Subject matter

[13roman58]

At one point all subject matter that was in the wrong place used to be redirected !
Ie sales/wanted but we are are all equal but some are more equal than others.

[Keithcaley]

It's all down to those poor overworked mods, and us lazy posters...

I really dislike the 'separate forums' concept, but there's nothing to be done about it, 'cos that's the way that Soner likes it! - and I know that some members hate seeing the general section looking like Exchange and Mart.

I've just posted a 'Sales' item in the general section, and I fully expect it to disappear from general view fairly shortly

I think that it is down to which mods happen to be online at any particular time, and whether they start with the oldest posts first. It is a thankless job, not one that I'd like!

[erol]

For the record I long long ago effectively gave up trying to move such posts at all, let alone in a perfectly equitable manner, in to their correct places in the face of so many people just ignoring Soner's request to do so and in the full knowledge of such a request from him.

Instead I now follow a personal policy of trying to not answer questions that I could answers in threads where the original poster has posted in the wrong section with 'knowledge' (that soner would prefer otherwise) and with 'intent' (that their post gets special treatment) until someone else moves them. Almost certainly this policy is no more effective in getting people to just post in the right sections in the first place but it is certainly a massively easier one for me to follow that does not take hours of thankless unpaid effort on my part and is also easier to be 'consistent' about too boot.

Other mods can do and will adopt their own policies.

[Keithcaley]

Oh dear!

Sorry!

[PoshinDevon]

Topic has been debated many times.

Personally I like the different sections as it does mean if I am looking for a motor to buy its should be in the motors section, or maybe a mobile phone query in the mobile section, but understand that others prefer everything to be mixed in together.

It very much depends when moderators are on line as to when and how quickly posts are moved to the correct areas. It’s not a top priority task but when I am on line I always start with active topics and then work down the page, moving topics as necessary.

We are of course human and do miss topics and they never get moved at all.

[sophie]

I don't like the General Section resembling Exchange and Mart. It doesn't take too much brain work to ascertain whether you want to Sell or Buy and Item, or whether its a question about Mobile phones etc. Much tidier when there are sections.

[Keithcaley]

I don't like the General Section resembling Exchange and Mart. It doesn't take too much brain work to ascertain whether you want to Sell or Buy and Item, or whether its a question about Mobile phones etc. Much tidier when there are sections.

Yes Ma'am, sorry Ma'am, won't do it again Ma'am...

p.s. Do you want to buy a nice table and 4 chairs, by any chance?

[sophie]

No KC, not at the moment. I wouldn't buy a second hand car from you either.

[Keithcaley]

Oooooooh!

[Ragged Robin]

I took me something like a year to discover where the lists of the different Boards were - maybe some people still haven't - in which case, there is one in the centre introduction page and one on the left-hand side. In both cases of rare in small print and pale blue colour - not easily noticed and not kind to those with poor sight. The one on the left hand side is not even in alphabetical order and it can take a while to sort out which is appropriate to one's needs. Furthermore the adverts on the headings are so obstrusive that they distract the eye and the attention from the main purpose of the Board. I dont think it is really surprising that newcomers or infequent visitors may be unaware of the different subject Board or not know how to find them.

[tomsteel]

I took me something like a year to discover where the lists of the different Boards were - maybe some people still haven't - in which case, there is one in the centre introduction page and one on the left-hand side. In both cases of rare in small print and pale blue colour - not easily noticed and not kind to those with poor sight. The one on the left hand side is not even in alphabetical order and it can take a while to sort out which is appropriate to one's needs. Furthermore the adverts on the headings are so obstrusive that they distract the eye and the attention from the main purpose of the Board. I dont think it is really surprising that newcomers or infequent visitors may be unaware of the different subject Board or not know how to find them.

Perhaps a PM to Soner with your suggested improvements?

[Kanonier]

Oooooooh!

Have you got a second hand car for sale?

[PoshinDevon]

Across the top in blue the main forum page, active topics page etc are the different categories in alphabetical order.

