New Cliffside walk in Lapta

[Rambling Rose]

Some children sometimes behave badly, so do dogs, cyclists and quite often apparently normal sane adults behave very badly! Should those who dont of be banned from enjoying facilities because of those who do! Particularly if they have contributed financially to the provision facility or have a democratic right to decisions about it. See last para of my previous post.

Children and dogs can be a nuisance , even a danger, to and from others, and each other , and therefore may need to be gently restrained or disciplined in public places. If they are not, do not blame the child or dog - blame the responsible adult, but check they werent under disadvantage - like caring for a dog whose behaviour was a result of previous ill treatment. . I do not respect people who think because they have contributed to the overpopulation of this planet through a process even the lower animals can master, they have a right not only to spoil their offspring and their offsprings offspring to the extent they annoy others, and use them to take precedence over the rights of others

As for having once been a child myself I was born before the Nanny society wrapped children in cotton wool and left them illprepared for the real world.
I was lucky my first playground was a farmyard next door where I learned to respect animals and that to tease them was dangerous. Less lucky was a move which made the playground an old bomb site, where I learned the World was dangerous . I was never allowed to run around screaming and knocking over the old and infirm or shout and blaspheme windows.

As for obeying authority. Do me the courtesy of reading my last para.

AS for "wet messy poop" if my dog produces this , it is either ill or has eaten something bad (just like a human) and I dont take it out, nor would most dog owners particularly if it means putting it in their car!!!!!! If it happens by accident on a walk (which probably means some stupid human has left decaying food semi wrapped in polythene lying around) I suggest the exercise of a little sympathy - and perhaps some sand. The stray dogs who are probably responsible and cant be fussy about what they eat havent been taught to read.

The ground, even under concrete, has a lot of nasy things on it - soil contains germs, rat and mice excreta and urine are very dangerous , wild and ferral animals access public paths , people leave broken glass and syringes and worse. Should a layer of sterile polythene be laid down|

I feel sorry for peole who want to live in an artificial world, and are so blinkered they cant even accept that the wishes and rights of those who dont have any validity.

PS If anyone is seriously thinking of taking a horse down there, please let me know and I will bring a bucket and spade for the benefit of my roses.

[Marions]

I do agree with Rambling rose. It does seem a terrible shame that the walkway is for................who exactly? Nicely behaved adults, and maybe osme children. I loved the freedom of my childhood in London, and even walking along the Thames embankment with my family and dog, and going to Battersea Park and whatever other parks I lived nearby and taking my dog. My brother used to take his dog to the local park and meet other dog owners - it was quite a social circle. Family pets were rarely banned. As for stretching the thing to tlak of camels, horses, etc etc - that is rather extreme. We are talking here of a wlakway for people, and dogs are part of people's family. they are companions and more. As to the walkway, why can't they allow dogs and bikes (on one side) and a sign to say 'Irresponsible dog owners will be prosecuted'. .and give us a chance.
Where can one walk dogs - poison everywhere, not on turtle beaches, not on people beaches, not on pavements - but it is O.K. for street dogs to go in packs, frighten walkers and nothing done to sotp them.

Oh dear, north Cyprus is becoming a nanny state. Any ideas where I can go to find the freedom of myu childhood! (be careful how you answer that, please.)

But to be serious, it does mean that the use of the walkway is limited to a small number of people. Is that why it was built? Or maybe I should ask Fuat Namsoy that one.

[cyprusishome]

Doubt you will see many children walking, too busy on their computer games, in chat rooms etc.

[Rambling Rose]

Good point CiH. The whole object of a facility like this should surely be for all types of people to enjoy doing their thing. One of the things I like about the one place I can still walk my dogs is this happens. One end kids (Cypriot) playing on their bikes safely off road,other end Dads or elder brothers teaching young children how to fly kites. Dogs walking in between. and yes one day I saw a horse being ridden there! THAT did set the dogs off, which upset me because I love horses, but the dogs just dont get the chance to get accustomed as I cant ride these days.

