Internet Speed

Art · Post by **Art** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 6:10 am

Can anyone explain to a technical dinosaur as to why I'm paying my provider to supply up to 20 MB but my speed test indicate 3 MB but my suppliers speed test indicate 8 MB.

Confused .com

andrew4232 · Post by **andrew4232** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 6:27 am

welcome to cyprus

helendj · Post by **helendj** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 6:44 am

Art, you are not alone!

wanderer · Post by **wanderer** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 7:05 am

In the Uk I get 100 meg of Virgin often 118 meg just upgraded me for free from 50 meg
You may ask what had this got to do with Cyprus BBC watchdog had people with fibre cable-internet achieving 8-20 meg when paying for 200 meg
This was because there was too much demand on the Virgin network in that area Universities student residences businesses etc
No doubt Erol can explain the ins and outs of the situation

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 7:29 am

Art, don't feel confused or sad, some long time ago - when the world was young - part of my job as a Network Manager involved in-depth knowledge of TCPIP (TCP/IP (Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol) is the basic communication language or protocol of the Internet. It can also be used as a communications protocol in a private network (either an intranet or an extranet) and for that I had to attend a two week course and pass a very tough exam at the end to gain qualification. As the course progressed we all had to thoroughly understand and explain IP addresses (195.1.1.1 etc), to do this you had to work in Binary! At this point I started to lag very far behind until I told the instructor that I did not understand Binary! He told me not to worry and that it would all come back to me in time. As I had never been taught or learnt Binary to start with I failed to see why it would come back but he just carried on anyway!!!

As you are already a self confessed "technical dinosaur" I think you stand little chance of understanding why your speed test shows 3Mb and the providers show 8Mb of download speed. However, here goes!

My providers speed test - just now - gave me a download speed of 6.9Mb and 10 sec's later on a second test a download speed of 8Mb - a different speed test using FAST (another speed test provision) over 3 tests in 20 seconds gave me download speeds of 4.1, 5.2 & 3.3. All of them slower than my providers speeds! I am also on a 20Mb package the same as you by the way, the key phrase in this package is "Up Too". A final test using Xfinity in Pittsburgh PA gave me Down of 8.3 and 3.8 and Up of 5.1 and 4.8 over a 30 second time span. So what does it all mean?

Simply that if you do a speed test with a site that is thousands of miles away it will provide a completely different response in speed to one which is only a few miles away! If your provider's site is in Kyrenia then it will show a faster speed (under normal conditions) to that derived from a site that is on the other side of the Island or indeed the World. I would say trust your provider's speed check and only use theirs - a comparison with another sites speed check will only lead you down the path of total confusion and unhappiness! Hope this has helped and not confused - lol.

erol · Post by **erol** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 7:50 am

Art wrote:Can anyone explain to a technical dinosaur as to why I'm paying my provider to supply up to 20 MB but my speed test indicate 3 MB but my suppliers speed test indicate 8 MB.

Confused .com

Can anyone explain why when I test my car's average speed by making a trip and timing how long the round trip takes I get different results when I do the same test but to a different destination than the first test, or even different result when making the same journey multiple times at different times of the day ?

I hope this does not come across as sarcastic for such is not my intent. My intent is to try and do my best to answer your question in as non technical manner as I can in the hope that doing so aids improved understanding.

Art · Post by **Art** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 8:04 am

Thanks.

Just a simple question.

So why is the car only doing 8 mph when it's should be 20mph.?

Art · Post by **Art** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 8:15 am

Waddo.

I'm losing the will to live!

Interestingly,

This morning ,taking my own readings we had 8mb which is great and I'm a happy bear.

It's now reading 3mb and the TV reception is awful.

And here lies the issue.

Total inconsistency but the technical boys will argue differently.

It's so disappointing from a company who I have tremendous respect for.

I'm not a happy bear.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 8:40 am

Erol, it would depend on multiple factors, such as how many donkeys were on the road, were water pipes being laid, was the original route changed to one-way, how many 4X4's were taking one child to school at the time, was it raining, was the wind blowing, how many times did you blink whilst driving, did you use cruise control, was it always the same time of day or did you try at night and the famous - how many calls did your take/make on each journey? Like yourself, I am not being sarcastic, rather just trying to inject a little humour into a situation that I understand will be most irritating to Art.

The only suggestion I can make for Art is to record - electronically - all instances, do not loose your temper with your supplier, they are trying to help, ask them to monitor your speeds for you and if they remain consistently poor by your tests, request a technician come to your location and check the equipment for themselves. It may take a few days dependent on their workload but most technicians like nothing better than to solve a problem.

Art · Post by **Art** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 9:44 am

Thanks for the good adviice Waddo but unfortunately I've already done what you have suggested.

Numerous phone calls with broken promises to call me back.
No response to an email dated 3 July.
No response to an email which I sent yesterday to the owner of the company.
This morning I used the providers speed test facility and monitored 2.9mb upload 2.1mb download.
This was reported to my provider who told me the reading was wrong,there website was faulty and I'm receiving
8.1 mb and yet my TV is still badly buffering.
My request for a technician was refused on the grounds there is nothing wrong with the signal strength so it must be a TV or Android box issue.Fact is the only time the TV buffers is when the signal strength is low !

After I put down the phone I thought I'm being totally unreasonable in complaining so don't complain again just accept what they are saying.

But I won't of course because I'm a customer paying good money for a service.

Very disappointed.

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 9:55 am

I may be wrong here - and someone is bound to correct me if that is the case, but it may be that they are only testing the connection to the receiving dish - when it is quite possible that there could be a fault on the cable leading from the dish to the house. I have had to have two new cables since being with Multimax, having experienced the same symptoms as you - albeit intermittently.

I think that the people on the helpdesk have got a certain amount of technical knowledge, but think that they actually 'know it all' and fail to pass problems on to someone who does!

