Closing the border

terry2366 · Post by **terry2366** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 10:15 am

In the unlikely event of the south closing the border how would this affect eu citizens . Would they be allowed to cross on foot or through the SBA ? Or would we have no access.

silverfox1 · Post by **silverfox1** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 10:21 am

Scaremongering!!

terry2366 · Post by **terry2366** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 10:42 am

No asking a simple question after an article in the mail. If it upsets you why answer?

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 11:07 am

The original post raises an interesting legal point. However, how many users of this forum are likely to have either the legal background of international law or are privy to likely possibilities of whatever party in the RoC is in power when, or if any, such a decision was taken? I guess terry2366 will receive opinions as answers, but little fact.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 11:10 am

Because of free movement regulations and the green line regulations they cant stop EU nationals entering or leaving without upsetting Brussels.
http://www.kibkomnorthcyprusforum.com/v ... egulations

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 12:04 pm

That would be entering by a recognised port of entry - so the next question is: Do the RoC view the crossing points as a recognised port of entry given that it is a crossing from an unrecognised country? I understand that is why mainland Turkish people are not allowed to cross at the crossing points but are allowed to enter the RoC by recognised ports of entry. I think that the RoC won't give a fig about upsetting Brussels anyway, there are already many things they do and don't do that are under discussion with Brussels, a few EU citizens being made to wait at the crossing points whilst that is sorted out will not even make the headlines in CT - lol.

terry2366 · Post by **terry2366** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 1:53 pm

Would going through the SBA be a possibility ? I ask purely for interest as I do not think even the GC would deprive thier retailers of 19 million pounds a year from the TC plus what all the expats spend.

elizabeth · Post by **elizabeth** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 1:57 pm

http://www.lgcnews.com/retailers-in-sou ... ers-close/

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 2:27 pm

The Sovereign Base Areas are after all military installations - I doubt the British Government would be very happy about them being used as a crossing point, even by their own citizens. As a matter of interest does anyone now the regulations currently for anyone wanting to cross into an SBA from eithe side?

This question is likely to be of more practical import after the full implementation of Brexit when UK citizens are no longer part of the EU. The attitude of the so called R oC will be of considerable interest then!

erol · Post by **erol** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 2:44 pm

waddo wrote:That would be entering by a recognised port of entry -

This whole question has been tested in the RoC own courts and they decided that no sanction could be imposed on an EU citizen for having entered Cyprus via an illegal port of entry because of the Green line agreements between the EU and the RoC.

http://cyprus-mail.com/2016/08/03/view- ... s-amusing/

The parties may have forgotten that a Greek Cypriot who had travelled through Ercan during the Tassos Papadopoulos presidency was charged, tried and acquitted because the EU’s green line regulation stipulated that EU citizens were free to cross over, regardless of the point of entry they used.

The RoC also agreed that the Green Line regulations can not be unilateral amended by the RoC.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 4:12 pm

And of course we all trust them to do exactly what they say. I wonder if the border crossing staff have been told?

Hilltop · Post by **Hilltop** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 4:14 pm

Ragged Robin wrote:The Sovereign Base Areas are after all military installations - I doubt the British Government would be very happy about them being used as a crossing point, even by their own citizens. As a matter of interest does anyone now the regulations currently for anyone wanting to cross into an SBA from eithe side?

This question is likely to be of more practical import after the full implementation of Brexit when UK citizens are no longer part of the EU. The attitude of the so called R oC will be of considerable interest then!

There are two very busy crossing points into the ESBA, I have used them both hundreds of times and will continue to do so even after the opening of Dherynia (if it ever happens).
The regulations are exactly the same as for any of the other crossings (but the staff are invariably pleasant).

Rosehillgirl · Post by **Rosehillgirl** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 4:57 pm

silverfox1 wrote:Scaremongering!!

I lived in the TRNC before and after the border opened-and the RoC joined the EU.

At first they would only let TC's cross into the South. They refused UK Citizens entry as they said that we had entered the island illegally (ie through Ercan-the only way to get there apart from the ferry from Turkey).

The EU forced them to let us cross back and forth. They told the RoC government that they had no right to refuse entry to an EU Citizen-as they were now an EU country. THEY HAD TO LET US IN-THEY HAD NO CHOICE.

It's anyone's guess as to what will happen when we no longer have the right as an EU citizen to cross. It's their choice-we will have no rights.

I believe the RoC will use it to their political advantage-to damage to TRNC economy (as well as impacting upon their own).

Why is it that Brexiters always accuse people of 'Scaremongering' when asking a valid question or raising some concerns?