Whether blue is a good colour of course is open for debate, personally I have no issues with it. No doubt if the colour was changed some members would find it not as easy to read/see. Some may say that the “font” for the different categories is small, however you do have to remember that compromises have to be made to ensure everything fits onto each board.

Down the side of each main page and across the top are sponsored adverts for different companies. Advertising space is bought and paid for by these companies and of course the revenue generated helps to keep this board going. They are not in any order but selling advertising space is the reason why this board has flourished and grown.

However; I am sure any sensible suggestions would be considered by Soner and if possible implemented providing it was seen to be of benefit to the majority of the members.

[Ragged Robin]

To clarify I was not objecting to the colour blue per se, just pointing out that the faintness of the colour against a white background, and particularly in a small size might make it difficult for some to see I actually like the colour ! but in a darker shade and a larger size it would be less likely to be overlooked.s I have no intention to enter into another argument on the subject: just pointing out that unless you make the instructions easy to read and follow it is hardly a it is hardly fair to complain if they arent followed
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I have offered suggestions before but they have been ill received. In any case I have no expertise at all of designing web pages (just a small amount of experience in designing posters for legibility and to emphasise the salient points) I would need to work with an expert to make practicalble suggestions, except that if those responsible thought a little more about the abilities and needs of the users problems such as putting items in the wrong place might be minimised. The use of colour is s subject in itself but in an area where nothing will be perfect contrast will in most cases clarify and hightlight the important .

It is only too obvious that income is the imporant issue for management and that of course is their prerogative. Whether what results can be described as "flourishing" and whether the advertising need be done in a manner which diverts from the use of the forum. is a matter of opionion. Personally I find most of the advertising so brash it actually puts me off the product, but that is a point of view - it would be interesting to hear others.

[PoshinDevon]

To clarify I was not objecting to the colour blue per se, just pointing out that the faintness of the colour against a white background, and particularly in a small size might make it difficult for some to see I actually like the colour ! but in a darker shade and a larger size it would be less likely to be overlooked.s I have no intention to enter into another argument on the subject: just pointing out that unless you make the instructions easy to read and follow it is hardly a it is hardly fair to complain if they arent followed
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I have offered suggestions before but they have been ill received. In any case I have no expertise at all of designing web pages (just a small amount of experience in designing posters for legibility and to emphasise the salient points) I would need to work with an expert to make practicalble suggestions, except that if those responsible thought a little more about the abilities and needs of the users problems such as putting items in the wrong place might be minimised. The use of colour is s subject in itself but in an area where nothing will be perfect contrast will in most cases clarify and hightlight the important .

It is only too obvious that income is the imporant issue for management and that of course is their prerogative. Whether what results can be described as "flourishing" and whether the advertising need be done in a manner which diverts from the use of the forum. is a matter of opionion. Personally I find most of the advertising so brash it actually puts me off the product, but that is a point of view - it would be interesting to hear others.

I don’t believe any of the moderators are complaining if people don’t post in the correct section. In the grand scheme of things it’s not something to worry about. I will say that over the last year or so, I have noticed that most people do try and post in the correct section. If they don’t then usually/eventually they will be moved when moderators have time.

Suggestions that are submitted are considered, some are implemented whereas others may be to difficult from a technical perspective. In fact RR, the Disability Matters section was quickly implemented (Within a week if my memory serves me correctly) after you had suggested it. In the past Soner and the technical team have created extra areas on the forum to accommodate a particular topic at the request of members and also deleted areas which were not being used.

As for money/sponsorship from advertising; it is necessary evil as some may say, without it the forum would not exist. There are charges that need to be paid, not only for the hosting of the forum, updating the layout/look and of course most importantly to try and prevent hacking and disruption. A quick look at those advertising on the forum will show many high profile well known local companies and organisations. Attracting these companies is down to the hard work of the those working behind the scenes and of course it just shows how well thought of and useful this forum is to those companies. A forum that is unstable and not working is of no use to a company advertising its services. Of course the advert must attract attention and whilst it may not appeal to everyone, it obviously has to stand out as no company would consider advertising on a forum that was not high profile and beneficial to them.

