Virus a new question.

[kibsolar1999]

when you scale up the swedish numbers to uk population...
you come to 120k cases, 4k new cases a day and 15k dead.
(uk: 140/4,6/19)

In Sweden itself, almost 2,000 scientists asked the Swedish government to review their position.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

when you scale up the swedish numbers to uk population...
you come to 120k cases, 4k new cases a day and 15k dead.
(uk: 140/4,6/19)

In Sweden itself, almost 2,000 scientists asked the Swedish government to review their position.

Obviously going down the herd route is going to have different short term results than going down the lockdown route. This is trying to guess a football result after 10 minutes of the game. What will be the only indicator of comparative success is how many extra death pro rata Sweden has compared with the UK.
As for how many scientists are saying something different, that is going down the route of 97% of scientists faux fact re climate change.
Science isn't a concensus only one needs to be right. Many intellectuals of the day fully supported the witch trials.

[Mowgli597]

One question raised its head as I watched the protests in several US States against lockdown, here in Ireland as a court case was brought challenging the constitutionality of the lockdown measures and supporters of the challenge gathered in large numbers outside the courts, and other places/comments questioning the moves to try to protect populations by isolation/social distancing etc.

Would those protesting be willing to volunteer to go into nursing/care homes to look after the residents there? Without PPE? I’m sure they would be welcomed with open arms - as long as they didn’t bring the virus in with them (going out with the virus would be ok!)

Just a thought.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

TBH I usually discount America from any rational discussion.
They demand the right to bear arms for safety even though statistically they have far more change or blowing their own head off loading the gun than shooting a robber. Or they need the guns to form a militia in case their own government forms a dictatorship. Yeah but then they'll have nukes, aircraft carriers and jets so good luck with your semi automatic rifles

[waz-24-7]

The COVID 19 virus will eventually be beaten by a vaccine.
However, The virus is probably a mutation of past covid type virus such as SARS. There will be many more mutations and variants of the virus in years to come and I expect many more threats and attacks. The global community must act as one upon reporting very early any threat. and outbreak. Isolation early with modern tracking technology is the only way to progress and secure a strategy for this very real threat to mankind and society.
Viruses in general are very simple and made of a number of quite basic building blocks like pieces of lego they form a simple structure made of genetic material.
It is the way that they are able to attach too and invade host cells ( human respiratory tract cells mainly) that makes them successful and often deadly.

The COVID 19 virus is one that is known as having a self primed surface and is instantly ready to invade the host cell. Its a bit like having the pistol ready cocked to fire instantly as opposed to having the safety catch on until ready to fire. ( flu virus for example)
This instant ability to fire presents difficulty in destroying it quickly enough. Once the virus has passed its genetic material to the host ( the shot has been fired) then its just too late.

DO NOT inject yourself with disinfectant as per Mr Trump. Cant believe that man or indeed the way the USA has lost its way.

[Reyntj]

Regarding what trump said there is a very apt saying: a dying man clutches at straws

[Keithcaley]

The COVID 19 virus will eventually be beaten by a vaccine

We hope!

It is by no means certain, although I fervently hope that it will happen.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

The COVID 19 virus will eventually be beaten by a vaccine

We hope!

It is by no means certain, although I fervently hope that it will happen.

If the UK got a vaccination tomorrow it would take them the best part of a year to vaccinate everybody by which time the virus could have mutated enough that the original vaccine is useless or another virus has popped over.
The lock down while we wait for a vaccine route is completely un-viable. It always was but surely must be becoming apparent to even it's biggest supporters.

[MVP]

Forget the vaccine stories, these are just trotted out as propaganda to keep the plebs happy.

A vaccine is at least 18 months away , and then would you risk it with something that hasn't been through proper testing and could have long term health implications?

I suspect the Swedes will be deemed the smart ones at the final tally, others are just putting off the inevitable.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Forget the vaccine stories, these are just trotted out as propaganda to keep the plebs happy.

