WHAT'S YOUR VIEWS ON THIS ARTICLE RE: WINTER FUEL ALLOWANCE

annanirvanna · Post by **annanirvanna** » Thu 25 Oct 2012 6:47 pm

Dear KibKomers - I receive the I-Expat magazine by e-mail and today was a very interesting article on the Winter Fuel Allowance for expats and the forthcoming 'plans' the government has in store to try & restrict paying out. I have pasted the article below as it may definitely impact on all my good friends over in TRNC - please make your own minds up as to how this will affect one and all.

Poll Turns Heat Up On Winter Fuel Pay Out

Paying expats Winter Fuel Payment seems a little odd for a government that blows hot and cold over paying state pension cost of living increases to thousands of pensioners.

Winter fuel allowance is a payment of £100 to £300 a year to expats receiving the British state pension.

The allowance was aimed at helping pensioners on low incomes keep their homes warm in the winter, but the many are questioning whether pensioners living in warmer countries really need the payment.

Tampering with the payment in Britain would cause a stir as fuel and energy prices are continuing to rise – most major energy firms have announced price increase of up to 6% on gas and electricity in recent weeks.

Prime Minister David Cameron has also promised new laws to make sourcing cheap energy tariffs easier for households.

Expats and winter fuel allowance
A recent poll asked expats whether they felt they needed the winter fuel allowance.

Just over half (52%) agreed that they could do without the benefit.

The consensus would seem that expats would forego other benefits, like the winter fuel allowance, if they were all granted index-linked state pensions.

The payment was only protected by a European Court of Justice ruling in June 2012, after a retired expat in Switzerland claimed the British government discriminated by failing to pay the allowance to all pensioners – even if they left the UK decades ago.

Around 73,000 expats qualify for winter fuel payments at a cost of £15 million a year, because the Department of Work and Pensions would only pay the allowance to pensioners who lived in the UK until they retired.

Temperature test

Now, the government must pay everyone living in the European Union and a handful of other countries who receive state pension regardless of when they left the UK, which could make the bill soar to £90 million.

Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith is planning to get round the ruling with new laws that include a temperature test – which basically means if expats live in a country where the country does not fall below a pre-set level, they cannot claim the allowance.

“We will fight these ridiculous EU rules. It is ludicrous we could have to pay more pensioners living in hot countries,” he said.

Households with someone on a state pension qualify for the £200, while those with someone over 80 get £300.

The post Poll Turns Heat Up On Winter Fuel Pay Out appeared first on iExpats.com.

cyprusishome · Post by **cyprusishome** » Thu 25 Oct 2012 7:50 pm

I believe they will do away with this allowance as part of the proposed restructuring of state pension payments which allows a single allowance payable to all with no extras.

Rambling Rose · Post by **Rambling Rose** » Thu 25 Oct 2012 8:06 pm

I think it very unfair that just because I live abroad I lose a lot of benefits I spent my life earning.
However, the winter fuel allowance is comparatively small (compared with, say, access to National Health) and I would not make a fuss about it for fear of losing the index linking from my pension.!

However the date of leaving UK cut off point is ridulous and the proposal to relate it to temperature expensive if not downright unworkable. (Maybe we should apply for a summer air-con allowance if the temperature exceeds 100F!). If there has to be a cut off point - why not relate it to age, as older people are more susceptible and less likely to be able to find part time work to supplement pensions. (Also the older they are , the shorter time they will be able toclaim it!)

Are these people for real? Maybe someone could offer Messrs. Camerson and what's 's name a free holiday in Cyprus in January - to teach them that amount of rainfall, wind chill factor, and house construction are as important as temperature.

annanirvanna · Post by **annanirvanna** » Thu 25 Oct 2012 8:13 pm

For me personally, who gets nothing extra just because I live currently in Egypt the fuel allowance 'lottery' does not impact on me. I personally would like it if ALL pensioners, where-ever they choose to spend their 'twilight' years received index linked pensions as no country is immune to price rises and pensions only go so far. But knowing the 'tightwads' in Whitehall they will do whatever they can to trim the payouts to expats as they no longer reside in UK so out of sight, out of mind unless it's related to getting some tax out of us .

