bodies of our loved ones to be buried and all the ‘behind the scenes’ details that go on, what would happen to us expats? Where would we be buried?

To suggest taking photo’s and posting them on here would be totally irresponsible and utterly thoughtless to the people who have loved ones up there. What would be the aim of this, to cause further upset?

I am sure the BCC would have been made aware of the situation as it stands and will be doing there best to get the relevant machinery up that nightmare of a road to put everything back in order.

[Ragged Robin]

Bernie: Please have the consideration to read my post again properly:

1. I said that I understoood that the location was beyond the control of the Committee. I also said I assumed (because I had been given no information on the subject) the apparent lack of improvement to access was also not their fault.. I also asked about the Muslim cemetery because again I had been kept inthe dark.

2. I also explained that I had been prepared to volunteer to do more the make the cemetery attractive, but was foiled by the difficult access and lack of communication by the Committee.

3. I again said photos of the general areas as well as access for the benefit of those needing to see the conditions before visiting. I said 'general' to avoid photos of individual graves being published: I see absolutely no reason why photographs of the general area are offensive : indeed I co]sider it far less distressing than finding the condition unawares, or indeed, as seems to be a risk, getting bogged down on having an accident on the way to visit let alone getting the shock of finding the graves in that condition? Do you have no compassion at all for the distress of people who for reasons of disability or poverty are unable to visit the site and only find out what is like through a post such as madeincyprus. Indeed descriptions of the site may be coloured by the writer's emotions : it is only fair to the Committee as well as those who have invested money but can visit for themselves to provide photographs , although I do accept that some care and perhaps expertise should be used.

4. I also said that I felt that Volunteers in any Charity or area who had accepted public money had a duty to account for it ; if they failed for any reason (including those beyond their control) they should at least explain them. It is particularly important in this case because that failure causes considerable distress to vulnerable people

I did not blame[/u] the Committee for the current condition of the cemetery : I do not have sufficient information to judge. I do blame them for failing to notify people of distressing condition of the graves and now (apparently) particularly dangerous access..

I tried to avoid further distress for myself (and perhaps others) by asking that no offensive posts be sent. I consider Bernie's offensive , as well as insensitve since he/she has obvious just vented prejudices without considering the points made.

I shall not be posting here again and suggest the thread be closed before it becomes as unpleasant as so many here. Perhaps some kinder person could open new post where those who are able to visit regularly could update the less fortunate on conditions and accesss?

[Panchocat]

Maybe someone from the BCC could join this thread to explain how the problems raised are going to be resolved.
I think a lot of people would be reassured to know that the situation is in hand and is being dealt with.
It must be very distressing to read the original description if, like RR, you are unable to get up there yourself.
It would be nice if compassion and understanding were shown to those concerned, there is no need for people to get aggressive in their defence of the BCC, who we know work very hard.

[Keithcaley]

Maybe someone from the BCC could join this thread to explain how the problems raised are going to be resolved.
I think a lot of people would be reassured to know that the situation is in hand and is being dealt with.
It must be very distressing to read the original description if, like RR, you are unable to get up there yourself.
It would be nice if compassion and understanding were shown to those concerned, there is no need for people to get aggressive in their defence of the BCC, who we know work very hard.

Panchocat - To your certain knowledge, are any of the BCC actually members of this forum?

Would it not be easier (and less distressing for others) if anyone with concerns about the situation were to contact the BCC directly with their enquiry - rather than bandying about scare stories based on second hand information and speculation?

Just my opinion

[Ragged Robin]

Panchocat: Thank you for that very sensible and compassionate post!

KC I have problems with admin and the mods in the past , but nonetheless I am sure that they are good enough to ensure that a post from an organisation like the BCC with the intention of warning vulnerable people of potential danger and/or distress would appear regardless whether a member of the Committee was a member of this forum. As regards contacting direct, please turn the record off!!!!J This is said every time there is a problem concerning one of the "sacred cows" of the British "Raj" people who dont understand the vulnerability of others come up with this one . The original poster here has said that the intention was to warn others of the condition and save them shock and distress. Mine was to highlight the problems that some people suffer through lack of consideration for the less fortunate and my penutimate post to suggest a compromise solution to part of the problems (difficult access) that would be to the advantage of the BCC and perhaps save them time..
Neither would have been served by a direct approach to the BCC. One of the major points of a forum such as this is to enable people to exchange problems and warn of pitfalls, Quite often these or ganisations will not pay much attention to one indivual (particularly if they are already in some distress and vulnerable without any "influence" or financial incentives). The realisation that several people are concerned concentrates the mind wonderfully.