A vaccine is at least 18 months away , and then would you risk it with something that hasn't been through proper testing and could have long term health implications?

I suspect the Swedes will be deemed the smart ones at the final tally, others are just putting off the inevitable.

I'd agree with this, sadly you had to accept there would be some deaths from this and plan accordingly.
Fortunately I suspect that the numbers will be nowhere near the doomsday scenarios quoted.

[finchy]

I was unsure as to make this post as I’ve had enough of trying to explain this to people.

This has been a huge plandemic since day one and deaths will probably end up round about the same as seasonal flu. The problem will be is that you have statistics and statisticians who will adjust figures to suit what they want to put out to the mainstream media.

How could Imperial college get the figures so badly wrong; they surely have to be held accountable for the lockdown.

The resultant deaths and mental health issues after the virus will be far worse than the virus could ever be with the world’s economy on its backside.

Bill Gates (major funder of WHO) wants the whole world vaccinated and that is the reason for this charade.

The FEAR is so great that people will be queuing up for a vaccine, even if one comes out next week. Trump is being blasted by the media by using the words Dis-infect-ant when putting a question to Dorothy Birx, who also happens to want everyone vaccinated. I understand Trump’s sarcasm; he does come out with some belters.

Would you want this injected into you?

25 mcg of Mercury
Squalene MF59 (often shark liver oil)
Polysorbate 80 (chemical compounds derived from the dehydration of sugar alcohol)
Egg Protein
Sodium deoxycholate (ionic detergent)
Ethanol
Formaldehyde (embalming fluid)
a-tocopheryl hydrogen succinate (an adjuvant, which is a carrier for the virus)
Triton x 100 (detergent)
Disodium hydrogen phosphate heptahydrate (buffering agent/coagulant)
Dog kidney cells

The above is what they put into the flu vaccine; I would probably want disinfectant tbh. In many other vaccines they often use aborted fetal cells (unbelievable isn’t it). And people believe that there are no side effects? The insert with drugs actually highlights the risks but they are hugely ignored, mainly due to the size of the print and wordiness.

How can the Pharma companies be sure that the vaccine won’t react with the medication that an individual is already taking? How will multiple vaccines react against one another? It could be worse than mixing drinks.

The levels of mercury in the flu vaccine are 5 x the max amount as recommended by the FDA. You wouldn’t be allowed to drink water with that level of mercury.

As an engineer, I’ve worked in the Pharma industry and all aspects of design and construction, needs to be in accordance with FDA requirements from start through to validation but clearly these exacting standards are not applied to the actual drugs/vaccines which overwhelmingly
exceed toxicity levels.


A vaccine is not a cure. It will indeed give the antibody response, so can be deemed effective, but not necessarily the immune response, so therefore cannot always claim to prevent disease. The flu vaccine, for example, has been found to be largely ineffective for the elderly.

I have never been ill, never been in hospital and I have never been on any form of medication, I don’t see why I should be forced into having a vaccine because of this virus.
Our body has its own immune system, it’s a fantastic machine if you look after it and feed it well.

Holistic view - Type A person – Strong immune system, looks after themselves by eating healthily and exercising, doesn’t get sick and doesn’t need a vaccine.

Allopathic view -Type B person – don’t have a strong immune system, poor diet, junk food, no exercise, on medication and needs a vaccine

The more we become reliant on vaccines, the weaker our immune system will become, leaving us open to attack.

[MVP]

On the radio in the UK the NHS are now appealing for people to visit A&E.

It seems like the government have scared the yokels so much they would rather die at home with a heart attack than visit their local hospital

This is probably due to the 2500 unexplained deaths last week.

You couldn't make it up.

[MVP]

Group called Edge Health has just issued a report in the Telegraph estimating 10,000 have died since the coronavirus outbreak because they couldn't or wouldn't access NHS care for heart, stroke and diabetes etc

[finchy]

It's unbelievable what has gone on and what is still going on.
We are fed continual lies, some front line workers are rushed off their feet whilst others have nothing to do.
The Nightingale facility in London with 4000 beds has had hardly any patients and they are blaming it on a lack of staff, I think its really because of a lack of patients. It's an insult to our intelligence, would you really build something if you couldn't provide the staff?