Rosie

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 5:16 pm

Rosie, possibly because they don't know the answer to a question, therefore they just try to avoid it by diversion, who would know? Who cares anyway, the deal has been done and now we just wait and see how trustworthy the Government is - lol. Once we are no longer EU citizens, unlike our TC friends, I think they will just turn us all away - who could we complain to anyway? I also think many things in the North will change before Brexit has any impact on us so just wait and see, don't worry!

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 5:48 pm

I think closing the green line would only help the TRNC cause.
We now know that the ROC has angered the UN with its inflexibility and bitterness towards the TC's and my opinion is the TRNC (with the help of Turkey) would have to find new ways of surviving and one of them would be independence. Bring it on I say.

erol · Post by **erol** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 5:51 pm

EU citizens can cross the Green Line regardless of which port that person may have used to enter Cyprus prior to that. Non EU citizens can cross the Green line regardless of which port that person may have used to enter Cyprus prior to that crossing. The only issue for Non EU citizens is if they require a visa or not , for entry in to Cyprus via any means or route. All this has been 'tested' in RoC courts in the years since the crossing opened. It is in the interests of the RoC to keep this issue surrounded by FUD (fear uncertainty doubt) when in fact this has been the consistent case since the RoC joined the EU.

The only change the UK leaving the EU will make to crossing in Cyprus. as it has operated since the RoC joined the EU, is if Cyprus (or EU) decides to require UK citizens to have a visa to enter Cyprus, which is possible but unlikely imo.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 6:00 pm

Ref msg 7 on SBA passage. The only definitive answer would have to be addressed to either HQ BFC or perhaps the BHC. All other opinions are just that and not fact. Perhaps terry2366 could make an enquiry as he/she posed the question twice!

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 6:08 pm

Rosehillgirl wrote:
silverfox1 wrote:Scaremongering!!
Why is it that Brexiters always accuse people of 'Scaremongering' when asking a valid question or raising some concerns?

Rosie

Not sure were you get Brexiteers connection from the original post was regarding EU nationals.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 6:59 pm

Kerry,
Everything is the fault of Brexit.....or so it seems

Rosehillgirl · Post by **Rosehillgirl** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 7:20 pm

kerry 6138 wrote:
Rosehillgirl wrote:
silverfox1 wrote:Scaremongering!!
Why is it that Brexiters always accuse people of 'Scaremongering' when asking a valid question or raising some concerns?

Rosie
Not sure were you get Brexiteers connection from the original post was regarding EU nationals.

Perhaps you would like to explain what the original question is about then?

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 9:22 pm

Just how many holiday makers from the UK visit Cyprus for their holidays? Just how much financial damage would it cause the Cyprus tourist industry if UK citizens have to have a visa? How many GC's visit the UK and how would they like it if they had to have a visa? Just a thought.

kerry 6138 · Post by **kerry 6138** » Mon 14 Aug 2017 9:44 pm

terry2366 wrote:In the unlikely event of the south closing the border how would this affect eu citizens . Would they be allowed to cross on foot or through the SBA ? Or would we have no access.

perhaps rosehill girl you should ask terry 2366 the question has you can see specifically states eu citizens.

terry2366 · Post by **terry2366** » Tue 15 Aug 2017 9:18 am

Right I asked if in the unlikely event of closure eu citizens could cross or come to that could anyone cross. I cannot see this happening as it would cause a massive problem for them . There are approximately 19 different eu states with countrymen ( and women phew ) living here. So a hypothetical question not intending to upset any snowflakes or lemmings among us. Incidentally Rosie I did vote to leave well spotted.

erol · Post by **erol** » Tue 15 Aug 2017 9:43 am

terry2366 wrote:Right I asked if in the unlikely event of closure eu citizens could cross or come to that could anyone cross.

So as I understand it you are asking, in the unlikely event that the green line crossings close, would anyone be able to cross the green line ? Seems to me a strange question but maybe I am misunderstanding ? Like asking in the unlikely event that MacDonalds close, would anyone still be able to get MacDonalds ?

I am confused.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Tue 15 Aug 2017 10:01 am

erol, it is not an exclusive club (I am confused) you have just joined - lol.

Rosehillgirl · Post by **Rosehillgirl** » Tue 15 Aug 2017 3:28 pm

Hector wrote:Just how many holiday makers from the UK visit Cyprus for their holidays? Just how much financial damage would it cause the Cyprus tourist industry if UK citizens have to have a visa? How many GC's visit the UK and how would they like it if they had to have a visa? Just a thought.

Hi Hector.

The issue of EU visa's post Brexit is already being planned. It was in many UK papers last week. They are starting to develop the software to run the system.

The plan is to issue a two year visa which would cover all of the EU countries (all 27). This is similar to the ESTA visa purchased to visit the USA-which also lasts two years (or it did).

