British expats in Spain count the Costa Brexit – video

[PoshinDevon]

Waz you posted as below...

Waz 24-7 posted: The UK people who voted to leave the EU have taken little heed of world issues and problems but have chosen to follow the ill guided propaganda of isolationism and xenophobia.

You said the UK people who voted to leave the EU have chosen to follow ill guided propaganda of isolationism and xenophobia. I voted to leave the EU - I find it incredible that you can suggest I and many millions in the U.K. who voted the same are isolationist, xenophobic and follow guided propaganda.

I ask again. Please provide hard evidence - how do you know? Back this up with facts please.

[waz-24-7]

Farage ...disappeared ??

Waz do you live in a cave !

Mr Farage possibly in a cave somewhere . Hopefully outside of the UK.

OK where is he.? Does he even have a job?
Whilst we are at it. What has happened to UKIP the champions of BREXIT !! ?

Never in political history has a leader and his party disappeared so quickly after victory.
Does that tell you anything?

[turtle]

Farage whole purpose for the last 20 yrs was to get us out of the EU and tomorrow (please don't cry) he will have achieved his dream.
Now Waz try to understand that his work is done look at it like say a heart surgeon who operates on a real sick patient and repairs his heart saves his life and then leaves him to get on with the rest of his life.....well that is what Nigel has done getting on with the rest of his life..

Now lets see where Cameron Osbourne are right now...have they stood firm to fight their corner are they trying to support you remainers....not a chance....these are the real charlatans in all this and you say nothing about the fact that they abandoned people like you and you just dismiss it.

If there was any real passion to fight your corner they would be there now but where are they?.......they and you should be ashamed how remain fell apart at the first hurdle.

[waz-24-7]

Farage whole purpose for the last 20 yrs was to get us out of the EU and tomorrow (please don't cry) he will have achieved his dream.
Now Waz try to understand that his work is done look at it like say a heart surgeon who operates on a real sick patient and repairs his heart saves his life and then leaves him to get on with the rest of his life.....well that is what Nigel has done getting on with the rest of his life..

Now lets see where Cameron Osbourne are right now...have they stood firm to fight their corner are they trying to support you remainers....not a chance....these are the real charlatans in all this and you say nothing about the fact that they abandoned people like you and you just dismiss it.

If there was any real passion to fight your corner they would be there now but where are they?.......they and you should be ashamed how remain fell apart at the first hurdle.

Glad you think the job is done. That clearly illustrates a gross lack of understanding. The task is just about to start and likely to go on for many many years.
Now if Mr Farage ,after his victory, had been in a (god forbid) position to carry through on his "take back control" agenda then some respect may be due. He is not and very unlikely ever to be in a position of political strength. He is a fraudster in my book.
It is astonishing how the general public by enlarge were hoodwinked by this idiot who held no political position of value or credence and they voted against every major politician, political party, industrialists and persons of substance. Unbelievable!!
However,
Many businesses and people with an enlightened view on how brexit will unfold will not suffer unduly. I am afraid that it is working people and pensioners as well as the younger generation who will pay most dearly for the folly. If you are in one of these sectors then indeed you may reach out for a handkerchief... soon!!

[mickhm]

Waz, what is your answer to Turtles question regarding Cameron, Osbourne and co? why are they still not fighting the corner for the reoaners like you? At least Farage is still preaching on LBC on a regular basis.

[waz-24-7]

Waz, what is your answer to Turtles question regarding Cameron, Osbourne and co? why are they still not fighting the corner for the reoaners like you? At least Farage is still preaching on LBC on a regular basis.

OK
Simple.
Mr Cameron, whom I think was a good leader having guided the country out of the 2008 recession, lost the gamble he made by holding a referendum. He lost and as a remainer was not well placed to continue with leadership in something he did not believe in. He did the honourable thing and stepped down. Mr Osbourne similarly. Consider this.
If it was Mr Cameron or Mr Farage. Who would you chose to lead? It is correct in my view that the loser should step down. Frankly, Mr Farage would be incapable of leadership. The man is a totalitarian power freak.