[erol]

It's unbelievable what has gone on and what is still going on.
We are fed continual lies, some front line workers are rushed off their feet whilst others have nothing to do.
The Nightingale facility in London with 4000 beds has had hardly any patients and they are blaming it on a lack of staff, I think its really because of a lack of patients. It's an insult to our intelligence, would you really build something if you couldn't provide the staff?

Why do you think it is finchy that you can 'see' and 'understand' all this while so few others can. What makes you so 'special' vs the rest of us do you think ? How can you spot what is a lie that convinces so many others ?

[finchy]

It's unbelievable what has gone on and what is still going on.
We are fed continual lies, some front line workers are rushed off their feet whilst others have nothing to do.
The Nightingale facility in London with 4000 beds has had hardly any patients and they are blaming it on a lack of staff, I think its really because of a lack of patients. It's an insult to our intelligence, would you really build something if you couldn't provide the staff?

Why do you think it is finchy that you can 'see' and 'understand' all this while so few others can. What makes you so 'special' vs the rest of us do you think ? How can you spot what is a lie that convinces so many others ?

Oh, I'm not on my own here, why do you think so many people have started to go to work.
Why would you build a 4000 bed facility (with tax payers money) and then say you had no staff?
I have spoken to friend that work for the NHS and they say that they are getting embarressed by all the clapping as they have nothing to do. They are only at 25% capacity in A&E and in a lot of other departments because like it's been said in a post before that people aren't going to hospital. Far less patients and the same amount of staff, yet the government are telling us they are overloaded. Seriously?

[erol]

Oh, I'm not on my own here,

I was unsure as to make this post as I’ve had enough of trying to explain this to people.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

How can you spot what is a lie that convinces so many others ?

Personally I use my BS detector and play the odds that EVERYONE of these doomsday scenarios has been a false alarm.
I'm sure one of these day's a person might actually have the right to sell me The Eiffel Tower for a bargain price but I'm going to play the odds and always pass on the opportunity, more fool me I guess.

The only good thing with this is that in a years time we will pretty much know what the true story is. I am sure those that have championed the worst case scenarios will have a go at proving the numbers but if the total numbers of world deaths doesn't go up by a significant amount then logic tells us it wasn't as bad as we were led to believe. They'll be a fair bit of wriggling and spin which will be as amusing as always but it will be simple maths.
This is why I have unsuccessfully tried to get a number from those who think I am underestimating the danger.
It's mainly because I have got a bit tired over the whole climate change moving the goalposts and can see the same scenario will happen here.

But I guess if you say that this virus so dangerous that 99% of today's population will be dead in 100 years you will be right.

[finchy]

Oh, I'm not on my own here,

I was unsure as to make this post as I’ve had enough of trying to explain this to people.

Oh, I'm not on my own here - they are also trying to explain things on their platforms

I was unsure as to make this post as I’ve had enough of trying to explain this to people - Trying to explain things on these platforms

And slowly we are getting through to people who are starting to realise 'what the heck is going on'.
Many are going back to work whilst they can because any longer and they won't have jobs to go to.

The world economy is in bits Any gains since 2008 have already been eroded and we have far worse to come (can anybody see this or is it just me?).
Something was mentioned to me the other day, if all of this money needs to be paid back somehow, un-employment is through the roof, people are also having to take up to 25% pay cuts, would it be ok to reduce state pensions? I think a lot of people would be would want the lock down to end on Monday

[EnjoyingTheSun]

The world economy is in bits Any gains since 2008 have already been eroded and we have far worse to come (can anybody see this or is it just me?).
Something was mentioned to me the other day, if all of this money needs to be paid back somehow, un-employment is through the roof, people are also having to take up to 25% pay cuts, would it be ok to reduce state pensions? I think a lot of people would be would want the lock down to end on Monday

