Ending the year on a high...

[erol]

I have genuinely considered your question and to be honest it's just your condescending retorts that gets up peoples hooters,

Your hooter or peoples hooters ? I have no doubt I get up some people's hooters but then do we not all at times ?

"stop being silly", " your ramblings", "could i ask you to view posts with both eyes please","Mark my words","What a load of tosh","You are living in a world of Walter Mitty","I keep telling you","yes you were wrong AGAIN","I suppose if you make enough predictions may may get one right at some point","Hahaha","Your arrogance","You are indeed a very clever man if you can see into the future perhaps you are wasted in the job you currently do ?","Wind your neck in for gods sake man","You and your cronies"

Can you see no condescending remarks in your own posts turtle ?

Please tell me what predictions I have made ?

You have made countless but the specific one I was referring too was "yes it recovered stronger than ever and that will happen again".

The problem is Erol with respect you find it incredibly difficult to accept anyone who disagrees with you,

Where as you turtle ? No 'problem' there ?

For what it is worth and being honest my hunch is that your real problem with me and the way I post is that I disagree with you and I do not do the kind of things you accuse me off with anywhere near the kind of consistency that you do, rather than I do do those things.

[kerry 6138]

It disturbs me somewhat that the anti European brigade on the forum are so quick to blame the EU for just about everything wrong in the UK. A real belief that the Uk will be fine and dandy whilst at the same time maintaining a totally antagonistic and almost hateful view of anyone and anything European is worrying. It is this group of people that appear happy to take Europe back into the grey days of 1914 - 1918. I fear the said group of people fail to see that security together with peaceful cooperation and unity are real positives for the proliferation and continuation of mankind.

The grey days of 1914 -1918 came about because of expansionist policy of old empires in this case Austro Hungarians annexing Bosnia upsetting the Russians
What would happen if the EU (not European ) tried to expand its influence say into the Ukraine this may upset whats left of the USSR leading it to annex Crimea, this upsets Nato who beef up defences by sending troops to Poland and the Baltic states.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea ... ood_Policy
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/749 ... tic-states

[waz-24-7]

Waz, you can hardly blame me if you are wedded to an unstable, very expensive to run crumbling organisation.

If it wasn't Brexit today it would have been one of the others tomorrow, the EU is hated by many in all the countries that are members so stop kidding yourself it is a much loved organisation.
It has been warned to change its ways but arrogantly refused to listen so if blame is to be apportioned look a little closer to home.

I am indeed a supporter of the cooperative and better together philosophy that the EU has endeavoured to build. On the basis that a separatist Europe has historically led to great suffering and loss (war) ; all in the space of some 50 yrs ( a mere blink) Certainly the politics of Europe and indeed the modern world is currently in turmoil and right wing separatist administrations are becoming thrust into the limelight by right wing fundamentalists, just as Europe experienced in the 1930's. This is of concern.
I do not kid myself upon such important matters. I certainly hold a view and my view is quite clear. Your view is clearly different to mine and your despise for anything European is disappointing. Particularly as your alternatives are rather lacking. Perhaps you should contemplate upon the fact that you indeed are an immigrant. A foreigner in a foreign land. Soon to lose any protections that come with being a European citizen.

[waz-24-7]

It disturbs me somewhat that the anti European brigade on the forum are so quick to blame the EU for just about everything wrong in the UK. A real belief that the Uk will be fine and dandy whilst at the same time maintaining a totally antagonistic and almost hateful view of anyone and anything European is worrying. It is this group of people that appear happy to take Europe back into the grey days of 1914 - 1918. I fear the said group of people fail to see that security together with peaceful cooperation and unity are real positives for the proliferation and continuation of mankind.

The grey days of 1914 -1918 came about because of expansionist policy of old empires in this case Austro Hungarians annexing Bosnia upsetting the Russians
What would happen if the EU (not European ) tried to expand its influence say into the Ukraine this may upset whats left of the USSR leading it to annex Crimea, this upsets Nato who beef up defences by sending troops to Poland and the Baltic states.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea ... ood_Policy
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/749 ... tic-states

Kerry it is precisely the expansionist policies of individual and self centred counties that made up Europe in the 1930's that led to strife, discontent and war. The cooperative and cohesive structure of modern Europe, whilst not perfect, has led to the most stable and peaceful multi cultural continent in the World.

[turtle]

I am indeed a supporter of the cooperative and better together philosophy that the EU has endeavoured to build. On the basis that a separatist Europe has historically led to great suffering and loss (war) ; all in the space of some 50 yrs ( a mere blink) Certainly the politics of Europe and indeed the modern world is currently in turmoil and right wing separatist administrations are becoming thrust into the limelight by right wing fundamentalists, just as Europe experienced in the 1930's. This is of concern.
I do not kid myself upon such important matters. I certainly hold a view and my view is quite clear. Your view is clearly different to mine and your despise for anything European is disappointing. Particularly as your alternatives are rather lacking. Perhaps you should contemplate upon the fact that you indeed are an immigrant. A foreigner in a foreign land. Soon to lose any protections that come with being a European citizen.