[Dalartokat]

The UK has moved on from Nigel Farage, Paul Nuttall is the leader of UKIP. Pointless keep talking about him, whatever you think he has done, is done. Move forward.

[waz-24-7]

The UK has moved on from Nigel Farage, Paul Nuttall is the leader of UKIP. Pointless keep talking about him, whatever you think he has done, is done. Move forward.

Yes indeed.
Paul Nuttal ,,,, Another nobody with no presence,, no credibility or the slightest chance of leading the country through BREXIT.

UKIP. Farcical gathering of political idiots who hoodwinked the British public and then collapsed into a cloud of incompetence.

[erol]

You said the UK people who voted to leave the EU have chosen to follow ill guided propaganda of isolationism and xenophobia. I voted to leave the EU - I find it incredible that you can suggest I and many millions in the U.K. who voted the same are isolationist, xenophobic and follow guided propaganda.

My mother voted for leave. She is not xenophobic, anti immigrant, isolationist or racist. I am still of the opinion however she was 'sold a pup'. She was swayed by notions of 'talking back control' and of 'not being ruled by faceless bureaucrats'. I think she was sold a pup because in my view she never had any control and has always been ruled by faceless bureaucrats and almost certainly always will in her lifetime. I do not believe Brexit will magically endow her with any more control over her life or stop her life being affected by decisions and action of faceless bureaucrats, any more than I believe she had such greater control or protection from faceless bureaucrats before the UK joined the EU than she has today on the verge of the UK starting the process to exit the EU.
As to those who voted for Brexit in the belief that it would lead to the UK significantly reducing immigration into the UK, of which my mother is not one, I am also of the view that they have also been 'sold a pup'. Large scale immigration into the UK started way before the UK joined the EU and will continue long after we have left in my opinion. Brexit may lead to some shift in where such immigrants come from but I remain extremely sceptical that it will lead to any significant reduction in over all numbers.

Just my personal perspective and tuppence worth.

[waz-24-7]

Erol
Yes indeed
I share your view.
It is a shame that many are unwilling, unable or embarrassed to admit that , like your mother they were hoodwinked..
I feel sure that many still believe that UKIP would in fact become a leading political party and Mr Farage would form a BREXIT government. I still meet people who think this will be the case.
Many were shocked that Mr Cameron resigned. These same people are happy to lay blame and seek recourse against Mr Cameron whilst Mr Farage and UKIP remain their hero. A grossly misplaced view.

I agree also with your take on immigration. The UK economy has relied on Immigrant workers for centuries. During the years of Colonialism. Foreign workers were employed offshore. When the UK mainland wanted cheap labour they imported it as in the 1950.s. Modern immigration is far more selective with many highly skilled professionals as well as general labourers. The notion that immigrants are simply in the UK to take, steal and commit crime is totally wrong. its was only the UKIP hoodwinkers who managed to sell this notion to the gullible sections of UK society.

[erol]

Farage whole purpose for the last 20 yrs was to get us out of the EU and tomorrow (please don't cry) he will have achieved his dream.

If there was any real passion to fight your corner they would be there now but where are they?.......they and you should be ashamed how remain fell apart at the first hurdle.

It is indeed time to move on and generations unable to vote in the referendum or indeed perhaps yet born, will not doubt continue to 'move things on' as they rise to power within the UK and outside of it too. Maybe Brexit will mark the 'turning point' from which in time, maybe 20 years or maybe 50 years or more, people within the UK and throughout Europe looked at the 'experiment' of union through 'supra nationalism' (the political half way house on the spectrum somewhere between con federation and full federation) and start serious consideration and discussion of full European federalism, of a United states of Europe. Such ideas, if they do emerge and gain traction, certainly will not be driven by the likes of Cameron, or Osborne, or Blair or Farage. New ideas and new aspirations will come from new people and a new generation and I have little doubt they will show as much passion as those who have come before them.

There has always been and will always be a drive for ever greater integration between groups of people, politically, economically and socially. Just as there have been and always will be drives for greater regional and local autonomy and control. I personally do not see these two 'drives' as diametrically opposed opposites, with one having to be at the expense of the other but rather as two side of the same single coin.