We will just print more money, no problem.
Oh hold on to sound a bit more professional like we know what the hell we are doing we will sell Government Bonds

[finchy]

[quote=finchy post_id=252231 time=<a href="tel:1587825697">1587825697</a> user_id=5430]

The world economy is in bits Any gains since 2008 have already been eroded and we have far worse to come (can anybody see this or is it just me?).
Something was mentioned to me the other day, if all of this money needs to be paid back somehow, un-employment is through the roof, people are also having to take up to 25% pay cuts, would it be ok to reduce state pensions? I think a lot of people would be would want the lock down to end on Monday

We will just print more money, no problem.
Oh hold on to sound a bit more professional like we know what the hell we are doing we will sell Government Bonds
[/quote]

I don’t understand economics, so I haven’t got a clue if you are serious. I’d go for anything if I could see any work for me in the future, that my wife doesn’t have to take a 25% pay cut, my daughter manages to get some more work to pay for her crazy rent in London, whilst also having to look after 2 children and both my sons after being furloughed still have a job to go to. Crazy times with bad times to come

[kibsolar1999]

finchy...

you seem to be a lucky guy.. not sick at all... never been in the hospital. many are not that happy.. not because they eat too much nutella, no, they are born sick or say, not as healthy as you. how do you "classify" people who don’t have a strong immune system but looking after themselves by eating healthily and exercising?


pls be so kind answer my question... which vaccines especially for children you want to scrap? and in which one of those fetal tissue is used?

to (one /two of) your claims:
The levels of mercury in the flu vaccine are 5 x the max amount as recommended by the FDA. You wouldn’t be allowed to drink water with that level of mercury.
in the flu vaccines ETHYLmercury is used, not METHYLmercury. thats an important difference. flu vaccines with no mercury at all is also available.

and
The flu vaccine, for example, has been found to be largely ineffective for the elderly.
not largely. 30% for the above 60 yrs old. and you know why? because they are old. the immun system does not work properly any more. that also applies for other vaccines. that simple it is.

i can see your points and some i support.. this applies for MCS (multiple chemical syndroms), a healthier life, 5 G objections and even that there too many lies around.
but to say bill gates planned covid 19 because he wants everybody to be vaccinated (Bill Gates (major funder of WHO) wants the whole world vaccinated and that is the reason for this charade) is a bit strange.

thanks ETS for answering a question from erol to finchy and which he did not answer.

[Reyntj]

Anyone on social media will be seeing the fake conspiracy theories being peddled. One of the main culprits is david ike which says it all really. However there are a lot of vulnerable Susceptible people locked in at home many of them with low intelligence and mental health issues .

You only have to look at the people spreading these rumors and its often not the brightest sparks. Its very dangerous for mental health reasons. Bi polar etc are prone to believing there are higher forces at work which is exactly what these fake rumors are promoting.

Im sure most people use their common sense everytime i get one of these fake videos etc i report it to facebook. Most of the stuff gets taken down. The reason facebook and co are taking this stuff down is not because they are controlled by bill gates the illuminati or some other secret its because its dangerous bs.

[finchy]

Kibsolar

Ok, I’ll try to answer your questions

In my opinion, children should not need to be vaccinated from birth. They try to stick a VK injection into babies within minutes..what the heck. In Japan they won’t vaccinate children before the age on 2 as they don’t think that the child will have had sufficient time to build up their own immune system.

If you have a problem with that then please be so kind and go and ask the Japanese.

This is all my opinion from independent information that is available (that’s if you care to look past the first couple of pages on google).

If the levels of mercury are higher than the FDA’s recommended amount then don’t you think that this is an issue? The whole vaccine is considered toxic, if it was to be dropped in a lab then the lab would have to be cleared.

If you or anyone wants the vaccine then go for it but like I’ve said to you before, it’s not a good enough reason for it to become mandatory.

in which one of those fetal tissue is used? – Without being specific and going through every vaccine on the market, viruses need cells to grow and tend to grow better in cells from humans than from animals, so if I was to hazard a guess then I’d say the majority of the viruses for the vaccine are grown in fetal tissue.


