How you say it shapes the thread split from (you couldn't make i

[erol]

Well Erol, since you asked ....

I’d guess from about post #5, with a few honourable exceptions. From then on it had lost the point of the OP who was complaining about a rude visitor to her home, but unfortunately mentioned the person’s nationality.

It went downhill fast from there - in terms of being off the original topic.

Of course, this is simply IMHO - and based on my personal experience as outlined above.

But since this reply is definitely I should just collect my coat and go home!

OK as soon as I have made this post I will close the thread. I will restart my ongoing discussion with ETS in a new topic. I am unfortunately not happy with just deleting other peoples post but I will also go back and separate out everything from post 5 onward into it's own thread as well. Not an easy task, I estimate it will take about 1-2 hours of my time.

[erol]

So I have done my best with regards to splitting things up to try and be as consistent as possible from Mowgli's perspective. I have unlocked the original threat as it seems like now it is mainly consisting of 'on topic' replies I do not think it needs to be locked ? Mowgli ? My estimate as to how long this would take was way off. It has taken me about 30 minutes or so. It's not ideal, there are 'jarrings' in both the original thread and the split off one to some degree that would be confusing to anyone reading them without knowing what happened but it is pretty much impossible to do such a split without that happening. It has involved many 'judgement calls' as to which replies were 'on topic' and to be left in the original thread and which were off topic and to be moved. No doubt my judgement calls are not the same that others might make but I have done my best. I will not start a new thread to continue my attempts to get a straight answer from ETS but will carry on doing so here in this thread, unless that upsets anyone ?

[Mowgli597]

My goodness! “And some have greatness thrust upon them!”

Thank you Erol - and enjoy the rest of your discussion in this topic.

[erol]

The desire for the watermelons to spend us into the dark ages with regard to climate change effects everyone so if the Koch brothers want to lobby against that then they have an interest. Soros certainly lobbies on the other side, I am sure we will all be stunned when his investments in renewables comes to light.
Re Brexit I can only ask is Soros trying to influence a decision because of a love for a Britain that he nearly bankrupted in 1987? I think not. Interesting that he gets very little publicity whereas there is a tireless search to find if the leave campaign had any Russian finance.

So let me see if I understand you here correctly if I may ? You are trying to explain what I saw as an apparent inconsistency between what you had said previously about the Koch brothers spending their money to influence the climate change debate and what you had said about Soros spending his trying to influence the Brexit debate on the basis of 'legitimate interest' ? That if the Koch brothers had spent money on trying to influence the Brexit debate in favour of a no deal exit, you would also describe them, for doing that as 'snakes meddling in affairs that don't concern them' ? My BS detector , which I do not think is 'unfailing, is blaring loudly right now, but ill wait for you to confirm that this is what you are saying before explaining why.

[mrsgee]

Oh my goodness.... what is this all about.... I think I will just put some paint on the wall, and watch it dry...… but no doubt someone will criticise that comment.... for heaven's sake people get a life...

[erol]

Oh my goodness.... what is this all about.... I think I will just put some paint on the wall, and watch it dry...… but no doubt someone will criticise that comment.... for heaven's sake people get a life...

Is anyone forcing you to read it? Is anyone forcing you to reply to it ? If not then why would you want it to stop ? Many threads on this forum are of no interest to me and the equivalent of watching paint dry. I just ignore those ones I am not interested in. I certainly feel no need to express that for me they are tedious or boring or the like. I am certainly still interested in continuing my discussion. If my doing so in in any way involved 'infringing' on what you want to do and chose to do and be interested in , then I would certainly consider 'stopping' but it does not in any way I can see ? I have never understood posts like these.

[mrsgee]

Oops sorry my bad..... but you did prove my point.. however I never said I wanted it to stop.... your words not mine...

[erol]

Oops sorry my bad..... but you did prove my point.. however I never said I wanted it to stop.... your words not mine...

Could you explain to me what you would like to happen then (and sorry for putting words in to your mouth) ? I am trying to understand. If I understand what it is you would like or prefer then there is at least a chance that I might be able to do something different that would accommodate that to some degree or other. If I do not understand there is nothing I can do. I don't yet understand I am afraid.

