The mountian road to Girne past the 5 Fingers

kayc · Post by **kayc** » Wed 03 Oct 2018 7:02 pm

This road is DANGEROUS! OMG! The speeding big gravel trucks, the careless speeding drivers make this road a recipe for disaster. It is no wonder there are so many crashes and deaths on this stretch of road.

I won't drive it again. My knuckles were white by the time I got into Girne.

Panchocat · Post by **Panchocat** » Wed 03 Oct 2018 7:50 pm

A well known dangerous road which is precisely why it is being improved currently. I stay calm, sit behind vehicles and watch the idiots doing kamikaze manoeuvres on blind corners. People seem to be impatient and in a rush on most of the roads here.

Philoz · Post by **Philoz** » Wed 03 Oct 2018 8:40 pm

Yes, that road is indeed a heady mix of slow moving rock laden trucks and fast moving taxis-the latter going as fast as possible,and the former going as slow as possible.
They do however possess several common Cypriot driving traits-

1.ensure that you are on the phone,eating a sandwich drinking coffee whilst endeavouring to accomplish a complex multi vehicle overtaking manoeuvre.

2.Only ever overtake on blind bends.

3.Do slow right down then speed right up as often as possible in order to confuse the following vehicle.

4.Your vehicle is fitted with indicators-remember never to use them as often as possible.

5.If pulling out of a side road,make sure you only pull out just in front of an approaching vehicle,especially if there is nothing behind the approaching vehicle for the next two miles.

6. Remember it is compulsory to use a phone at all times whilst attempting to drive.

7.compensate for the fact you only have one working headlight by ensuring the remaining one is permanently on full beam.

8. Show other road users that you have mastered and understood the purpose of your indicators by leaving them on permanently-remember to alternate them on a daily basis.

9.Upon purchasing your vehicle,make sure you disconnect your brake lights-they waste electricity,and put unnecessary wear on the bulbs-drivers following you will much appreciate having their reflexes tested at regular intervals,and thank you gratefully for improving their driving skills.

I think I've covered everything-anything else to add?

Philoz · Post by **Philoz** » Wed 03 Oct 2018 9:10 pm

I forgot a couple-
10. when parking your car (especially in supermarket car parks) ensure you park as if you have had scalding hot liquid poured on your testicles,and you have vacated your vehicle at great speed,resulting in you parking diagonally across 3 parking bays.
11.BMW & Mercedes drivers-arrogantly park directly across the exit to the supermarket (regardless of how empty the car park is) resulting in difficulty for any one attempting to leave the supermarket.

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Wed 03 Oct 2018 9:38 pm

All of this is why (as a swallow) I LOVE driving here; back in the UK you drive expecting that every other driver is a (relatively) sensible, considerate, law-abiding individual, conversant with the Highway Code (apart from mobile phone usage).
However, here you do not have to worry about a "Highway Code", and so you just have to accept that other road users can and will do anything....
To repeat - over here, I am much more relaxed as I am prepared for anything and everything, whilst in the UK, I have to be prepared for the "unexpected"....

kayc · Post by **kayc** » Wed 03 Oct 2018 9:57 pm

WoW, all of this and more...SPOT ON! Where is the police or the highway patrol or is there no such thing here? I've been here for 2 years and doubt if I've seen more than 12 cop cars that entire time and certainly NONE on that road ever.

Today I came back to Lefcosia on the hwy past St. Hilarion - it's got road work going on so half the road is closed resulting in meeting oncoming traffic. Some idiot passed me driving on the shoulder of the road and he was really really going fast!

I'm of the belief people here think they are immune from death, they don't seem to have a sense of danger or something. Strange.

I've driven the expressways in Chicago during rush hour, 6 lanes going in 1 direction and I thought that was a nightmare.... it doesn't hold a candle to the driving here. INSANE!

ttoli · Post by **ttoli** » Thu 04 Oct 2018 1:10 am

Kayc, It is a part of life here , accept and adapt

Mr Mac · Post by **Mr Mac** » Thu 04 Oct 2018 5:07 am

Philoz, brilliant and how about :

13. No lane discipline, I own the road and will drive whichever side suits, especially on roundabouts - oh and I don't understand I have to give way to the car on the roundabout (the one near Upper Crust East side is lethal!)

14. Have difficulty turning the wheel especially when turning right into a road

15. If a car is indicating right, I can overtake him on the right cos I want to!

16. The traffic lights are pretty colours, but I don't have to obey them especially if it is on red, there are no cameras and no police so it doesn't matter.