Regarding the effectiveness of the flu vaccine, which page on google did you get 30% from? The CDC in America changes the level of flu vaccine effectiveness every year…do you know why? Because the flu virus mutates and more often than not the type of vaccine produced for the flu season could actually be totally useless 0% worldwide, yet you take the risk with the vaccine??

The purpose of any vaccine is to create the antibodies and it does, however, it doesn’t guarantee that you will be immune, because that is down to your body and an awful lot of people of all ages are quite sick, not just those over 60.

Bill Gates does want the whole world vaccinated, he’s openly said that in countless interviews, this guy could do anything he wanted to get his own way. He’s also said that we have too many people in the world, so wtf does he want to vaccinate people to keep them alive? Covid-19 is for sure a virus, could it be from a lab or could it be from a wild animal, nobody knows for sure at the moment but both are being discussed openly.

The Nuremberg code in August 1947 was introduced in an attempt to give clear rules about what was legal and what was not when conducting human experiments. It didn’t stop did it, they are still experimenting?

You are always going to be in favour of vaccinations, I am not an anti-vaxxer but I am a anti-me or my family vaxxer as I have taken a scientific approach to what is actually being put in these.


(thanks ETS for answering a question from erol to finchy and which he did not answer.) YES I DID
I have spoken to friend that works for the NHS and they say that they are getting embarressed by all the clapping as they have nothing to do. They are only at 25% capacity in A&E and in a lot of other departments because like it's been said in a post before that people aren't going to hospital. Far less patients and the same amount of staff, yet the government are telling us they are overloaded. Seriously?

[finchy]

Have a nice day in isolation

[Reyntj]

Why cant you use your noddle and realise the government are talking about the icu units . A and e is not the icu unit. A and e will be less busy because people are in lock down. Its the special care icu that are overloaded. Having to wear the ppe equipment is making their work double. There is only a finite number of ventilators and the sick need 24 hour care.

Do you really expect people to take you seriously?

Hers an article from guardian a few weeks old .

https://www.theguardian.com/society/com ... eps-coming

The internet is full of people twisting facts to suit this moronic conspiracy theory .

[finchy]

OMG the guardian, how on earth day I miss that.

Why do you keep using conspiracy? A word made up to shut people up if they don't agree with what the mainstream media feeds you.

So if they don't have your view then they are twisting facts, yet you get your information from the internet and mine directly from people who work for the NHS. That busy that they are rehearsing right now for the next tick tock video

Why on earth did they build an ICU facility and then say that they have no staff.?
Typical badly managed NHS on a huge scale, it's never been any different.

[Reyntj]

I posted the guardian article clearly to point out the goverment are referring to the icu units being overloaded . But you have just ignored that point as it doesnt meet your agenda.

A family relative is an anaesthatist and is off work with the virus in liverpool .she says they are maxed out in the icu. Does your friend work in the icu unit? And yes people like you are twisting things . As above really your saying hospitals are not full well no "ooops" sherlock......

They have cancelled a lot if minor operations etc and a and a and e is not busy because the roads pubs and construction sites etc are empty .

Go back and ask your hospital canteen worker friend about the icu units........

Also please read this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

That will explain exactly why i am calling this a conspiracy theory because thats the exact definition

[waz-24-7]