BLUE BUTTERFLY · Post by **BLUE BUTTERFLY** » Thu 25 Oct 2012 11:06 pm

I read on the Guardian website today that they are considering a law to make pensioners work for their pensions.

They suggest that pensioners could do voluntary work in places such as nursing/residential homes

niceone · Post by **niceone** » Fri 26 Oct 2012 2:01 am

After working for fifty years I think we have already earned our pensions

read this article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ed-54.html

guy is an idiot

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Fri 26 Oct 2012 4:42 am

BLUE BUTTERFLY wrote:...They suggest that pensioners could do voluntary work in places such as nursing/residential homes

Well that would suit me down to the ground - all them other old fogies to talk to, plenty of beds to lie on of I get a bit tired.

Seriously though, it wouldn't do much for the Employment Statistics...

mamachina · Post by **mamachina** » Fri 26 Oct 2012 8:44 am

Its all relative isnt it? We sit in concrete bunkers with a/cs on heat in the winter as its cold and dank - to us - maybe in UK the temp is lower but the ambient temp is ok and the heating systems - mainly - give appropriate heat! I do not apologise, we get the allowance, and it goes towards our wood and electricity bills in the "winter" and we are glad of it.

annanirvanna · Post by **annanirvanna** » Fri 26 Oct 2012 10:59 am

Totally agree - we have worked for decades & should be able to relax in our 'twilight' years spending our time doing what we want and NOT being skivvies emptying bedpans. Also any pay we earned as 'oldie lackies' would be added to our Personal Allowance which could then put us over the limit = we would be taxed 20% on every penny over the p/a limit. Yet another way for the 'tightwads' in government to squeeze some more hard earned cash out of us!!!.

As KeithCaley states that would also affect the employment stats - they would probably say that more jobs have been created & more positions filled, trying to make them and their statistics look good, but by us pensioners that they are considering to 'press' into labour. Bit remiscent of the old navy days & press-gangs to me!!!

Also MamaChina there are lots of us pensioner expats like me who cannot get anything because we live outside the EU and the 'handful' of accepted countries that can. We lose out on index linked pensions, fuel allowance & Christmas bonus. As RR stated they do not consider the fuel (electric etc.) needed to cool us on blistering hot days or even consider that even here, in Egypt it can get bitterly cold 3 - 4 months in winter. I have to use a Duvet, hotwater bottle and try to heat my rooms. When I go out I have a ski jacket, gloves, scarf, hat & boots on. Just because we live in places like Cyprus and Egypt and Thailand and Malaysia ----- they think we live in Shangri-La and walk around 365 days a year in nice sundresses and shorts sipping on a G&T.

They need to take their blinkers off - treat ALL pensioners with equality, which was what the EU court stated they had to do. Instead the bigwigs have gone scurrying back to their offices to plan & plot ways to get round a legitimate legal ruling via EU Judges to avoid acting humanely with equality and un-biasness. Shame on them all & I hope that when they get old some-one deals them a swift kick in their pension plans and forces them into slave labour.

dippersgirl · Post by **dippersgirl** » Fri 26 Oct 2012 12:41 pm

Shame on them all & I hope that when they get old some-one deals them a swift kick in their pension plans and forces them into slave labour.

Rambling Rose · Post by **Rambling Rose** » Fri 26 Oct 2012 4:58 pm

I dont think the Unions will be exactly jumping for joy about that one!

Has it occurred to them that some pensioners are already in Nursing/Care Homes - the ones that have already had to sell their homes and use up all their savings to afford it.

woodspeckie · Post by **woodspeckie** » Fri 26 Oct 2012 5:10 pm

In the article it says that a third of people between 65-74 are volunteers already and that a percentage only drops slightly for over 75's, they are the largest group of charity and community volunteers, so what difference will it make?

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Fri 26 Oct 2012 5:42 pm

If I said "B@stards" would everyone agree with me?

carolhm · Post by **carolhm** » Fri 26 Oct 2012 5:48 pm

Thats really really naughty kc

But yes

Mel7348 · Post by **Mel7348** » Fri 26 Oct 2012 6:34 pm

Naughty but nice kc

In answer to your question YES.

kaiserphil · Post by **kaiserphil** » Fri 26 Oct 2012 7:27 pm

Most definitely Keith!