I once asked my TC neighbour why the police cars here have their flashing lights on all the time, and she said it is so the TCs know they are there!!

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Thu 04 Oct 2018 7:04 am

All good comments - and yet you all survive! Strange that, does it mean you are all better drivers than the rest or that you are just lucky?

When I first trained for HGV3 I was told to always think 3 vehicles ahead, then during HGV2 training that became 5 vehicles - that number stayed the same for HGV1 - that advice has carried me through many years and I recommend it to all drivers.

Have driven here now for many years and so far my accidents number only 3 - one hit from behind at a crossroads by a transit van because I was stopped at the time I suspect, one hit in the rear by a taxi who had flashed and then waved me across in front of him (he did apologise) and one where I hit the side of another car coming towards me round a blind bend whilst the driver was texting on her mobile phone and did not see me!

I take responsibility for being hit by the taxi - never trust the other driver - but the other two were out of my control completely - happy to say no injuries incurred in any of them and life just went on with handshakes and a smile. Scrapes and bumps on all vehicles but so what, better to be the vehicles than people!

Drive with your eyes wide open, expect the unexpected, read the traffic as far ahead as you can, always use your mirrors before you do anything, don't drink and drive AT ALL, watch for reflections/scooters/pedestrians/animals/children, it is easy to drive here so long as you remember that you are driving for everyone and not just for yourself. Stay safe out there people, better to arrive five minutes late in heaven than five minutes early in the other place!!!!!

Mr Mac · Post by **Mr Mac** » Thu 04 Oct 2018 7:17 am

I think your last paragraph says it all Waddo - you just have to have your wits about you, be aware and expect the unexpected!! Another TC friend said to me that TC drivers drive and manoeuvre on impulse which I think in light of all our comments pretty well sums it up!

Geoff1131 · Post by **Geoff1131** » Thu 04 Oct 2018 7:47 am

Before i passed my driving test. My instructor told me, there are two types of road users. There are drivers and there are aimers. In Cyprus there seems to be more aimers than drivers.

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Thu 04 Oct 2018 8:00 am

kayc wrote:...I'm of the belief people here think they are immune from death, they don't seem to have a sense of danger or something...

Ah well, that's the Muslim philosophy, have you never heard the expression "insha'Allah"? - it's the Arabic language expression for "God willing" or "if God wills". ... It expresses the belief that nothing happens unless God wills it and that his will supersedes all human will - so what's the point of you, personally, worrying about it, or attempting to assume responsibility for your own actions, when God will dictate the outcome...

EnjoyingTheSun · Post by **EnjoyingTheSun** » Thu 04 Oct 2018 8:23 am

Mr Mac wrote:Philoz, brilliant and how about :

13. No lane discipline, I own the road and will drive whichever side suits, especially on roundabouts - oh and I don't understand I have to give way to the car on the roundabout (the one near Upper Crust East side is lethal!)

14. Have difficulty turning the wheel especially when turning right into a road

15. If a car is indicating right, I can overtake him on the right cos I want to!

16. The traffic lights are pretty colours, but I don't have to obey them especially if it is on red, there are no cameras and no police so it doesn't matter.

I once asked my TC neighbour why the police cars here have their flashing lights on all the time, and she said it is so the TCs know they are there!!

17. Despite you buying a 12 year old car with tyre tread thinner than a boarding house scrape of butter under no circumstances carry out any maintenance until the next MOT is due in 3 years. Then just clean the engine.

18. When carrying out a manouvere always assume the driver of the car you are pulling out in front of has the reactions speed of Roger Federer and the reflexes of Lewis Hamilton and he should just about miss you. Hopefully.

19. Although you have never had a lesson and only passed your 5 minute driving test by bunging the examiner 50 lire, that should not stop you buying a Ferrari as your first car.

20. Under no circumstances consider other road users it will only delay your 8 minute journey.

21. Despite drivers with a British licence having passed a proper driving test the Government should target them when trying to reduce car accidents and insist they need to take the 5 minute TRNC driving test.

22. Rather than reduce cars on the road to cut congestion or maximise revenue by enforcing the payment of road tax, build more dual carriageways.

Kanonier · Post by **Kanonier** » Thu 04 Oct 2018 8:31 am

waddo wrote:All good comments - and yet you all survive! Strange that, does it mean you are all better drivers than the rest or that you are just lucky?