[PoshinDevon]

I am slightly dissapointed by some comments made but hey it’s not that bad to get all hot and bothered about.

As a moderator, I thought that whilst the topic had drifted a little from what the original poster had written, it was an interesting drift which was clearly sparking some debate........some may disagree with comments made but it was offering a different perspective on the original post.

In my opinion I thought it was worthwhile letting the debate continue. For those that disagree then I apologise but sometimes as a moderator we have to make decisions that some may not agree with. Hence having to sometimes bite our tongues and have the skin of a rhinoceros.

At the end of the day the decision to read a topic or just ignore it is within all our control.

[Dalartokat]

Well I’m confused with where I’m posting on this from my IPad. Open up yesterday and post and thread had been split, replying to something that now read and don’t make sense. Yes I can see Errol has given explanation but has not worked for me.

Hey ho. Another day.

[erol]

Well I’m confused with where I’m posting on this from my IPad. Open up yesterday and post and thread had been split, replying to something that now read and don’t make sense. Yes I can see Errol has given explanation but has not worked for me.

Hey ho. Another day.

Do you appreciate that I only split the thread not because I personally wanted that thread split, as a moderator or a poster, but did so in direct response to another poster who was upset that in the past a thread he was involved in was moderated (not by me) that involved him being sanctioned on the grounds of 'off topic' and he felt that this was inconsistent. ?

Splitting threads in such a way is problematic and I stated that myself.

[Mowgli597]

“Upset”? No. But looking for consistency? Yes.

There is a Greek term used in theological studies: adiaphora

We’ve gone way past that point a long time ago!

[erol]

I would like governments, police and courts to apply the law consistently too but I accept that in a human world there will always be inconsistencies in such application.

[erol]

I might also add Mowgli that whilst as a moderator, doing his best to address your concerns of 'inconsistency in moderation' I split the thread from my first post in it because that is where YOU felt it is where it went 'off topic'

As just a poster I absolutely disagree with that opinion. I think my first post in that thread was not 'off topic' at all. I think it was seeking clarification as to what the topic was ! Was the topic the rudeness and apparent racism of this person as an individual or was it the rudeness and racism of Russians. This was not clear to me at all when I made that first post. I tried not to jump to any conclusion. I asked for clarification on this, leading to this whole thing 'kicking off'.

[erol]

So now having been freed of the burden and obligations of being a moderator here (there are no privileges to such a role just potential for abuse of such a role) , I am going to 'have another say' on this whole thing. If anyone thinks me doing so and allowing this thread to go on is damaging to the forum and it should be closed , then message Soner about that. From what I know of him there is is a large chance that he will just shut it down, regardless of the merits of any of the arguments made or positions taken, on the basis that allowing it to continue is damaging to the forum. Should he do so I will not scream 'violation of my right to free speech'. I will not just start it up elsewhere. I will just accept this decision and his right to make it.

However up to and until that point, I do reserve and am going to exercise my right to have my say here.

I read the original post. It was not clear to me if the person making it wanted to discuss just the rudeness of this person as an individual. The apparent 'racism' of this individual as indicated by an account of what someone , not the original poster, had said about them. The rudeness of Russians. The apparent racism of Russians. Some of the above. All of the above. I just could not work that out. I read it again and again. I though about it and still could not work this out. So I tried to seek clarification, without making assumption.

So why was it not 'apparent and obvious' to me that what they wanted to discuss was just the rudeness of the individual ? It was not apparent and obvious to me because they had, by choice conscious or otherwise, described the individual involved as Russian. AND they had also by choice chosen to relay something that someone else had said to them about this individual , that was about the racist attitudes of Russians in general. This is why it was not clearly apparent and obvious to me that what the original poster wanted to talk about was just the rudeness of this individual.

I then went on to try and make the point that , if it was the case was that the original poster only wanted to talk about the rudeness of this person as an individual, it was in fact in their power to control to a massive degree, if that happened or not as the thread progressed by the choices they made when making the original post. Just in case they had not realised this for themselves already. Some times people do have such 'power' without realising it. That is all.

That is my take on all this. Report away.

