What's happening in the UK

[sophie]

To add perhaps a little levity to the situation in the Uk…………….I must say I wouldn't mind taking the 80 percent a month for staying at home, on the last salary that I had prior to coming here. The company I worked for will be able to afford it, providing I fall off my perch within the next 12-15 years. On a not so complacent thought, is whether my private pensions are safe and there will be enough in the pot to keep state pension going. I mean to say all these trillions that is being handed out as from next week can't last for ever. Is NI being deducted in advance, I can't find where that has been announced.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

.*.*.*.*.*. aka I'm alright Jack (screw you).....

Not really. I've been pretty much self isolating for years as I'm not terribly sociable.
Keep everything open or closed it wont effect me either way. I'm retired and have enough money. If I previously had a cold or the flu I generally didn't think I'll go and visit Grandma and finish her off.
All I'm doing is pointing out that we could be using chemotherapy on a cold here.

The longer we self isolate the more screwed the world economy is going to be. TRNC more so than most.
There is a theory that austerity has caused 120,000 lives which is an nonsense exaggerated figure but if we do buy into that austerity or cuts in the economy cost lives and bear that in mind and compare it with the worldwide deaths to date.

People are going to lose their livelihoods at the end of this. If anyone can argue against that I'm all ears. The argument will need to be a bit more substantial than the money tree though.

Now we self isolate. For how long? 3 months? A year?
And at the end of 3 months, what? The virus has flown back to China? There is a miracle cure on the shelves? Or the deaths go down because we all self isolated and when we go out again there is a second spike and we go back to square one?

As we see with a lot of scare stories there are always agendas.

Some want to see capitalism overthrown. They've seen any moral and economic grounds kill the idea stone dead, are going the scientific route which is a bit slow so will run with this.

Scientists. The more fame hungry will come up with the more dramatic quotes.

The media. Its a story. They exist to sell stories. Deaths Double!!!!!!! is a much better headline than 2 people died Monday and 4 died Tuesday.

Throw in the freshly self trained twiterati virologists and we have this week's end of the world scare.

[erol]

All I'm doing is pointing out that we could be using chemotherapy on a cold here.

We could be but I do defer to those who have expertise and years of experience over my own or your guesses. Not doing these things could just as well be 'fiddling while Rome burns'.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

All I'm doing is pointing out that we could be using chemotherapy on a cold here.

We could be but I do defer to those who have expertise and years of experience over my own or your guesses. Not doing these things could just as well be 'fiddling while Rome burns'.

OK but here's a couple of questions?
1) Do you think austerity and economic suffering costs lives?
2) Do you think that the World and Individual countries economies are going to be affected?
3) Do you think that many people who had a job in January in TRNC aren't going to have a job next January?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

thousands of nurses and other medical workers (mainly from east europe) left the UK during the brexit thing.

Ah it's down to Brexit? Damn I lost a fiver, I backed Waz to bring that up. I'll bet Italy regret leaving the EU now....

[EnjoyingTheSun]

This thread has taken the sheen of personal attacks, mob rounding on individuals because you don't like an alternative view being expressed and I find that abhorrent.

Bring it on, I have the skin of a rhino

[EnjoyingTheSun]

To add perhaps a little levity to the situation in the Uk…………….I must say I wouldn't mind taking the 80 percent a month for staying at home, on the last salary that I had prior to coming here. The company I worked for will be able to afford it, providing I fall off my perch within the next 12-15 years.

Felicity, I do think there may be a fair few jobs that companies now find weren't that important after all. HR must be devastated, if they don't have meetings to call and attend I struggle to see how they are going to fill the other 39 hours of their week. The last sentence reminds me of the old Jackie Mason joke, I have enough money to last me the rest of my life as long as I die Tuesday.

On a not so complacent thought, is whether my private pensions are safe and there will be enough in the pot to keep state pension going. I mean to say all these trillions that is being handed out as from next week can't last for ever. Is NI being deducted in advance, I can't find where that has been announced.

You're not a disciple of money tree economics then?
Well I don't think that state pensions will see too many inflation busting rises in the medium to long term.
This is going to cut chunks of the GDP of The World so be prepared for a fair bit of cost cutting.
A small price to pay if it has saved millions of lives but maybe not the greatest idea if all it did was stop old Aunt Elsie dying two days early.

