Plastic bags

[rabbit]

It's time to initiate a discussion about the use of plastic bags for shopping.
Many regulars on this forum are moaning constantly about the appalling
state of the environment. Everywhere rubbish, specially plastic.
Why on earth do I hardly see any (expat)customer in the big supermarkets like
Supreme, Erdener or Shah using their own reusable bags?
Is it all bigotry, ignorance, environmental unawareness or sheer idleness?
rabbit

[Keithcaley]

...Is it all bigotry, ignorance, environmental unawareness or sheer idleness?

That's a big question, I would guess that the answer is 'a bit of all of those things' - much as in the UK, there was a lot of 'noise' on the subject, but bugger all happened until the Government introduced charging for single-use bags.

Perhaps TRNC would benefit from similar legislation - leaving it up to individuals' consciences isn't likely to have much effect!

[helendj]

Sah have already started using reusable bags, and gave us a free one yesterday when shopping; they said other supermarkets will be following suite, so we're going to be using reusable bags as they are trying to phase out plastic carriers - good on them!

[Keithcaley]

helendj - at least it's a start, although if they give them away, people (generally, not you ) will not value them, there will be no incentive to remember to take them to the supermarket, and they will still end up as litter...

The UK model of a small charge for one-use bags, and a reasonable charge for a 'bag for life' would seem to me more likely to have an impact on the quantity of 'abandoned' bags.

[sophie]

Totally agree KC. However sadly there is another side to it. I've asked endless shop owners why they don't supply reuseable bags, the answer is ALWAYS the same "because people use the normal plastic bags for household rubbish" (not least of all chucking them down ravines etc!!) My question is then always the same "why don't they buy black bin liners" because they would have to pay for them and this way they get them for free. Its a vicious circle. Two of the Supermarkets have made a sort of an effort lately. Both Lemar and Tempo are now using biodegrable bags. (Whether they are just experimenting, or whether they are in all shops I don't know). There are some more enlightened shop owers i.e. those that make a real effort and use paper bags!!!!

[EnjoyingTheSun]

It's time to initiate a discussion about the use of plastic bags for shopping.
Many regulars on this forum are moaning constantly about the appalling
state of the environment. Everywhere rubbish, specially plastic.
Why on earth do I hardly see any (expat)customer in the big supermarkets like
Supreme, Erdener or Shah using their own reusable bags?
Is it all bigotry, ignorance, environmental unawareness or sheer idleness?
rabbit

I'm sure most complain about a plastic bag being dropped in a field or beach rather than the actual existence of plastic bags as such.
Use a bin, it's not hard.

As for using re-usable bags, I could never remember the bloody things in England. I had at least 10 bags for life that remained in the boot of my car
I used the spare tyre more often. My memory isn't improving with age.
I would guess a lot like the plastic bags over here for use in the toilet as you can't flush toilet paper?

The whole charging for plastic bags is the usual nanny state with a stealth tax IMO.
I can't be the only person who has noticed that the amount of plastic packaging on goods seems to have increased greatly since the charge for plastic bags came in.
Maybe a rock concert with the message to reduce our carbon footprint may help?
Singers from around the world can fly into the UK, each in their private jet and lecture us while promoting their latest single.

[£eagle]

If supermarkets did not supply any plastic bags you would soon learn to remember to bring your reuseable one.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

If supermarkets did not supply any plastic bags you would soon learn to remember to bring your reuseable one.

If some supermarkets refused to supply plastic bags and other supermarkets did then I and probably a lot of others would go to the ones that did.
They would soon learn to supply plastic bags.

[Kath]

Are you with Trump on global warning enjoying the sun?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Are you with Trump on global warning enjoying the sun?

I think you'll found that since the earth stopped warming, as it periodically does, it's been re-named climate change

Totally agree that climate changes, we called it the weather when I was a lad.