Persist !!!

Muad_dib · Post by **Muad_dib** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 10:21 am

I received 2 texts from MM yesterday saying that there were technical problems with TTNET

Navek · Post by **Navek** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 10:33 am

Hi Art,
If you've got an Android Box, running Kodi, it could be clogged up, try this.

How To Stop Kodi Buffering With 3 Clicks
YouTube How To Video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dlxSIM4pgc

Once installed, go to Ares Wizard - Maintenance

Delete...
Thumbnails
Packages
Cache\Temp
This will clear all the crap out of the Kodi system.
Then go to Tweaks, following the instructions in the YouTube Video above
Good luck

More Kodi Info...
http://www.kibkomnorthcyprusforum.com/v ... 46&t=30171

MikeK · Post by **MikeK** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 11:38 am

Keithcaley wrote:I may be wrong here - and someone is bound to correct me if that is the case, but it may be that they are only testing the connection to the receiving dish - when it is quite possible that there could be a fault on the cable leading from the dish to the house. I have had to have two new cables since being with Multimax, having experienced the same symptoms as you - albeit intermittently.

I think that the people on the helpdesk have got a certain amount of technical knowledge, but think that they actually 'know it all' and fail to pass problems on to someone who does!

Persist !!!

We had to have our cable replaced due to it cracking and splitting in the heat. Before the Engineer arrived, I purchased a couple of lengths of the cheap plastic conduit and a couple of bends and laid them along the roof where the cable was lying. I asked him to feed the new cable down the conduit, I then taped that in place along the water pipes. Fortunately the rest of the cabling was in the shade. Hopefully this will help it last longer than the original cable which had only been in for two years.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 1:06 pm

MikeK, CAT5(E) as I am sure you know is a solid copper core cable - you can get the more expensive "Stranded copper core" variety but it is honestly not worth the extra funds unless you plan on moving your cables about a lot or imposing high stress bends on it, anything beyond a 33 degree bend is not good for solid core as it can break easily. Your trick of putting it inside conduit will reduce the hardening effects of UV, which is a major factor in cable breakdown in hot countries but it also introduces a possibility of water damage due to condensation inside the conduit itself. I find that 5 years is about the maximum life span of CAT 5 out here - when it is in direct sunlight - but there is nothing to say that it would not last many years longer, it is a bit of a coin toss! I have had a length of CAT 6 securely taped to a steel wire in direct sun for the past 7 years and seems as good as new so your conduit idea might be the answer. Good luck.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 1:23 pm

Art, Sorry to say but unless you can get your provider to come to your location there is little you can do. Unless of course you take the same attitude as the "Help Desk" operators that you talk to! My helpdesk operators had to work off a strict list of questions/answers in the first instance but they were all trained in network operations and had been out with my technicians on a minimum of 100 calls each before I would let them near the help desk. It makes a difference when the operator you are talking too has actually had to lay cable in the rain and snow themselves!!!

Brazen · Post by **Brazen** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 2:27 pm

I have taken several speed checks over several days because I was having problems. The speed shown by the providers speedtest results ALWAYS exceed tests with outside sources despite the same base station being used!

Art · Post by **Art** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 2:44 pm

Thanks for everyone's input.

Errol is now on the case and progress is being made.

Art

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 3:45 pm

You are more than welcome. I still think "our" provider is the best one in the North by far.

andrew4232 · Post by **andrew4232** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 6:43 pm

"Can anyone explain to a technical dinosaur as to why I'm paying my provider to supply up to 20 MB but my speed test indicate 3 MB but my suppliers speed test indicate 8 MB."

lets be honest the real answer to this question is why advertise a product what you cannot provide, we can all hide behind technical mubo jumbo and smoke screens which they think were daft enough to believe or understand and thats its just the suppliers response who are supplying these failing services trying to hudwink you into think how hard it is for them to supply if thats the case why advertise it ? i would would much prefer an honest answer i dont need super speeds during the day when am working i want to be able to come home after a hard days work and get what i have paid for

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 7:46 pm

Absolutely Andrew
Why would anyone buy services from an ISP who is offering 2mb when the next company is offering 10mb for the same price….whether you get 10 is a different matter.
I have said before ISP should be made to advertise “average” speed and not maximum speed which should give a more accurate account to customers and the internet speed can be manipulated where as a car journey from A to B can not ?
Someone mentioned Virgin in the UK,…a friend of mine has been having a right old tussle with Virgin recently as he was supposed to be getting (and paying for) 100mb and was getting around 8mb for about a week so he complained and nothing happened so he threw his toys out and low and behold as if by magic the following day he was up to 96mb……amazing really

erol · Post by **erol** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 8:06 pm

andrew4232 wrote:"Can anyone explain to a technical dinosaur as to why I'm paying my provider to supply up to 20 MB but my speed test indicate 3 MB but my suppliers speed test indicate 8 MB."

lets be honest the real answer to this question is why advertise a product what you cannot provide, we can all hide behind technical mubo jumbo and smoke screens which they think were daft enough to believe or understand and thats its just the suppliers response who are supplying these failing services trying to hudwink you into think how hard it is for them to supply if thats the case why advertise it ? i would would much prefer an honest answer i dont need super speeds during the day when am working i want to be able to come home after a hard days work and get what i have paid for

Multimax, unlike just about every other internet provider in the world, does not sell it's service based on a up to maximum theoretical speed and has not done so now for many years. Such speeds are no different from the 'top speed' on a car. No one thinks that any time they are unable to reach this maximum speed or close to it through out a given journey, that they are being 'ripped off', yet they do with internet provision and that is why we DO NOT sell our service based on such speeds, unlike all other providers.