[Chriswright03]

All I'm doing is pointing out that we could be using chemotherapy on a cold here.

We could be but I do defer to those who have expertise and years of experience over my own or your guesses. Not doing these things could just as well be 'fiddling while Rome burns'.

OK but here's a couple of questions?
1) Do you think austerity and economic suffering costs lives?
2) Do you think that the World and Individual countries economies are going to be affected?
3) Do you think that many people who had a job in January in TRNC aren't going to have a job next January?

I make that three. For someone who seems to pride themselves on accuracy bit of a schoolboy error but then maybe you are so anxious to continue your argument with all and sundry you were in too much of a hurry to press the enter button.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

I make that three. For someone who seems to pride themselves on accuracy bit of a schoolboy error but then maybe you are so anxious to continue your argument with all and sundry you were in too much of a hurry to press the enter button.

Tell me are the grammar police designated as a key worker?
There was two and I added one, so shot me!
Anyhow want to have a stab at the questions or have you made your pointless?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

I'm not big on conspiracy theories but this is an interesting read

https://www.tradersmagazine.com/am/is-t ... ket-crash/

[Mowgli597]

Coronavirus deaths: What we don’t know

An interesting take on the topic which I think ETS is arguing.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Coronavirus deaths: What we don’t know

An interesting take on the topic which I think ETS is arguing.

Yes that covers it nicely thank you.

There seems to be a view that I'm saying lets all feel sorry for the owners of the big Hotel Casinos because they will lose a lot of money. If that is the view then I haven't explained myself correctly.
I am saying that the 50 people who clean the rooms for 100 TL a day now have no money. When the hotel re-opens you can guarantee that the 50 will be 30 or 40 as their employers look to cut costs.
They are the ones I feel for. They are the ones that will want to take a selfish risk going out to work because I'm not seeing anyone else rush to give them their 100 TL a day. I can't see the government taking that on and if they do with what?
But I guess I can join you all and feel virtuous in my self isolation as I turn away the guy I pay £3 an hour to do my garden or the guy I pay a £2 a day to look after my pool as he isn't needed. After all we can hardly call cleaning a pool an essential service. And just think of all those people they could infect at 6 in the morning as we go out to hug them.

By the way if the government do the right thing and step in and help these people, don't whine next year when you are paying more property tax residency charges etc etc.

[kibsolar1999]

from, Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:45 am ..

sorry,i forgot the link

https://web.br.de/interaktiv/corona-simulation/

[Chriswright03]

I cannot get my head round why you keep banging on about what is happening here when the thread is clearly entitled 'What's happening in the UK'

Perhaps we could return to the subject and discuss the TRNC elsewhere if need be.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

I cannot get my head round why you keep banging on about what is happening here when the thread is clearly entitled 'What's happening in the UK'

Perhaps we could return to the subject and discuss the TRNC elsewhere if need be.

Erol bought up my comments on non-essential shops not closing here from another thread, and as I have found to my cost in the past if I miss answering one of Erol's points he will accuse me of avoiding the subject.
That said it wasn't a totally off thread point every country is going to face a massive economic hit on this which is going to substantially effect a lot of people's lives.

Anyhow if you don’t have an answer for;

1) Do you think austerity and economic suffering costs lives?
2) Do you think that the World and Individual countries economies are going to be affected?
3) Do you think that many people who had a job in January in TRNC aren't going to have a job next January?

Just say! No harm done

[Chriswright03]

Ask the question in a different thread and I may consider answering it. I am quite happy to discuss anything but am not interested in engaging in an argument let alone in the wrong place. You cannot even concede you have taken it off topic so little point in trying to reason with you.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Ask the question in a different thread and I may consider answering it. I am quite happy to discuss anything but am not interested in engaging in an argument let alone in the wrong place. You cannot even concede you have taken it off topic so little point in trying to reason with you.

I pointed out where the subject was in your opinion taken off topic but ok let’s keep this 100% UK based.
Here we go;
1) Do you think austerity and economic suffering costs lives in the UK?
2) Do you think that the UK economy is going to be affected?
3) Do you think that many people who had a job in January in the UK aren't going to have a job next January?

[Chriswright03]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Who can tell?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Who can tell?

OK thank you.