[erol]

The notion that immigrants are simply in the UK to take, steal and commit crime is totally wrong. its was only the UKIP hoodwinkers who managed to sell this notion to the gullible sections of UK society.

I do not see things quite so simply or black and white as that. Whilst I agree there is much 'demagoguery' in much of UKIP's rhetoric I do not think you can put down the support that they have gained simply to people being 'gullible'.

Immigration IS an agent of change and I think that change does frighten people, probably with good evolutionary reasons why it does. I grew up from the age of about 9 connected to Luton, where my parents had a fast food business and St. Albans where my (great) Aunty and Uncle lived and with whom I and my brother spent much time. Over the time I have know Luton, say from 1970 to 2000 odd, it changed massively in that time and one of the biggest and most visible changes was in the 'colour' of the average person you see there and especially in certain parts of Luton. I can understand how this change is un-settling and a cause of fears, rational or otherwise, to say a 'white English' person born in Luton in say 1960.

St Albans in that same period did not significantly change in terms of 'colour' of people there. Yet it did also change massively in this same period. My great Uncle was born in St Albans and lived there within a roughly 20 mile radius his whole life. He originally grew up and worked on an 'estate' and was intimately connected to the 'land' in the area around where he was born and lived. He used to take me and my brother on expeditions 'shrooming and blackberry picking, walking for miles and coming back overloaded with produce. He would take us to streams and rivers to fish and catch cray fish. Over the same period Luton was changing , so too did St Albans change. Year after year the blackberry picking areas of his and indeed my childhood shrunk and disappeared, to inexorably give way to the massive and new 'St Albans City Hospital' in the 80's and the countless housing estates and other developments. I saw rivers and streams we used to fish in 'die' in that period. In that period my Uncle was not far off of retirement, having before my time seen the demise of the 'country house' that he worked for as a youth and then to become a 'factory' worker for a local 'British Metal Box' company as he used to call it. In the period I am discussing I saw and was aware of the slow erosion of this kind of business and work as manufacturing jobs bleed away from palces like St Albans and went elsewhere. My uncle and Aunty lived the vast majority of their lives in the same simple rented house, never owning a home of their own. For much of the period I am recounting it had an outside toilet, small kitchen and a 'front room' (barely used apart from special and formal occasions) and a sitting room with a 'pantry' in between under the stairs and upstairs two small bedrooms. Until the mid to late 1980's it had no inside bathroom at all. Washing, shaving, brushing teeth were all done in the Kitchen sink and bathing was done in a tin batch in the sitting room in front of the coal fireplace ! In the period I am discussing the 'community' of people living in and around my Aunty and Uncle change dramatically. Hardly at all in terms of the 'colour' of their neighbours but massively in terms of the transitory nature of them. From the early 70's when most of their neighbours had also grown up in and around St Albans an lived in the same (mainly) rented houses all their lives and even for generations, to ever increasing 'transitory' neighbours, there for a few years until they moved onward and upwards to better things. Whilst St Albans in 2000 was still a 'quintessentially' English town, with it's Roman remains and imposing Abbey, the nature of the town also changed massively in this period. From no 'fast food' outlets other than the local fish and chip shop to the 'Sainsbury's' that look more like a deli counter than what we consider today to be a 'supermarket', to the market itself. All these changed dramatically in the still 'predominately white' St Albans. Cultural attitudes also changed massively in this period for my Uncle and Aunty, again all without any significant increase in 'immigrants' to drive such changes, from everything to attitudes towards sex out of wedlock to single mothers to homosexuality and more besides.