[jackvern]

Rabbit I totally agree with you but this isnt the fault of the supermarkets but the mindless idiots who dispose of them.I personally have use for all the plastic bags my wife brings home and would be lost without them. Why make laws which nobody enforces. Start with the root problem. Most of the rubbish I see is garden refuse or buildings materials. We the caring have to tolerate those mindless lazy and can't be bothered indivuals who continually polute this wonderful country and expect others to clear up their "ooops". Hats of to Germany when I visited there a few years ago the place was clean. Heavy fine for pollution will focus the mind.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Rabbit I totally agree with you but this isnt the fault of the supermarkets but the mindless idiots who dispose of them.I personally have use for all the plastic bags my wife brings home and would be lost without them. Why make laws which nobody enforces. Start with the root problem. Most of the rubbish I see is garden refuse or buildings materials. We the caring have to tolerate those mindless lazy and can't be bothered indivuals who continually polute this wonderful country and expect others to clear up their S**t. Hats of to Germany when I visited there a few years ago the place was clean. Heavy fine for pollution will focus the mind.

What are you saying, punish the guilty rather than inconvenience the all????

It's revolutionary, it's out there, some may call it fascism, but it may just work!

[tingtang]

On the South side the Supermarkets no longer provide carrier bags, you either take your own or buy a 'bag for life'

It was announced in UK last week that the charge for carriers is to be increased from 5p to 10p. With that sort of tax revenue that they will accrue it is highly unlikely that the UK Gv't will ever ban them.
tt.

[jofra]

To link the avowed determination to continue using plastic bags with global warming (or "climate change") is ludicrous - while the production of these may be a contributory factor to the aforesaid, an insistence that "I WILL use plastic bags", regardless of how it affects life in all forms and ways is a totally different - and blind, ignorant, foolhardy and especially selfish - matter....

[rabbit]

In Germany you pay since mid of1970 or so for plastic bags.
It has reduced the amount of bags a lot. Many people shop
with their own cotton bags.
If you read about the enormous problem plastic causes
all over the world and specially in the oceans (also in the
food chain) you wouldn't touch it at all.
In my list of reasons why people don't bother here I forgot:
Sheer stupidity.-
rabbit

[Mowgli597]

While agreeing with the sentiments generally expressed one thing has always puzzled me.

Those who advocate not giving bags for free, when told that people use them for bin liners, say why not let people buy bin liners instead.

But they’re just plastic bags which end up in the landfill sites just the same, surely.

Or am I missing something?

[kibsolar1999]

eg, in germany politics educated the public.. but not the industry. germanies plastic use is over european average.. basically everything is covered in plastics.
in TRNC, a couple of days ago, i (nearly) was forced to put 100 grams of ginger in a plastic bag. my fish ended up in 3 plastic bags. beef is put on a plastic foam tray with plastic cover in a plastic bag which comes into a separate plastic bag.
if all continues as today, in 2040? we will have more plastic in the seas as fish.
"plastics" are valuable stuff. we rely on them. eg, for medication.
8% of the oil production (2010) is used for chemicals incl plastics.

the difference of "wheather" and "climate change" is well known and proved, but not accepted from people who are not interested in and- or choose to believe in "alternative facts". because, eg, it is "inconvinient" to change mind (and behaviour) and "just easier" to keep the status quo.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

While agreeing with the sentiments generally expressed one thing has always puzzled me.

Those who advocate not giving bags for free, when told that people use them for bin liners, say why not let people buy bin liners instead.

But they’re just plastic bags which end up in the landfill sites just the same, surely.

Or am I missing something?

No you are using practical logic about something that is more virtue signalling than anything.
As usual with these things they try to solve a problem in the wrong way.

Yes there is polution because there are slobs who will just dump their rubbish where they chose.
So you could bring in draconian fines for litterbugs but the authorities are generally to cowardly to tackle a problem head on. So they fine everybody by charging for carrier bags.

It's a bit like the ineffective teacher who keeps everybody after school rather than punish the disruptive pupil.