I do not need clear and empty roads, and thus fast travel times, at times I and everyone else does not need to use the roads. I want clear and empty roads during rush hour. This is in effect what you are saying and its about as realistic an expectation with internet as it is with roads.

The truth is the vast majority of people who have 'complaints' about their internet service, over 90% I would say, are actually complaining that their TV is 'buffering' yet we do not sell a TV service and the internet was not designed for the delivery of such live TV services. So when their TV buffers people think they are not 'getting what they have paid for' from their internet provider but such a view is to fundamentally misunderstand what it is exactly you are paying for. There are TV services available here, using delivery system that were designed for such services and which are and always will be more reliable than streaming content over the internet, as I have said many many times before. But people do not want to have to pay for such services or they do not like the range of content that is available. What they want and misguidedly think they are paying their internet provider for, is exactly the content they want, regardless of if such content is or should be available here or not and with out any significant cost and when they do not get it they (some of them) start declaring that ISPs here are all liars and rip of merchants. The truth is when you come home from a hard days work and sit down to watch sky sports on your android box via mobdro or kodi, your are in fact stealing that content and when it does not work 100% of the time you then claim you are not getting what you 'paid for from your ISP. A more honest truth in my view would be that your are not getting what you are trying to steal.

It is possible that ONE of the many many possible causes for your TV buffering is something not working as it should within and under the control of your ISP but there are ALSO countless other possible causes for this same single symptom that are nothing to do with your ISP or anything under their control. At Multimax we always do our utmost to ensure that it is 'not us' that is the cause of such problems, but we get slated none the less by those who think they are 'not getting what they paid for'. We also do not, unlike some providers, ever lie about if a problem is something under our control or not. We are sometimes mistaken and it can take time to establish what the cause is of a given symptom but we NEVER say 'its not us' if we know that it is us.

It is very easy to throw around accusations that we (ISPs) are dishonest rip off merchants. What is much much harder is to provide internet access to thousand of customers in an environment like that of North Cyprus.

erol · Post by **erol** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 8:56 pm

turtle wrote:Someone mentioned Virgin in the UK,…a friend of mine has been having a right old tussle with Virgin recently as he was supposed to be getting (and paying for) 100mb and was getting around 8mb for about a week so he complained and nothing happened so he threw his toys out and low and behold as if by magic the following day he was up to 96mb……amazing really

A BT Infinity home internet connection with 'speeds' of up to 76Mbs cost around £50 pm including line rental. A BT fibre 100Mbs leased line costs around £1350 pm. Do you know or understand the difference between these two internet products, why one is 27 times, or 2700% more expensive than the other, even though the difference in 'headline speed' is only 24 % ? If you expect the £50 pm product to offer the same service or even 76% of it as the £1350 pm product. then you will indeed inevitably be disappointed. If you do not know and understand the difference then with all due respect I suspect you probably are not best placed to pontificate on what ISP's should be doing, though of course you have every right to do so regardless.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 9:18 pm

Erol,
That is exactly my point and you are correct I am not knowledgeable to know the difference as you have pointed out but can I say millions of people around the world will also be in the same situation as us laymen.....so why the hell don't you people explain it to us in laymens terms instead of giving us duff information that makes ISPs look better or offer better products than they actually do.
Take a look at the Virgin ad... http://www.virginmedia.com/shop/broadba ... lsrc=aw.ds
Now as a person wishing to buy internet does this explain what they are actually going to get as it does say you can stream and watch tv online which you say its not designed to do....well Virgin seem to disagree with you ?
You can pontificate as much as you please but the bottom line is people distrust ISPs because they simply do not deliver what they claim to .
Lets try and keep this subject non personal Erol....I know it's hard for you but please try ?

erol · Post by **erol** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 9:57 pm

turtle wrote:Erol,
That is exactly my point and you are correct I am not knowledgeable to know the difference as you have pointed out but can I say millions of people around the world will also be in the same situation as us laymen.....so why the hell don't you people explain it to us in laymens terms instead of giving us duff information that makes ISPs look better or offer better products than they actually do.
Take a look at the Virgin ad... http://www.virginmedia.com/shop/broadba ... lsrc=aw.ds
Now as a person wishing to buy internet does this explain what they are actually going to get as it does say you can stream and watch tv online which you say its not designed to do....well Virgin seem to disagree with you ?
You can pontificate as much as you please but the bottom line is people distrust ISPs because they simply do not deliver what they claim to .

I am not here to defend Virgin Media or ISP in general. In what feels like a previous life, some 15+ odd years ago before I came to live in Cyprus I worked (unpaid) for years as a internet consumer advocate in the UK, arguing against unfair practices of ISPs in the UK, some of whom went on to merge and form Virgin Internet as it exists today. The point is we were able as a non funded grass roots consumer organisation to have an impact at the highest levels (for example I met with the then minister for Trade and Industry, at her invitation and appeared countless times in media, from watchdog, to bbc news to newsnight to channel 4 news to being quoted in the times and telegraph and countless other places besides) because what we did not do is make arguments based on ignorance. We were able, as 'non professionals,' to effectively challenge the 'experts' because we took the considerable time and effort to educate ourselves. To have done other wise would have been little more than masturbation.

turtle wrote:Lets try and keep this subject non personal Erol....I know it's hard for you but please try ?

Both the irony and hypocrisy of that statement above is not lost on me. akin to saying 'please do not swear at me, you fing old cnut'.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Wed 12 Jul 2017 10:34 pm

You simply can't help yourself can you Erol......shocking behaviour from someone in your position.

teatime · Post by **teatime** » Thu 13 Jul 2017 2:04 am

"we do not sell a TV service"
Maybe not now, but you (MM) used to, I wouldn't be surprised if most people here using NTV bought it from you (MM) in the first instance.

"A more honest truth in my view would be that your are not getting what you are trying to steal."
Ah, so you (MM) were selling stolen goods, interesting.

