Will this ever happen IF the UK leaves the EU?

[aripointer]

Israelis expelled for trying to stay in the north
Non-EU nationals arriving in Cyprus are asked to state their place of residence in the government-controlled areas during their visit. If they state they intend on staying in property belonging to Greek Cypriots in the north, they are denied entry. Officers at the airport have lists of properties.

[Keithcaley]

That was 2 months ago - the GCs promptly recanted, and things returned to normal.

Why are you bringing up old news?

[karmels]

Hi Keith, this is new news not the old report of a month ago. These people were returned not as before when their embassy stepped in and they were allowed to cross to the North. This was in the Cyprus mail this morning, they arrived Monday and were returned on Tuesday.

[aripointer]

Keithcaley
It is not old news. It was reported was in the Cyprus Mail yesterday. New story. Suggest you read. We all need to face up to reality if the UK leaves the EU.
AP

[waddo]

Are you expecting that if you try to cross at Metahan or any other crossing point that the GC's will send you back to the North again after refusing you entry - post Brexit of course? Or are you concerned that you will get off your aircraft at Larnaca/Paphos and be questioned about where you are going to spend your time - if your answer is in the North then you may/ might, will, could be put back on an aircraft heading back to whence you came?

If it is the first instance - stop going there and save the hassle. If it is the second instance - fly into the TRNC via Turkey. I see no problems either way - Brexit has been voted for and everyone will carry the burden or cheer at the resultant outcome. The only real losers will be the GC's who will swiftly notice a drop in income.

[sophie]

I totally agree Waddo. However, although never having done it myself, I can understand the temptation to fly in and out of Larnaca. Last week a friend of mine flew back to Manchester via Aegean Airlines. Landed at Athens, stayed a couple of hours and then flew Athens to Manchester. Total cost 75 pounds. He did the same coming out here. I suppose he was prepared to take the risk?

[ttoli]

It has happened a couple of times now, though I had a party from Israel arrive this morning and enter without a problem.

[frontalman]

If you are the sort of person who is unable to tell a fib then it might an issue. I can accept that we may have to use Ercan all the time if things do get awkward.

[Maisiemoo]

I can see a lot of people will be staying at Chateau Lambousa

[ttoli]

I can see a lot of people will be staying at Chateau Lambousa

or claiming to be

[Ragged Robin]

Makes one wonder just how we oldies managed when the border was closed to (almost) everyone (almost) all of the time,don't it?

And no UK TV, no Turkish water, no high rise buildings and no traffic jams!

[Deniz1]

Bliss R R

[Maisiemoo]

Those were the days RR,

[Keithcaley]

Keithcaley
It is not old news. It was reported was in the Cyprus Mail yesterday. New story. Suggest you read. We all need to face up to reality if the UK leaves the EU.
AP

O.K. Thank you aripointer and Karmels.

I had 'googled' the text that you posted, and the only match that came up was the 2 months old article.

I have now found the article to which you are referring here - thanks again...

[Rosehillgirl]

The RoC government has for years and years gone to great lengths to destroy any tourist trade in the North.

I believe they will seize upon our exiting the EU as a golden opportunity to refuse to let us across the border.

We lived in the TRNC in 2003/4 when the border first opened. At first the South would not allow us UK citizens to cross-only allowing TC's-their argument was the we had entered the island at an illegal entry point (Ercan). However when they became part of the EU they were told in no uncertain terms that they could not refuse entry to any EU citizen-so very reluctantly they had to relent and let us move back and forth.

After we depart from the EU I honestly can't see them allowing people to fly into Larnaca and cross back and forward. Our (ex)EU passports will not allow us a right of entry.

Yes the South will lose some revenue-but probably view it as a price worth paying to make the North suffer even more.

[aripointer]

Hopefully, the rumoured plan B will be up and running by then? The ROC have lost a lot of credibility with the breakdown of the latest round of talks.
The way things are going I don't think Brexit will ever happen.
Headless chickens comes to mind.
AP

[waz-24-7]

Oh Dear

Still the vast majority fail to acknowledge the real outcome of Brexit.
The FREE right of entry and or passage into EU states is forfeited ,that includes Cyprus.
European member states are ready to take a hard line against the UK based on the circa 50% desire for divorce.