It does not help anyone if uninvolved people rush to the defence of various organisations (in fact rather it may raise suspicions where none had existed! "Methinks the Lady protests too much") Nor if those without compassion but a desire to dominate suggest solutions which may cause more aggravation or distress to already upset posters.

As on previous occasions when I have made a post which attracted offensive responses I have had pms and other sources of support, including a description of the condition of the oldcemetery which disturbed me. I am beginning to wonder why they cannot post direct, but suspect that want to avoid the sort of response that is displayed on this thread..

[Keithcaley]

RR - If the BCC are not actually members of this forum, then not only may they not be aware of this thread, but they would have no means to access it - helpful mods, or not...

As for the suggestion to contact an organisation direct being regularly trotted out, perhaps this is because it is the most sensible option!

I certainly would not attempt to contact an individual or organisation via this forum unless I was certain that they had access to the forum and visited it regularly enough to see my comments - and even then I would use the PM or the Email facility.

People could have had their answer days ago had they followed the startlingly simple procedure of picking up the 'phone!

Just my opinion.

[tomsteel]

KC, the direct dog 'n bone approach to a committee member is, of course, the most obvious solution to highlight a problem. However, that approach fails to highlight a problem to the larger audience and I think that was the intention of the original poster. However, I would not wish to argue against your view, I just think it fails to meet the concern of made in cyprus and subsequent posters with their own mobility problems. Personally, once I have departed this world, I care not where my bones lie.

[jofra]

I would have thought suggesting direct contact to an organisation (asking questions, seeking information) was rather the opposite of "defending" them....
No action/contact and non-stop inquisition/inquiring are the unacceptable extremes, but some degree of active concern should always be an option....

[Dalartokat]

I spoke to RR regards the old Cemetery in Girne in a conversation we had privately and did say that I would wait to see how this thread panned out as it was about the Green Hill Cemetery and didn't want to encourage remarks about being off topic.

Firstly, I know nothing about Green Hill Cemetery, but what I said was that I had visited the old Cemetery back in the week beginning 6th September 2015 to pay my respects to someone who had died in NC round about 2007 when I was on holiday also then. I actually saw the grave but as far as I recall it did not have a headstone as such but a cross with the name on. When I returned in 2015 I visited again and could not find the grave. I'm talking about the far end of the Cemetery, turning right and at the back.

I walked back through the Cemetery and looked around and took photos, because I was shocked at the state of headstones, the ground was very hard, clumps of earth and weeds. Now, the weather was very hot and humid and due to that being most of the time I know it would be difficult to keep looking tidy. Weeding, maybe could have been done and kept clean by sweeping up etc., but nothing can be done regards bare earth everywhere which is what makes it look unsightly.

It is upsetting to see a Cemetery unkempt but it could also be vandalism in this particular Cemetery. I have no idea who is responsible for the upkeep of it. However, there was a grave that was quite clearly marked who the person was, where they had lived and when they died and clearly the person was an expat. If the family have not been back for whatever reason and did then return, I think they would be shocked at the state of the grave because it looked like a lot of money had been spent.

There was a large mound of earth, another huge hole dug covered in a mesh arch,(looking like a garden cloche) graves with hand made signs. That's not criticising just pointing out.

It's the nature of the subject that's upsetting but obviously like everything else it all takes money and goodwill.

I still have the photos on my phone and when I returned from the holiday there just was not a suitable time when the subject should be brought up only when this thread came up did I mention it to RR to let RR know that Greenhill was not the only Cemetery that needed attention.

[tomsteel]

I trust this will not be taken as 'off-line', however. I had the sad occasion to attend the funeral of a dear Cypriot neighbour in Nicosia last week. The cemetery is a tip. Rubbish, empty plastic bottles, weeds et al. It would appear there is no requirement/respect for deceased family members here, unlike our experience of Spain.

[Soner]

I have just come across this thread, as not been reading much on the forum due to ill health over the Christmas period and New Year. To hear of the problems posted in this thread is very upsetting. Is there not a way that Kibkommers can help in any way? I am sure there are TC "expats" that could help with communicating with local government officials to try and get some funding for repairs and upkeep, and if that fails then maybe we can contribute by donating and/or giving time as a group event to clear/maintain the cemeteries.

If a member of the British Cemetery Committee can get in touch with me then maybe we can try and help sort something out. If anyone knows of any of the BCC members then please ask them to email me: info@kibkom.com

How long is this treacherous road up to the Green Hill Cemetery? What would it cost to tarmac or make good?

No good to just talk and/or defend, when simply some form of action is needed.

I for one will be happy to help. I will be out in TRNC around mid/end of March. Anyone willing and able, do get in touch with me.