And it is GOOD for children to meet dogs and make friends, preferably have one of their own. Teaches them responsibility and caring, Dogs on leads or with the lead swinging in the owners hand ready to be clipped on if necessary, are usually "safe" in that they will have been vaccinated, wormed and treated for parasites. Enlightened mainland Turks have even asked if their children can sroke my dogs to help them overcome their fear of dogs.

What a dog owner does NOT want to meet is unruly undisciplined children who tease the dog and shoud and scream. For their own sakes they should be taught not to.

[Rambling Rose]

Marion: It certainly does not seem to comply with European Union equality legislation. and is unfair to those who have contributed financially , whether TRNC taxpayers, Lapta "ratepayers" or EU citizens and are effectively banned from.

I have just checked my memory:

The UK National Trust "Welcomes" dogs in the grounds of their rural properties provided they are under control and on leads near lifestock. Doesnt mention pooper scoopers but I know they have rubbish bins, and also make provision for the disabled. As an ex member of the NT I have always followed these rules with my dogs in public places.

The UK coastal path also permits dogs under similar provisions to the above.

Should be good enough for anyone surely. Surely the TRNC should not be less restrictive than the UK

[mercenaryali]

Ozonkoy Boy, Dandelite and Blue Butterfly appear to have understood the issue.

Irrespective as to your view, opinion or wishes the competent authority has decided that not permitting the walking of dogs
or riding of bicycles will BEST serve the vast majority of walkers, both adult and children.

The opinions regarding noisy or badly behaved children are somewhat churlish, to say the least.

As to the walk itself, quite clearly the official signs indicate NO DOGS so what I fail to comprehend is . . .

WHAT DO SOME OF YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT - NO DOGS?

For those of you who continually ramble on about the EU, or rights of the taxpayer or some other drivel;

You are the weakest link - Goodbye!

[cyprusishome]

After all of this discussion I expect to see you all on the walk way, with or without dogs, bicycles, children etc. It is a great initiative from the local authorities and when it is finished it will be superb. Added to that is the similar walkway planned around Girne which hopefully we will enjoy soon.

Personal view, this thread has served more than its purpose of introducing the walkway to all on the forum.

[Jonnie]

Nice first post Mercenaryali.

What you clearly do not understand is the right of people to discuss matters they do not agree with. Such discussions have, throughout history, marked democracy.

I have not at any point advocated the breaking of rules however I reserve the right to question freely the rules as many of us do.

[mercenaryali]

Jonnie

As someone who believes strongly in true democracy I do not disagree with your views.

It is the "meaningless waffling" about nonsense which has nothing whatsoever to do with the original post that
I find difficult to digest.

Whichever way you "cut the cake" rules in a democracy are in place to ensure that the rule of law and order
is maintained.

On a balance of probabilities; as Dandelite states; dog "sh*t" is not nice and the authority has decided that dogs may not be
properly controlled and as we have seen many times all over the world, some and I repeat some dog owners
carefully "look the other way" whilst their best pal makes a nasty mess all over the place.

Discuss all you like however the bottom line is - DOGS are NOT ALLOWED so please folks, respect that and
keep your dog[s] at home because if I see you walking your dog on the walk I WILL take your picture and post it for
ALL to see LOL

[dandelite]

Keeping this pleasant, let's stop and consider this discussion.

Whether or not you agree with rules, which no doubt have been carefully considered prior to their implementation, rules are rules.

Whilst I sympathise with our friendly and considerate dog owners, being one myself here in TRNC we should all be agreed that
dogs make a mess, some of which is conveniently left behind by their inconsiderate owners.

TRNC comprises 3,355 square kilometres so I am certain our dog owners will be able to find another nice area in which
to walk their "best friend" in peace and tranquility where there are no restrictions or rules which would restrict them from
doing so.

I would prefer my new baby granddaughter not to be stepping in "dog mess" whilst toddling along the new Lapta Walkway whilst
risking being knocked over by an irresponsible bicycle rider.