Even this week the Uk applications for European city of culture have now been excluded. I expect exclusions of many forms and varieties to emerge over coming years as the damages of the divorce settlement become apparent.

Yes many will simply say good riddance to them. However these same people have failed UK youngsters who in general want to be part of a modern forward thinking European community but have been forced into a more isolated xenophobic British culture.

Stand alone Britain is a backward shortsighted notion that many people marched into having been led by a troop of idiots who have disappeared into the woodwork.

[waddo]

aripointer, Brexit will happen, it's a no brainer. The government - any government - can not lose! If it happens to be a success then they can claim it was all their hard work that achieved it, if it is a failure then they can claim they tried but could do nothing else because the "People" voted for it and they always do what the "People" tell them to do. Win - win for the government either way and they still are getting paid. As for the RoC, post Brexit, they will stop non-EU citizens from transiting from the South to the North and vice versa, they will require non-EU citizens to have a visa to enter the RoC and they will stop non-eu citizens from crossing the Green Line from the North to the South. Why? Because then and probably for the very first time in their history, they can do something legally and tell the world they are doing it! More publicity for the good God fearing, downtrodden RoC and of course just another excuse to prove how terrible the Occupied Territories are living under the yoke of the Turkish Military. I did not think I would ever say this but - perhaps it would be better to become a part of Turkey, at least then the North would become legal and visa's would be required to travel in both directions by anyone! That may even cut down the traffic on the roads as I see a huge increase in RoC registered vehicles on the TRNC roads of late!

[Keithcaley]

...perhaps it would be better to become a part of Turkey, at least then the North would become legal...

Could someone please explain to me the mechanism by which TRNC could become a 'legal' - i.e. Internationally Recognised - part of Turkey?

As far as I can see, just because Turkey might declare that Northern Cyprus is now part of Turkey's own territory does not mean that the ROC or the rest of the World would accept it, in total disregard of all the UN resolutions for which the rest of the World has voted.

As the situation now stands, 'The World' regards us as being 'Illegally Occupied' by Turkey, and I can't really foresee that situation changing solely because Turkey might declare itself to be a 'Legal Occupier'.

I'm not denying that there may be Political moves afoot in other spheres which might change The World's view of the ROC, but I really can't understand how we could become an Internationally recognised and accepted part of Turkey, just on Turkey's say-so...

I hope that I'm wrong!

Help me with this, anyone???

[kayc]

For all practical purposes TRNC is a Turkish territory... we use their currency, their military protects us, they've supplied good water, and soon from what I understand an electrical supply as well.

It would seem logical if the entire island would be "part of Turkey" just due to the proximity.... but, I know the Greeks would have a hissy fit and then some.

I guess the card will have to fall one way or the other, time will tell. I don't know how the Turkish Cypriots think about this, most I've talked to would like better relations with the Southern part of the island... for commerce and trade. It's regrettable that the island is divided and people can't get along.

Just being "Cypriots" doesn't seem to be a possibility unfortunately.

[waddo]

Keith, Don't think it ever will become a legal - i,e, Internationally Recognised - part of Turkey. However, as Turkey and Russia are big friends (well they were 10 minutes ago) and neither really care what the rest of the world thinks anyway, why not go the same way as this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexatio ... Federation at the least it would give the RoC - a state which even the UK knows is illegal - something else to winge about to their own Russian buddies?

As long as there are politicians who want to keep their part time jobs there will never be a "Peace" agreement between the North and South and as long as the UN wants to maintain it's quiet little base here there will always be sanctions against the North for having the temerity to actually exist!

As RR said earlier - kind of - we lived happily before the RoC allowed us (with their arms pushed up their backs by the EU) to freely wander back and forth across the "Green Line" and increase their flight sales and general household sales. If they then stop us doing, this because of their own childish behaviour that they will maintain they have to impose due to EU law, then so be it. On the bright side it is simply just another language I do not have to bother learning - lol. What I would like to see is that the North then impose a visa requirement for all travellers from the South to the North and let's see how they like the boot being on the other foot.

