Brits behaving badly

[Rambling Rose]

I have been told that as a recent of recent investigations into misuse of electricity , it has been discovered that a number of expats (some Russians apparently but mainly Brits) have been by-passing their meters to obtain free electricity. Seven British culprits have been discovered in one village alone.I dont know the identity of the culprits, nor what action is being taken against individuals.

Whatever people think about the way electricity is distributed here or individual problems they may have experienced, this is no way to dealwith it - two wrongs do not make a right and this is not just a wrong but a crime. It is not the Government, nor Kibtek, nor the unions who will suffer, but individual users who will have to pay for the electricity stolen by others, and suffer from the increasing distrust of the British by the local community.

At the risk of sounding like the oldest inhabitant mumbling over her beer about past glories, when I came here (and is was ONLY l6 years ago) Brits liked and supported the country, warts and all, and were liked and respected in return. Now there is increasing distrust as the numbers of people who come here because they think they can break or bend the law with impunity, or at least get away with unethical behaviour because of a less sophisticed legal sysem and fewer safeguards than the UK, increase. I for one am getting heartily sick of it and worried about the repercussions.

What piece of woodwork are these people creeping out from and how do they get past the Police checks on applying for permits?

Does anyone else feel that the time has come when the majority of honest and law-abiding (if sometimes moaning!) Brits should send a clear message both to the Cypriots and to the culprits that this type of behaviour by the minotiry is not typical of British expatriates and not tolerated by them - and how?

[Marions]

Very valid comments, RR. Suggest you write to Eroglu stating how you feel about fellow Brits. If Denktash were alive, he would have listened. I don't think for a moment that the government would do anything much about it, but it might help them to know that some of the Brits were concerned about the upholding of the rules and regs of their adopted country.

What do others think?

[Rambling Rose]

I dont think one person writing would have any effect, Marion. That is why I am trying to find out how others feel about the situation. We are all vulnerable and a lot of us are committed to the country - it is in our interests as well as in some cases inclination to maintain a good reputation. ;And ıt ıs much more effective to complain if things do go wrong if one can maintain the moral high ground! Additionally one has some degree of loyalty to ones native land - I am also pretty fed up with feeling ashamed of my countrymen and feeiing I have to apologise for them.

I should also be noted that some of these undesirables also target fellow Brits - as I have learned twice to my cost.

No disrespect to those who have the unenviable task of following in his footsteps, but Ralf Denktaş is sadly missed. He was a good friend to the British - even if by his own admisson he felt it in the interests of the TRNC to be so. He used to say that we were all ambassadors for the TRNC to our native countries - people have fogotten that and the corollary - that we are also representatives of Britain here.

[Sandman]

I arrived in Cyprus in 1969 before any tourism and what a nice place it was - apart from Makarious and the Eoka leftovers.
I came back to Limassol in '92 to find the place totally spoilt by tourism so thereafter we holidayed in Kyrenia which was still relatively unspoilt.
That was until Brits started to buy property and since then it has been in steady decline.
It's still lovely for a holiday - but to live ????

[flowerfairy]

Oh dear, Sandman.
This is precisely the reason why I didn't buy a newspaper because the only news printed was bad news.
North Cyprus is still a wonderful place to live, if you carefully choose your friends, and don't (dare I say it again)
leave your brains on the plane.
As RR has mentioned, Brits and Russians have been found stealing electricity, shame on them. How many of us pay up and shut up?
No apologies, for every bad thing someone mentions, I will always find a good thing, many, in fact.
Have a nice day,

[Deniz1]

I knew many people in UK who rigged their meters they thought they were very clever. So they come here and carry on stealing. Shame on them. In the end we all pay as the costs go up.

[kevnmax]

perhaps these Brits should be well behaved like the local Turkish builders , maybe it's a case of ,if you can't beat them join them

[belle]

I think this does happen a lot in TRNC but not just by the brits, I think the cyps are the worst offenders.

[cyprusishome]

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Why is it that when you ask around the world what hotel, bar and restaurant owners hate it is "Brits on Tour"! Yes they will rip you off but that is because a minority are rude, obnoxious and totally distasteful. On the costas, Greece, Turkey and wherever hotels will take Brits in and tolerate a finite amount of foul behaviour because they are in turn taking lots of pound notes off you.