Brazen · Post by **Brazen** » Thu 13 Jul 2017 12:28 pm

erol wrote:
andrew4232 wrote:"Can anyone explain to a technical dinosaur as to why I'm paying my provider to supply up to 20 MB but my speed test indicate 3 MB but my suppliers speed test indicate 8 MB."

lets be honest the real answer to this question is why advertise a product what you cannot provide, we can all hide behind technical mubo jumbo and smoke screens which they think were daft enough to believe or understand and thats its just the suppliers response who are supplying these failing services trying to hudwink you into think how hard it is for them to supply if thats the case why advertise it ? i would would much prefer an honest answer i dont need super speeds during the day when am working i want to be able to come home after a hard days work and get what i have paid for
Multimax, unlike just about every other internet provider in the world, does not sell it's service based on a up to maximum theoretical speed and has not done so now for many years. Such speeds are no different from the 'top speed' on a car. No one thinks that any time they are unable to reach this maximum speed or close to it through out a given journey, that they are being 'ripped off', yet they do with internet provision and that is why we DO NOT sell our service based on such speeds, unlike all other providers.

I do not need clear and empty roads, and thus fast travel times, at times I and everyone else does not need to use the roads. I want clear and empty roads during rush hour. This is in effect what you are saying and its about as realistic an expectation with internet as it is with roads.

The truth is the vast majority of people who have 'complaints' about their internet service, over 90% I would say, are actually complaining that their TV is 'buffering' yet we do not sell a TV service and the internet was not designed for the delivery of such live TV services. So when their TV buffers people think they are not 'getting what they have paid for' from their internet provider but such a view is to fundamentally misunderstand what it is exactly you are paying for. There are TV services available here, using delivery system that were designed for such services and which are and always will be more reliable than streaming content over the internet, as I have said many many times before. But people do not want to have to pay for such services or they do not like the range of content that is available. What they want and misguidedly think they are paying their internet provider for, is exactly the content they want, regardless of if such content is or should be available here or not and with out any significant cost and when they do not get it they (some of them) start declaring that ISPs here are all liars and rip of merchants. The truth is when you come home from a hard days work and sit down to watch sky sports on your android box via mobdro or kodi, your are in fact stealing that content and when it does not work 100% of the time you then claim you are not getting what you 'paid for from your ISP. A more honest truth in my view would be that your are not getting what you are trying to steal.

It is possible that ONE of the many many possible causes for your TV buffering is something not working as it should within and under the control of your ISP but there are ALSO countless other possible causes for this same single symptom that are nothing to do with your ISP or anything under their control. At Multimax we always do our utmost to ensure that it is 'not us' that is the cause of such problems, but we get slated none the less by those who think they are 'not getting what they paid for'. We also do not, unlike some providers, ever lie about if a problem is something under our control or not. We are sometimes mistaken and it can take time to establish what the cause is of a given symptom but we NEVER say 'its not us' if we know that it is us.

It is very easy to throw around accusations that we (ISPs) are dishonest rip off merchants. What is much much harder is to provide internet access to thousand of customers in an environment like that of North Cyprus.

There is actually an advert on one of your old web site pages which does promise 15mb and 20mb. Unfortunately it is in Turkish but I can remember an English version being available. When you say you haven't 'for some time' promised these high speeds you are admitting that at one time you did, so the question is, why do you no longer promise them?

erol · Post by **erol** » Thu 13 Jul 2017 1:26 pm

Brazen wrote:There is actually an advert on one of your old web site pages which does promise 15mb and 20mb. Unfortunately it is in Turkish but I can remember an English version being available. When you say you haven't 'for some time' promised these high speeds you are admitting that at one time you did, so the question is, why do you no longer promise them?

Where is this 'advert' for I can not find it ? We used to, like all other ISP (not just here but world wide) still do, tier and advertise our products based on a maximum potential speed of a connection. We no longer do so because many people misunderstood such quoted maximum potential speeds as being a 'promised' speed, which it never was and which it is not for all the other providers who still tier and advertise their products in such a way. Yet here we are still being slated for 'promising speeds which we do not deliver', when we alone do not do this and have not done so for many years, whilst all the other ISP that do still do this seemingly escape censure on this issue. As is often the case when trying to engage openly and honestly with customers and potential customers as a MM employee on forums like these, another thing that we alone do to any degree compared to other ISPs, I end up wondering why we do at all.

As for the issue re us asking customer to speedtest to a local server and not a remote one, this has nothing to do with trying to mislead customers and make them think they are getting faster speeds than they actually do, despite what some will tell you. It is simply the only sensible way to use a speed test as a diagnostic tool to determine if problems are within our network, that we control and are responsible for and can rectify or not. If you can not get more than X Mbs within our network then you will not be able to get more than X anywhere further on from that. If you can get good speeds within our network but get slow speeds when testing further afield then the cause of this is not something within our network or control.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Fri 14 Jul 2017 11:48 am

Because some people obviously do not trust MM or Erol and because some people are just too lazy to find out for themselves or think that if the argue a point for long enough they will gain satisfaction of some kind, try this this link: https://www.howtogeek.com/165321/why-yo ... w-to-tell/

It is the simplest link and explanation that I could find to act as a "Start Point" for disgruntled users. If you want a more detailed explanation, such as the difference between 10MB and 10 Mb then - just ask Google, it's all out there if you are truly interested and not just applying the Monty Python system of "I paid for a 5 minute argument". Good luck.

SatelliteCyprus · Post by **SatelliteCyprus** » Fri 14 Jul 2017 1:03 pm

The ISP in question is suffering customer wrath because a few years ago, when they started in business, they raised their customer's expectations (as far as internet speed/bandwidth is concerned) beyond that which is 'regularly' achievable. I remember pointing this out on this forum several times, but as a 'competitor', my comments were viewed as sour grapes.