Did you listen to Mrs May speech today ?....I can honestly say I fully endorse what she said and agree with every word which totally rubbishes your last post.

[waz-24-7]

I am indeed a supporter of the cooperative and better together philosophy that the EU has endeavoured to build. On the basis that a separatist Europe has historically led to great suffering and loss (war) ; all in the space of some 50 yrs ( a mere blink) Certainly the politics of Europe and indeed the modern world is currently in turmoil and right wing separatist administrations are becoming thrust into the limelight by right wing fundamentalists, just as Europe experienced in the 1930's. This is of concern.
I do not kid myself upon such important matters. I certainly hold a view and my view is quite clear. Your view is clearly different to mine and your despise for anything European is disappointing. Particularly as your alternatives are rather lacking. Perhaps you should contemplate upon the fact that you indeed are an immigrant. A foreigner in a foreign land. Soon to lose any protections that come with being a European citizen.

Did you listen to Mrs May speech today ?....I can honestly say I fully endorse what she said and agree with every word which totally rubbishes your last post.

Good speech by Mrs May indeed.
I cannot understand your own post/statement however.
How is my view "rubbish" ?

[Geoff1131]

Well waz, the £ has gone up 3% after Mrs May's speech but the FT 100 has dropped by nearly 1.5 % I suppose now you will tell us that the exchange rate is a yo-yo and you fully expected it to rebound. But the drop in the FT is a catastrophe and we are all dooooooooomed.

[turtle]

I am indeed a supporter of the cooperative and better together philosophy that the EU has endeavoured to build. On the basis that a separatist Europe has historically led to great suffering and loss (war)

The 2 great wars has 1 common denominator and they are still calling all the shots to this day in Europe it's time it stopped.

Your view is clearly different to mine and your despise for anything European is disappointing.

You really do have to stop this story telling Waz,...I do not despise anything European ... I just dislike the EU and how its run, there is a difference

Perhaps you should contemplate upon the fact that you indeed are an immigrant. A foreigner in a foreign land. Soon to lose any protections that come with being a European citizen.

Nope sorry you lost me on that one ?

[waz-24-7]

I am indeed a supporter of the cooperative and better together philosophy that the EU has endeavoured to build. On the basis that a separatist Europe has historically led to great suffering and loss (war)

The 2 great wars has 1 common denominator and they are still calling all the shots to this day in Europe it's time it stopped.

Your view is clearly different to mine and your despise for anything European is disappointing.

You really do have to stop this story telling Waz,...I do not despise anything European ... I just dislike the EU and how its run, there is a difference

Perhaps you should contemplate upon the fact that you indeed are an immigrant. A foreigner in a foreign land. Soon to lose any protections that come with being a European citizen.

Nope sorry you lost me on that one ?

Sorry but your comments do need expanding.
The common denominator you refer to please? Possibly separatist , individual nations with conflicting agendas?

OK you dislike the European Union....to such an extent you have secured your wish for a divorce . Not a very friendly message I think.

I am making an assumption that you live in Cyprus or visit regularly . If I am incorrect, then your surrender of European status will be less of an impact and only effective when you travel out of the UK and into Europe. If' however, you were to be frequently in TRNC and possibly entering Europe via the current partition border then I would expect the ROC to be somewhat less welcoming to non Europeans particularly British citizens that have assets within TRNC.

[turtle]

The common denominator you refer to please? Possibly separatist , individual nations with conflicting agendas?

Is it that hard Waz?... Germany

Not a very friendly message I think.

Waz I have said before many times I was quite prepared to vote remain if the EU was prepared to change its ways and the way they treated the UK and Cameron in particular it was very clear we had to tow the line and how dare we rock the boat,...some democracy eh ? so if friendliness was on the agenda then it was lacking on their part not ours.

I am making an assumption that you live in Cyprus or visit regularly . If I am incorrect, then your surrender of European status will be less of an impact and only effective when you travel out of the UK and into Europe. If' however, you were to be frequently in TRNC and possibly entering Europe via the current partition border then I would expect the ROC to be somewhat less welcoming to non Europeans particularly British citizens that have assets within TRNC.

Yes I do live in the UK and visit Cyprus a few times a year and generally enter via Turkey but why would the ROC be less welcoming if things change ? and if it means a little extra wait at passport control in any other country then so be it,... it can't be any worse than passport control in the UK...can it ?

[waz-24-7]

The common denominator you refer to please? Possibly separatist , individual nations with conflicting agendas?

Is it that hard Waz?... Germany

Not a very friendly message I think.

