What's happening in the UK

[gates]

Received following from UK

[EnjoyingTheSun]

https://www.buzzfeed.com/joeydurso/army ... -fake-news

Always suspicious of the I have a friend stories.

Personally I think they are probably going to move troops around so they are ready if looting and food riots break out. After all we have a population who will riot and loot for a pair of trainers so food being perceived to run out could cause a lot of ructions.

But I guess we will know for sure in 10 hours.

[ardstrawray]

Just the sort of post to instil panic in people already already scared to death.

[gates]

It will be in the papers tomorrow you better tell those people scared to death dont buy anymore news papers . Mind you at least they will have something to wipe there derriere on

[PoshinDevon]

It’s certain that the U.K. will at some stage have to go into a severe lockdown. If the chief medical and scientific officers have got it right then hopefully the U.K. is taking the action at exactly the right time.

Emergency legislation being debated in parliament today which has already been agreed by all parties will not be voted on....it will just go thro. This no doubt will give police more powers plus also allow the military to be called in to support whatever measures may be put in place.

Our son is a police officer and whilst he hasn’t said anything directly preparations are being made to support whatever measures are put in place. Our daughter is a ward sister in the NHS and they are very much going all out to be as prepared as they possibly can.

The lockdown has been coming with each day the government preparing to tighten things so no one should be surprised.

[Neonman]

I’ve seen that same tex written by a police man . Someone who works in Parliament and a soldier

[erol]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-5 ... type=share

[TAC]

You may have missed this

The virus is not nearly as deadly as the common flu, which experts have warned should still take priority in the medical battle.

Influenza can lead to thousands of deaths a year, with the University of Oxford stating that in 2008-2009, there were 13,000 deaths in the UK alone related to the flu.

The World Health Organisation (WHO) estimates that an average of up to 500,000 people die annually across the globe due to the flu.

[Deniz1]

Lock down hasnt helped Italy numbers have doubled this morning nearly 500 deaths.

[MVP]

Uk population about 70 million
Average life expectancy about 80 years so an average 875,000 deaths a year plus add a few as ageing population say 900,000 pa or 17,300 deaths per week.
Total coronavirus deaths in uk 144

So why the chaos?

Banks and airlines and businesses with get taken over by governments around the world. Massive government debt gets torn up and off we go again

It's all about money

[sophie]

Deniz1, I believe the Italian problem has arisen because their Government prevaricated far too long. First they isolated a small town, then two or three towns, then the North of the country, and thousands just jumped in their cars and went South, by then the Genie was out of the bottle. Its my opinion for what its worth, that UK could go the same way, no one wants to bite the bullet and call a halt and declare Lock Down.

The saddest thing I've seen was on Breakfast TV.....IA nurse was sitting in her car crying because had just come off a 48 hour shift and could find nothing in the shops to eat. She was pleading for the greedy masses to stop. What the hell is the matter with the Brits. Sooner the better that the forces are put on the streets.

[Saintsfan]

Some Stores are now opening for NHS workers and night shift workers only.m

[kibsolar1999]

The virus is not nearly as deadly as the common flu
not true. flu mortality approx 0,1 - 0,2 %. Sars Cov 2 or covid 19 approx, it seems, 0,6% with a good working health system, both for registered cases only.
the new corona virus is much more infectious as the flu. flu infection rate is approx 1-1, corona is still guessed to be at least 1-2 or 1-3.
within 10 days, 2 third of the german tourist group is now infected.

Lock down hasnt helped Italy numbers have doubled this morning nearly 500 deaths.
these dead people show the situation from approx 10-14 days ago and show also what happens when you do not have sufficient capacity to cope with the high numbers of patients. 500 a day for 365 days in Italy = 180.000

Total normal death 900,000 pa, coronavirus deaths in uk 144
70 million x 65-70 % will be infected = 50 million = x 0,6% = 300.000.
50 million will be, say infected in a year (eg without a curfew) , 80% are synthom free, 10- 20 % needs hospital, of which 50% may need a breathing mask.
so, say, 5 million need a hospital, of which 2,5 million a year need a mask. / 365 days x 10 days "breathing mask need" = 70.000 intensive care beds and masks are needed. if a health system can not supply (the UK has 4000 intensive care beds) , then the death rate goes up, see china approx 6% (of total known infections, dark figure is higher of course),
then you are in the region of 2 million for the UK alone.

you can argue about the numbers.. but to say.. So why the chaos? only shows that you still donot understand the situation.