The COVID virus is without doubt the biggest health care emergency in modern times.
It is my opinion that the world and society in general will unlikely to ever return to what has been considered normal.
Why?
The COVID 19 virus is an evolved form of previous. ( eg SARS) It has emerged as a highly contagious and virulent form. It is without doubt that the success of the organism based on its "primed" and superior genome that future mutations will carry forward these dominant features.
It is now the task, not only to defeat the COVID 19 but to formulate strategy to combat the next attack. I envisage a cycle of attacks as the organism mutates over time.
Vaccines are certainly one weapon of choice but these are not an off the shelf piece of kit.
Social distancing and the latest tracking technology are potential measures that can hinder the spread.
It is my opinion that disease tracking via mobile Apps and possibly body implants will become far more common. Possibly, new forms of isolation, care centres, legislation and policing could evolve to effect a strategy. The whole world could become a police state with a vast reduction in freedoms enjoyed previously. A " big brother" type of state is very possible. Global co operation will be essential and many governments and societies will not be willing to play ball. The world heath organisation will not be able to facilitate the essential global plan. The major economies of the world must think very carefully upon their position and how they may join together in a war of all wars. One against the invisible non human aggressor.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

The whole world could become a police state with a vast reduction in freedoms enjoyed previously. A " big brother" type of state is very possible. Global co operation will be essential and many governments and societies will not be willing to play ball. The world heath organisation will not be able to facilitate the essential global plan. The major economies of the world must think very carefully upon their position and how they may join together in a war of all wars. One against the invisible non human aggressor.

It would certainly help the governments of the world to chip us all. I’m not big into conspiracy theories but I guess if I wanted to implement a plan like that over exaggerating a crisis and softening us up with a two month lockdown would be as good a method as any.
I’m assuming ”joining together” will need us to rejoin the EU Waz?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

They have cancelled a lot if minor operations etc and a and a and e is not busy because the roads pubs and construction sites etc are empty .

Go back and ask your hospital canteen worker friend about the icu units........

Sure the ICU units are busy but is it just "minor operations" that have been cancelled?

Our frontline NHS workers have, as always, done a fantastic job. Many have risked their lives and worked arduous hours but, and I don't want to be a spoil sport here, I think elsewhere some might be twiddling their thumbs and have never been so quiet.

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[waz-24-7]

Hello ETS
I suspect the BREXIT matter is currently on the back or at least side burner.
I have , with others, contemplated what may happen on 1st Jan 2021. The inevitable world recession will be problem enough without having to go out and find the "new" global trade opportunities. I hope the government put it on hold.
Certainly the isolationist stand alone views of the BREXIT camp will do very little to combat the very threat to the human race that the NEW pandemics present.
It has become very clear to me, given recent news bullets, how many NHS workers of offshore origin have kept the service going.

I have always championed , co operation and co existence for mutual benefit and support the EU in this. The current crisis that is global illustrates that mankind must live within these notions in order to survive generally.
However, I am disappointed to see most countries trying to deal with the crisis individually. This is possibly simply because the war has been on an unknown field of combat. This most certainly allowed the virus to spread quickly and unhindered, Lessons must be learned ready for the next attack. To retreat behind nationalistic and or political borders will offer little protection.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Certainly the isolationist stand alone views of the BREXIT camp will do very little to combat the very threat to the human race that the NEW pandemics present.

Without going totally off topic I've never been able to get my head around the fact that wanting to trade equally with 195 nations rather than a cosy little club of 27 is isolationist.
I know Italy has been thrilled with the support that they received from the EU. BTW I don't keep up with the EU news as much as you, did Italy pay or get a refund on their 7 million fine for trying to support their tourist industry from collapse due to the crisis?

[erol]

The whole world could become a police state with a vast reduction in freedoms enjoyed previously.

In so many ways and on so many levels to very large degrees, we communally - as groups of individuals on increasing scales, get to chose what kind of society we have and live in and pass on to future generations. What 'myths' we are going to chose to use to enable co operation with each other as strangers with common cause (common myths).

Frustration as an individual that not enough others share or want to share the myths we think will bring the best results is not the same as using such frustration as a convenient excuse so that we can abdicate any personal effort or responsibility from ourselves as indivduals.

Posting / talking / theorising about dangers of 'police states' achieves little in terms of progressive change over time imo and experience. Effort , personal individual effort, almost always is the only route to progressive change. Almost always there is simple effort that individuals could make but so often do not. To give just one example, for I could give endless ones, things like making a 'subject access request', or 'FoI' request are actions individuals can take, have been able to take for most of my lifetime that take some effort and that if done on mass could have more effect than volumes of 'talking' without action but so often are not taken.