[Dalartokat]

Well I’m confused with where I’m posting on this from my IPad. Open up yesterday and post and thread had been split, replying to something that now read and don’t make sense. Yes I can see Errol has given explanation but has not worked for me.

Hey ho. Another day.

Do you appreciate that I only split the thread not because I personally wanted that thread split, as a moderator or a poster, but did so in direct response to another poster who was upset that in the past a thread he was involved in was moderated (not by me) that involved him being sanctioned on the grounds of 'off topic' and he felt that this was inconsistent. ?

Splitting threads in such a way is problematic and I stated that myself.

To be honest Erol, the way this has all panned out , for me, (my opinion) I think it should have been left alone.

My 2 penneth.... I looked at Elizabeth’s post and never had any problem with what she said. I did not delve that deep. I just saw the posting as someone expressing an opinion about a Russian woman going into her home and that woman’s behaviour was not to Elizabeth’s liking. Once you had pointed out your first question about the posting I looked and read again and still did not see a problem. I think we are all intelligent enough to realise that just because a certain nationality is mentioned that we don’t form an opinion that they all behave in the same way.

Quite frankly if someone annoys me I would say something despite who they are , don’t make me a racist just because the person happens to be from somewhere else. How they view it, it’s their problem not mine.

I think we need to be a bit more tolerant of peoples postings and not maybe look for perfectionism or knit pick.

I felt it went too far in analysing someone’s posting. A little bit above my pay grade

I wait for a dysecting

[erol]

My 2 penneth.... I looked at Elizabeth’s post and never had any problem with what she said. I did not delve that deep. I just saw the posting as someone expressing an opinion about a Russian woman going into her home and that woman’s behaviour was not to Elizabeth’s liking. Once you had pointed out your first question about the posting I looked and read again and still did not see a problem. I think we are all intelligent enough to realise that just because a certain nationality is mentioned that we don’t form an opinion that they all behave in the same way.

I did not think there was something wrong in Elizabeth's post. I had not got that far. I just could not work out what she was saying or trying to say so that I could take a view on if I thought there was anything wrong in it or not. So what I did was try and establish what exactly she was saying, so that I could decide if there was anything wrong. There are so many ironies here. Even if her intention had of been to start a conversation as to how Russians are in general and on average are more rude than others, I still would not have been at the point where I would be ready to label her and challenge her over 'racism', as I tried to explain with my example of Cypriots and their rude driving and parking habits. As some one who does recognise that accusations of racism can be unfounded and just used as an easy excuse to attack someone , shut someone down and the like but that also fears that as a consequence of this reality there is danger that we go down a route of the word racism has no meaning any more that leads to racism does not exist any more or can not be challenged as such any more, I try my utmost to scrupulously NOT do that myself. Yet that was the immediate reaction of some to my attempt to seek more clarity so I could take a view. They were more than ready, to be judge jury and executioner on me and my motives, to be certain with such limited information , that my intent was clearly to try and ascribe to someone a motive or label of racism that was not there. Indeed that that must be my intent , because that is what 'my sort' do, go around looking for any excuse to label someone as racist when they were not. They were in effect doing to me the very thing they were accusing me of doing, that I knew was not true. Namely looking for something they wanted to be true (that my sort go around maliciously labelling people and things as racist that are not) and immediately jumping to that conclusion because they wanted it to be true, when in fact it was not.

The truth is, at least as far as I see it, I do NOT have an agenda of actively seeking to see and label things as racist that are not. I actually have an agenda of NOT doing so whilst still being able to challenge those things that are racist.

Splitting threads in such a way is problematic and I stated that myself.

To be honest Erol, the way this has all panned out , for me, (my opinion) I think it should have been left alone.

If you are looking for an example of where I said /did something and did do so with a degree of 'ulterior motive' then this is one such example. I think splitting the thread was not a 'good' thing to do. I did do so partly to genuinely try and 'accommodate' the person who wanted more consistency in moderation applied but also I did so, knowing that such a solution was less that ideal in many ways, as a way of trying to get them to see what some of the practical problems and limitations of moderation were, even when applied as they though best. That WAS an 'ulterior motive'. I was happy when you expressed you 'concerns' as well because again I had a hope that the person might also start to see and appreciate the 'whack a mole' nature of moderation. Take an action to accommodate one user and another pops up in turn expressing that that very action has caused 'dissatisfaction' for them.