Waz I have said before many times I was quite prepared to vote remain if the EU was prepared to change its ways and the way they treated the UK and Cameron in particular it was very clear we had to tow the line and how dare we rock the boat,...some democracy eh ? so if friendliness was on the agenda then it was lacking on their part not ours.

I am making an assumption that you live in Cyprus or visit regularly . If I am incorrect, then your surrender of European status will be less of an impact and only effective when you travel out of the UK and into Europe. If' however, you were to be frequently in TRNC and possibly entering Europe via the current partition border then I would expect the ROC to be somewhat less welcoming to non Europeans particularly British citizens that have assets within TRNC.

Yes I do live in the UK and visit Cyprus a few times a year and generally enter via Turkey but why would the ROC be less welcoming if things change ? and if it means a little extra wait at passport control in any other country then so be it,... it can't be any worse than passport control in the UK...can it ?

Turtle,
Your failure to understand is astonishing. If you think that Germany is the cause of European war then surely as part of a unified Europe you should feel safer from the perceived German threat, Do you therefore believe that if Germany should also leave the EU then another German instigated war is on the cards? Both world wars had several participants wishing to expand upon their territorial and self indulging agendas. Germany was just one such player you are so wrong to lay blame on a single country. 1920 -1945 Europe including Turkey and Russia was awash with self indulgent expansionist dictators. Modern Europe is peaceful, stable and tolerant. You clearly think that the UK is better outside this union. I think that is a miss judgment.

You currently presumably have a European passport. This gives you right of passage through Europe including the ROC. The UK will soon become alien and visa applications often via special application just like other foreign nationals will prevail. Visa refusals are very common as UK citizens will no longer have a right of entry. Why do you expect a UK citizen should be dealt with differently to say a Russian or a Mexican for example. Possibly you have become too accustomed to your EUROPEAN passport and the freedom of movement that it has awarded you.

[turtle]

Waz
Please stop putting your own special spin on what I write...you appear to have a very vivid imagination

I am old enough to remember the pre European passports and do you know.....I can't remember having any problems travelling around,... stop scare mongering again,

[Geoff1131]

waz, turtle has just stated that he visits TRNC and usually enters via Turkey. So he will not need a visa to enter the TRNC just as Russians do not need a visa for the TRNC. If you are going to post facts please do your homework before stating said facts otherwise people will think you are a fool.

[kerry 6138]

Waz - you really need to re read your post, you talk about past wars being started by expansionists policies and then defend the only organisation in Europe with an expansionists policy.
The Treaty of Versailles imposed punative reparations on Germany after the first war and led to the rise of National Socialist popularity, not unlike the EU's bail out conditions led to the rise of Syriza in Greece.

[waz-24-7]

waz, turtle has just stated that he visits TRNC and usually enters via Turkey. So he will not need a visa to enter the TRNC just as Russians do not need a visa for the TRNC. If you are going to post facts please do your homework before stating said facts otherwise people will think you are a fool.

I think you will find that all foreign entrants to the TRNC need a VISA. usually between 30 and 90 days issued at point of entry; unless you have residency status.
UK citizens currently enjoy European status and enjoy freedom of travel within the EU including the ROC as an EU member state.
Upon divorce from the EU. The UK passport will no longer enjoy that status. That is quite obvious to you surely.
I expect that the UK government will endeavour to negotiate individual passage agreements but I expect this will take many years.
It is perfectly possible indeed likely that most of Europe will require visa applications from UK citizens who wish to enter or pass through.
There is nothing unusual about international travel or the requirement for entrance visas. My point is that many people have possibly become too familiar with the freedoms of travel that they have enjoyed with their European status.
The ROC will, I expect, capitalise on the fact that UK citizens ( particularly those identified as having TRNC assets) have no right of entry, passage or have protection from European law

[waz-24-7]

Waz - you really need to re read your post, you talk about past wars being started by expansionists policies and then defend the only organisation in Europe with an expansionists policy.
The Treaty of Versailles imposed punative reparations on Germany after the first war and led to the rise of National Socialist popularity, not unlike the EU's bail out conditions led to the rise of Syriza in Greece.

Kerry
I think your EU expansionist policy should possibly be enlargement. The enlargement of the EU is by application, consideration and vote.
The expansionist policy that I have referred to is clearly implemented by aggressive force, invasion and war.
The difference is surely clear.

[kerry 6138]

Waz - you really need to re read your post, you talk about past wars being started by expansionists policies and then defend the only organisation in Europe with an expansionists policy.
The Treaty of Versailles imposed punative reparations on Germany after the first war and led to the rise of National Socialist popularity, not unlike the EU's bail out conditions led to the rise of Syriza in Greece.