[gates]

I have been sent another link to shops in Pekam being looted already buy our colonial friends good now they can wear masks even breaking in smashing windows in Pound shop

[gates]

Lock down is not just to stop the virus unfortunately there are segments of our society that will take any opportunity they can to thieve witch then we all have to suffer

[erol]

I have been sent another link to shops in Pekam being looted already buy our colonial friends good now they can wear masks even breaking in smashing windows in Pound shop

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-5 ... type=share

[erol]

I have been sent another link to shops in Pekam being looted already buy our colonial friends good now they can wear masks even breaking in smashing windows in Pound shop

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-5 ... type=share

As for our 'colonial friends' - needs no comment really.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Not sure how true this is but I've heard the average age of those dying in Italy with coronavirus is 80 and when you do hear of someone dying that is young or middle aged then they generally seem to have a pre-existing condition.

So maybe those that are dying are generally a bad cold away from dying anyway?

As for how accurate the numbers are, who knows?

Generally very few people actually died of AIDS they died of pneumonia. So are people who are a week away from dying of say leukemia dying a little earlier because of the virus? So if we are not careful the figures could easily show that the mortality rate for coronavirus is 1 in 10 but we appear to have cured cancer leukemia, old age etc etc because no one is dying of them anymore.

Also people often die WITH things rather than OF them.

So with the numbers I think it is too early to know how accurate the data is. Also most of the data should have come from China as they have had it longest and must have had more cases but they have undoubtedly faked it. We have Italy now with more deaths than China which I find highly unlikely.
Also many might have the virus and just self isolate and get better without even troubling the doctors so they don't show in the figures.
Add press sensationalism, the partisanship in politics and the thirst for scientists to get on the telly and any projections are not worth a light even if they were based on accurate data.

So in all likelihood even though we don't currently have a vaccine and it appears that it is quite contagious, if you are unlucky enough to catch coronavirus and in reasonable health it won't kill you.
Panic, the break down of social order and not being able to buy food will always have a higher mortality rate.

[erol]

In Italy hundreds are dying a day having contracted this virus. Morgues are overflowing in worst affected areas and the army is having to be used to deal with the bodies. This is not 'normal' and just people who were going to die anyway.

How does posting and reposting scenes from 2011 riots in the UK and making out they are happening today help anything ?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

How does posting and reposting scenes from 2011 riots in the UK and making out they are happening today help anything ?

Whats that got to do with me?

There is always Pallywood going on in the news, this thread started with videos of army trucks moving in to shut down the UK.

One things for sure even if this crisis doesn't build character it will certainly reveal it.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

This is not 'normal' and just people who were going to die anyway.

Well if you had an AIDS ward in say 1979 anyone in it was going to die over the next 6 months but if they all died overnight then yes that would be overwhelming but not change the overall result would it?
We will know in time whether there was a massive spike in the overall mortality rates for 2020. I think it will be surprisingly small increase. This isn't ebola.

[Groucho]

One thing we can count on.... pharmaceutical companies will make a killing/fortune.... it's an ill wind (quite literally)

[EnjoyingTheSun]

One thing we can count on.... pharmaceutical companies will make a killing/fortune.... it's an ill wind (quite literally)

Well if they are throwing resources into finding a vaccine they are entitled to make some money but the government needs to keep a control on profiteering and price gouging for sure because it will lead to looting.

If your local shop thinks its a smart move to buy up all the toilet rolls so they can charge twenty quid for four then they they shouldn't be too surprised if those that can't afford twenty quid simply take them.

Hopefully this crisis might lead to a reset and society coming together.
There is only so much a government can do. Don't be selfish. You don't need 100 toilet rolls. Your bad back doesn't really require you going to the emergency ward. Take personal responsibility, look after your own and your vulnerable neighbours. Maybe take the partisanship out of politics. Much as it's fun to sit back and chip in with criticism, whoever was in power was going to struggle so while you are crowing at the government's failures realise that it has cost lives.

[Groucho]

One thing we can count on.... pharmaceutical companies will make a killing/fortune.... it's an ill wind (quite literally)

Well if they are throwing resources into finding a vaccine they are entitled to make some money but the government needs to keep a control on profiteering and price gouging for sure because it will lead to looting.