When I drive down a road with a 30 kph sign, the reason I do not drive at 50 kph is twofold; one, because I am a responsible driver and two,
because the sign clearly indicates a 30 kph speed limit and if the cops catch me I will be in deep sh*t LOL

Come on people let us all enjoy what we have, walk in peace and be sensible, you know it makes sense!

Have a nice walk day !

[Rambling Rose]

Oh very well said Jonnie.

I would also like to know who is the "competent" authority in this case?

Posts 56 and 58 are offensive, and not contributing to discusson.

At the end of the day this is not about dogs (although unfortunately some people seem to be unable to resist the opportunity to atack them ), or chldren, dogs or cyclists, or even the disabled . It is about the path and its purpose and very usefully has brought to light that the path is restricted to a secton of the community, and has become about justice and equality. I am glad of it because it has at least saved me a wasted journey.

Sorry CiH it may well a great initiative, but if it is only implemented for the benefit of a section of the potential users, the initiative is wasted. Even if I could find and access it (which at the moment I doubt) I shall not be using it with or without dogs or anything else except possibly a bodyguard because some of the people on this thread are (literally) giving me nightmares and I dont want to risk meeting them. CiH I exclude you and one or two others, because your views, even if they diverge mine, are genuine and politely and reasonably expressed.

I can only hope and pray that lessons will be learned wiser and more democratic counsels prevail befoe the Girne path is put into use.

Marion: I am sure it has occurred to you, but more info about these paths, and particularly the EU involvement would be in the public interest? An article?

[Marions]

RR I agree that maybe an interesting article could be wwritten, not jusst by me, but by any of the media outlets. and sorr, you will NOT see me on the walkway, because I cannot ssee any value in takingmy car all that distance to do a solo walk without those i lov e, whether two legs or four, for as RR HAS POINTED OUTA in U.K one may take dogs in plenty of places. (including I might say when I lived in Green Belt countrysidein kent with loads and loads of pathways which allowed for people, dogs, and horses! )
One has to wonder the value of such an expense for a very small section of the population, . I shall certainly try and find out why this is, when in many other more developed countries dogs are allowed (of course under proper control and with responsible owners) .
But I would answer the fact about suitable walks for dogs, as I mentioned earlier there are so many many places that are NOT safe because of the increasing number of so-called safe places where dogs have been poisoned.
another aspect that causes me concern is that many of the Lapta Festival activities will be alogn this wlakway so I cannot go, PLUS one thing that makes me very sad is that Baris Park in Town which I used to visit often, I NEVER attend now because it is another 'no dogs' and 'no bicycles' - so families with kids on bikes (small ones) with dog in tow, cannot go in there.
But I know that we cannot all agree, but it is a question of rights more than dogs, and it is very disappointing. People DO take dogs for walks, not to do toilet,s but to give them exercise - it somehow seems assumed by some people that dogs are taken for walks for toilet purposes. Mine, in the main, does hers in the backgarden where she is sent!
sorry to have rambled on a bit here but maybe it is because we have reached a stage of life where more and more is denied - no more Hash harriers, no more Orchid Walks, no more Football, no more Tennis, etc, etc for my husband due to lack of mob ility and he cannot walk over rough terrain - so where can HE walk with me and dog? Yea, O.K. enough said. I am a believer in keeping the rules, but just sometimes rules need to be changed in the interest of the majority. Utilitarian ethics, I think they call it.

[mercenaryali]

In reply to Rambling Rose; the competent authority is clearly the
Lapta Belediyesi who have kindly provided us with this marvelous
facility.

Perhaps I may refer to the originator of this post, Ozonkoyboy,
who rightly brought to our attention the fact that many dog owners
were flaunting the clearly marked regulations regarding the
banning of dogs on this walk resulting a "load of sh*t" being
deposited on the walkway by DOGS.

This post is about DOG SH*T not justice nor equality. Neither justice
nor equality apply to dogs.

I am certain all disabled persons are welcome to the use this wonderful
facility providing they are not riding a bike with a dog in tow.