Finally and for what it is worth, I do recognise that there is something wrong with me. That I am not normal. I am driven by compulsions that do not seem typical for others. Compulsion to try and understand , to challenge , to probe to question , to accuracy / pedantry. To not be able to let things go, if I think I have a valid 'point' but I think that point has not been understood. It is not that I need a counter party to agree with a point I make but I do want them to understand what the point is properly and if there is the slightest chance that they have not, to go again, explain again, explain it in different way. I understand that for some engaging with me, this feels to them like 'bullying', like hectoring and to a degree it is. I do recognise all of this. At times I wish I did not have such compulsions. I have and to a degree still do try and mitigate this compulsion in me but in 53 years so far I have not yet been able to make much difference. In the end all I am left with is the popeye defence. I yam what I yam. Whilst I do recognise all of this in myself I would say that none of this comes from a place of 'malice', of 'desire to bully for bullyings sake' to 'belittle' to 'act superior'. It may turn out appearing that way and feeling that way to those on the 'receiving end' but that is a 'consequence' not a 'desire for this to be the case'.

I wait for a dysecting

Wait over ?

[elizabeth]

Do you think her rudeness is because she is Russian or do you only mention Russian to make the point 'not Cypriot'. Would your story still 'work' if it started 'A non Cypriot Lady ...."

Erol, you may twist things however you like but from your post you are clearly insinuating that I am racist, I find that offensive and totally unacceptable.
I was extremely angry at the disrespect shown to me, my home and my neighbours, as you would have been I'm sure
I posted to let off steam, not to tell a story or start a discussion on the cultural habits of Cypriots or anyone else.
If you think that the mention of a person's nationality is racist then no, you are not normal, nor is your IT knowledge an excuse for bullying and aggressive behaviour as some seem to think.
I have many faults, not everyone can be perfect as you would like,but I am not racist and find that insinuation disgusting and deplorable. If you had a shred of dignity or humility you would apologise instead of continuing with your never ending ramblings.

[erol]

sigh

, you may twist things however you like

What you see as 'twisting things' I see as a sincere and honest attempt to try and explain , from my perspective

but from your post you are clearly insinuating that I am racist, I find that offensive and totally unacceptable.

To you I was clearly doing that, I understand that. However to me I know I was not trying to do that with any intent to do so. Nor do I think that even if you are not me it is clear beyond any and all reasonable doubt that that was my intent, even if all you go on is that post alone and ignore everything I have subsequently said.

I was extremely angry at the disrespect shown to me, my home and my neighbours, as you would have been I'm sure

understood and I have no problem with you doing that for the reason you did at all.

If you think that the mention of a person's nationality is racist

How many times do I have to explicitly say that I do NOT think this before you are able to accept I do not think this ? Is there any number that could do this ?

bullying and aggressive behaviour

As far as anything I did or said led you to feel I was bullying you or trying to be aggressive for the sake of being aggressive , than I apologise for that unreservedly.

but I am not racist and find that insinuation disgusting and deplorable.

I have never said I think you are racist. All there is, is interpretations as to what I implied and what I intended to imply. If you or anyone else were to ask me straight and openly, do I think you are racist, the only honest answer I could give would be I simply do not have enough 'information' or knowledge of you to be able to say either way. When you stated clearly that what you wanted to talk about was this persons behaviour as an individual, I accepted that and that what you wanted to talk about when the thread started was this.

Compare the reverse if you will or can. Have my accusers explicitly stated I was trying to with intent make you out to be a racist, or is all there is interpretations as to them implying it ? When I stated explicitly such was not my intent did my accusers accept that ?

If you had a shred of dignity or humility you would apologise instead of continuing with your never ending ramblings.

If you want me to apologise for trying to make out you are racist with the intent to do so, then I am sorry I can not do so because I know I did not try with intent to do this. If you want me to apologise for making you feel that this is what I was doing I have no problem with doing that at all. I apologise for making you feel like I was trying to imply you are racist.