At the beginning, with fewer customers, speeds were better, but now, as their network is 'more' populated, it 'seems' that they are only able to supply the same 'speed' as the other of the 'bigger' ISPs. Although, several other 'newer' companies have popped up recently (and others have changed their name(s)) who have also started to offer 'silly' speeds which they will not be able to deliver (say) 80% of the time.

What 'also' doesn't help their cause, is that there is a clutch of their customers who regularly comment on this forum, indicating that they are receiving 'massive' speeds. When 'other' existing customers see these comments, they must wonder why they are not receiving the same and must surely 'expect' to receive the same. The truth of the matter is that speed tests are not a 'true' indication of an internet connection's performance and to rely on them as such is misguided.

Where you live in relation to the base station and the distance that it is from the NOC affects the speed of your Internet connection, as does the distances involved, but by far, the 'most' important factor to take into account, is the amount of customers who are using the internet at the time that you want to use it.

If you want to have a 'dedicated' speed 'all' the time, you need to have different (more expensive) equipment fitted on your roof and at the base station (a point-to-point link, not a point-to-multi-point link) and you will need to pay considerably more for the connection than you do at the moment. You will 'possibly' need to go onto a business (or similar) tariff for dedicated bandwidth. The cost (compared to a household connection) is far greater.

I do not believe that customers do 'not' understand this, it is merely convenient for them to say that they don't so that they have a basis for their complaint, but really, I think that 'all' sensible people understand the principle(s) involved. Nevertheless, the majority of customers seem quite prepared to accept the claims that ISPs (and 'most' other types of business) make without reading, or even looking at the exclusion clauses in their terms and conditions of sale.

In general, 1.2 to 2 Mbps of 'constant' internet bandwidth is needed to watch UKTV so, if your TV is buffering (there can be other causes of buffering), it is 'likely' that you are receiving 'less' than 1.2Mbps of 'constant' Internet bandwidth.

Here is something that the ISPs will not tell you. If you sign up for 3 Mbps of Internet Bandwidth (with us, that costs 799 TL per year (£15 per month)), not only will you have enough Internet Bandwidth to watch UK TV (80 % of the time), but at times when the internet is busy and the customers who are paying for 8, 10, 15, 20 Mbps, or higher connections but are only receiving 3 Mbps (guess what) so will you !

All ISPs promise to supply a 'Best Effort' speed and 'usually' say so in their Terms and Conditions. If you didn't read them or even look at them before you signed up, there is only one person to blame.

erol · Post by **erol** » Fri 14 Jul 2017 3:01 pm

SatelliteCyprus wrote:The ISP in question is suffering customer wrath because a few years ago, when they started in business, they raised their customer's expectations (as far as internet speed/bandwidth is concerned) beyond that which is 'regularly' achievable. I remember pointing this out on this forum several times, but as a 'competitor', my comments were viewed as sour grapes.

Multimax raised customer expectations because they raised the levels of service provided, principally in terms of speeds but in other areas as well. We did indeed raise expectations beyond those that were set by the company that you are an agent for and what you call 'regularly achievable'. It is undoubtedly the case that If Multimax had never been created then average speeds across all providers in North Cyprus would today be lower than they are as a result. Multimax drove and continues to drive the market to the benefit of all internet user in North Cyprus, those that use MM and those who use other services. So yes it is hard to see your criticism of MM for achieving this as little more than 'sour grapes' given your position as a competitor to Multimax.

SatelliteCyprus wrote:At the beginning, with fewer customers, speeds were better, but now, as their network is 'more' populated, it 'seems' that they are only able to supply the same 'speed' as the other of the 'bigger' ISPs.

This is exactly the kind of propaganda and misinformation you specialise in Paul. It would 'seem' to be your real core skill as far as I can tell. The simple truth is that when MM first started is was consistently delivering faster speeds to the majority of it's customers the majority of the time than the competition was and today the average speed our customers get is higher now that it was back then and we are still consistently delivering faster speeds to the majority of our customers the majority of the time than the competition, though I would conceded that the difference today is probably not as large as it was when MM first started. This idea that it was 'fast' when we had very few customers and slow now it has more is just total bollocks. It was bollocks when you said it back when MM first started and it is still bollocks today. It is not true. Just like all decent ISPs we do and have increased the overall capacity of our network at all points as both customer numbers increase and as usage per customers increase. Just as Extend no doubt does as well. We still deliverer faster speeds on average to our customers than your company does Paul, I know it, you know and many many customers know it.

SatelliteCyprus wrote:What 'also' doesn't help their cause, is that there is a clutch of their customers who regularly comment on this forum, indicating that they are receiving 'massive' speeds. When 'other' existing customers see these comments, they must wonder why they are not receiving the same and must surely 'expect' to receive the same.

Multimax is unashamed and proud to tell it's customers that some customers will get significantly faster speeds than others, based on factors like their distance and clear line of sight from their specific location to our base stations and other factors. We could easily make our service more consistent across all customers by doing what Extend and all other ISP do - namely to artificially limit those customer who ARE able to get fast speeds to a lowest common denominator set by those who, because of their location, are not able to reach such speed. To artificially limit the speed of those customers that can go faster (because of their location relative to BS etc) when such extra usage adds no additional cost to providing the service is madness. It is like saying because some people live on roads with a 30 mph speed limit, those that live on roads with a 100 mph speed limit should be reduced to 30 mph as well - so that everyone is 'equal'. Mulitmax does NOT do this. If you location allows fast speeds and at times when such additional usage does not impact either other users or the cost of providing the service, then Multimax does not artificially limit speeds. This is the biggest (but not only) difference between MM and other providers and is a major part as to why on average we provide faster speeds to the majority of our customers the majority of the time than companies like Extend.