[Keithcaley]

So...

'Just the same' - only worse!

Hey Ho, there's nothing we can do about it, so just carry on as best we can!

[turtle]

Stand alone Britain is a backward shortsighted notion that many people marched into having been led by a troop of idiots who have disappeared into the woodwork.

Can we have some names again Waz as you have made this statement before without backing it up ?
All I can see is whingeing remoaners frustrating the process for the last 12 months.

[Ragged Robin]

Makes one wonder how some of us managed before the UK went into the EU (andbefore the IT revolution come to that)
Slim and fit due to mainly home grown andhome made food, and outdoor exercise rather than sitting in front of a screen . Only black and white TV, no computers, calculators in their infancy and suspect. Proud to be British and a great sense of community and family life. And proud of our Commonwealth - remembr "Buy British" and lamb and butter form New Zealand?

[waz-24-7]

Turtle.
Quite simply ALL the leaders of the BREXIT campaign whos promised £££££ and have delivered nothing.

[mickhm]

cos we aint out yet

[turtle]

Turtle.
Quite simply ALL the leaders of the BREXIT campaign whos promised £££££ and have delivered nothing.

Waz
What are they supposed to do.....we are still in the EU or don't you understand this.

stop the dithering and let them get on with it.

[Ragged Robin]

What Waz andthe anti Brexiteers are blithely ignoring is that their precious EU , in 2004, promised Cypriots that if they voted "Yes" to reunification they would be admitted to membership of the EU, The GCs voted "No" and the TCs "Yes".
The EU incredibly admitted the GCs to membership and continued not only the exclude the TCs but to operate an embargo. AS a native Englishwoman and a UK citizen and taxpayer I do not want, even by association with my native land, to be a part of an organisation that could behave in such an unfair, irresponsible way. Regardless of the economic implications for or against.

[waz-24-7]

RR
The EU is not so precious to me as you indicate . However, I feel the EU is an integral part of the future for European peace and prosperity including that of the UK.

Your view that past errors should be reason enough for the UK to cut its association is rather short sighted particularly for future generations who critically must live in a very small and crowded world which is increasingly under threat from the isolationist regimes intent only on self preservation at the cost of others.

[waz-24-7]

Turtle.
Quite simply ALL the leaders of the BREXIT campaign whos promised £££££ and have delivered nothing.

Waz
What are they supposed to do.....we are still in the EU or don't you understand this.

stop the dithering and let them get on with it.

Turtle,
Dithering certainly. The UK government have failed to offer any realistic plan or strategy. The Europeans are certainly playing hard ball and negotiations remain unresolved.
The latest offer to buy ourselves out in return for trade deal talks suggests that the UK administration is responding to the looming threat of a general migration of trade from UK shores if a deal is not forthcoming.

I hate saying this but this is precisely what many scholars and business gurus predicted and forecast should we leave.

[Ragged Robin]

Waz That was far from the only error the EU had made, but they would all be too many to quote, and this one is particularly relevant to the topic of this thread. And it was hardly just an "error": it was a deliberate policy to support an illegal regime (the RoC) which had been guilty of genocide.

The EU is itself "intent only on self preservation at the cost of others" and is itself a threat to future generations with its restrictive and irrational rules and regulations many of which bear no relation to conditons in the countries under its control.

[waz-24-7]

Waz That was far from the only error the EU had made, but they would all be too many to quote, and this one is particularly relevant to the topic of this thread. And it was hardly just an "error": it was a deliberate policy to support an illegal regime (the RoC) which had been guilty of genocide.

The EU is itself "intent only on self preservation at the cost of others" and is itself a threat to future generations with its restrictive and irrational rules and regulations many of which bear no relation to conditons in the countries under its control.