As a follow up to question 1 do you think its beyond the realms of possibility that the lives lost to the economic downturn/austerity that the UK is almost certainly going to face might heavily outweigh the potential extra deaths due to the coronavirus?

As for number 3 I'd be happy to have a large bet that unemployment in the UK is going to soar as a result of this.

[PoshinDevon]

Just been reading thro a few posts on a North Cyprus Facebook site. The posts were from ex pats who were over 70 and moaning about having to isolate. The jist of the argument was I am fit and healthy, have no health problems so no one is going to make me stay in. I will be going out shopping and meeting friends

I am frankly amazed at the stupidity and I am all right jack attitude of some.

I tried to explain that being over 70 placed them in a vulnerable group and no matter if they are fit and healthy they could well pick up the virus, carry it around for a number of days and spread it amongst friends and the people they meet without even knowing it. It takes a few days to show before anyone starts to realise. I also suggested that perhaps friends and neighbours could help with shopping etc but this was ignored.....”I am fit and healthy was the response”.

It’s these selfish individuals who are a danger to themselves and others and it is these people who will ensure that the virus is around for a lot longer.

I simply do not understand the logic of some people.

Rant over.

[Chriswright03]

In short none of us know what will happen over the next few weeks or months. Personally I cannot see the point in speculation. So I don't have an answer.

For me there is far too much speculation and not enough concentration on trying very hard in these first few weeks to give all of us a fighting chance of getting off as light as is physically possible. Whilst people are happy to dismiss this virus as nothing as bad as normal flu the fact remains than none of us will in our life times remember that shops and businesses were shut wholesale.

I would rather avoid the daft circular arguments about politics and try and persuade people in general to treat this as being the most serious crisis we have ever had to face for many a year. Be that people who just refuse to self isolate here or anywhere as they think their life is more important than anyone else they come into contact with or the daft buggers who think that filling the house with toilet rolls is the answer.

Any government of whatever colour will be dammed if they do and dammed if they don't. Arguing about it none stop on here won't change a thing.

Having just read your post Posh I agree with you. I am no longer a part of the Ex Pats group so do not read it but I am aware of a number of people who insist on meeting the rest of their bar fly mates at their houses to carry on with their banal conversations whilst getting pissed because they know better. They do not consider their actions because they do not consider they are doing anything wrong.

[wjms]

Just been reading thro a few posts on a North Cyprus Facebook site. The posts were from ex pats who were over 70 and moaning about having to isolate.

I am frankly amazed at the stupidity and I am all right jack attitude of some.

It’s these selfish individuals who are a danger to themselves and others and it is these people who will ensure that the virus is around for a lot longer.

I simply do not understand the logic of some people.

Rant over.

Posh, I saw the topic you refer to, was going to say something, but you hit the nail on the head.

To bring this a little towards the topic of this thread, I have seen and been told of a very similar attitude by some of the elderly at-risk group in the UK too.

Like you, I fail to understand their way of thinking.

James

[PoshinDevon]

At the beginning of last week there was a report of a coach trip with a good number of more senior people on board which stopped off at a well known local attraction close to where we live. It was reported they mingled with others, went into the cafe and obviously used the facilities.

I found this absolutely crazy. Why didn’t the tour organiser cancel, why didn’t the coach company refuse to take these vulnerable people? People simply were not getting the message.

Fortunately; the government closing all cafes, pubs, restaurants, cinemas, gyms etc will in the main put a stop to some of this craziness. However; for those who are over 70 or in a vulnerable category to continue socialising with others indoors is again crazy.

There has been a big push over the last couple of days to try and ram the message home. We can only hope that it’s getting thro.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

At the beginning of last week there was a report of a coach trip with a good number of more senior people on board which stopped off at a well known local attraction close to where we live. It was reported they mingled with others, went into the cafe and obviously used the facilities.

I found this absolutely crazy. Why didn’t the tour organiser cancel, why didn’t the coach company refuse to take these vulnerable people? People simply were not getting the message.

Might be a candidate for the Darwin awards if they are still going.
I'm still of the mind that we don't need the state to inform us of personal responsibility.
When I had had a cold or even flu (not man flu) in the past or there was a particular virulent strain of it doing the rounds I didn't think I must pop round and visit all my elderly relatives.
I also don't need tips/reminders to wash my hands.