When I first trained for HGV3 I was told to always think 3 vehicles ahead, then during HGV2 training that became 5 vehicles - that number stayed the same for HGV1 - that advice has carried me through many years and I recommend it to all drivers.
Drive with your eyes wide open, expect the unexpected, read the traffic as far ahead as you can, always use your mirrors before you do anything, don't drink and drive AT ALL, watch for reflections/scooters/pedestrians/animals/children, it is easy to drive here so long as you remember that you are driving for everyone and not just for yourself. Stay safe out there people, better to arrive five minutes late in heaven than five minutes early in the other place!!!!!

100% spot on!

rowan · Post by **rowan** » Thu 04 Oct 2018 9:58 am

I know it is serious subject but all the posts brought a smile to my face.

jayceebee · Post by **jayceebee** » Thu 04 Oct 2018 10:07 am

Apart from all the problems mentioned, we wont use the road again mainly because of the dust from all the quarries!
We used it to go to Eroklu supermarket a few months ago and by the time we got there we were both coughing and spluttering!

kayc · Post by **kayc** » Thu 04 Oct 2018 11:47 am

Defensive driving is the best advice, still I shutter to think what my options would be if one of those big gravel hauling trucks came over the line. There is no where to escape and not guard rails along the entire road. Eeeeek!

On a side note, I enjoyed a lovely dinner at the Buffavento Restaurant

pc4854 · Post by **pc4854** » Thu 04 Oct 2018 11:51 am

Think you have forgotten the woman driver with a phone to her ear, supporting a very young child on one knee and steering wit the other knee. Oh Gosh, she's just gone past again.

MoonageDaydream · Post by **MoonageDaydream** » Sat 06 Oct 2018 5:31 pm

To get back on topic......

This is a seriously bad road, its full of potholes and subsidence, there are bits that have collapsed, and some of the 'escape routes' do not have the sand in them to do the job. There are also too many quarry lorries on it (probably the reasons the road has collapsed in also many places). Although an alternative route is supposedly being built we have no opening date.

For the moment I won't use this road, I value my life and my safety too much, I use either the Lefkosha-Kyrenia route or the Gecitkale-Kucuk Erenkoy pass. They are just as quick (when you factor in time spent queuing behind crawling lorries on the mountain road) and better for your peace of mind.

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Sat 06 Oct 2018 5:38 pm

And the Cyprus Today newspaper reports that tourists and those hiring cars are to be given a paper giving advice on driving in North Cyprus. Sadly it just made me smile.

All the points listed are clearly being flouted every single day.

If only the police would enforce the rules things may slooooowly get better.

Navek · Post by **Navek** » Sat 06 Oct 2018 6:18 pm

I had a very scary experexperience on that road, one morning.
I was stuck behind a very slow moving van.
Saw the road was clear.
Indicated, moved out, as quick as I could.
Put the foot down.
After I was past the van I was overtaking,
noticed a very large laden lorry in front of me,
barely moving.
No room to overtake him.
Going too fast to stop.
Jammed on the brakes.
Ended up sliding sideways towards
the slow moving lorry, thinking,
Your times up.
As I neared the large lorry,
I managed to slow down
and straighten up,
I lived to drive another day.
Overtook him on the next straight.
Even when you think all is OK.
There's always something there to test your mettle!

EnjoyingTheSun · Post by **EnjoyingTheSun** » Sat 06 Oct 2018 6:50 pm

PoshinDevon wrote:And the Cyprus Today newspaper reports that tourists and those hiring cars are to be given a paper giving advice on driving in North Cyprus. Sadly it just made me smile.

All the points listed are clearly being flouted every single day.

If only the police would enforce the rules things may slooooowly get better.

I assume the advice is don't.

I would love to know where they get their statistics that show that the British are responsible for the car accidents and stray dogs.
Dianne Abbott?

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Sat 06 Oct 2018 6:52 pm

I won’t use that road, sadly it has worsened over the years.

Much better to go via Girne to Lefkosa or out to Tatlisu wa y and head thro the pass to Geticale.

ttoli · Post by **ttoli** » Sat 06 Oct 2018 8:54 pm

Navek wrote:I had a very scary experexperience on that road, one morning.
I was stuck behind a very slow moving van.
Saw the road was clear.
Indicated, moved out, as quick as I could.
Put the foot down.
After I was past the van I was overtaking,
noticed a very large laden lorry in front of me,
barely moving.
No room to overtake him.
Going too fast to stop.
Jammed on the brakes.
Ended up sliding sideways towards
the slow moving lorry, thinking,
Your times up.
As I neared the large lorry,
I managed to slow down
and straighten up,
I lived to drive another day.
Overtook him on the next straight.
Even when you think all is OK.
There's always something there to test your mettle!