No suggestions are off limits and I would encourage any member to throw in ideas but be prepared and don’t be offended if they are not implemented for many sensible reasons. I hope the information I have given helps you and other members understand a little more about how the forum operates and keeps going. For anything more in depth please make contact with Soner who will no doubt give more detail.

Nothing is perfect but this forum undoubtably works!

[Keithcaley]

I'm feeling more and more guilty for placing my advert in the 'general' section.

When I think back, I do remember Erol telling me about his policy, which in the heat of the moment, I entirely disregarded.

Selfishness?

Disregard for the work that I caused the mods?

Disrespect for the Forum Owner's wishes?

Sheer cussedness?

Take your pick - "Guilty as charged"

Once again, I apologise.

I resolve to try harder in future!

p.s. Would YOU like to buy a nice table and chairs?

[Ragged Robin]

I should make it clear that I was commenting on the first post here as a matter of general interest and had not realised who was the actual culprit in this case, but it is perhaps reassuring to realise even Homer nods and the Gods have feet of clay!

My point , which I might not have made clear, is that the problem of misposting is probably occurring because people do not understand the way the forum is made up. The fact that the current culprit turns out to be a long standing and experienced poster who should have known better and can now be sent to the bottom of the class may have mislead.

As far as advertising is concerned to my mind it is a matter of horse and cart. It should be understood that advertising is the horse is pulling the cart, not the cart heavily overloaded pushing the horse into the ditch. imho if advertising distracts from the main content of the forum the design might be reconsidered.

As for the Disability Forum as far as I am concerned what went wrong is spilled milk and I have no intention of attracting further distressing personal attacks by discussing it further.

However my original intention of suggesting a forum for disability concerns was to collate all the information on the subject in one place where it could be easily accessed. The fact that several posts on the subject have been misplaced rather tends to support my contention that the layout of the forum is misleading and people are not aware of the separate "specialist" forums" Similarly other matters where information might be urgently needs, eg. medical and dental and law.

Since the disability related posts have remained on the main forum, I have personally moved them with an explanation and an apology, - with some difficutly , as I am not a moderator and do not have access to their facilities.
Although the copy, cut and paste method (the only way I know to move post) is not easy for me and takes time when I would rather be doing something else , it is still only 5 minutes or so to improve something that to my mind is more important than writing lengthy comments on irritating British politicians.

[jofra]

IMESHO, the advertisements as they are should not and cannot be considered a real distraction - when I enter and read posts on this (and many other forums), my interest and focus is on the posts - I am aware of the advertisements, but could not say what any relate to - fortunately, my attention and focus is not easily diverted from the main matter - as is the same when I am driving....I hope that those so easily diverted by adverts are not so affected when driving or performing tasks that could affect others.....
The advertising pays for and preserves this forum; don't criticise, just focus elsewhere!
(Following repeated off-topic "discussions", I humourously suggested a politics section - Soner obliged!)

[Soner]

Ragged Robin, thank you for pointing out some of the flaws that the Kibkom Forum may have for some/many members.

Colour: Just to point out that there are 4 colour schemes that members can choose from, although this causes 4 times the workload for me to maintain, which I had previously tried to change but decided against, as it had upset a few members. Change of colour scheme can be made in your User Control Panel - Green, Blue, Teal or Pink.

Alpebetical order: I have thought of putting categories on left of index page into alphabetic order many a time, but have been put off by issues such as:
Do I put General Forum down the list under G?
Do I mix in forums for Businesses with other Categories, in alphabetical order? Example: Holidays - Holborn Assets - Hotels
I am restricted by forum template to separate these, however, I believe you are right and something should be done, I will discuss with my programmer to see if there is a way. If not, then I will arrange as best possible.