The point I am trying to come to in what has become a long and rambling post, is that both places - Luton and St Albans saw massive change in the period 1975-2000. I think this change was unsettling to those like my uncle who experienced it and lived through it and was an understandable cause of 'fear' and 'concern'. However in the case of my Uncle and St Albans there was no immediate 'face' to this change, the loss of the 'land' to development, the loss of community, the loss of 'cultural values' and the like, these were all 'faceless' aspects of global economics' and other 'faceless' factors. In Luton the same kind of changes , driven in my view essentially by the same 'faceless' forces as in St Albans, did have a 'face' and it was a predominately non white 'Asian' face in the case of Luton. I think it is the 'change' and the feeling of 'no control' that is the root of peoples fears and concerns but in Luton when say jobs in the vauxhall car plant were being slashed in the 70's and 80's due to forces of mechanisation and globalisation, I can understand how a 'white British' person made redundant then projected these fears and concerns over 'change' on to the 'face' of an immigrant even though such immigrants were in my view an effect of the change that causes their fear and concerns rather than a root cause of it.

So I do not think UKIP and those like them so much 'trick the gullible' to gain support as they seek to effectively and I believe in most cases cynically exploit genuine fears and concerns that people naturally have about 'change' generally to their own political advantage. It is easy for demagogues like those found in UKIP and elsewhere to take these genuine fears and concerns that people naturally have when surrounding by such change and in our increasingly 'instant' world' offer a simple and 'instant' explanation of 'immigration' and 'loss of control to Eurocrats'. However I do not think these people have any real answers or any real solutions. I think they offer nothing more than 'lazy' politics. Without immigration, and outside of the EU, Luton would still be as 'changed' today as St Albans and people would still have an underlying sense of 'unwanted change' that is 'outside of their control' to contain or effect. Outside of the EU and without immigrants we will still have the same driving sense of fear and concern, just we will not have such easy and lazy target to blame for it in my opinion.

[PoshinDevon]

[Waz 24-7.......You wrote that the UK people who voted to leave the EU have chosen to follow ill guided propaganda of isolationism and xenophobia.

I voted to leave the EU - I find it incredible that you can suggest I and many millions in the U.K. who voted the same are isolationist, xenophobic and follow propaganda./b]

Waz, still waiting for you to respond to the above and back this up with hard evidence and facts. You seem to have conveniently ignored my posting whilst answering others.

The UK for all its faults has embraced multiculturalism and many different beliefs and faiths. Your comment that the majority of those who voted for the UK to leave the EU followed some mis guided propaganda and are isolationist and xenophobic is a very general statement not backed by facts or evidence - how many of those that voted leave followed the propaganda? What is this propaganda that you talk about?

Your post suggests a very blinkered and dangerous viewpoint. It was a referendum on whether the U.K. should leave the EU, it was not Nazi type propaganda suggesting that we remove or ban all those who are from a different race, have different beliefs or follow a different religion. To suggest that, shows intolerance and little respect for those who voted leave and our democracy and the will of the people.

[elizabeth]

Perhaps now that Article 50 is finally being triggered the likes of Waz will stop insulting the intelligence of those who voted to leave the EU and accept the result of the referendum once and for all, I have found many of his comments patronising and offensive.
Of those I have spoken to not one person expected Nigel Farage to lead the country or for UKIP to form a government, I most certainly didn't, we had a Prime Minister in place who I believed would carry out the will of the people following the referendum which he had granted, however he wasn't up to the task.
How ever many clever words are used immigration is a huge problem in the UK, of course there are immigrants who are hard working and an asset to the country, but there are many more who do not contribute anything at all but actually take out, the country just cannot sustain such high levels of immigration without vital services being affected, saying that does not mean I am a racist !!
There are many high profile business leaders who are upbeat and confident about the future of the UK outside of Europe, they, like most of us, know that it won't all be easy all of the time but who knows, it hasn't been done before so why not pull together and aim for success.
As they say , the darkest time is before the dawn, let's look forward to a bright new future and stay positive, for all our sakes.

[erol]

How ever many clever words are used immigration is a huge problem in the UK, of course there are immigrants who are hard working and an asset to the country, but there are many more who do not contribute anything at all but actually take out, the country just cannot sustain such high levels of immigration without vital services being affected,

With all due respect, it is just not true that 'many more' immigrants 'take out' from the UK than those who 'put in'. Not in terms of numbers of people or in terms of the total amounts those groups 'put in' and 'take out'. Clearly you and significant numbers of others perceive such things to be true and self evident but that does mean they are.