Quite why you find posts 56 and 58 offensive is way beyond my
comprehension, we do live in a democracy, as I am reminded from
time to time LOL, and I do not believe I was either rude nor offensive
but then I guess that is subjective.

Bottom line is - the sign in red with a diagonal line through a circle
with a red dog inside means - NO DOGS ALLOWED; live with it!

Have a nice ramblin day.

[dandelite]

Come on Marions, Baris Park is a children's recreation park; the banning of bicycles and dogs is perfectly logical.

[Jonnie]

RR not sure exactly what in my post was offensive? Please explain.

Mercenaryali, I find it amusing you joined the thread and perhaps even this board to post when you state................ "the "meaningless waffling" about nonsense which has nothing whatsoever to do with the original post that I find difficult to digest".

Edited for the sake of clarity. PMSL

[Marions]

Neither justice nor equality apply to dogs.

Oh dear, Mercenaryali. Have we ever met, you and I, because if we had, I might discover that we are at opposite ends of the justice and equality thought for dogs. Haven't you heard of animal rights? Haven't yo heard of the world wide capaigns for 'justice and equality' for all animals. a guy called peter Singer has written books on animal rights in an effort to get humans to realise that all creatures have rights. and don't forget many of those animals were here before humans. Look at the case for the turtles!!!!

So, you are barking up the wrong tree in your statement. Part of of the current cry for justice for dogs is for the punishment which is already on the law books to be carried out when anyone injures or harms a dog (or any other animal on this island) in any way.

You might find it interesting to investigate animal rights, particularly as we humans are 'stewards' of this planet and everything that is on it.

as to Baris Park, I am SOOOOOO sorry that it is now a children's recreation centre, bvecause before it was a public park. If I had my children here I would have hoped to do the same as I used to do in all the London parks and country recreation grounds, namely to take my children, my dog(3) AND FOR THE CHILDREN TO HAVE THEIR TRICYCLES OR ANy other thing on wheels. I learned to ride mine in the local park because it was too dangerous on the roads. So, really I am just sorry that Baris Park is NOT FAMILY PARK.

As to the Walkway, yes it is Lapta belediye and they are doing a grand job now with Lapta in terms of facilities and festivals and fun. But why can't they change (and ye,s I will ask them) to havwe notices to say 'all dogs must be on a lead' 'offenders will be prosecuted' 'poop scooping is a must' etc, etc so that people know what the limitations are - just as applies in many, many other countrries world wide. (oh and a bicycle track!)

[Zebedee]

RR
One has to wonder the value of such an expense for a very small section of the population, . I shall certainly try and find out why this is, when in many other more developed countries dogs are allowed (of course under proper control and with responsible owners) .

another aspect that causes me concern is that many of the Lapta Festival activities will be alogn this wlakway so I cannot go, PLUS one thing that makes me very sad is that Baris Park in Town which I used to visit often, I NEVER attend now because it is another 'no dogs' and 'no bicycles' - so families with kids on bikes (small ones) with dog in tow, cannot go in there.

Yea, O.K. enough said. I am a believer in keeping the rules, but just sometimes rules need to be changed in the interest of the majority. Utilitarian ethics, I think they call it.

Marion,
Firstly,where do you get your figures from to substantiate your claim that dog owners are the majority of the population?

Secondly, You can go to the Lapta Festival activities, just leave the dog in the car (with window open for ventilation ) or at home.

Thirdly, the walk has been created FOR THE MAJORITY of the population, as a dog free zone.

There are enough dogs, many on a lead accompanied by their owners, leaving their deposits for everyone to step in. I have not seen any owners with a poop scooper.....
Thank goodness the walkway won`t or shouldn`t be littered by such excrement.

[Marions]

My 'statistics' are merely quoting what someone else said. No bikes, no dogs, so that rules out families who may well have both, leaving the 'freedom' of the every day use of the walkway to those prepared to leave kids bikes, family dogs etc at home. (except of course when it is a cycle tour in the municipality and organised by them, the 'walkway' gets used for it). Leaving my dog in the car is hardly giving it a walk!