If we end up in a police state because of cornavirus it will be our fault and no one else's imo and our culpability will not just be about what we failed to do from today onward but also linked to what we failed to do as individuals for the years and decades prior to this crisis because we could always find something better to do with our time and reasons why any effort from ourselves as individuals was pointless.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

The whole world could become a police state with a vast reduction in freedoms enjoyed previously.

In so many ways and on so many levels to very large degrees, we communally - as groups of individuals on increasing scales, get to chose what kind of society we have and live in and pass on to future generations.

I think fundamentally people either favour a big state or a small state.
I personally favour as small a state as possible as I do not want the state to micro manager my life. I find that generally the state seems very good at bullying the compliant and does little against those that don't comply.

If this crisis has illustrated anything it is that by and large humans are pretty good at mucking through and pulling together without a big brother telling them what to do.

The governments have made some bad decisions and in some cases can't make enough decisions to ensure that people don't fall between the cracks but what has happened is generally people have stepped up and are looking out for each other. Neighbours are keeping an eye out and trying to help vulnerable people that maybe 3 months ago they would have pretty much ignored.
When the state could have put their big boots on and used their authority with the chaos outside supermarkets and social distancing in parks etc their response has been mixed at best, useless at worst.

So for me less is always more

[waz-24-7]

I think, as is often the case, and is particularly the case in the USA. The general public are not being told and informed of all the facts and scenarios.
Rightly so it would be unwise to instil fear and possibly panic.

The recent history ( past decade or so) of microorganism attack upon the human species has been reported and dealt with by best available resources.
The current pandemic, the worst yet, reflects the increasing threat. Man has progressively increased his global coverage, movements , travel and migration have opened new opportunities for other species (microorganisms particularly) to seek and secure new opportunities.
Mankind, as I have said, must now adapt and re align its lifestyle to meet the new threats. This certainly cannot be a singular strategy from individual nations but a uniformed and international plan that could develop a workable fight back. I believe that in the current pandemic. Experts, virologists, biologists, mathematicians, etc are co operating to an increasing degree internationally. It is for governments and leaders to acknowledge that a unified defense is the way forward. This, I fear, is likely to be problematic as for instance the USA blame china already for the COVID 19 spread.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

The current pandemic, the worst yet, reflects the increasing threat. Man has progressively increased his global coverage, movements , travel and migration have opened new opportunities for other species (microorganisms particularly) to seek and secure new opportunities.

Not an advert for free movement and no borders then?

This, I fear, is likely to be problematic as for instance the USA blame china already for the COVID 19 spread.

So it didn't spread from China then?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

The current pandemic, the worst yet, reflects the increasing threat. Man has progressively increased his global coverage, movements , travel and migration have opened new opportunities for other species (microorganisms particularly) to seek and secure new opportunities.

Not an advert for free movement and no borders then?

This, I fear, is likely to be problematic as for instance the USA blame china already for the COVID 19 spread.

So it didn't spread from China then?

[waz-24-7]

ETS
Where it spread from is somewhat immaterial. Better global co operation is definitely required and ALL should now be very aware indeed of this.
If the virus transmission and virality had been made known by authorities then isolation and tracking could have contained it.
China failed on this but it could have been anywhere. The social structure in the vastly populated China and indeed infrastructure in Africa make both these continents more susceptible to the emergence of the next attack.

This is why I say that a global, without borders strategy needs to come forth. Could the WHO organise and structure this ….I doubt it given their lack of real clout within governments.

I think that world leaders will fail to prepare a global strategy as a de centralisation of power and loss of sovereignty is just too important to them.

A global community/Union is the only way to create a workable defence against a world wide enemy. It would be almost impossible to deny freedoms of movement and withholding persons within defined borders. People just would not respect or tolerate such restrictions.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

People just would not respect or tolerate such restrictions.