Brazen · Post by **Brazen** » Fri 14 Jul 2017 3:07 pm

erol wrote:
Brazen wrote:There is actually an advert on one of your old web site pages which does promise 15mb and 20mb. Unfortunately it is in Turkish but I can remember an English version being available. When you say you haven't 'for some time' promised these high speeds you are admitting that at one time you did, so the question is, why do you no longer promise them?
Where is this 'advert' for I can not find it ? We used to, like all other ISP (not just here but world wide) still do, tier and advertise our products based on a maximum potential speed of a connection. We no longer do so because many people misunderstood such quoted maximum potential speeds as being a 'promised' speed, which it never was and which it is not for all the other providers who still tier and advertise their products in such a way. Yet here we are still being slated for 'promising speeds which we do not deliver', when we alone do not do this and have not done so for many years, whilst all the other ISP that do still do this seemingly escape censure on this issue. As is often the case when trying to engage openly and honestly with customers and potential customers as a MM employee on forums like these, another thing that we alone do to any degree compared to other ISPs, I end up wondering why we do at all.

As for the issue re us asking customer to speedtest to a local server and not a remote one, this has nothing to do with trying to mislead customers and make them think they are getting faster speeds than they actually do, despite what some will tell you. It is simply the only sensible way to use a speed test as a diagnostic tool to determine if problems are within our network, that we control and are responsible for and can rectify or not. If you can not get more than X Mbs within our network then you will not be able to get more than X anywhere further on from that. If you can get good speeds within our network but get slow speeds when testing further afield then the cause of this is not something within our network or control.

Just google multimax and select 'multi max girne' and the advert should show up.

erol · Post by **erol** » Fri 14 Jul 2017 3:32 pm

Brazen wrote: Just google multimax and select 'multi max girne' and the advert should show up.

OK I see what you mean now. This image of a years old flyer has been put there by google , not us. We can not control what images Google decide to put on their description of us until we 'claim' the business via Googles process to do so, which I will do but will probably takes some time as to verify I am entitled to do they will send a letter via normal mail to the address listed and that will take time. Thanks for pointing this out to us.

SatelliteCyprus · Post by **SatelliteCyprus** » Sat 15 Jul 2017 9:50 am

It seems that some of your customers do not agree with your claims :-

https://www.google.com.cy/search?q=mult ... 29998bf,1,

eXtend Broadband has 'very' slightly better results, but they are still nothing to brag about :-

https://www.google.com.cy/search?q=exte ... 8168f5d,1,

BUT they have been established for far longer AND charge 'about' half the price AND provide 'unlimited' Internet bandwidth without 'total' throughput restrictions on their 'Standard' 3 and 4 Mbit Internet connections (799TL and 949TL per year with FREE installation on annual contracts.) That is why we are agents for their service and have worked with them for the last 7 years PLUS 'we' are in control of customer service for 'our' customers. That doesn't mean that we are perfect and I'm sure that someone will be along shortly to say that BUT we do understand the 'needs' of our customers and do not criticize them for 'wanting' to watch TV on the Internet. Remember, that to watch UK TV on the Internet only requires 1.2 to 2Mbps of constant Internet Bandwidth. Presumably therefore, complaining clients of any of the ISPs (who can't watch UK TV on their systems) are receiving less than 1.2Mbps of Internet Bandwidth. They are 'bound' to be upset by this, especially when (in their opinion) they are paying for a 'Premium' service.

Any ISP who is charging for a 'Premium' service and delivering much the same as 'all' the other ISPs is bound to have unhappy customers. Especially when the alternative suppliers are about half the price.

British clients just want to watch UK TV (in the same way that Turkish Cypriots living in the UK want to watch Turkish TV) - in my opinion, they are not doing anything wrong in wanting to watch 'their' favourite TV channels in 'whatever' Country and any customer, or 'potential' customer who feels that they have been accused of doing something wrong by 'wanting' to do this (especially when their supplier offers this as part of their service) in my opinion, is bound and 'entitled' to be upset.

As the longest established 'Independent' agent for Internet and various other services and products and the winner of eXtend Broadband's "Reseller of the Year Award", we are in a unique position - it is in 'our' interests to make sure that our clients are happy and can watch UK TV on the Internet and being an agent for 'so' many clients with eXtend, it is in their interests to keep us happy. We we are their fiercest critics and our efforts regularly lead to improvements in the service that is offered in certain areas. Customers who are experiencing problems can use us as an intermediary (it doesn't cost any extra) and we follow through and get results for them :-

http://www.kibkomnorthcyprusforum.com/v ... 70#p180670

erol · Post by **erol** » Sat 15 Jul 2017 10:54 am

SatelliteCyprus wrote: Presumably therefore, complaining clients of any of the ISPs (who can't watch UK TV on their systems) are receiving less than 1.2Mbps of Internet Bandwidth.

SatelliteCyprus wrote:Laura B's problem was not with the amount of Internet Bandwidth that was available to her (from her ISP),....

Anyone who tries to lead people to believe that they can watch UK TV here via the internet with a similar level of reliability as if they were using a broadcast system designed for such delivery, as long as their ISP is delivering 1.5 - 2 Mbs is bullshitting people and creating expectations that can not be met. Requiring a constant 1.5Mbs - 2Mbs throughout not just your ISP's network but also through all the global links, operated by multiple different entities is just ONE of many requirements that need to be met in order for such to work reliably. Using the internet to stream TV is a compromise option where you trade reliability for flexibility and cost. Anyone who tells you or tries to lead you to believe otherwise is lying to you,

Laura B · Post by **Laura B** » Sat 15 Jul 2017 10:56 am

Just have to say we have had excellent service from both Satellite Cyprus and Extend. Can watch TV every day and evening if we want to with no problem at all.

erol · Post by **erol** » Sat 15 Jul 2017 11:17 am

Laura B wrote:Just have to say we have had excellent service from both Satellite Cyprus and Extend. Can watch TV every day and evening if we want to with no problem at all.