[PoshinDevon]

How ever many clever words are used immigration is a huge problem in the UK, of course there are immigrants who are hard working and an asset to the country, but there are many more who do not contribute anything at all but actually take out, the country just cannot sustain such high levels of immigration without vital services being affected,

With all due respect, it is just not true that 'many more' immigrants 'take out' from the UK than those who 'put in'. Not in terms of numbers of people or in terms of the total amounts those groups 'put in' and 'take out'. Clearly you and significant numbers of others perceive such things to be true and self evident but that does mean they are.

How ever many clever words are used immigration is a huge problem in the UK, of course there are immigrants who are hard working and an asset to the country, but there are many more who do not contribute anything at all but actually take out, the country just cannot sustain such high levels of immigration without vital services being affected,

With all due respect, it is just not true that 'many more' immigrants 'take out' from the UK than those who 'put in'. Not in terms of numbers of people or in terms of the total amounts those groups 'put in' and 'take out'. Clearly you and significant numbers of others perceive such things to be true and self evident but that does mean they are.

Whilst I agree with you Erol - that it's not true that many more immigrants take it from the UK than those who put in, I have a close friend who is a senior civil servant and one of her previous roles was managing front line customer facing staff in what was the old job centre in Rochdale, a town with a high % of Asian immigrants.

Unfortunately a large number of them found their way to the job centre on a weekly basis. They knew how to manipulate the system and take more than they gave. Whilst I in no way condone this train of thought, if you are resident in a town where there is a large immigrant population and it appears that many of them are taking rather than giving then you can understand why some people would have a more negative attitude towards immigrants?

There is no denying that immigration was a consideration in the Brexit referendum, but so were many other issues such as our payments into this organisation, implementation of EU law and legislation, the perceived gravy train of faceless EU ministers many who have recently made less than complimentary comments concerning the U.K. and much more. I believe that many who voted to leave would have considered more than just immigration....I certainly did.

On both sides of the leave or remain arguments there will be those who take a more extreme viewpoint. That is why I find it concerning that Waz 24-7 takes the view that those who voted to leave were influenced by some sort of ill guided propoganda and are isolationist and xenophobic - that is an extremely worrying point of view and simply not the case. I have asked Waz a few times to provide factual evidence for this generalist statement and the silence from his response is deafening and tells me all I want to know about someone who is championing the argument to remain. Those sort of comments in no way helps the argument to remain.

Democracy has fortunately prevailed, Article 50 will be triggered and the UK will today set in motion the formal negotiations to leave the EU.

[elizabeth]

How ever many clever words are used immigration is a huge problem in the UK, of course there are immigrants who are hard working and an asset to the country, but there are many more who do not contribute anything at all but actually take out, the country just cannot sustain such high levels of immigration without vital services being affected,

With all due respect, it is just not true that 'many more' immigrants 'take out' from the UK than those who 'put in'. Not in terms of numbers of people or in terms of the total amounts those groups 'put in' and 'take out'. Clearly you and significant numbers of others perceive such things to be true and self evident but that does mean they are.

I suppose it's all relative to where you live and how your local services are affected, probably in affluent areas of the South it's not noticeable but in many poorer regions of the country it is a huge problem for the local population. Recognising that fact doesn't make a person racist or isolationist, as Posh has said there were very many more reasons for myself and others to vote to leave the EU.

[erol]

I suppose it's all relative to where you live and how your local services are affected, probably in affluent areas of the South it's not noticeable but in many poorer regions of the country it is a huge problem for the local population. Recognising that fact doesn't make a person racist or isolationist,

In some ways I am reluctant to try too hard to try and use logic and reason in discussion such as these as I am aware that for many they are not really about such dispassionate things. I am also aware that there can be times where by my views are simply discounted because I try and use logic and reason in such ways, as if such things are some kind of 'mind trick' and thus whatever I say should be ignored on principal in order to protect against such 'trickery'. Having said all that here goes anyway.