RR
Hmmm
So your solution to the clear issues is to go it alone as such. Not really a solution , fear and greed I think. The cost of this in terms of economic and social damage is yet to fully emerge.
My own view is that this strategy is rather short sighted and in the long term is far more damaging to the UK and indeed Europe than many voters have appreciated.

Furthermore,
Self preservation is a very noble aspiration. My view is that humanity in general has circa 8-10 generations remaining on this planet as is. If the human race is to continue beyond this point then a concerted and unified strategy must be developed as soon as possible. Co operation and working together in the form of Group support activities such as the UN, EU, AA, ANA. are the basis for joint research development and indeed survival programmes.
The isolationist and xenophobic attitudes of some nations can only increase the risk of following the dinosaurs into extinction.

[erol]

Getting back to the topic of crossing the green line. The RoC does not have unilateral control over who can and can not cross the green line and under what conditions, be it EU nationals or not. The terms for who can cross , both EU nationals and non EU nationals, was agreed between the RoC and the EU and these terms can not be changed unilaterally by the RoC but only in agreement with the EU. This is why they are currently choosing to deny some third country nationals, some of the time, entry in to the RoC itself via RoC control entry points because they can not let them in to the RoC and then limit their ability to cross the green line so they are choosing to not let them enter at all.

[waddo]

Erol, I agree with everything you have written but surely that is the problem right there? At the present time UK citizens are also EU citizens and therefore have the right of passage. Come 2019 that all changes and as there is no "Deal" between the UK and the EU at this time over Cyprus, nor does it currently appear that there ever will be. Then in 2019 when all UK citizens cease to be EU citizens, will they not be treated as "third country nationals" - much to the delight of the RoC who can then choose to stop them entering or leaving the RoC unless by a legal port of entry? As it is the EU who have imposed sanctions against the TRNC I do not believe that they will be kind to a UK citizen who has left the EU and "cut them a deal" to allow them the same privileges that they currently have. I would love to think that things would simply remain the same post March 2019 but knowing how happy the RoC is to gain publicity and retain their refugee status and payments whilst portraying themselves as the down trodden and poor Cypriot relations, I fear that they will use anything they can to cause disruption and harm to the TRNC.

[erol]

Once the UK leaves the EU the RoC will still have to abide by the terms of the Green line regulations re crossing there for third country nationals.

They may however choose to do the same to UK citizens arriving via the south as they are now doing in a few cases with people from Israel, namely stopping them entering the RoC at all if they believe that they will then cross to the North and use pre 74 GC property whilst in the North. They could also decide to require UK citizens to obtain a visa before entry in to the RoC and if they do this then lack of such a visa will also prevent crossing via the Green line as this is already a part of the Green line regulations for third country nationals as agreed between the RoC and the EU,

[mickhm]

Why cannot a soft border be negotiated such as they are considering for Ireland?

[waz-24-7]

Ok
Without doubt the crossing of the green line will become more difficult upon surrender of EU status upon final divorce.

The ROC in the main still views investors and supporters of the TRNC in a very dim light. The ROC administration by enlarge will certainly capitalise upon the weakened status of British Citizens who up to final departure from EU held right of passage and other legal entitlements that the EU membership provides.

Now many will say OK lets just use Ercan via Turkey. Easy.....but the economic effect will be felt by the TRNC as avenues of entry are further restricted. Travel to TRNC by UK Citizens will become more difficult and likely more expensive.

[erol]

Ok
Without doubt the crossing of the green line will become more difficult upon surrender of EU status upon final divorce.

The terms by which EU nationals AND non EU nationals are allowed to cross the green line will not change because of brexit. What will change is the status of UK citizens, moving from the existing EU nationals terms to the existing third country national terms. What may or may not also change is if UK citizens will need a visa to enter the RoC or not, which in turn will impact their ability to cross the Green line as per the exiting green line terms for non EU nationals as they already exist today.

[turtle]

I travel to the TRNC 2 or 3 times a year and always travel via Ercan & never use the south for travel or shopping, can't see what the problem is.

People who choose to visit or reside in the north should accept the fact that it's not recognised nor has the freedom that other countries have.