They said that it would be purchased online the same as an ESTA US visa and the cost would be somewhere in between 10-25 Euro-no-one knows for sure.

It didn't specify how long you would be able to visit for-the US the visa is a maximum of sixth months. They have an online Visa for Turkey but that is 90 in any 180 days. It's not a problem for holidaymakers so it shouldn't pose a problem for anyone wanting to visit or holiday in any EU country.

You won't be able to set up residence in any EU country without a Residence Permit.

Post March '19 the UK passport will not guarantee the right to enter or reside in any EU country without a visa or permit.

Rosie

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Tue 15 Aug 2017 3:58 pm

Wonderful news, now it will cost me 10 - 25 Euros to travel 25 yards and pay another 25 Euros if I take my car - 50 euros to go and give the GC's my hard earned - nah!!

terry2366 · Post by **terry2366** » Tue 15 Aug 2017 4:54 pm

I cannot ne'er stand your confusion Erol if McDonald's closes go to Burger King. All I asked was simply if the border is closed by the roc. Is our ney way out by ferry or Ercan . Or will eu citizens still be able to cross the green line to the south. Now does that make sense or are you still confused? I think I asked a smile question and was not expecting the UN or the security council involvement. Maybe if you can't answer the question don't post just let it die ffs.

erol · Post by **erol** » Tue 15 Aug 2017 5:05 pm

terry2366 wrote:I cannot ne'er stand your confusion Erol if McDonald's closes go to Burger King. All I asked was simply if the border is closed by the roc. Is our ney way out by ferry or Ercan . Or will eu citizens still be able to cross the green line to the south. Now does that make sense or are you still confused? I think I asked a smile question and was not expecting the UN or the security council involvement. Maybe if you can't answer the question don't post just let it die ffs.

Well forgive for reading what you wrote and taking the time and effort to bother trying to understand it. And no I still do not understand what you are asking but now I no longer care given how your post above makes me feel.

jayceebee · Post by **jayceebee** » Tue 15 Aug 2017 5:09 pm

waddo wrote:Wonderful news, now it will cost me 10 - 25 Euros to travel 25 yards and pay another 25 Euros if I take my car - 50 euros to go and give the GC's my hard earned - nah!!

But the initial 10 -25 Euros for the "visa" will only be paid once every two years....not much to lay out for that period?

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Tue 15 Aug 2017 5:13 pm

Terry2366, I wrote this before I saw Erol's post, but I'll let it stand, regardless (although Erol may not thank me!)

What erol meant (I think) was this: -

If the borders are closed, then they are closed - and if something is closed, then nothing and nobody gets through...

It's a semantic thing, get it?

If your question was meant to be something else, then I'm really sorry, but you didn't ask it

terry2366 · Post by **terry2366** » Tue 15 Aug 2017 6:48 pm

Keith they are in the eu citizens from the eu live here lots of them. If they close the border would there be an outcry from the eu ?
If it's closed would we be allowed to use the SBA for access as it does not come under the roc this answer I hope to get from a senior officer later this month .the facto that if it's closed it's closed does not answer my question as it would be against the eu rule and the UN green line regs. This is point I'm asking about . They may just close it to non eu travel surely .

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Tue 15 Aug 2017 6:53 pm

terry2366 wrote:In the unlikely event of the south closing the border how would this affect eu citizens . Would they be allowed to cross on foot or through the SBA ? Or would we have no access.

If they close the crossing points why would anyone want to travel south.....are you all mad ?

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Tue 15 Aug 2017 7:12 pm

terry2366 wrote:Keith they are in the eu citizens from the eu live here lots of them. If they close the border would there be an outcry from the eu ?
If it's closed would we be allowed to use the SBA for access as it does not come under the roc this answer I hope to get from a senior officer later this month .the facto that if it's closed it's closed does not answer my question as it would be against the eu rule and the UN green line regs. This is point I'm asking about . They may just close it to non eu travel surely .

It would all depend on who they decided to close the border to, wouldn't it? - It's still a very vague, generalized question...

Anyway, post-brexit, there won't be that many eu citizens here, will there?

A few Germans, and the odd Dutchman...

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Tue 15 Aug 2017 9:17 pm

Yes, it comes down to the duck test.....

erol · Post by **erol** » Tue 15 Aug 2017 9:47 pm

terry2366 wrote:If they close the border would there be an outcry from the eu ?

Yes

terry2366 wrote:If it's closed would we be allowed to use the SBA for access as it does not come under the roc this answer

The RoC has no say or control over who crosses from the north in to the SBA, but they do have say and control who crosses from the SBA in to the RoC. I can see no scenario where the RoC would decided to stop crossing via green line but would allow them via the SBA, it just makes no sense what so ever.

terry2366 wrote: as it would be against the eu rule and the UN green line regs.