Rambling Rose · Post by **Rambling Rose** » Fri 26 Oct 2012 8:03 pm

Much too mild Keith!

Maybe they think they are living in the Victorian age, and will next send us up chimneys and to haul coal in the mines.

annanirvanna · Post by **annanirvanna** » Fri 26 Oct 2012 9:36 pm

Far too mild a comment for that wazzack I say K.C. but laughed when I read your post That moron is a total a***h*** I say. I hope his parents and grandparents are totally ashamed of him & send him up the chimney & light a roaring fire under him!!!.

BLUE BUTTERFLY · Post by **BLUE BUTTERFLY** » Fri 26 Oct 2012 11:05 pm

I wonder, if we, as are some volunteers, allowed to claim travel and sustanence allowances I,m not posh, economy flights and trusthouse forte will do

flowerfairy · Post by **flowerfairy** » Sat 27 Oct 2012 4:40 am

Totally agree with you RR, most of the ''bods'' making these ridiculous decisions were still in nappies while we were working and paying into the pension scheme. What right do they have to even suggest that we work again?
I'll be the one with the dish saying ''can I have some more please'',

Rambling Rose · Post by **Rambling Rose** » Sat 27 Oct 2012 3:26 pm

Right, thats it! Keith C. is elected Fagin and we all don rags and collect round the House of Commons - plenty of full pockets to pick there

When ? Well its nearly 5th Nov. Ooops , and I out of order for inciting violence , well, please Miss, Anna and FF gave me the idea!

annanirvanna · Post by **annanirvanna** » Sat 27 Oct 2012 4:00 pm

tale teller - tale teller, RR

carolhm · Post by **carolhm** » Sat 27 Oct 2012 4:02 pm

Now now children , play nicely

Rambling Rose · Post by **Rambling Rose** » Sat 27 Oct 2012 4:30 pm

Does dancing round a bonfire with an effigy of Lord B. count as "playing nicely!??

Now, there is an idea , we could have a bonfire party and send him photos.

Pity the forecast is so bad, we will all probably be huddling in our homes dodging the leaks in the roof.

Halffull · Post by **Halffull** » Sat 27 Oct 2012 7:04 pm

Shiny assed civil servant probably pushed a pen, shat on his oppos and got his fat cat pension and knighthood for being a total ass. Probably never endangered his shiny ass for his country or worked a proper days work in his life, created if his lovely little life was disturbed or upset in any way and made disasterous decisions which cost normal tax paying human beings.

annanirvanna · Post by **annanirvanna** » Sat 27 Oct 2012 8:24 pm

TEE-HEE-HEE lovin' that reply halfful.

Think it's safe to say that most KibKomers don't think much of the ministers and their views back in UK. **Please note everyone how polite my reply is tonight

carolhm · Post by **carolhm** » Sat 27 Oct 2012 9:06 pm

Very polite , well done

Art · Post by **Art** » Sun 28 Oct 2012 9:21 pm

While continuing to pay UK tax on my income -i have absolutely no guilt about taking the fuel allowance.

Halffull · Post by **Halffull** » Sun 28 Oct 2012 10:03 pm

Wish I had claimed mine when I could, have to wait now until 2015, but I will make sure I do now, rich fat cat waste of space

Rambling Rose · Post by **Rambling Rose** » Sun 28 Oct 2012 11:38 pm

Halfull: Sorry, dont understand, what happens in 2015 that will enable you to claim it?

flowerfairy · Post by **flowerfairy** » Mon 29 Oct 2012 5:56 am

Totally agree Art. We bought our house and it is now rented, we are taxed on unearned income. B'''''''''''dy cheek, UNEARNED...
I slogged my g'''ts out to buy that, and forgoed holidays.
BUT, I can't set the rent that I pay here against it....
Well, at least I've woken up to yet another lovely sunny morning, and I still think I'm lucky.
RR.... go girl, I'm with you all the way, hahahaha

Halffull · Post by **Halffull** » Mon 29 Oct 2012 8:32 am

Rambling Rose, I didn't bother claiming it when I could at 60/61 so now have to wait until I am 65

Rambling Rose · Post by **Rambling Rose** » Mon 29 Oct 2012 4:11 pm

Halffull : Do you mean the winter fuel allowance - because I cant remember how old I was when I asked, but I am now approaching 70 - but the Pensions Service definitely told me it was not age related , but depended on if you were in the UK and had claimed it THERE
at the qualifying age, Perhaps I should try again.?