[silverfir]

Turtle, that's it in a nutshell

[Ragged Robin]

Exactly, I came here in 1996 when there was no way of getting across the border and access only via Ercan. I accepted this as part of the "deal", together with the lack of many of the luxuries some people now enjoy. For many of us the simpler life was , despite some hardship, far more healthy and enjoyable. Without wishing to hurt anyone, I have to say, however, that (in view of the ongoing political uncertainty I would not have come either then or even later when the border was opened, if I had still had close relatives alive in the UK, or any directly dependant on me

I gather facilities at Ercan have been improved and if increased traffic is expected could be further. The thing is to continue to press for sufficient recognition of the situation for direct flights, and failing hat to press Turkey to improve conditions at the transfer airports for travellers to North Cyprus.
One thing I have l always fancied flying to Turkey and continuing to Cyprus by ferry (I prefer ships to aircraft). Is this a total impossibility?

What worries me is that I depend on medication which is not available here. Currently Turkish Cypriots who regularly visit the South fetch it for me. If they too are restricted I will be in serious trouble. I cant ask anyone to bring it from UK, because it is on prescription and I doubt a UK chemist would accept one written by a TRNC doctor

[Maisiemoo]

I travel to the TRNC 2 or 3 times a year and always travel via Ercan & never use the south for travel or shopping, can't see what the problem is.

People who choose to visit or reside in the north should accept the fact that it's not recognised nor has the freedom that other countries have.

It's fine if you are able bodied but the problem I have is my husband requires special assistance and we need to fly from Gatwick as special assistance at Heathrow is dire and drop off facilities at Stansted abysmal. Added to these facts is having to change planes at Istanbul and hanging around waiting for the connecting flight to Ercan or being rushed through because the incoming plane is late. The special assistance is fantastic at Larnaca and the guys there so helpful. I have also read of special assistance passengers not getting the help they needed at Atarturk airport and missing their connection.Sadly if we are not able to fly through Larnaca I can see our days of coming to North Cyprus ending.

[waz-24-7]

Ok
Without doubt the crossing of the green line will become more difficult upon surrender of EU status upon final divorce.

The terms by which EU nationals AND non EU nationals are allowed to cross the green line will not change because of brexit. What will change is the status of UK citizens, moving from the existing EU nationals terms to the existing third country national terms. What may or may not also change is if UK citizens will need a visa to enter the RoC or not, which in turn will impact their ability to cross the Green line as per the exiting green line terms for non EU nationals as they already exist today.

Erol,
One should not forget that one must firstly enter the ROC in order to get to the Green line.
There lies the difficulty.
You have of course identified this but appear to have taken my comment out of context.

[erol]

Erol,
One should not forget that one must firstly enter the ROC in order to get to the Green line.
There lies the difficulty.
You have of course identified this but appear to have taken my comment out of context.

Just trying to dispel a few myths that seem pretty common.

Myth 1 . The RoC can unilaterally change the terms that govern who can cross the Green line. They can not do this unilaterally but only with the agreement and approval of the EU (commission)

Myth 2. The Green line agreement between the RoC and the EU only covers and deals with crossing of EU nationals. This is not true, it defines the terms for crossing of EU nationals and third party nationals , as well as goods.

Myth 3. The UK leaving the EU will change the green line agreements as they exist currently. No it will nor. What will change is the status of UK citizens from that of EU national to that of third country national, but the terms of the Green line that define the ability to cross of both categories (EU national and third country national) remain as they are currently.

Myth 4. The Green line agreements between EU and RoC refer to 'having entered Cyprus by a legal port of entry' either in regards to EU nationals or third party nationals. No it does not - there is nothing in the terms that define who can cross that refers to how Cyprus was entered originally or previously.

There are others but these are the main ones.

[kerry 6138]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Cyprus
Given that the services sector, including tourism, contributes almost 80% to GDP and employs more than 70% of the labor force and that total number of tourists in Cyprus in 2016 was 3,186,531 of which 1,157,978 were UK nationals followed by Russians with 781,634 (Israeli's placed 4 with 148,739).
Do we really believe that that the south will make it difficult for UK nationals to enter Cyprus ?