I'm sure everyone finds dog mess in public areas offensive. So do we heavily fine those antisocial enough not to clear up after their dog or do we solve the problem by banning dogs?


Plastic isn't the most beautiful thing ever invented and personally I think a strong paper bag would often suffice but plastic is cheap, plentiful, convenient and so has made a lot of things affordable for ordinary people that wouldn't have been.

That's the key word, ordinary people. The most vocal virtue signalling greens don't care about ordinary people.
An analysis by the National Center for Public Policy Research found that Al Gore's Tennessee home "guzzles more electricity in one year than the average American family uses in 21 years."
The upper middle class greens will bemoan budget airlines such as Easyjet for the increase in flights because they can afford to travel without them. After all do working class herberts really need a foreign holiday?

Anyhow I await this post to be reported by someone who can't fashion a rebuttal so favours censorship.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

the difference of "wheather" and "climate change" is well known and proved, but not accepted from people who are not interested in and- or choose to believe in "alternative facts". because, eg, it is "inconvinient" to change mind (and behaviour) and "just easier" to keep the status quo.

It's well known but propaganda isn't scientific proof so isn't accepted by many.
The hockey stick graph which is very 'well known' has been totally debunked.
There aren't alternative facts there are abstract theories and realities.

We are now talking about climate change because global warming which apparently was irreversible actually stopped.
The Earth's temperature has gone up and down throughout known history. We had much higher and lower temperatures hundreds years before plastics, cars, aeroplanes etc etc etc were even thought of.
It's not inconvenient to change course but I think we should be careful before the world commits itself to spending hundreds of trillions of dollars fumbling around on a course that is merely fashionable.

What is an inconvenient truth is many of Al Gore's predictions of 2006 were pure bunk and rather than the enviroment falling of a cliff within ten years it has improved without any 'green' help. Politicians like Gore just like to spend our money so this whole climate change bit is a gift to them.


But if real scientists, not publicity seekers, can fashion a rocket that can pop up the Sun and adjust it so the Earth remains at a perfect temperature for a cost that won't send all of our economies back to the Dark Ages, sign me up.

But forgive me if I'm a little cautious about bankrupting the world's economies because some scientists have a theory which will no doubt change in several trillion dollars time.

if all continues as today, in 2040? we will have more plastic in the seas as fish.

I've read 2050 but I wouldn't argue I'm sure there are a few dates.
I admire the tactics to now put some long timescales on these warnings of doom. Nice to see they have learnt from the danger of going for the more dramatic ten year warnings which blow up in your face after twelve years.

[sophie]

Re paper bags. I can remember going back years and years watching American movies when everyone seemed to struggle out of Supermarkets (an almost unheard of word in UK in those days) with large paper bags and thinking they were nuts. I had come home carrying my goods from a small corner shop which had been weighed out into paper bags, as with veg and fruit and then I carried the lot back in my woven bamboo or wicker basket. Thinking back I'm not sure how I did it, but we still lived very well and never went hungry. Although people did get thumped a bit when trying to walk along a crowded pavement.
If anyone thinks the above scenario resembles Open All Hours, I'm not saying which of the characters my Mother and I were.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

On the South side the Supermarkets no longer provide carrier bags, you either take your own or buy a 'bag for life'

It was announced in UK last week that the charge for carriers is to be increased from 5p to 10p. With that sort of tax revenue that they will accrue it is highly unlikely that the UK Gv't will ever ban them.
tt.

The whole carrier bag thing is an EU directive so must be obeyed at all times vithout question.

Yes it's interesting that more tax and more government spending is the only possible cure ever.

[kayc]

if there was just a "END DAY" for one-time use plastic bags.. and markets ceased supplying them for all reasons. I remember wrapping the garbage waste in old newspapers.. they are biodegradable at least.

Reusable cloth shopping bags are the answer... as far as the grocery stores... but what about the vendors at the bazaars? That's a problem for them