Has anyone noticed that this must be the only thread in which we all appear to be in COMPLETE agreement. Perhaps because we are a rare breed (people who worked and saved hard to have a good retirement) and are now an endangered species. We should found a Society for our protection. And of course it upsets them we are the ones that escaped from the zoo
always get it right and made mistakes but at least we tried. We did not expect the state to do it all for us - just to get the benefits we had earned.

Talking of the zoo, which now appears to be run by the monkeys, and if you will forgive me for going slightly ot, I see the latest proposal in the UK is to save money byturning off the street lights. Of course the motoring organisations are up in arms, but what about vulnerable pedestrians (almost by definition the elederly and disabled) who cant afford cars and are liable to falls and sneak thieves. They say they will chose "low crime areas" - so how long will they remain low crime - the criminal arent idiots and know an opportunity when they are given one on a plate.

JeanW · Post by **JeanW** » Mon 29 Oct 2012 7:40 pm

I, too, am a little confused about halfull's comments regarding the Winter Fuel Allowance. As far as I am aware:
1. You cannot claim it if you live abroad UNLESS you were in receipt of it before you moved.
2. You are not entitled to it unless you are in receipt of a state pension.
3. I did not "claim" it; it was paid into my bank account automatically when I became eligible for it. so I fail to see how you could have foregone the right to get it at age 60-61 but could "reclaim" it when you reach 65?

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Mon 29 Oct 2012 7:55 pm

I tried to claim it but was told I did not qualify as I was not in the UK during the qualifying period which if I remember was the september after I became 60. The letter said that I would not be able to claim again.

woodspeckie · Post by **woodspeckie** » Mon 29 Oct 2012 8:01 pm

Jean. You are right with 1, you have to qualify to receive it before you leave the UK.
2. You don't have to receive a state pension friends of ours got it as they both reached 60 although they were both working full time. 3. You do automatically receive it, it used to be a man had to wait until he was 65 but that was changed a few years ago to 60 and I think some had to claim it then.

annanirvanna · Post by **annanirvanna** » Mon 29 Oct 2012 8:11 pm

Right then guys & gals what do you think of the reply I got today from some bureaucratic t**sp** when I inquired about whether I would be entitled to index link on my SRP if I relocated from Egypt to TRNC (my SRP is frozen due to me living in Egypt). Clear case of 'embargoed victimisation' I think. Hasten to add the question about whether I would also get fuel allowance & Christams bonus was completely ignored. I have sent a short sharp reply back requesting an indepth reason why my SRP will continue to remain frozen and requesting that they also answer the other questions they ignored - have also asked for the Ombudsman details. I see a battle brewing Hmmmm, Maybe a little complaint to the EU. Anway the lovely helpful and friendly reply is below for you to see

Dear Mrs Taylor
Thank you for contacting the International Pension Centre with your e-mail dated 18 October 2012.
Your pension will remain frozen if you move to Northern Cyprus. Please contact us 4 week prior to any move.

Sorry can't talk any more too busy spitting feathers!!!

Philoz · Post by **Philoz** » Mon 29 Oct 2012 9:15 pm

Anna-Can I just say that opening a post with the words 'Right then Guys and Gals' is not possibly the best thing to say given the current issues with Jimmy Saviile at the present time.
Just trying to be helpful(In the absence of Keith).
PS
JUST MOVE HERE!