In an area where there is an increase in migrant populations you will indeed naturally see an increase in migrants using services (along with an increase in migrants 'exploiting the benefits systems' or migrants engaged in criminal activity as well). Just as in an area with an increased population of ginger haired people you will see more ginger haired people using services. That is a function of the numbers of people or the numbers of people of a given group in a given area. More people = more use of service, more immigrants = more immigrant using services, more people of the ginger persuasion = more people of the ginger persuasion using services. However how sustainable provision of such services are, is not simply a function of how many people, or how many people of a given group are in a given area but actually a function of how many people there are in a given area using such services vs how many there are paying taxes that are used to support such services. There really is no evidence that migrants put a pressure on services , per head of population, to an extent that is greater than non migrants do. Actually there is much evidence that the reverse is true - certainly in the medium to long term. That is that migrant populations, per head of population actually contribute more on average to the funding of services than they cost in use of such services relative to the non migrant population.

I do understand how in a poor area, where provision of services has been hit and where there has also been large increases in immigrant populations it can feel like the former is caused by the later but just because it feels this way it does not mean that is actually true.

[turtle]

Glad you think the job is done. That clearly illustrates a gross lack of understanding. The task is just about to start and likely to go on for many many years.

Waz
Will you please stop misquoting people and pack it in please.
I and many more outers are under no illusion that the task ahead will be difficult and no I don't think the job is done...not yet anyway.

[waz-24-7]

Turtle

agreed on that one at least.

[turtle]

Waz
I not sure how many times people have to explain to you about Farage but I will try one more time.....
Nigel Farage was never going to be a part of any Brexit negotiations,...the government of the day undertake this function ..you know the government that Cameron ran away from like a coward even after saying he would respect & accept the will of the people the man is a snake and rarely spoken about in political terms anymore.
Farage was simply a campaigner albeit a very popular one so stop trying to paint him something that he isn't.

I am sure he would love to be a part of the divorce talks but they simply will not allow this so that is not his fault and the fact you think he has disappeared is a bit of a red herring from you and your hatred for him shines bright like a big 1000w bulb.

[PoshinDevon]

The old Nigel Farage argument..... If you go back to last year and the months after Brexit the remain camp kept harping on about Farage disappearing.

He was a campaigner for a Brexit, never part of the government and was never going to be a prime negotiator once the UK population voted to leave.

I am not that keen on the man, however he is still around, appearing regularly on many news interviews, chat shows and LBC - a quick google will bring up many examples. He was a passionate Brexit campaigner that's all - in no way was he ever going to be a included or involved - no party labour or conservative would allow it.

[waz-24-7]

Waz
I not sure how many times people have to explain to you about Farage but I will try one more time.....
Nigel Farage was never going to be a part of any Brexit negotiations,...the government of the day undertake this function ..you know the government that Cameron ran away from like a coward even after saying he would respect & accept the will of the people the man is a snake and rarely spoken about in political terms anymore.
Farage was simply a campaigner albeit a very popular one so stop trying to paint him something that he isn't.

I am sure he would love to be a part of the divorce talks but they simply will not allow this so that is not his fault and the fact you think he has disappeared is a bit of a red herring from you and your hatred for him shines bright like a big 1000w bulb.

Turtle,
I believe Mr Farage is the coward who has deserted your cause. This political idiot could never run the country. He hoodwinked people like you. I am amazed hat you think Mr Cameron should still be in post he lost the vote and has honourably resigned. I see absolutely no issue with that. Your discontent with Mr Cameron should be directed at Mr Farage who really has disappeared and left someone else to clear up his mess. Yes a mess. UKIP presented no plan or manifesto for BREXIT. Many simply read the slogans listened to the dribble and took the bait. Do I assume you are also unhappy with Mrs May? She has a monumental task that was not her own doing. Thank goodness it is not Mr Farage.
Is there indeed anyone you would prefer to take us through BREXIT.
Incidentally. I hold no hatred for Mr Farage. I just consider him an ultra right wing piper that has led the gullible into the pit of uncertainty and falsehood.
I am listening to Mr May right now and she is clearly patching up after Mr Farage has led the country to this sorry position of uncertainty.