[Dalartokat]

At the beginning of last week there was a report of a coach trip with a good number of more senior people on board which stopped off at a well known local attraction close to where we live. It was reported they mingled with others, went into the cafe and obviously used the facilities.

I found this absolutely crazy. Why didn’t the tour organiser cancel, why didn’t the coach company refuse to take these vulnerable people? People simply were not getting the message.

Fortunately; the government closing all cafes, pubs, restaurants, cinemas, gyms etc will in the main put a stop to some of this craziness. However; for those who are over 70 or in a vulnerable category to continue socialising with others indoors is again crazy.

There has been a big push over the last couple of days to try and ram the message home. We can only hope that it’s getting thro.

Cornwall dosnt want the tourist either, also happening in Cumbria with hotels actively encouraging tourists.


https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornw ... ts-3967417
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-51975411

[Soner]

I'm still of the mind that we don't need the state to inform us of personal responsibility.
When I had had a cold or even flu (not man flu) in the past or there was a particular virulent strain of it doing the rounds I didn't think I must pop round and visit all my elderly relatives.
I also don't need tips/reminders to wash my hands.

ETS, the problem is many do. You only have to go into the Gents to notice how many walk out without washing their hands.

[Keithcaley]

... You only have to go into the Gents to notice how many walk out without washing their hands.

That's why the peanuts on the bar have such a piquant flavour

[Soner]

Never tried them, nor the sweets that are unwrapped in a bowl in some restuarants.
But thanks Keith for testing them out and letting us know.

[kibsolar1999]

Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:47 pm
Since the Coronavirus arrived in the UK on 31st January, 50 days ago, there have been 3983 cases and 177 deaths.
yesterday evening: 5067/ 233.
56 dead in 1 day.

"death average age" in italy down from 82 to 78. btw, 70% males.

[Soner]

Coronavirus victim Tara Jane Langston Tells everyone to not take any chances.



https://youtu.be/cpRlI-W_cEc

[PoshinDevon]

At the beginning of last week there was a report of a coach trip with a good number of more senior people on board which stopped off at a well known local attraction close to where we live. It was reported they mingled with others, went into the cafe and obviously used the facilities.

I found this absolutely crazy. Why didn’t the tour organiser cancel, why didn’t the coach company refuse to take these vulnerable people? People simply were not getting the message.

Might be a candidate for the Darwin awards if they are still going.
I'm still of the mind that we don't need the state to inform us of personal responsibility.
When I had had a cold or even flu (not man flu) in the past or there was a particular virulent strain of it doing the rounds I didn't think I must pop round and visit all my elderly relatives.
I also don't need tips/reminders to wash my hands.

Have to disagree with some of your comments.

Sadly there are people who for whatever reason feel they have no need to follow the very best advice given by the PM who is of course guided by the senior medical and scientific officers. They walk amongst us which is frightening, Another example of this failure to comprehend is that earlier this week the National Trust (NT) closed there houses and cafes. However they said that the grounds and gardens to these properties would remain open so people could still enjoy them.....provided they followed the guidelines re social distancing. The NT have now announced that grounds and gardens will be closed as the public simply are not following best advice. As for washing hands, again there are those that do need reminding, it’s not difficult to notice within minutes people leaving a toilet without making any attempt to carry out this basic act of cleanliness.

Over the last week the noose here in the U.K. has been slowly tightening and personally I do think that the general consensus of opinion is that people trust the experts stood either side of the PM. No one will know until this is all over but my belief is that the U.K. is taking the right path with a further full lockdown to come in the next week or so.

Everything of course is not perfect; with reported shortages of face masks, ventilators, hospital beds and doctors/nurses. However; given the rapid growth and spread of this virus the measures being taken and announcements in the past couple of days gives me confidence that these are being addressed. Again the financial and support measures announced by the chancellor are correct and being introduced with utmost speed.

If only the supermarkets had got a grip of the “panic” buying earlier then maybe we would not be seeing the empty shelves. They failed to take action to prevent trolly loads of toilet roll etc disappearing out of the doors until it was to late. But hey they walk amongst us. Again the advice is to shop sensibly but some refuse to do this and if more draconian curbs on this practice are put in place then I would not be surprised and would support it.