Laura B in April wrote:We are with Extend and have the same buffering issues in the evening. Extend have told us it is all due to Turkey and Turk Telecom.

The point I am trying to make is you can watch TV (over the internet) "every day and evening" with "no problem at all", right up to the moment you can not, even if your ISP is working perfectly. This is what people who are using or thinking of using internet based TV need to understand, if expectations are not to be raised to a level that can not be met.

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Sat 15 Jul 2017 1:41 pm

Seems to me the customer must make a choice and pay the money.

TV via a standard internet package is possible. However; if you are a tv addict and cannot bear to miss your favourite soap etc then this cannot and should not be relied upon. It may well work perfectly adequately 80% of the time but just when you really want it to work it will not. As Erol has said those that profess tv via the internet with say 2Mb speed will work all the time are in fact conning people. It will not be 100% reliable.

You can of course go to the next level and pay substantially more for a dedicated point to point connection with a greater speed. This may satisfy nearly all your requirements, until something happens further down the link.

Or you could pay up and go for a satellite based system which in the main is probably the most reliable however sometimes even this system is subject to the vagaries of the weather.

As I see it a lot of the problems are around those being taken in by claims that a standard ISP package is sufficient to deliver tv to your home - it is not. For us we have a standard Internet service from an ISP. We are not tv geeks and usually stream from various apps on our tablets via google chrome cast to our tv. It is sufficient for us and we accept that at times it is subject to buffering or may not work at all. My passion is to watch live streaming of football games from my lowly football team. This season for overseas viewers the facility to watch the game live via a VPN has been introduced - I have to pay for the privilege of course.

There is the crux - some people want everything for not a lot and will moan if they cannot have it. Given the situation of North Cyprus, the difficulties in providing an internet service and the infrastructure in place I really cannot get to excited when I cannot watch tv via the internet.Overall the service received in my opinion is very good.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sat 15 Jul 2017 2:25 pm

Oh dear ... looks like the old feud has flared up again ?...... here's a blast from the past..

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/66209.asp

Laura B · Post by **Laura B** » Sat 15 Jul 2017 2:40 pm

Erol I would just like to point out that after I had that problem in April and couldn't really get an answer from Extend, Satellite Cyprus offered to help which they did and ever since then we have had excellent service. I can only speak as I find and I am not entering into any technical argument with anyone.

SatelliteCyprus · Post by **SatelliteCyprus** » Sat 15 Jul 2017 3:42 pm

Posh in Devon - please can you point out where I have said that Internet TV works 'all' the time.

Secondly, a 'constant' 2 Mbps is enough to watch UKTV on the Internet (the 'qualifying word in this statement is "constant")

Next a "Standard" package is perfectly OK to watch UK TV and we have lots of customers who are doing so.

No-one is being "conned" by any ISP and to even introduce this word (especially without checking - reading the posts in full) is (at best) negligent/reckless

Erol has a track record of putting words into people's mouths. My advice to you is to 'fully' read a thread before offering your advice.

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/306

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/speed_checker_online

erol · Post by **erol** » Sat 15 Jul 2017 4:15 pm

If a company claims that an internet TV based service "Only requires a (minimum) 2Mbps internet connection" how likely is it that a non technical person would consider that to mean that as long as your ISP is delivering 2Mbs or more the service will work and therefore when it does not work that means the cause must be that their ISP is not delivering 2Mbs ?

Now the truth.

Your ISP can be working perfectly. It can be delivering 2Mbs or 4 Mbs or 20 or 40 or 100 Mbs and yet at times still the TV service will not work as it should. Sure if your ISP is not delivering 2Mbs then that can be one of the many many possible reasons why the TV service is affected but to make out that is the ONLY requirement is imo seriously misleading and guaranteed to raise expectations beyond that which is physically possible to deliver.

SatelliteCyprus · Post by **SatelliteCyprus** » Sat 15 Jul 2017 4:35 pm

Erol, you 'too' have omitted the word "constant" and on top of that, you are now raising a different question.

If your ISP is 'not' delivering a 'constant' 2Mbps of Internet Bandwidth, your Internet TV will 'definitely' not work.

I think that everyone also understands that, if they are, but the streaming service that they are using has a problem, or there is a problem anywhere in between, that the Internet TV will also, 'definitely' not work.

If you look at what I 'actually' said:

"In general, 1.2 to 2 Mbps of 'constant' internet bandwidth is needed to watch UKTV so, if your TV is buffering (there can be other causes of buffering), it is 'likely' that you are receiving 'less' than 1.2Mbps of 'constant' Internet bandwidth."

Inclusion of the word 'likely' AND (there can be other causes of buffering) covers the scenario that you 'now' raise and 'fully' qualifies the statement which I standby

In my experience, before they contact their ISP, customers usually telephone a friend and ask them whether they are having a problem and if they are not, they know that the 'Source' and or, 'Route' is OK and that the problem lies closer to home. Customers are 'not' as you 'seem' to be implying 'stupid'. The customers who have joined in this thread are not confused about this, they are wondering why a 10, 15, 20 Mbps Internet connection does not reliably let their Internet TV work.

davedee · Post by **davedee** » Sat 15 Jul 2017 4:49 pm

No Monthly, Quarterly or Annual Payment !
Why should you pay for Live UK TV that is freely available elsewhere ? Apart from the initial purchase price, this really is zero cost TV.
• Watch all the UK's 'main' free to air channels - LIVE
BBC 1, BBC2, BBC 3, BBC 4, CBeebies, CBBC, BBC News, BBC Parliament, ITV 1, ITV 2, ITV 3, ITV 4, ITV +1, ITV 2 +1, ITV 3 +1, ITV 4 +1, Channel 4, More 4, E4, Channel 5, Dave, Yesterday, Pick TV, Quest, Really, 5 USA, CBS Reality, CBS Reality +1, CBS Drama.