If your local shop thinks its a smart move to buy up all the toilet rolls so they can charge twenty quid for four then they they shouldn't be too surprised if those that can't afford twenty quid simply take them.

Hopefully this crisis might lead to a reset and society coming together.
There is only so much a government can do. Don't be selfish. You don't need 100 toilet rolls. Your bad back doesn't really require you going to the emergency ward. Take personal responsibility, look after your own and your vulnerable neighbours. Maybe take the partisanship out of politics. Much as it's fun to sit back and chip in with criticism, whoever was in power was going to struggle so while you are crowing at the government's failures realise that it has cost lives.

Well just how many big-pharma cos making huge profits from the situation are involved in the research effort is a question.... I have no doubt that research labs are doing their bit and all companies need profits but how are increased profits being fed into research and not just ending up in fat cat bonuses?

[Groucho]

One thing we can count on.... pharmaceutical companies will make a killing/fortune.... it's an ill wind (quite literally)

Well if they are throwing resources into finding a vaccine they are entitled to make some money but the government needs to keep a control on profiteering and price gouging for sure because it will lead to looting.

If your local shop thinks its a smart move to buy up all the toilet rolls so they can charge twenty quid for four then they they shouldn't be too surprised if those that can't afford twenty quid simply take them.

Hopefully this crisis might lead to a reset and society coming together.
There is only so much a government can do. Don't be selfish. You don't need 100 toilet rolls. Your bad back doesn't really require you going to the emergency ward. Take personal responsibility, look after your own and your vulnerable neighbours. Maybe take the partisanship out of politics. Much as it's fun to sit back and chip in with criticism, whoever was in power was going to struggle so while you are crowing at the government's failures realise that it has cost lives.

Well just how many big-pharma cos making huge profits from the situation are involved in the research effort is a question.... I have no doubt that research labs are doing their bit and all companies need profits but how are increased profits being fed into research and not just ending up in fat cat bonuses?

[kevnmax]

Live in the middle of London and everything is fine .Less people about during rush hour ,and shops running low on a few things ,pubs still open if they chose ,lot more people about during the day out running and using the outdoor gyms in the parks

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Well just how many big-pharma cos making huge profits from the situation are involved in the research effort is a question.... I have no doubt that research labs are doing their bit and all companies need profits but how are increased profits being fed into research and not just ending up in fat cat bonuses?

Well this is the old market forces against the state argument which goes round and round. The main thing is to find a vaccine and if someone is motivated by profits rather than altruism then so be it. Generally any business knows that the money is in volume so making stuff affordable is the way forward. Also the government can subsidise the R and D because the quicker people are out of isolation and back to work paying taxes the better.

[erol]

Maybe take the partisanship out of politics.

Will you be blaming and telling us less what the 'problem with Guardian readers' and the 'left' generally is as a result I wonder ? You are one of the most politically partisan people I know.

Much as it's fun to sit back and chip in with criticism, whoever was in power was going to struggle so while you are crowing at the government's failures realise that it has cost lives.

Who has done that here on this thread ? I do not see anyone 'crowing' at all. I see people posting pure disinformation. I see you making out the government and everyone else is over reacting. Where is this 'crowing' ?

[Deniz1]

Great Talk about fiddling while Rome is burning.the pubs are still open in the uk what idiots! They threaten the lives of possibly hundreds of people.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Maybe take the partisanship out of politics.

Will you be blaming and telling us less what the 'problem with Guardian readers' and the 'left' generally is as a result I wonder ? You are one of the most politically partisan people I know.

Much as it's fun to sit back and chip in with criticism, whoever was in power was going to struggle so while you are crowing at the government's failures realise that it has cost lives.

Who has done that here on this thread ? I do not see anyone 'crowing' at all. I see people posting pure disinformation. I see you making out the government and everyone else is over reacting. Where is this 'crowing' ?

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/ ... 41504?s=20

That's about 2 hours old. Not exactly Michael Foot during The Falklands or Attlee during the war is he? But hey he has spent his career sitting on the fence throwing grenades at anyone in power so why change now. Thank god he never won and had to actually put up.

I wasn't particularly signalling out anyone on the thread just pointing out we need to pull together.

As for people posting disinformation I pointed out that the original pictures were unlikely to be true.