Kerry
I think your EU expansionist policy should possibly be enlargement. The enlargement of the EU is by application, consideration and vote.
The expansionist policy that I have referred to is clearly implemented by aggressive force, invasion and war.
The difference is surely clear.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/t ... ustria.htm
Nineteen months would elapse from the day Hitler grabbed control of the German Army until the actual start of World War II. During those months, Hitler engaged in a kind of gangster diplomacy in which he bluffed, bullied, threatened, and lied to various European leaders in order to expand the borders of his Reich.

[waz-24-7]

Waz - you really need to re read your post, you talk about past wars being started by expansionists policies and then defend the only organisation in Europe with an expansionists policy.
The Treaty of Versailles imposed punative reparations on Germany after the first war and led to the rise of National Socialist popularity, not unlike the EU's bail out conditions led to the rise of Syriza in Greece.

Kerry
I think your EU expansionist policy should possibly be enlargement. The enlargement of the EU is by application, consideration and vote.
The expansionist policy that I have referred to is clearly implemented by aggressive force, invasion and war.
The difference is surely clear.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/t ... ustria.htm
Nineteen months would elapse from the day Hitler grabbed control of the German Army until the actual start of World War II. During those months, Hitler engaged in a kind of gangster diplomacy in which he bluffed, bullied, threatened, and lied to various European leaders in order to expand the borders of his Reich.

Kerry
I think you should indeed read my posts a little more carefully.
Your "historyplace.com" reference adds total support to my case. The expansionist gangster diplomacy of separatist Europe led to conflict and ultimately WAR. The cooperation and co existence within the EU provides for diplomatic and proper channels to resolve differences and find resolution. The absence of military and gangster type aggression has maintained peace and diplomacy prevails. This is no bad thing.
On the other hand given the election of the Mr Putin friendly new USA president. I worry about the possible day that these two gangster type men fall out. A re emergence of the cold war? A cold war like no other before and with global repercussions that are frightening.

[kerry 6138]

Waz-Think you may find a few Greek pensioners who consider Mr Junker and the commission gangsters.
I dont really see the difference between expansion and enlargement, using words like isolationist doesn't make it so may I remind you the Prime Minister recently visited India and the only thing stopping trade negotiations with US Australia Canada et al is the rules of the EU.
You like to write about dark days of war etc. But Its noted you never responded to the post about Nato troops heading east in response to Russian aggression over Ukraine and the EU expansion / enlargement program's part in that.

[turtle]

Personally I am of the opinion that Germany see themselves as a dominant party in most of what they do but in the EU where members are supposed to be equals it appears they are a tad more equal than the rest of us.
In truth what Germany says.....goes.

[kaiserphil]

Personally I am of the opinion that Germany see themselves as a dominant party in most of what they do but in the EU where members are supposed to be equals it appears they are a tad more equal than the rest of us.
In truth what Germany says.....goes.

I am afraid that a number of Germans around us still see themselves as superior to the rest of us, and I don't mean Neo-Nazis. Very sad.

[waz-24-7]

Waz-Think you may find a few Greek pensioners who consider Mr Junker and the commission gangsters.
I dont really see the difference between expansion and enlargement, using words like isolationist doesn't make it so may I remind you the Prime Minister recently visited India and the only thing stopping trade negotiations with US Australia Canada et al is the rules of the EU.
You like to write about dark days of war etc. But Its noted you never responded to the post about Nato troops heading east in response to Russian aggression over Ukraine and the EU expansion / enlargement program's part in that.

Kerry. I agree with you in the part upon Greek pensioners. However, an aggressive expansionist territorial agenda is very different indeed to a peaceful democratic enlargement of a Union.
The Russian aggression you refer to is exactly a case in point. The EU and USA response together has been sanctions that have cost the Russian economy very dear. Military intervention has clearly been held back. Why? a lot of discussion and thought there I think. EU enlargement is not an aggressive move an warrants no action. It can easily be rejected. After all to join the EU one must make application.
Yes the EU has trade deals across the World and the UK has done very well economically from these deals. There has never been an issue upon trade deals via the EU protocol.

[waz-24-7]

Personally I am of the opinion that Germany see themselves as a dominant party in most of what they do but in the EU where members are supposed to be equals it appears they are a tad more equal than the rest of us.
In truth what Germany says.....goes.

I am afraid that a number of Germans around us still see themselves as superior to the rest of us, and I don't mean Neo-Nazis. Very sad.

Germany has, for past century , been a dominant force within Europe.
During the period 1914-1945 their position was used to the detriment of others and led to the two terrible wars and loss of life that we are all familiar with.
In modern Europe Germany remains a dominant force in the main because of its strong and robust economy and its geographical position.
The Union of Europe has certainly totally removed the possibility of the pre war aggressive expansionist agenda that German leaders and fundamentalists sold successfully to the German electorate. As I have said; peace in our time prevails in the main because of the union and cooperation within the European Union.