[erol]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Cyprus
Given that the services sector, including tourism, contributes almost 80% to GDP and employs more than 70% of the labor force and that total number of tourists in Cyprus in 2016 was 3,186,531 of which 1,157,978 were UK nationals followed by Russians with 781,634 (Israeli's placed 4 with 148,739).
Do we really believe that that the south will make it difficult for UK nationals to enter Cyprus ?

If they think the visitor is going to spend their time and money in the TRNC and just use the RoC as a cheaper or more convenient means of getting to and from the TRNC than Ercan, then yes it seems entirely possible to me that they will seek to make things difficult for such visitors to Cyprus whilst trying to impact those that seek to stay within the RoC as little as possible.

[waz-24-7]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Cyprus
Given that the services sector, including tourism, contributes almost 80% to GDP and employs more than 70% of the labor force and that total number of tourists in Cyprus in 2016 was 3,186,531 of which 1,157,978 were UK nationals followed by Russians with 781,634 (Israeli's placed 4 with 148,739).
Do we really believe that that the south will make it difficult for UK nationals to enter Cyprus ?

No
The ROC would be very foolish to make things difficult for Uk citizens to enter the ROC.
What the ROC will continue to do however is antagonise and or hinder persons that are seen to support, invest or patronise the TRNC.

[waddo]

waz, If that is the only thing they will do then can you explain why they do not NOW give hassle to any EU citizens that try to visit the TRNC? Go to Girne any weekend and count the coach tour buses from the South that flock across, count the RoC registration vehicles that jam up the ques coming North. It seems there is no problem going South to North

Yet if an EU citizen residing in the TRNC gives the immigration officials any cause at all - and some of them do not even require a cause - they will be questioned and given abuse because they have visited the "Occupied Territories". The same is true of some EU tourists who use LCA as an airport but have their holidays in the TRNC, many reports of hold ups in travel and abuse from the RoC immigration just because they have come to the TRNC already - what will change in the future?

[waz-24-7]

waz, If that is the only thing they will do then can you explain why they do not NOW give hassle to any EU citizens that try to visit the TRNC? Go to Girne any weekend and count the coach tour buses from the South that flock across, count the RoC registration vehicles that jam up the ques coming North. It seems there is no problem going South to North

Yet if an EU citizen residing in the TRNC gives the immigration officials any cause at all - and some of them do not even require a cause - they will be questioned and given abuse because they have visited the "Occupied Territories". The same is true of some EU tourists who use LCA as an airport but have their holidays in the TRNC, many reports of hold ups in travel and abuse from the RoC immigration just because they have come to the TRNC already - what will change in the future?

You are correct to point out the tourist coaches seen in Girne. The said tourists will have brought significant revenue to the ROC assuming their base is in one of the ROC resorts. To antagonize these cash cow tourists would be counter productive. Its all about the money.

Para 2
What will change?

Right of passage.
EU citizen protections
EU legal status
Increased vulnerability to persecution for supporting the TRNC

[waddo]

"To antagonize these cash cow tourists would be counter productive. Its all about the money." So why antagonize those "cash cow", permanent dwellers in the TRNC that wish to spend their cash in the RoC, that is also counter productive but the RoC don't seem to care about the continued finance that flows North to South at all. In a lot of cases the TRNC is it's own worst enemy, they allow the RoC coach's into the North but the South will not allow the TRNC coach's into the South. Try getting a mixed coach across the border - by mixed I mean some Turkish Cypriots an some EU citizens - not allowed to happen - why? All of the passengers can be EU passport carrying citizens but it is still not allowed.

I think that the RoC will do absolutely everything within it's power - and even try things that are not in it's power - to prevent any non EU passport holder from crossing at any of the crossing points in either direction once the UK has left the EU. They do not care about the financial loss, they care about causing disruption and trouble for the North and they will do it in the hopes that the current flock of EU passport holding UK citizens will stop holidaying in the North altogether. You can call me as cynical as you like - I will wait and see.