There are no UN regulations that determine who the RoC let in to the RoC or have to let in via the Green line, other than for UN staff and personnel. There is only the agreement between the RoC and the EU that was signed as part of the RoC joining the EU. There is no way for the RoC to unilaterally change these regulations without being in serious trouble with the EU for having broken this agreement.

http://www.ktto.net/wp-content/uploads/ ... lnergl.pdf

terry2366 · Post by **terry2366** » Thu 17 Aug 2017 3:46 pm

the thanks for that Erol very helpful .

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 19 Aug 2017 2:51 pm

The ROC has nothing to gain by closing the border. This will just not happened.
However there remains significant animosity against the TRNC from the ROC.
Penalties and hindrance and warnings against persons investing, owning or having interests in the TRNC have been well documented by the ROC.

As I have indicated before. UK passport holders who enjoy the protections of holing EU citizenship will immediately become more vulnerable to hindrance from ROC administration should they be identified as supporters of the TRNC.
The free right of passage as and EU citizen has been forfeited.

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Sat 19 Aug 2017 4:05 pm

waz-24-7 wrote:...The free right of passage as and EU citizen has been forfeited.

"Will have been forfeited" - if the UK Government does not manage to negotiate a reciprocal free passage deal with the EU - although, of course, that was precisely what a lot of people voted to see the end of...

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sat 19 Aug 2017 5:43 pm

Indeed
The immigration issue driven by the more mature Uk citizen, In my view, decided the matter.
Only more recently is the consequence being more seriously considered.

Certainly, and currently, as of 2019 the UK citizen and ex pat will have significantly less right of travel and protection within the Union.

The rights of EU citizens currently within the UK is pretty certain to remain almost unaltered and a continued flow of EU labour into the UK is without doubt pivotal to the maintenance of UK manufacturing, construction and agricultural industries.

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Sun 20 Aug 2017 5:20 am

Why is it no one in the remain camp can distinguish between immigration and foreign holidays? It is ridiculous to draw a comparison between those able to use a passport to freely holiday abroad as used to happen with no problems in EU countries before we joined and the right of abode which is a very different thing indeed.

I am not against immigration/emigration - to be so would be ironic given that I have chosen to live in Cyprus... however the stresses and strains of large population shifts and the load it places on infrastructure can not be denied. This is where a lot of leave voters' minds were made up and not as the remain camp would have it because the leave camp vote was racist in nature, and I resent the implication by some that I must be racist to agree with the leave vote.

That said, the fact that I would need to make use of the guarantees of a British passport when travelling would hold no issues for me... did it for years.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 20 Aug 2017 5:38 pm

waz-24-7 wrote:Indeed
The immigration issue driven by the more mature Uk citizen, In my view, decided the matter.

Absolute poppycock...speak to people in the real world of all ages and you may find your remark is defo off the cuff.

waz-24-7 · Post by **waz-24-7** » Sun 20 Aug 2017 9:01 pm

Turtle,
As clearly stated. This is my view. A view also taken my many.
Certainly if the younger populous had taken as much interest as the older then the outcome would have been far different.

Groucho,
Not sure the relevance of the racist comment and the outcome. Immigration was very poorly dealt with during campaigns.
It is a sure fact that the UK economy is heavily dependant upon imported labour. That same labour funds significantly the overstretched resources you refer to. The solution is one for the economists and politicians to address and solve,
Certainly the UK government is rightly being very cautious upon the future of the current EU labour pool, its future and its growth.

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Mon 21 Aug 2017 4:18 am

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Mon 21 Aug 2017 5:04 am

waz-24-7 wrote: Not sure the relevance of the racist comment and the outcome. Immigration was very poorly dealt with during campaigns.
It is a sure fact that the UK economy is heavily dependant upon imported labour. That same labour funds significantly the overstretched resources you refer to. The solution is one for the economists and politicians to address and solve,
Certainly the UK government is rightly being very cautious upon the future of the current EU labour pool, its future and its growth.

Where has it been mentioned that foreign workers will need to leave the UK? Only in your rhetoric.... In fact quite the opposite has been stated by those in negotiations - i.e. not you.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Mon 21 Aug 2017 10:12 am

waz-24-7 wrote:Turtle,
As clearly stated. This is my view. A view also taken my many.
Certainly if the younger populous had taken as much interest as the older then the outcome would have been far different.

And there is your answer Waz….The younger generation are simply not interested in the political changes in our country.
Interestingly the information now available says that now the process has started to leave the EU 69% to 21% say it should go ahead….convincing wouldn’t you agree.?

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