[PoshinDevon]

Here in the U.K. one of the more worrying development since this crisis emerged is the bare shelves in supermarkets. Sadly there are some who are not doing a normal shop, they are simply buying many times more than the norm. There are really no words strong enough to describe these inconsiderate people. There are also reports of blatant profiteering by some shops by selling products that are in short supply at hugely inflated prices. I can accept that a wholesaler may have raised prices due to supply being short and also passing these costs onto the corner shop....but really £10 for a pack of toilet roll, £10 for a 500ml of Dettol. Hopefully the customer will be king and these profiteering people will get their come uppance. The supermarkets were also far to slow to implement any rationing of certain items. Many have implement a policy now, but they really needed to do this so much earlier.

I can see a much more draconian lockdown very soon, not only to protect people from the virus but also to put something in place to put to an end the hysteria in some supermarkets, which will in turn ensure the supply chain has time to recover and stock will be available.

[erol]

That's about 2 hours old. Not exactly Michael Foot during The Falklands or Attlee during the war is he? But hey he has spent his career sitting on the fence throwing grenades at anyone in power so why change now. Thank god he never won and had to actually put up.

So the leader of the opposition points out that there are problems in the UK other than just corona virus and you think he should 'shut up' in the name of 'pulling together'. Yet no mention of the multiple Tory MP's that are criticising the government over it's handling of the crisis. As far as I can see you yourself are just using the current events to carry on your politically partisan attacks whilst suggesting others should 'take the partisanship out of politics'.

As for people posting disinformation I pointed out that the original pictures were unlikely to be true.

You did. You have also talked about "Panic, the break down of social order and not being able to buy food" and about non essential shop owners like (moderated) continuing to retail to the public needing to because 'starving to death is 100% deadly". I am not aware of a single person to date dying because of lack of food as a result of measure being taken to slow the spread of infection. I am aware of 1000's of people who have died because of the virus. When you set up false dichotomies, like you either ignore the governments advice / orders to not open non essential retail outlets for a period , or you die of starvation - 100%, you are spreading, imo, disinformation.

[kibsolar1999]

" ... I've heard the average age of those dying in Italy with coronavirus is 80 and when you do hear of someone dying that is young or middle aged then they generally seem to have a pre-existing condition...."

thats true. and they died even though they have been "on a mask".
the moment you do not have sufficient masks available also for "the youngers" you will see the age average fall.

i have seen an interview with a approx 40 year old one who recovered.. he said it was really tough.

so, not "only the old and the ones with pre-existing conditions" are affected.
btw, what is a pre-condition ? for corona mainly: high blood pressure, any kind of heart deseases and diabetis mellitus.

[Groucho]

" ... I've heard the average age of those dying in Italy with coronavirus is 80 and when you do hear of someone dying that is young or middle aged then they generally seem to have a pre-existing condition...."

thats true. and they died even though they have been "on a mask".
the moment you do not have sufficient masks available also for "the youngers" you will see the age average fall.

i have seen an interview with a approx 40 year old one who recovered.. he said it was really tough.

so, not "only the old and the ones with pre-existing conditions" are affected.
btw, what is a pre-condition ? for corona mainly: high blood pressure, any kind of heart deseases and diabetis mellitus.

Probably the most critical pre-existing condition is a respiratory condition and anything causing a compromised immune system.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

So the leader of the opposition points out that there are problems in the UK other than just corona virus and you think he should 'shut up' in the name of 'pulling together'.

It's called prioritising mate. Maybe just maybe free broadband for all isn't a priority at the moment. At the end of the day the government will put stuff through some will work some probably won't. If he runs to form Magic Grandpa will vote against everything and the stuff that doesn't work he can jump up and down and say he was on the right side of history again.

I am not aware of a single person to date dying because of lack of food as a result of measure being taken to slow the spread of infection. I am aware of 1000's of people who have died because of the virus. When you set up false dichotomies, like you either ignore the governments advice / orders to not open non essential retail outlets for a period , or you die of starvation - 100%, you are spreading, imo, disinformation.

There are old people who are not getting much at supermarkets in the UK as it is survival of the fittest and fastest. Plenty of videos out there illustrating that.
Hence social breakdown point. If you think it is a good idea to let the bullies do better at the supermarkets than the more vulnerable I'm fine with that, trust me I will make out pretty well.