[turtle]

With all due respect, it is just not true that 'many more' immigrants 'take out' from the UK than those who 'put in'. Not in terms of numbers of people or in terms of the total amounts those groups 'put in' and 'take out'. Clearly you and significant numbers of others perceive such things to be true and self evident but that does mean they are.

Try telling that to people in poorer northern towns and cities where poverty is all around if there are jobs they are low paid and there are large concentrations of immigrants creating ghetto's of non workers claiming off the state.

My sister works in a Doctor's medical centre and on a regular basis interpreters are booked to act for non speaking migrants who rarely turn up for their appointments then swan in 3 hours later with half a dozen unruly kids in tow demanding to be seen straight away which is a huge cost to the NHS.

Just walk down any high street and count the women holding pictures of some kid holding their hands out for cash begging.... very noble of their menfolk for sending them out in all weathers..... are these the people that are putting into the system and making our live richer ?

[turtle]

Turtle,
I believe Mr Farage is the coward who has deserted your cause. This political idiot could never run the country. He hoodwinked people like you. I am amazed hat you think Mr Cameron should still be in post he lost the vote and has honourably resigned. I see absolutely no issue with that. Your discontent with Mr Cameron should be directed at Mr Farage who really has disappeared and left someone else to clear up his mess. Yes a mess. UKIP presented no plan or manifesto for BREXIT. Many simply read the slogans listened to the dribble and took the bait. Do I assume you are also unhappy with Mrs May? She has a monumental task that was not her own doing. Thank goodness it is not Mr Farage.
Is there indeed anyone you would prefer to take us through BREXIT.
Incidentally. I hold no hatred for Mr Farage. I just consider him an ultra right wing piper that has led the gullible into the pit of uncertainty and falsehood.
I am listening to Mr May right now and she is clearly patching up after Mr Farage has led the country to this sorry position of uncertainty.

Waz
I give up... you simply do not read any of the posts that counter your argument.
How arrogant of you to claim the Farage hoodwinked over 17m people what an absolute twonk you are

[waz-24-7]

Turtle,
I believe Mr Farage is the coward who has deserted your cause. This political idiot could never run the country. He hoodwinked people like you. I am amazed hat you think Mr Cameron should still be in post he lost the vote and has honourably resigned. I see absolutely no issue with that. Your discontent with Mr Cameron should be directed at Mr Farage who really has disappeared and left someone else to clear up his mess. Yes a mess. UKIP presented no plan or manifesto for BREXIT. Many simply read the slogans listened to the dribble and took the bait. Do I assume you are also unhappy with Mrs May? She has a monumental task that was not her own doing. Thank goodness it is not Mr Farage.
Is there indeed anyone you would prefer to take us through BREXIT.
Incidentally. I hold no hatred for Mr Farage. I just consider him an ultra right wing piper that has led the gullible into the pit of uncertainty and falsehood.
I am listening to Mr May right now and she is clearly patching up after Mr Farage has led the country to this sorry position of uncertainty.

Waz
I give up... you simply do not read any of the posts that counter your argument.
How arrogant of you to claim the Farage hoodwinked over 17m people what an absolute twonk you are

Lighten up turtle.
I think you should read more carefully my posts.
Of course not ALL 17m people were hoodwinked. Many Brexit voters however were entirely. Some really thought Farage was going to lead the country. People voted in oblivion to the fact that no manifesto or plan was presented by UKIP. Result . The UK is in the doldrums for the next 2 years at least whilst the government negotiates. During this period rest assured the EU and other competitors will capitalise on the UK weakness. You and others should now accept the predicted uncertainty was no falsehood. The UK has signed itself into a new position without even understanding the pay deal, holiday entitlement or pension provision. Who would take such a job? Clearly you would!!
Economic performance, investment , profit and prosperity revolve around stability, certainty and planning. All currently absent in the BREXIT plan.
Whilst hope and stiff upper lip comments are encouraging.. The World is a highly competitive market place where weakness and vulnerability present opportunities for others. The uncertainty and weakness presented today is just what the rest of the competitive world will grasp with both hands.
In the last hours the automotive industry is alive with fear!! About £2000 on the cost of a UK car. Its a non starter.