So you moved out to overtake ,failed to see the Large Laden Lorry in front of you?,

Navek · Post by **Navek** » Sat 06 Oct 2018 10:07 pm

Hi ttoli,
I did see it, I just didn't realise it was going so slow.

Chriswright03 · Post by **Chriswright03** » Sun 07 Oct 2018 4:16 pm

Roads are not dangerous. It is the people who use them that cause the problems. Like any other road if you drive it taking into account all of the conditions there really should not be a problem.

I have driven it on a number of occasions recently and yes there are a lot of heavy lorries using it travelling very slowly up and down hill but they have never presented me with any situation that I found to be dangerous. They will to some of the drivers I have seen who are sat right up behind them with no possibility of a view beyond them hence making an overtake dangerous because they cannot see if anything is coming as they pull out. That does not make the road dangerous it makes what they do dangerous.

Navek if you were following a very slow moving van and saw a lorry in front of it did you not think for a moment a heavy lorry might be moving slower than the van and be the cause of the slow moving van? From what you describe you put yourself in that position and that does not make the road dangerous. Just saying!

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Sun 07 Oct 2018 4:37 pm

Chriswright03 wrote:Roads are not dangerous. It is the people who use them that cause the problems. Like any other road if you drive it taking into account all of the conditions there really should not be a problem.

I have driven it on a number of occasions recently and yes there are a lot of heavy lorries using it travelling very slowly up and down hill but they have never presented me with any situation that I found to be dangerous. They will to some of the drivers I have seen who are sat right up behind them with no possibility of a view beyond them hence making an overtake dangerous because they cannot see if anything is coming as they pull out. That does not make the road dangerous it makes what they do dangerous.

Navek if you were following a very slow moving van and saw a lorry in front of it did you not think for a moment a heavy lorry might be moving slower than the van and be the cause of the slow moving van? From what you describe you put yourself in that position and that does not make the road dangerous. Just saying!

Unfortunately the road itself is dangerous in places with deep ruts, incorrect camber and often mud and debris etc across it. Add to this the fully laden or possibly over laden slow lorries up and down, plus the empty lorries powering there way up....then there are the taxis and other vehicles who are more than happy to intimidate by driving close to the rear of your vehicle and for me it makes this road one to be avoided if possible.

You can take all the precautions you want but there is always one lunatic who will endanger others and if it’s on a very poor part of the road it makes taking avoiding action almost impossible.

I remember being taken up this road just after it opened as we transferred back to Ercan airport for a flight....the road was hailed as a revelation however less than a year later the local papers ran stories about how poorly built it was and the crazy driving.

Chriswright03 · Post by **Chriswright03** » Sun 07 Oct 2018 7:40 pm

A lot of what you say about the condition of the road could make it difficult but unless you hail from a different part of the UK I would suggest many of the roads there are in such a state as well. That does not make them dangerous just means you have to be aware of the condition and deal with it accordingly.

I could just as easily say driving in the TRNC is dangerous if you are referring to the driving standards. If you are on about the very heavily laden lorries going up and down at a snails pace then they are a problem especially like one I saw parked up the other day with a hole I could have put my fist in the offside wall of the drivers side front tyre. The fact that they seem to rely on crawler gear rather than use the brakes which leads me to assume they are incapable of coping with the loads. Or maybe the fact that some of the very heavy loads are not even tied on which I would state is extremely dangerous. Yes there is a lot to think about but I still maintain that the road in itself is not dangerous. Yes it could be in a better condition but if driven with a sense of self preservation there should be no real cause for concern.

Semantics you may think but I maintain it is what people do on the roads and not roads that are dangerous.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Sun 07 Oct 2018 7:58 pm

Chriswright03, At last some common sense, well done. Drive to the conditions of the road at all times, expect the unexpected! It is after all a heavily used mountain road in an underdeveloped country, what would you expect but rocks and mud along with broken down vehicles on that sort of road. No roads in this country or in the RoC are properly cambered anyway, expect them all to be flat or adverse and drive accordingly. It is not difficult to be careful and leave space in front of you for the "working" taxi to get into. Most of us are retired - not all I realise - so what is your hurry?

Navek · Post by **Navek** » Mon 08 Oct 2018 5:52 am

Yes 100% my fault.
I'd never come across a vehicle so loaded,
50% to 100% at least overloaded, or more.
Driving so slow on a public road.
In hindsight, if I had carried on,
and overtaken the lorry too,
there would not have been a problem.