The stark message from the PM yesterday urging people not to visit and gather for Mother’s Day is yet another reminder to everyone. The government advice is there to influence and educate people. If people refuse to follow then the NHS will be overwhelmed and sadly there will be thousands more deaths.

[erol]

Yes austerity kills. Unlike with the virus currently we do have 'data' on this. We know who it kills, the poor, and we know what the cure is, alleviating poverty. Now the 'traditional' approach to alleviating poverty has been to 'grow the economy' but this is not the only way. You can alleviate poverty without growing the economy by changing the distribution of wealth and resources within that economy.

The measures being taken to limit the negative outcomes of this pandemic may result, down the line, in negative outcomes worse than those we seek to mitigate. We do not and currently can not know if this is the case or not. We just make the best guesses we can. It is perfectly valid to ask the question is the 'treatment' worse that the thing being treated. Asking the question however does not provide an answer.

It is possible that the virus is only killing those who would have died anyway within a year. We do not have enough data to know the degree to which this is the case. If I look at those I know personally and worry about, be it my healthy 84 year old mother or my 40 year old friend with a history of previously non life threatening respiratory issues, I do not think they are almost certain to die within the next 12 months regardless of the virus or not. I do think this virus materially increases the chance that they could die within the next 12 months.

When a storm is coming pointing out that we do not know exactly what the extent of the damage of that storm will be is not imo an argument to therefore do nothing or only do things that cost nothing until after we have seen what the effect of the storm are. I think this is true whether the storm is a pandemic or climate change or any number of other coming storms.

All we can do is make the best guesses we can and some of those WILL be wrong but what else can we do ?

[Groucho]

You can alleviate poverty without growing the economy by changing the distribution of wealth and resources within that economy.

A week after this there would those who had managed to end up with nothing again I fear...

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Erol, the amount of deaths from austerity and stopping austerity by using the money tree is an argument for another day and thread I think.

The point I was trying to illustrate is that this "cure" also costs lives, the question is will it cost more lives? My worry is that it will. Generally any cure to a problem has drawbacks. You want stricter law and order then you will lose some freedom and so on. So it is always risk versus reward.

The other big question is not that the virus is very contagious or a particularly nasty strain of flu but what is the mortality rate, and that data is all over the place. I'm most inclined to follow Germany's data but short of testing everyone at the end of this and finding out how many self isolated and got better on their own we may never know.


This is quite an interesting read. It covers why the figures from Italy are so worrying.

https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Over the last week the noose here in the U.K. has been slowly tightening and personally I do think that the general consensus of opinion is that people trust the experts stood either side of the PM. No one will know until this is all over but my belief is that the U.K. is taking the right path with a further full lockdown to come in the next week or so.

There was always going to be a need for a lock down my worry is that the media coverage may have pushed Johnson into calling it too early before the optimum time.

Yes I think his experts have been unjustly vilified but the dramatic will always play/sell better than the practical.

I guarantee you if we both bought out a dieting book and your selling point was eat less and eat more vegetables fruit etc and mine was you can eat what and how much you like as long as you eat 3 slices of chocolate cake a day and backed with some junk science mine will fly off the shelves because it is the easy and popular solution. Doesn't mean it is right.

If only the supermarkets had got a grip of the “panic” buying earlier then maybe we would not be seeing the empty shelves. They failed to take action to prevent trolly loads of toilet roll etc disappearing out of the doors until it was to late. But hey they walk amongst us. Again the advice is to shop sensibly but some refuse to do this and if more draconian curbs on this practice are put in place then I would not be surprised and would support it.

This will always happen and the supermarkets were slow to react, but that is the operative word governments etc were reacting rather than acting.

There are a lot of very selfish and impatient people who have no interest in anyone but themselves. There are a lot of people who have zero idea of responsibility. There are a lot of people that have very mixed up values.

Hopefully this will give society the big reset that it has needed for a long time and we all come out of it stronger and nicer.

[erol]

The point I was trying to illustrate is that this "cure" also costs lives, the question is will it cost more lives? My worry is that it will. Generally any cure to a problem has drawbacks. You want stricter law and order then you will lose some freedom and so on. So it is always risk versus reward.