These would be the same people who in the main have complied with being quarantined in their homes for weeks?

[finchy]

Keeping sick people at home is quarantine, keeping healthy people at home is house arrest

[waz-24-7]

Given that incubation and symptoms may take 14 days to show. The issue remains that carriers and the ill cannot be identified without testing.
The testing issues ( shortage and reliability of) have ben well documented in the UK. House arrest is a logical weapon of defence until such time another is secured and proven.

Has there been any testing in Cyprus?
Without doubt the virus is within the community and will be spreading within same unless the chain of transmission is broken.
There is no cure to this disease and it is simply luck of the draw how the body responds.

[waz-24-7]

People just would not respect or tolerate such restrictions.

These would be the same people who in the main have complied with being quarantined in their homes for weeks?

ETS,
Yes indeed.
My point is that over a few weeks self isolation will prevent and hinder transmission. That's totally accepted.
In the longer term however as the virus mutates and attacks again. It is most unlikely that these measures would prevail without massive unrest and protest within the populations. The whole notion of survival comes to mind.

[erol]

Keeping sick people at home is quarantine, keeping healthy people at home is house arrest

To me describing what we are under, healthy or not, as 'house arrest' is an insult to those who have been placed under real house arrest unjustly around the world, past and present. The truth for me, my truth, is that the vast majority of restrictions I find myself under are with my consent and many of them are things I would be doing anyway without any imposition by authorities.

[erol]

Has there been any testing in Cyprus?

Hard numbers here in the north especially given my lack of native language are difficult to find. Personally I have been an advocate of more testing.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=50901&p=250333&#p250333 and viewtopic.php?p=250404#p250404

My perception is that the South have been and are being 'good' on testing generally, comparative to north and countries generally and specifically testing of 'data samples regardless of symptoms' like projects in paphos and other places to get better data on what is going on.

http://www.newsincyprus.com/news/230398 ... get-tested

and for current south testing numbers and projects generally

https://cyprus-mail.com/2020/04/26/coro ... on-sunday/

[kibsolar1999]

waz
the virus will not "mutate" soon. no need to, it spreads nicely.
and that will happen.... it will "spread and diffuse" deeply into the society, as country sides and so on ( that might happen in sweden soon) , especially when exit plans will come into operation too early.
hot spots no longer will exist, the virus is everywhere.
the UK has to overcome the (flattened) first wave... but then the danger of the second wave is present and if any mistakes are done, eg in favour of the economy, only a complete shut down can be the answer, as epidemiologist say (and the mathematic models show). spain like, italy like, maybe worse.
in germany they just have this discussion as well. Reproduction number must be smaller as 1, better lower around 0,5 and new infections should be max, say, 300 hundred a day. meaning, not to introduce too quickly easing measures, masks, distance, hygiene, an app to track cases and many many more testings. just germany alone would need 2 million tests a week. thats 2,5 % of the population every week.
(for NC: all testings done till today should be done / available to be done in a week, GC: 2 weeks)
all reliable virologists, epidemiologists and mathematics involved (eg, systemvirologists, system immunologists) say the same. whether this will be applied by the politics, is another issue.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

So to be clear, easing the lock down to try and repair the economy would be a political decision?

Going all in on the lock down with some little sketchy data because of media pressure wasn't a political decision then, it was a scientific decision?

Thank god we have the money tree to dig us out of the coming recession.
Sorry not money tree we have dressed it up a bit, we will sell government bonds!
One small question, to who and at what rate?
All countries are going to be struggling and all are going to be punting out government bonds.
Sorry to bring a breath of reality into the theories

[finchy]

https://youtu.be/UaTYYk3HxOc

Please watch

[waz-24-7]

Without doubt the pay back on the economic cost will be long and hard.
The UK government are borrowing unprecedented level of money to ensure the country and its economy comes out the other side.
Expect significant tax rises in due course. Indeed government bonds will be printed in mass

[IPMAN]

I tend to agree with KC also.

For goodness sake let’s stop this now