Advertising: The current format seems to be working for me. The ever increasing costs of running the forum, from spiralling hosting fees, protection charges, increase in traffic fees, programmer fees, costs to bring site back after it has been hacked etc. means that there is no way that I can run the forum without the sponsorship of businesses that advertise. The first five/six years of running the forum had been funded by my web business, which now no longer exists.. I have considered changing service provider many a time to bring some of the costs down but worry in doing so may, in the process or later down the line, cause the forum to become unstable. As the saying goes: "Why fix something that is not broken?".

I have now permanently moved to North Cyprus and I have today registered Kibkom in the TRNC, which has opened a new, uncertain, chapter for me. I intend to focus more on the forum and hopefully improve it as much as possible, so I am all ears to any suggestions.

Keithcaley: Is that table and chairs still for Sale?
.
.
.
.


If so,
.
.
.
.
you may want to consider purchasing a Global Sticky.
https://www.kibkom.com/ad.php

[Groucho]

How about a View Active Topics that excludes items for sale? That way we could all see topics being discussed without wading through the items being sold/not sold price negotiations etc. Looking for discussion and banter rarely includes the need to trawl stuff being sold. Then you could have an Exchange & Mart view that covered the needs of bargain hunters (or those who feel the need to rudely disparage the price being sought for secondhand items even though they have no intention of buying at any price...).

[Soner]

That is a good idea, but it all boils down to how much the current forum template can be manipulated. There have been many changes that I wanted to make but had been restricted, my programmer had made several attempts to make required changes but failed to do so. He is a very experienced programmer, but simply cannot perform some of the miracles I sometime request. I will put this forward to see if at all possible.

[Ragged Robin]

IMESHO, the advertisements as they are should not and cannot be considered a real distraction - when I enter and read posts on this (and many other forums), my interest and focus is on the posts - I am aware of the advertisements, but could not say what any relate to - fortunately, my attention and focus is not easily diverted from the main matter - as is the same when I am driving....I hope that those so easily diverted by adverts are not so affected when driving or performing tasks that could affect others.....
The advertising pays for and preserves this forum; don't criticise, just focus elsewhere!
(Following repeated off-topic "discussions", I humourously suggested a politics section - Soner obliged!)

I dont want to divert from the main topic of this thread, but I find the above attitude of considerable concern. There are in fact quite a number of people, including experts on road safety, who are very concerned about the risks caused by even expert and experienced drivers having their attention distracted by obstrusive advertisments. With respct to Soner it is of course a far more serious issue than misplaced items in a social forum and if you want to discuss this aspect further I suggest a separate thread.

[Ragged Robin]

How about a View Active Topics that excludes items for sale? That way we could all see topics being discussed without wading through the items being sold/not sold price negotiations etc. Looking for discussion and banter rarely includes the need to trawl stuff being sold. Then you could have an Exchange & Mart view that covered the needs of bargain hunters (or those who feel the need to rudely disparage the price being sought for secondhand items even though they have no intention of buying at any price...).

I entirely agree Groucho - in fact it was one of the suggestions I put forward on an earlier occasion. oops I am not accusing you of plagiarism - it is obviously a matter of great minds thinking alike. I note Soner's comment with sadness . Seems to me another case of new technogy not being really as good as it is made out and trying to run before it can walk.

[Mowgli597]

But by using Active topics you don’t need to wade through anything, surely. Just read the items that interest you and ignore the rest.
Or am I missing something (perhaps of interest!)?

[PoshinDevon]

Using Active Topics is how I normally use the forum. That way I am up to speed with topics that have recently been posted and are receiving interest. As I have said the first page on the active topics section normally has topics going back 3 - 5 days from original posting).

If I need to know something more specific then I will search on the relevant forum (I.e. Internet, Motors, Accommodation etc).

[Soner]

Mogli597, you are not missing anything. You are making sense.

[Mowgli597]

Mogli597, you are not missing anything. You are making sense.

Whoa! That’s a first

[Ragged Robin]

Ragged Robin, thank you for pointing out some of the flaws that the Kibkom Forum may have for some/many members.