As for the (moderated) comment, my point is let's put on our big boy pants and start to take a bit of personal responsibility here. If you don't want to risk getting infected by buying something non essential then don't f#@% ing go there. You'll survive without it. If you think it is a good idea to go to the pub and mix in a petri dish then fill your boots.

If there is one thing that may come out of this it's that society might realise that the state cannot look after everyone there isn't enough resources to. So maybe take some personal responsibility and let the state concentrate on looking after those that DO need a bit of help and give a firm kick up the arse to those that can help themselves.

[Lady Muck]

Shortage in supermarkets, my son and his partner (both work full time) who have 4 children (their choice). They normally do a full shop once a month when they get paid and weekly fresh fruit and veg. They skyped me other night so upset as he went to supermarket to get a few bits for the chldrens lunch boxes and shelves were bare.,tried another supermarket same story! How are families supposed to survive if they cannot get the basics. Pensioners, Emergency workers i.e. how the heck are they supposed to get their groceries with the shifts they work. This all because of stupid ignorant panic buyers! Rant over

[erol]

It's called prioritising mate.

Should all, on the left and the right be 'prioritising' or is criticism due only to those on the left who are not prioritising as you see fit ? Is the government going out of it's way to say categorically that they will not extend the transition period a 'priority' right now rather than saying nothing or saying we will make that decision when the time comes ? Take the partisanship out of politics. Yeah right, I just wish you would, though I am not holding my breath.

As for the (moderated) comment, my point is ...

Oh I thought your 'point' was if they did not ignore the governments advice / orders, that have the objective of slowing down the rate of spread of this virus, they would starve ?

This is not just about personal choice. By choosing to take risks of infection you increase the risk to everyone. That is the point. If the only consequence of people taking risk was to themselves alone then fine but it does not work that way. When you take risks personally that choice increases the risk to others as well.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Should all, on the left and the right be 'prioritising' or is criticism due only to those on the left who are not prioritising as you see fit ? Is the government going out of it's way to say categorically that they will not extend the transition period a 'priority' right now rather than saying nothing or saying we will make that decision when the time comes ? Take the partisanship out of politics. Yeah right, I just wish you would, though I am not holding my breath.

My point is we can bang on about austerity and the amount of money that has been spent or not spent on the NHS over the last 10 years but to what purpose? That horse has bolted so it really is only point scoring. We have a problem and the priority is to solve it as best as we can. The government are pumping 100s of billions into this.
Think of the second world war. We are in the middle of the blitz and could bang on about Chamberlain's appeasement and the lack of money spent on our military which will give some a fantastic opportunity to spout their set piece speech or we could concentrate on air defences and homing the bombed out, that kind of thing.
Also do you think;
A} Johnson is just taking a punt? or
B} What he is doing is acting on the advise of his medical advisors?

Oh I thought your 'point' was if they did not ignore the governments advice / orders, that have the objective of slowing down the rate of spread of this virus, they would starve ?

This is not just about personal choice. By choosing to take risks of infection you increase the risk to everyone. That is the point. If the only consequence of people taking risk was to themselves alone then fine but it does not work that way. When you take risks personally that choice increases the risk to others as well.

I would imagine if the didn't qualify to remain open they would have closed by now so I can only guess they are acting within the government's orders.

Personally as much as I like a glass of wine I wouldn't make a special point of going there because I'm a grown up and don't need the government to advise me on taking unnecessary risks.
For those that do need the government to micromanage every aspect of their lives, they are going to struggle at the moment because the government is a bit busy. So again put on your big boy pants.

As for people working when they shouldn't I'm sure they would stay at home and self isolate but maybe some need an income coming in to buy the little things like food. I don't know (moderated) circumstances so don't rush to judge.

We have to be realistic, the world cannot shut down for the next three months to a year.Well that's the real world anyhow

[erol]

Also do you think;
A} Johnson is just taking a punt? or
B} What he is doing is acting on the advise of his medical advisors?

I think on measures like calling for people to self isolate he is acting on medical advice. I think in actively choosing at this time to keep stating he categorically will not extend the transition period under any circumstances, he is placing partisan politics ahead of national interests. The BoE is printing 200 billion of new money in an effort to mitigate the effects on the stock market and sterling of this crisis. It moved both around 1% upwards. A simple and obvious statement along the lines of 'given the circumstances we will consider extending the transition if necessary' would imo have at least as much upward effect on sterling and the stock market and cost nothing fiscally to do so. It is entirely a partisan political choice to not do this and to keep on insisting the UK will not countenance any extension to the transition period.