[turtle]

In the last hours the automotive industry is alive with fear!! About £2000 on the cost of a UK car. Its a non starter.

Good I might be able to get down the M6 then

[PoshinDevon]

Waz 24-7 you posted:-

I am listening to Mr May right now and she is clearly patching up after Mr Farage has led the country to this sorry position of uncertainty.


Sorry but Mr Farage has never led anything apart from UKIP. He was a campaigner for the UK to leave the EU along with a host of other politicians. That is all.

Still waiting for evidence to your claim that those who voted to leave the EU were influenced by propaganda (What propaganda?) and are isolationist and xenophobic. A worrying accusation and certainly one that I am confident many who voted remain would have difficulty defending.

Article 50 has been triggered today, rather than trying to score points and predict the end of the UK as we know it, why not wait until things become clearer following negotiations - at least then we would all have some basis for discussion.

[waz-24-7]

Waz 24-7 you posted:-

I am listening to Mr May right now and she is clearly patching up after Mr Farage has led the country to this sorry position of uncertainty.


Sorry but Mr Farage has never led anything apart from UKIP. He was a campaigner for the UK to leave the EU along with a host of other politicians. That is all.

Still waiting for evidence to your claim that those who voted to leave the EU were influenced by propaganda (What propaganda?) and are isolationist and xenophobic. A worrying accusation and certainly one that I am confident many who voted remain would have difficulty defending.

Article 50 has been triggered today, rather than trying to score points and predict the end of the UK as we know it, why not wait until things become clearer following negotiations - at least then we would all have some basis for discussion.

Posh thought I had clarified that.
UKIP and their campaign had propaganda slogans and posters all over their buses. Would you like to google UKIP Brexit slogans/images.and look at images for the clear visual examples of the said propaganda. Mr Farage who has been the leading figure within the same campaign continually preached the harm, damage and threat of immigration. Take back control and close our borders propagated racial hatred, racially motivated attacks and the like for several months after the referendum result.
I am not suggesting all BREXITEERS took the same view but certainly the UKIP campaign swayed many into seeking the ideology preached by the right wing campaign of intolerance and isolationism.

Your wait and see strategy is fine for some. However the cost of this uncertainty (to us all) will not be small as UK competitors including the EU take advantage of a weakened and in the doldrums UK. It is this complete failure to have a plan or strategy that is most concerning and I can see no clear path until negotiations are completed and a strategy can be designed and implemented.
The economic basis of recession are on the cards. Weak currency and rising inflation. The Economy remains buoyant off the back of strong growth and prospect during 1st quarter 2016. Since 2008 when recession hit the UK has gathered momentum and grown well. This growth has slowed and I suspect will slow again. on the basis of the uncertainty.
Of course, I hope that I am wrong but frankly I see no one posting any forecast of substance that will indicate a growth in the UK economy.

[PoshinDevon]

Waz 24-7.......You wrote that the UK people who voted to leave the EU have chosen to follow ill guided propaganda of isolationism and xenophobia.

You did not say some UK people, a % of the UK people - you wrote the UK people. You did not clarify anything.

Your post was not only misguided but shows some worrying traits. As I said before it was a referendum to leave the EU. Both sides put forward representatives from across the political, social and even entertainment spectrum to speak and put reasons to remain or leave. Both sides put up posters and banners to support their cause.

To suggest that the leave side put out ill guided propaganda which influenced those who voted to leave to turn to isolationism and xenophobia is disturbing. If it were Nazi Germany in the 1930s you may have a point, however it was not.

There are those on both sides of the argument who have more extreme views. Off all your posts this is the one that in my opinion has shown your true feelings and thoughts about those who voted to leave. You clearly have little respect for those with differing views to yourself. On that basis it is no longer worthwhile trying to engage in rational argument and discussion.