I thought there was now a charge for this.

SatelliteCyprus · Post by **SatelliteCyprus** » Sat 15 Jul 2017 5:11 pm

davedee - yes, this 'Invitation to Treat' needs removing from our web site and advertising, not least because we do not wish to accept the 'Offers' that it generates from customers.

Thankfully, most people understand that, as (since 1st May) Filmon have charged for 'continuous' access to TV Channels and that, as there are much better 'paid for' options available that include more channels, a better picture quality and 2 weeks catchup, that we no longer wish to offer their free service.

erol · Post by **erol** » Sat 15 Jul 2017 5:15 pm

SatelliteCyprus wrote:Erol, you 'too' have omitted the word "constant"

I omitted nothing. What I did was quote verbatim from the 'headline' on your own companies website.

SatelliteCyprus wrote:I think that everyone also understands that, if they are, but the streaming service that they are using has a problem, or there is a problem anywhere in between, that the Internet TV will also, 'definitely' not work.

No many people do not understand that. We constantly get calls and mails to our support staff along the lines of 'my TV is not working therefore you must be failing to deliver 2Mbs to us' even when in reality we are delivering far far in excess 2Mbs and we demonstrate this to the custopmer. This is not an isolated occurrence - it is typical.

SatelliteCyprus wrote:The customers who have joined in this thread are not confused about this, they are wondering why a 10, 15, 20 Mbps Internet connection does not reliably let their Internet TV work.

Yes and the answer your are giving them - namely that it is because or most probably because their ISP is not delivering such speeds to them is incomplete, misleading pejorative and self serving, as is typically the case with your posts in my experience.

Clearly Paul you have a vested self interest in creating an impression that any time someones streaming internet TV service is not working it is because their ISP is failing to deliver the 'promised speeds' because you know that on average MM delivers faster speeds to the majority of it's customers the majority of the time than Extend does, so it suits your agenda to push this misleading propaganda as you have done for the day MM started trading till now. From the moment Multimax first appeared (thanks for that blast from the past btw turlte) you have tried to make out that it's offering of speeds in excess of those that Extend offers were not 'realistic' and were 'deceptions' and that any MM customers that showed otherwise were rare atypical 'exceptions' and that most MM customers would only get speeds the same as Extend. For years you have been pushing these lies and you continue to do so today. Yet you, or at least Extend must KNOW that this is not true from the hard data they have at their disposal. Extend run a speedtest.net server. Any time someone does a speedtest to that server Extend get a record of what ISP that customer was using and what results they got. Producing stats from this data that show the average speed that MM customers are getting when testing vs that of Extend or Nethouse or other companies in any given period of time is trivial. I know what this hard data shows, you know what this hard data shows and yet still you persist with your lies and distortions. If your claim that "it 'seems' that they (MM) are only able to supply the same 'speed' as the other of the 'bigger' ISPs." is true than I challenge your to prove this by publishing the hard data that Extend has that would back up this claim if it was true. Of course you will not do this because the claim is not true and we both know it.

SatelliteCyprus · Post by **SatelliteCyprus** » Sat 15 Jul 2017 5:29 pm

Erol, might it not be better to quote from the words that I have posted in this thread - after all, that is what the Members are reading ?

'Maybe' your customers are confused by the fact that you introduced many of them to their TV systems and find it difficult to understand that you are not in control of their 'whole' (both) systems (Internet and TV) ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_DPVPGWnsA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIVRMOV6E5s

You are reading a lot into the words that I have posted here, some readers 'may' think that it is 'you' who is causing confusion. I doubt that anything that I have written here has confused anyone (except you) I think that readers will 'easily' follow what I have said.

I have answered the main allegation in my previous post, please read it and also, please show some respect to the customers who have complained about your service and spend the time that you are wasting on me, answering and helping them

erol · Post by **erol** » Sat 15 Jul 2017 5:49 pm

SatelliteCyprus wrote: please show some respect to the customers who have complained about your service and spend the time that you are wasting on me, answering and helping them

The Multimax customer who was having problems and who started this thread (at 7.10am on Wed July 12th) was helped and will continue to be helped as long as such is necessary and who posted on the thread that they were being helped (at 4.45pm Wed July 12th) all long before you decided to come on the thread and share your 'wisdom' (pejorative self serving distortions as far as I am concerned) and started telling us what everyone 'understands'.

SatelliteCyprus wrote:I doubt that anything that I have written here has confused anyone

Your claim that "it 'seems' that they (MM) are only able to supply the same 'speed' as the other of the 'bigger' ISPs." is not true. It is a "pejorative self serving distortion". What is more Extend have years worth of hard data that shows it is not true. You know it and I know it. Why not publish this data if your claim is true Paul ?

SatelliteCyprus · Post by **SatelliteCyprus** » Sat 15 Jul 2017 6:23 pm

Erol, in this thread and at the link that has been provided, some of your customers 'seem' to disagree with you on the main point of your argument AND I am sure that potential customers will attach 'more' credibility to what they say than anything you or I say.

You 'appear' to be upset by this, but taking out your frustration on me is not enhancing your reputation. I can understand why you would want to shift the focus and you 'seem' to have succeeded in doing that, but I really do not understand why you have 'interpreted' what I 'have' said in the way that you have.

I want to sum up now, but I do not want to even 'slightly' change anything that I have said which I stand by completely, but in a nutshell, all that I have said 'really' is that all the bigger ISPs are much the same and the evidence from the comments of your customers 'seems' to back that up.

I don't think that there is anything to be gained by continuing with 'our' discussion and therefore, may I respectfully suggest that we call it a draw !

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