I would imagine if the didn't qualify to remain open they would have closed by now so I can only guess they are acting within the government's orders.

They are not acting in a way that is compatible with the governments objectives whilst they continue to be open for retail sales. You excused this first on the basis that if they did not they would 'starve'. That is just bollocks and you know it.

As for people working when they shouldn't I'm sure they would stay at home and self isolate but maybe some need an income coming in to buy the little things like food. I don't know (moderated) circumstances so don't rush to judge.

They wholesale and they retail. Were they to stop retail they would be in a better position than 99% of other business that are retail only and that have closed, including retail bakeries. Continuing to retail in this current environment is nothing to do with 'survival' and everything to do with 'profit'. imo. If they do not do this by choice the government should force them to do so and that it has not is a failure of the government.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

I think in actively choosing at this time to keep stating he categorically will not extend the transition period under any circumstances, he is placing partisan politics ahead of national interests. The BoE is printing 200 billion of new money in an effort to mitigate the effects on the stock market and sterling of this crisis. It moved both around 1% upwards. A simple and obvious statement along the lines of 'given the circumstances we will consider extending the transition if necessary' would imo have at least as much upward effect on sterling and the stock market and cost nothing fiscally to do so. It is entirely a partisan political choice to not do this and to keep on insisting the UK will not countenance any extension to the transition period.

I think he is very much acting on what he thinks is best at the time in a very liquid situation whilst trying to keep panic down to a minimum.
I'm sure it will get full support from Magic Grandpa if his priority was keeping the stock market stable!

They are not acting in a way that is compatible with the governments objectives whilst they continue to be open for retail sales. You excused this first on the basis that if they did not they would 'starve'. That is just bollocks and you know it.

They wholesale and they retail. Were they to stop retail they would be in a better position than 99% of other business that are retail only and that have closed, including retail bakeries. Continuing to retail in this current environment is nothing to do with 'survival' and everything to do with 'profit'. imo. If they do not do this by choice the government should force them to do so and that it has not is a failure of the government.

I'm not an expert on Wines of The World business but the point comes down to what a government feels is an essential business and survival of those businesses.
Now many small businesses out here are probably a couple of bad months away from being bankrupt.
Those businesses have employees that rely on them. Not all of them are Richard Branson and the TRNC government do not have too much money to spare for a surge in welfare payments.

So let's look at a restaurant.
Are they essential? Not by a long shot people can cook and eat at home.
When they close however their employees who now don't have a job unfortunately might not have that luxury as their source of income has now stopped.

This restaurant might have 12 staff and after paying them might make a bit of that dirty word, a profit.
If they do re-open in 3 months I think we can guarantee that they won't be taking all 12 staff back.

So it is all well and good sitting in an ivory tower and being sanctimonious that a non essential cushion shop might be trying to eeek out a living and maybe put a few quid in some of their employees pockets.
If you think that going to buy a cushion might be too risky, again don't go.
Personally I think you look fit and healthy enough, so if you desperately need a cushion and by some miracle catch corona virus while doing so I'm sure you'll survive. In fact I'm that confident that i'll go and get your cushion. I'd advise you to maybe avoid any vulnerable people but you personally will feel rough for a while but will survive well enough to pontificate on the billionaire kebab shop owners having the sole purpose of exploiting their staff and trying to kill everyone.

Unfortunately the world cannot self isolate for a year and print money to keep itself going. It would be lovely if they could but I am talking the real world.

[erol]

If you want to keep arguing that there is nothing wrong in the current climate for the government here to force retail bakeries to close but allow a retail off license to remain open, then go right ahead. I have made my point. If you can not or will understand the point I am making and prefer to waffle on about Corbyn and cushion shops, that is your choice. For the record neither will attempts to bully or intimidate me over the phone from certain parties (not you) stop me from expressing my view on this matter.

I am not self isolating out of fear of dying. I am self isolating because I understand that the speed at which this virus is able to spread is directly correlated to the degree to which we all do or do not take such actions seriously. Because I understand that my actions, my choices, in this regard do not affect just me but that they affect everyone. You no doubt will call that 'sanctimonious'. I call it not being a selfish ****.