Rambling Rose · Post by **Rambling Rose** » Mon 29 Oct 2012 10:57 pm

Anna : I have sent you a PM re the index linking.

muffin · Post by **muffin** » Tue 30 Oct 2012 10:37 am

The government is totally out of order in trying to tamper with any benefits to pensioners. We have spent our working lives paying enormous sums of money in tax and N.I. and should now be entitled to see some return during our twilight years. If we were immigrants or foreigners coming to the UK the handouts are automatic. Why should we be deprived of what is rightfully due to us?

annanirvanna · Post by **annanirvanna** » Tue 30 Oct 2012 12:10 pm

Hi Philoz (KeithCaley2). OOps never even considered that, no offence was intended. Was never a JS fan anyway - he always looked like a completely big headed, egotistical, up himself, get ur hair cut idiot.

Muffin - cheers totally endorse what you say - they take 100% from us every month when we worked and when it's time for our entitlements they get the parring knife out and trim away as much as they can and hand us a tit-bit of entitlements. As to the last paragraph you make you don't know the half of it and the squander of public money, (which is our tax's). I was a Fraud Investigator for many years and uncovered so much fraud and lossages of money from the public purse. Yet my work saved and recovered lots of that money and probably assisted in closing of loop holes as all case results were returned to a central govt department. I also spent 10 years as a Special Constable in the City of London and put my life at risk during the IRA bombings of St Mary Axe & Bishopsgate when I worked full shifts for 7 days. I have done my community service and my bit for my country and the rewards now I am a pensioner= Zilch

Zebedee · Post by **Zebedee** » Tue 30 Oct 2012 12:15 pm

Philoz wrote:Anna-Can I just say that opening a post with the words 'Right then Guys and Gals' is not possibly the best thing to say given the current issues with Jimmy Saviile at the present time.
Just trying to be helpful(In the absence of Keith).
PS
JUST MOVE HERE!

Is that not taking political correctness a bit far.?

Philoz · Post by **Philoz** » Tue 30 Oct 2012 5:13 pm

Was a tongue in cheek comment given the amount of press given to the subject at the moment-I am the most least PC person on this planet !!

Dalartokat · Post by **Dalartokat** » Tue 30 Oct 2012 8:01 pm

Halfful, I would try again.... please read the following links, it may be worth a try.

Here is the claim form for past winters.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Pensionsand ... /DG_198331

Here are the forms
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg ... 180315.pdf

and http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg ... 180314.pdf

Here is the relevant guidance on the matter - DMG 31/12: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/m-31-12.pdf

cyprusishome · Post by **cyprusishome** » Tue 30 Oct 2012 9:13 pm

It is all very well disagreeing, moaning and complaining but "Rules is Rules"!!!!!!
We will receive whatever pittance the powers that be at the time we may be entitled will give us.

annanirvanna · Post by **annanirvanna** » Wed 07 Nov 2012 6:59 am

The latest news article about Winter Fuel Allowance from IExpat's

Winter Fuel Payment Row Hots Up for British Expat Pensioners

Posted: 05 Nov 2012 10:09 PM PST

British state pension benefits claimed by expats are an ‘anomaly’ of the welfare system and a debate should open about whether they are curtailed as part of the austerity program.

Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith was speaking in general about state pension benefits, but gave a clear indication that many policymakers were looking to axe these benefits to claw back £10 billion of savings.

For expats, the state pension is safe – at least for the time being – but the age-related Winter Fuel Payment of £200 – £300 looks certain to go as soon as Duncan Smith can cancel the payment.

He agrees pensioners need the government to safeguard their money as few have the option of working to increase their income.

However, he takes a hard line with wealthy pensioners claiming benefits out of greed rather than necessity and claims their action makes defending their case difficult.

Give the money back
His suggestion is better-off pensioners should hand the money back.

“There are lots of anomalies in the benefits system. We could go almost anywhere to some of the universal nature of some of these benefits,” he said.

The government has recently lost a court case brought by a British pensioner living in Switzerland that demands the winter heating allowance is paid to retirees living in Europe and some other countries, regardless of whether they need it.

“I’d be inclined to send it back. If you honestly think it’s going to pay for your holiday then give it back, because it’s not what it was meant to do,” he said.

Duncan Smith has promised to introduce a weather ruling that stops pensions in warmer countries from claiming the allowance if temperatures do not drop below a certain level.