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Mon 08 Oct 2018 7:07 am

My point is that the road itself is dangerous.

As I mentioned in an earlier post I travelled up the very same road barely a week after it had opened and yes at the time it was hailed as a revelation. It looked great. However a year later it was proven that the road itself was poorly built and was unable to take the weight of the lorries driving up and down it and in various sections on both sides of the mountain deep ruts have formed. At the time the papers ran stories about how quickly the road had disintegrated.

Of course it is to be expected that the roads in North Cyprus may not be up to the so called standard of more developed countries and yes I agree everyone should drive accordingly. However; no matter how careful you are if you have to take avoiding action due to some lunatic, it is made all the more difficult if you happen to be on the bits that have deep ruts in them or a pile of debris in the way. Trying to make a turn out of one of these ruts is very difficult and can throw the steering all over the place resulting in the vehicle not travelling in the direction intended. So a culmination of a very poorly built road, overladen vehicles and even poorer driving standards makes this one which is to be avoided if at all possible. At night driving up or down it can be an “experience” not to be repeated.

Chriswright03 · Post by **Chriswright03** » Mon 08 Oct 2018 2:10 pm

I accept that the condition of the road is shocking in places but then as I said in a previous post so are many of the main roads in the UK. Massive pot holes and ruts exist on UK roads but maybe not quite as bad as these. I also accept that at night it will be much worse. I think one of the main problems is that there is subsidence in places no doubt not helped by the large lorries plying their trade. Are they over weight? Who knows. I doubt that anyone weighs them to check.

Perhaps it is best we agree to disagree re the road itself being dangerous. My point being that in the UK many roads are stated to be dangerous because a lot of accidents occurred on them and some of them fatal. The fact that drivers on these roads have made errors odes not make the road dangerous. It is a mute point really as those who think it is dangerous will not be persuaded otherwise. So best leave it at that.

I have travelled it both ways today and had a safe drive with great views and without a concern. I will continue to use it but accept your decision not to do so and your reasons for same even if I cannot agree.

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Mon 08 Oct 2018 7:00 pm

Happy to agree that we disagree. Both for good reason in my opinion.

The indicator · Post by **The indicator** » Mon 08 Oct 2018 8:50 pm

Keithcaley wrote:
kayc wrote:...I'm of the belief people here think they are immune from death, they don't seem to have a sense of danger or something...
Ah well, that's the Muslim philosophy, have you never heard the expression "insha'Allah"? - it's the Arabic language expression for "God willing" or "if God wills". ... It expresses the belief that nothing happens unless God wills it and that his will supersedes all human will - so what's the point of you, personally, worrying about it, or attempting to assume responsibility for your own actions, when God will dictate the outcome...

What a silly comment, incha Allah “God willing” is an expression Muslim use about immediate or far away future.
As no one knows what will happened in immediate future or far away Muslims always use Insha Allah.

To say Muslims put them self and others in danger with disregards to others in any walk of life just by saying incha allah that is ridicolous. No one goes out behaving in a such a way of thinking if god is not willing me to have anything happened to me so it will not.

Some people drive like lunatics and putting them self and others in danger is to do with education/ignorance . Simple

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Mon 08 Oct 2018 10:08 pm

By far the worst situation for me is when you are driving up to the speed limit and you suddenly notice a huge Lorry almost scraping your rear end and you need to turn off at an upcoming side road. The driver cannot see you indicating and you dare not slow down aaargh. I have put " my foot down" on previous occasions but found myself miles away from my intended journey. Reminds me of a certain Film the name of which escapes me for now.

erol · Post by **erol** » Mon 08 Oct 2018 11:24 pm

munchy wrote: Reminds me of a certain Film the name of which escapes me for now.

Duel perhaps ? (very early spielberg movie)

Keithcaley · Post by **Keithcaley** » Tue 09 Oct 2018 4:43 am

Speed?

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Tue 09 Oct 2018 5:54 am

I use it several times a year because its quicker for me. I always keep my distance from anyone and never overtake unless its on a straight section where I can see oncoming traffic. In my experience it is normally taxis and small tour buses that cause the problems most of the time as they appear to be late getting to the airport. I find it much quicker than going the long way round which can take me an hour and a half with Lefkosia traffic as against 40 mins to Ercan from where I live.

munchy · Post by **munchy** » Tue 09 Oct 2018 6:09 am

Erol,
Yes, that s the one with Dennis Weaver. Worth watching, just to put "the wind up" everyone.

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