I understand you point and as I have said these are valid questions to ask. The point I was making is that merely asking the question does not provide an answer. Yes it is a worry that the treatment might end up being worse than the thing treated. Just as it is a worry that not applying such treatment now will mean that things end up much worse than they could have had the treatment been used.

The other big question is not that the virus is very contagious or a particularly nasty strain of flu but what is the mortality rate, and that data is all over the place. I'm most inclined to follow Germany's data but short of testing everyone at the end of this and finding out how many self isolated and got better on their own we may never know.

I understand we do not have sufficient data to be able to make 'sound' judgements on such things. I am just saying anecdotally that when I look at the situation of my 40 year friend it seems clear to me that not only does the chance of him catching this virus increase the chance of him dying decades earlier than before it, the chance that he catches at a time when there is no ICU bed left to treat him should he do so also increases the chance that he will die decades earlier than if there is such an ICU bed available.

[erol]

There was always going to be a need for a lock down my worry is that the media coverage may have pushed Johnson into calling it too early before the optimum time.

Who is to blame for things like this ? The media or us the people that by our own actions and choices reward media sensationalism for profit ?

Hopefully this will give society the big reset that it has needed for a long time and we all come out of it stronger and nicer.

Amen to that.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Wouldn't it be worth it if we came out of this a nicer society.

We start to band together against the bullies in society. The police tackle anti-social behavior rather than only tackling the most heinous crimes and letting bad behaviour slide. I'm a firm believer in the broken window policy. Let's stop making excuses for anti-social behaviour, the fact that you aren't well off doesn't have to make people bullies or violent.

We learn a bit of personal responsibility. It isn't the state's job to mollycoddle you from cradle to grave. Your responsibility to your vulnerable relatives doesn't end with a call to the care services. As for non relatives, lets look at for each other a bit more

Stuff really isn't that important. The simple things such as health, food and water are what keeps us going not what car you have or what smartphone. During this crisis we have heard of some awful acts of selfishness and some wonderful acts of kindness and generosity. I now have to live the rest of my life not hating Gary Neville.
Maybe when we now speak of people we speak of their character rather than than what they own. You never hear what a nice fellow Gary is, you hear have you seen Gary's house or new car.

Society is what WE make it not what the government makes it.

[erol]

Careful ETS you are starting to sound like a bearded guardian reading university lecturer to a significant degree to me

[EnjoyingTheSun]

I understand you point and as I have said these are valid questions to ask. The point I was making is that merely asking the question does not provide an answer. Yes it is a worry that the treatment might end up being worse than the thing treated. Just as it is a worry that not applying such treatment now will mean that things end up much worse than they could have had the treatment been used.

Its such a hard call as to what is/was the right course of action. Immediate mandatory self isolation might be the answer, The herd immunisation also might have something going for it. Maybe a staggered mixture of the two.
I wouldn't necessary criticise anyone for making the wrong call only the history books will know for sure.
My worry is that sometimes governments feel rushed into being seen to do something when doing less is the right answer.

I'm not seeing that those now not going to the pub and joining the crowds at the supermarket to buy more loo roll are helping much but on the positive since the coronavirus we're not hearing much about preferred pronouns or what bathroom everyone gets to use.

I am just saying anecdotally that when I look at the situation of my 40 year friend it seems clear to me that not only does the chance of him catching this virus increase the chance of him dying decades earlier than before it, the chance that he catches at a time when there is no ICU bed left to treat him should he do so also increases the chance that he will die decades earlier than if there is such an ICU bed available.

So the case for him self isolating and having supplies bought to him by friends is a strong one. The case for me and you planning to self isolate and making our contribution to stripping the shelves bare, less so.
Also the panic that if you have the sniffles you will die isn't helping.
If me or you are taking up space in a hospital with our man flu or even corona virus which we could self cure by staying at home and feeling sorry for ourselves that makes it less likely that he will get the treatment he needs.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Careful ETS you are starting to sound like a bearded guardian reading university lecturer to a significant degree to me

Appreciating niceness isn't a monopoly of Guardian readers you know. Acknowledging that there are a lot of scumbags out there and it is their fault is where they struggle I think.
Anyhow when this is over it is your round!

[erol]

Anyhow when this is over it is your round!

Indeed. Coronas all round

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Indeed. Coronas all round

I can imagine their marketing executives will be busy during isolation!