He also divulged the main reason why he had not acted on cutting benefits like free bus passes and free TV licences was an election pledge made by Prime Minister David Cameron.

Cameron’s assurance
“The reality is this: the Prime Minister absolutely pledged quite categorically at the last election that he would not be interfering with those benefits, which reassured a lot of pensioners and I think if the Prime Minister gives his word on something like that I’m happy to accept it,” he said.

“My view is pensioners don’t have the one option that people of working age have. They can’t really increase their income, because they are no longer able to work.

“Work is transformative. It gives you a greater chance of a greater income. You can affect your life while you’re of working age, so you have scope and opportunity. Pensioners do not.

“We do need to have a little bit more protection and sensibility around pensioners. They are remarkable. They gave so much. We need to make sure we do our best by them.”

The post Winter Fuel Payment Row Hots Up for British Expat Pensioners appeared first on iExpats.com

Halffull · Post by **Halffull** » Wed 07 Nov 2012 7:47 am

As TRNC is not recognised as a legal state by the government, but Cyprus is, and is a member of the EU, then as I live in Cyprus reading the court ruling I should be entitled as I am residing in the EU
But I doubt that will wash with the shiny assed civil servants (who don't know the meaning of the word servant) in the department for pensions

annanirvanna · Post by **annanirvanna** » Wed 07 Nov 2012 9:48 am

Well said halffull - they obviously have plans to carve up our pension rights. Interesting comments within that article such as:-

1. Many policymakers were looking to axe these benefits to claw back £10 billion of savings.
2. For expats, the state pension is safe – at least for the time being

Also Ducan Smith comment in this article "He agrees pensioners need the government to safeguard their money as few have the option of working to increase their income". Is this a 180 degree turnaround to his &/or departments plans to make pensioners work for their SRP doing work in care homes etc?

His statement in this article = Cameron’s assurance
“The reality is this: the Prime Minister absolutely pledged quite categorically at the last election that he would not be interfering with those benefits, which reassured a lot of pensioners and I think if the Prime Minister gives his word on something like that I’m happy to accept it,” he said. What utter drivel he spouts - so planning to abolish Winter Fuel Allowance is NOT interfering, what utter tosh that makes of that statement. It is obvious he is not "happy to accept it" and is smarting from the thrashing his department got from the EU ruling and is actively trying to bring in new rulings so he can go against a legitimate court ruling.

Finally his statement, “We do need to have a little bit more protection and sensibility around pensioners. They are remarkable. They gave so much. We need to make sure we do our best by them.” is utter cheaky and an affront to all pensioners. What a bare faced ----------- statement that is in light of all his sneaky little plans to make rule changes and introduce press ganging community service to allow us to qualify for what we paid into all our lives and is OUR RIGHT to receive without tampering from 'fatwads' who don't have a clue what pensioners endure.

I think I will leave it there as I am getting madder and madder and don't want a coronary, I cannot afford the hospital bills on the pittance the government so very kindly fling my way at present

NOTICE NO smilies - this topic has nothing for us to smile about!!!!!

Halffull · Post by **Halffull** » Thu 08 Nov 2012 12:21 am

I think you will find it was a shiny assed civil servant who retired at 55 on a pension of £100,000 + ( I seem to remember he had been made a knight as well, total waste of space) who made the statement about pensioners working for their state pension
One problem I have is that to fill in the form to claim my allowance I have to give my address, which is Mersin 10 Turkey and we all know if we put Cyprus on our mail it will get lost down south and if I leave it as Turkey then the shiny ass dealing with it will say I'm not entitled as I am in Turkey, plus I have to send my birth cert. which I will never see again if I put Cyprus on my address, can I get a post box over the boarder at the Post Office at the end of Ledra Street?

Halffull · Post by **Halffull** » Thu 08 Nov 2012 2:43 pm

Having just spoken to the pension department dealing with winter fuel and explaining my address as Mersin 10 Turkey she consulted with her manager who said they were aware that this was the address for Northern Cyprus and that we are entitled to claim
Looks like there's a flaw in the system and their not recognising TRNC means we fly the EU flag

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