Colour: Just to point out that there are 4 colour schemes that members can choose from, although this causes 4 times the workload for me to maintain, which I had previously tried to change but decided against, as it had upset a few members. Change of colour scheme can be made in your User Control Panel - Green, Blue, Teal or Pink.

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Oh dear! HOW do I make my point clear? I am not commenting on the colour (although it is a matter that could well be further considered as it influences mood) and I am aware of the choice of colour scheme. What I am trying to say is that important items on a notice board should be clearly stated. The words "Board Index" are tucked on the left hand side, in faint shade , lower case and small print where people may well miss noticing them. In my opinion they should be made to stand out so that people can see them and be aware that there is a choice of where to place their posts. This can be done in a number of ways - larger print, different type face, brighter colour, bold etc.


Alpebetical order: I have thought of putting categories on left of index page into alphabetic order many a time, but have been put off by issues such as:
Do I put General Forum down the list under G?
Do I mix in forums for Businesses with other Categories, in alphabetical order? Example: Holidays - Holborn Assets - Hotels
I am restricted by forum template to separate these, however, I believe you are right and something should be done, I will discuss with my programmer to see if there is a way. If not, then I will arrange as best pos

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I do not really see the problem , except it has made me realise that I tend to think of the General Forum as the Main Forum! but what is in a name. Surely the Business Forums should be listed separatly as a sub heading. Do many peple use them? I had not even more aware of them. !!! Good luck with it anyway.

Advertising: The current format reto be working for me. The ever increasing costs of running the forum, from spiralling hosting fees, protection charges, increase in traffic fees, programmer fees, costs to bring site back after it has been hacked etc. means that there is no way that I can run the forum without the sponsorship of businesses that advertise. The first five/six years of running the forum had been funded by my web business, which now no longer exists.. I have considered changing service provider many a time to bring some of the costs down but worry in doing so may, in the process or later down the line, cause the forum to become unstable. As the saying goes: "Why fix something that is not broken?".

**************************************************************************************************
I dont have sufficient knowledge of the field of expense of running a forum to comment, except to say as previous that as an (now occasional user( I get the impression the cart is being put before the horse!

During the course of a long and eventful life with two careers and a number of voluntary jobs I have been accustomed to read , study and often interpret into basic English numerous documents, books, tracts, pampluets etc. I have become accustomed starting by looking at a main heading, standing out often in bold capitals etc at the top of the page . describing the main intent of the document , followed by sub headings, indeces descriptions etc.. in gradually decreasing size and impact. It has been a big learning curve to transfer my expertise from print to readin on screen. When I am faced with a screen where the explanatory heading should be has a large moving advertisement for something I dont want even if I could afford it, my eyes and brain become distracted at best and at worst I am too stressed and irritable to address the posts with the patience and understaning many of them need!

**********************************************************************************************88
I have now permanently moved to North Cyprus and I have today registered Kibkom in the TRNC, which has opened a new, uncertain, chapter for me. I intend to focus more on the forum and hopefully improve it as much as possible, so I am all ears to any suggestions.

Hoş gildiniz and Good Luck

Keithcaley: Is that table and chairs still for Sale?
.
.
.
.


If so,
.
.
.
.
you may want to consider purchasing a Global Sticky.
https://www.kibkom.com/ad.php

[Soner]

Understood, apologies for not picking up issue of "Board Index" text size etc. I will see if text can be increase in size as well as other small text.

Issue with sub heading for Businesses and General Forum is that they have already been created and to change now may involve a tremendous amount of work. I will further look into it.

As for advertising, when you click a link of a thread, there are no moving side adverts to contend with when reading the content of the thread. So I guess that if you get over the "first hurdle" (see what I did there) then it's not so bad. Advertisers are what pays for the forum running costs. I understand that moving images can be distracting, it was one of my main criticisms when re-developing peoples websites, but then in this scenario, I also understand that advertisers want to be noticed.

Thank you.