I appreciate it is all to do with choices, but it seems seems slightly unfair that this walkly (and another to be built in Girne) means that locals who are oddities such as myself with dogs, and possibly kids with bikes that you are taking away the rights of enjoyment of the many who arenot prepared to leave their dogs in a car, or make the kids leave their bikes at home to walk along the beachside especially as they contribute to the very municipality which is banning them .

Mind you, I did first encounter this in Aberyswyth thirty years aog. The pier had fallen, for the most part into the sea and the remainder was turned into an amusment arcad,e presumably for holiday makers as much as locals. A big sign was at the door 'no pushchairs, dogs or icecreams'. It might come as no surprise if I say that virtually no holiday makers went in there, as they had kids in pushchairs, plus dogs and ice creams as part of their holiday in the local caravan park.

I do strongly feel in the interests of all that some compromises could be made here so that those living here (especially from other lands where such stringent rules do NOT apply) can enjoy facilities provided for pleasure.

If (and I appreciate there may not be) there are others who feel as I do, then do tell me, as I will happily talk to the Mayor, but realise if I am the odd one out, then naturally he would not even want to have his time wasted by one moaning minnie. But if others feel as I do, and would like to see some compromise, then I will take a Turkish speaking friend to talk to the Mayor.

But in conclusion may I said that I am more offended in the principle behind this than the reality. i do not NEED to go and walk there, but for many who live far nearer to the place, they might feel they do and should be able to (with dogs, kids on bikes etc, etc)

[mercenaryali]

Jonnie, I am so happy that I have amused you. At least I have made somebody happy LOL

Perhaps you should revisit your post however, as what you have written actually makes no sense whatsoever.

What I actually wrote was "It is the "meaningless waffling" about nonsense which has nothing whatsoever to do with the original post that
I find difficult to digest.

Zebedee has hit the nail right on the head.

People without dogs are in all probability the vast majority.

And reverting to the original post by Ozonkoyboy, it is quite simple - he is appalled by the number of dog owners
who are flouting the rules by walking their dogs on the walkway, often off lead resulting in DOG SH*T being left
behind by their irresponsible owners; even if they are a minority.

Come on folks, people are welcome to use this wonderful new clean facility, obey the rules, leave your dog at home
and stop mithering about it.

I hope to see some of you on the walk very soon, all smiling and thoroughly enjoying the walk, the views and the fresh air, free
from DOG SH*T and bicycles.

PS - I will be armed with my camera LOL

[Jonnie]

Talk to the Mayor Marion please. I suggest the sensible thing would be to propose a hefty fine for those not clearing up after their dogs. I feel that would be a good compromise.

It would be interested to see this contested in court as an Advocate friend of mine says it is actually fairly unenforcible.

However as stated previously whilst the rule in in force I will not take my dog down there.

As a contrast did the mayor of Girne not recently propose feeding stations for the strays that hang around the cafes and bars near the high street in Girne? Seems the centre of Girne is a bit more dog friendly!

[Jonnie]

Mercenaryali, if you are struggling with comprehension you should look closer to home as I copied and pasted what you had said?

[mercenaryali]

Yes Jonnie you certainly did copy and paste however you pasted it directly after your own words, without any punctuation,
rendering the whole sentence totally meaningless

Have a nice walk today, hope to see you all there!

[BADGER]

Having followed this topic from afar[UK]-I find myself saddened but thankful that we decided not to come to live in the TRNC.Since we only visit I will leave it at that before somebody posts that it's none of my business[or my dogs].

[iancrumpy]

Close by the house, here in Lefkoşa, we have a very pleasant park, called Kumsal Parkı, that follows the route of the old railway line for about 600 metres. The walking path part of it is only 2, perhaps 2.5, metres wide. Every morning, particularly in the summer, you can see up to about 30 people at any one time, taking their daily exercise. In any case, here there is a no-bicycle policy and (non-stray)-dogs-must-be-on-lead rule, which sounds about right to me.

Marion, with regards to the bike rule, I'm aware that little children riding bicyles/tricycles are probably not going to hurt anyone in the event of an accident, but at which point (ie. size of bike or child) would it be considered dangerous - a blanket ban would be easier to enforce.