[Dalartokat]

Live in the middle of London and everything is fine .Less people about during rush hour ,and shops running low on a few things ,pubs still open if they chose ,lot more people about during the day out running and using the outdoor gyms in the parks

Well your see a bigger difference now, as just been announced that Pubs, Clubs, Restaurants, Theatres, Gyms, Leisure Centres are to close as from midnight tonight.

[Soner]

Well said Erol.
I am self isolating as is many I know, not because I am afraid of catching the Coronavirus, but because I do not want to catch it and pass it on to those that are vulnerable: the very elderly and those with serious health issues. Two weeks will not destroy a business nor will it dramatically affect those with financial issues. Do as is asked from government and then allow them to assess the situation. This is only a small island with a small population, by isolating ourselves for this short period of time can help control and contain the spread of this virus. Rather than have the attitude of live and let die, think of those that are not ready or willing to leave their loved ones, just yet.
These 2 weeks may just make an enormous difference in how things pan out, we all need to work together to stop the spread of this virus. The only way to stop it will be though elimination of contact.
Stay Safe! Be Considerate!

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Just to put things into perspective.
The UK has a population of 66 million
On average 1,650 people die a day in the UK
Of those, 50 people a day die with flu
Since the Coronavirus arrived in the UK on 31st January, 50 days ago, there have been 3983 cases and 177 deaths.

Now the question that I wonder is how many died from flu on top of that. Eg there are different strains of flu and are the 39 on top of the normal 50 or is this a flu that they would statistically have died from anyway?
1650 people die anyway of something. Years ago a lot of people died from TB maybe not so many from cancer. Now they don’t die from TB but live on and maybe die of cancer. We are not immortal.

[erol]

You sound exactly like Trump from 3 weeks ago.

In the UK 177 reported deaths in 50 days. And if it becomes another 177 in the next 25 days would your view change ? 177 in 10 days ? 177 a day ? 250 a day. 500 a day ? These are not alarmist exaggerations with no basis in evidence from other places. At what number in what time period does it have to be before you will accept that the extreme measures being taken are proportional ? Or is your real view that you personally are statistically unlikely to be one of the dead even if it were a thousand a day, so better to not place any risk to your economic life trying to reduce the number. Better to just let them die, cause they gonna die any way eventually.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Or is your real view that you personally are statistically unlikely to be one of the dead even if it were a thousand a day, so better to not place any risk to your economic life trying to reduce the number. Better to just let them die, cause they gonna die any way eventually.

The self isolation isn’t going to effect my life in the slightest tbh but I am aware that shutting down the world is going to effect a lot of lives considerably and probably permanently.
Me personally or pretty much anyone is statistically more likely to die from the data that I’m seeing. My point is that it isn’t people who’s death has been bought forward by 40 years, it’s effecting people who’s death has been bought forward by days or at most months.
When the dust settles I’m confident that we are not going to see a massive spike in worldwide deaths above the norm. But hey in the meantime many can scare the daylights out of people and cause panic.

[jofra]

.*.*.*.*.*. aka I'm alright Jack (screw you).....

[Groucho]

This thread has taken the sheen of personal attacks, mob rounding on individuals because you don't like an alternative view being expressed and I find that abhorrent.

[johnerebus]

Not sure who she is but Katie Hopkins who scribbles for The Sun (the comic on which I'll wipe my bum after the loo roll runs out) recommends euthanasia vans for old people. If CV don't get me first she will. That's this 77 year old git with COPD and heart failure done for then.

[kibsolar1999]

The self isolation isn’t going to effect my life in the slightest .. tbh, i believe that.

there are even in the BBC opinions are given from "health experts" which appears to me very cynical, but it seems that many take over such opinions ( because it is a "more reliable" source?)

here is a link to a german website, most probably this one changed even Boris opinion about "herd immunization".
there is not much to translate...
insgesamt infiziert: total infected (in the population)
maximal gleichzeitig krank: maximum sick same time
Reproduktionszahl: reproduction number (how many get sick from one infected person)

reproduction number "spanish flu" (origin: the US, Kansas) was 2-3. covid 19: 2,4 - 3,3
say 3 and you see that as a max, 30% of the population has covid 19 = 20 million in the UK alone.
20% need treatment, but thousands of nurses and other medical workers (mainly from east europe) left the UK during the brexit thing.
even if only 1% need a mask = 100.000 masks would be needed.
the UK has 4000, germany 25.000

questions?