Clearly though, there are many on both sides of the fence who feel strongly about this. Marion has even considered approaching Lapta Belediyesi about the matter. To enable Marion and others to get a better idea of the feelings on this wouldn't it make sense to have a forum poll with, say, the following two questions:
- Do you agree with the local municipality decision to ban (non-stray) dogs from the Lapta coastal walkway
- Do you feel that bicyclists should also be prohibitted from using the walkway

[woodspeckie]

Marions. No matter how many signs are put up saying dogs must be on a lead and asking people to scoop up the dog poo you will always get the people who ignore these signs, on a woodland walk in Wales last summer there were a number of these notices along the walk, a big dog came running free and jumped up at a little girl knocking her to the floor, when her parents approached the dog owner his answer to them was "If I have to have my dog on a lead then I suggest you put your child on one" that was besides a lot of abuse.

[Jonnie]

I think the whole disease passing on to humans has to be taken into context. Illnesses can just as likely be contracted from cat and fox faeces. Given the amount of stray cats around here if you have a garden it is quite likely you will have at least some cat poo in there, I know the cats round here are always digging in the soil in my garden. A led dog in a public area is also quite likely to be wormed which you cannot say for the feral ones.

Now bearing in mind there are loads of feral dogs in Girne what harm would it do to allow responsible dog owners to use a walkway and as mentioned before clean up or face a hefty fine.

[Hippocampus]

Dogs on leads only and a notice for fines for not clearing up would be a fair compromise. Most people in the UK do comply with this now, particularly where there are bins, which there are on the new walkway. Naturally there will always be the odd s** who won't bother. Just as there will be plenty of s**s in the summer who will festoon the walk with broken glass, fag butts and other non biodegradable debris. I can see this becoming far more of a problem than a couple of poos, which disappear within a couple of days anyway, particularly as there is a fence between the walkway and the cliffs all the way along, so the rubbish cannot be easily cleared up. Also half of it will end up nestling between the rocks and inaccessible to any cleaner.

So I say, allow dog walkers and cyclists, and ban kids with sweet wrappers, people with polythene bags, smokers, ice-cream buyers, anyone carrying a drink whether in a can or bottle......etc.

[Rambling Rose]

Hippo: Well said! I was appalled that one of the posters appears to be proposing to teach a baby to walk on a public pathway, and is becoming hysterical about deposits left by dogs that have been treated to avoid transmitting diseases, while most of the deposits are from strays that may well be dangerous. In additon to the items you have listed in the country there are vermin and their deposits snakes, poisonous insects (probaby just a bad sting to an adult or older child, but dangerous for a baby, and , incidentally dogs, and not easy to spot), and above all POISON left for vermin which is often picked up by dogs, and as we all fear may one day by a child. I hope for the sake of the baby that poster will get real. To avoid doubt, my earlier comments re children, were on the assumption that references were to older children, mature enough to have physically developed resistance and mentally to learn to assess and handle risk. and be taught respect for others.

Marion: Thank you for your intelligent , informed and sensible posts. I will emailed you re support.

For the rest I hope you enjoy your walk, and the nicer ones will spare a thought for me, now virtually a prisoner in my own home, something I left England to avoid, (but the worst aspects of England seem to have followed me) trying to provide exercise for three good natured and well behaved rescue dogs in the back garden, because there is no longer anywhere else they and I are safe, and not entirely even there.

[Jonnie]

I must say when you can take your dog on Oxford Street, National Rail and the London Underground without this anti-dog hysteria it does throw things into perspective a little.

[Bond.JamesBond]

I think after 79 replies this thread has been done to death.


As this thread has run it`s course and is rapidly turning into a slanging match i have closed this thread, unless Soner decides to Re-open.

[Soner]

See new thread with poll: http://www.kibkomnorthcyprusforum.com/v ... f=8&t=6034

I think all that needed to be said has been posted on this thread. No need to repeat your views on the new thread.