I detest our builder but I will not use that as an excuse to upset the 99% of TC who have made us welcome here.

[sophie]

Just to clarify something in my own mind before making any further comment, other than to say it's obviously a criminal act and possible dangerous as well:- are we talking Brits or are we talking Anglo Cyps. This is how a very nice lady I recently met describes herself.

[ozonkoyboy]

Being in the Electrical industry for over 40 years I have seen quite a few ways of trying to obtain free electric, the fundamental reason why people get caught is. To bypass a meter with a link of wire leaves a scorch mark, but the way most people get caught, is that all of a sudden the usage drops dramatically, this then stands out like a sore thumb, the board will send someone to investigate if there may be a problem with the meter, as as we all have the meters on the outside of the house, so you would not know they had been till it was to late

[MoBry]

I don't think it's appropriate to make generalisations about Cypriots being the worst offenders when it comes to nicking electricity, not unless there is proof positive and not just prejudice. We have lived here for a year and found North Cyprus a lovely place, even if there are people who transgress. We've met great, helpful people, both British and Turkish Cypriots, we avoid the negative and enjoy the positive. It's all in your outlook. If you look for the worst, you'll find the worst. If you look for the best, you'll find the best. Regardless of some of the challenges, which we choose to laugh at, we have never regretted leaving Australia.

[ozonkoyboy]

MoBry
Well said negativity breeds negativity, we are after all visitors in their country, and yes we pay for the privilege, but you would pay anywhere in the world even the UK, nothing is different, there will always be good and bad people in any country you visit or live in
People should enjoy this beautiful part of the world as I am sure countless do I know all our friends that live or have homes here agree, and if some people don't like the way things are, they can be positive and move to somewhere else

No dought this will invoke some replies, lets hope they are not negative

[kaiserphil]

Have I missed something? What is the source of this information?

[mercenaryali]

Well perhaps we should return to the "old ways" - get caught stealing [and yes this is stealing] have your left hand chopped off; get caught stealing a second time and oooops off comes the right hand - if you are stupid enough to continue stealing, with no hands I have no doubt you should be deported to Australia

[Rambling Rose]

"an unpleasant rash of bars and cafes - all the deformities and amenities associated with our larger suburbs at home - an agricultural island being urbanized too quickly , before its inhabitants had really decided what was worth preserving about their habits and surroundings"

Sounds about right? Well that was Lawrence Durrell ("Bitter Lemons") writing in l957! Actually when you bear in mind that the Turkish Cypriot community and economy was virtually frozen between the late 50's (when the Greeks denied them the partnership which was intended in the Constitution of the Republic of Cyprus) and reinforced in l974( when the World's response to Turkey's rescuing them from genocide was to impose embargos) until the l990s (when an offspin of the Annan plan was that Brits discovered that here was a cheap place in the sun ripe for despoiling) it is simply a case of Northern Cyprus catching up with the rest of the Island!

However this is all off topic. What I asked was whether anyone else had noticed that there was an increase in unethical and even downright criminal behaviour among the British expatriate community (of which the by passing of electricty meters was just one exampel) and that this was souring relations between the Brits and locals, and likely to endanger the position of British expats. The fact is that traditionally there was very little crime among the Turkish Cypriot community (OK there was pehaps less temptation!) and I have known Cypriots bemoan the fact that they can no longer leave their houses unlocked. They have been inclined to blame the increasing crime figures on mainland Turks, but there seems to me to be evidence of increasing distrust of the British, and whereas the mainlanders are to a degree protected by Turkey's support of the TRNC , the British have no such resource - quite the reverse in fact, it has always surprised me how pro Brit the TCs are considering the record of the British Government.

[Rambling Rose]

Just to clarify something in my own mind before making any further comment, other than to say it's obviously a criminal act and possible dangerous as well:- are we talking Brits or are we talking Anglo Cyps. This is how a very nice lady I recently met describes herself.

I dont know Sophie: I wasnt given details or names and did not ask for them - I dont want to sound a coward but I preferred not to know as there are some unpleasant types out there and I have enough problems without asking for more, particularly since it would have served no useful purpose as Kibtek already had the identities.

However I assume they are home grown Brits. and are expatriates rather than returnees (if that is a word!) - certainly the majority would be - as that was what the discusson was about and also most British Cypriots would surely have TRNC nationalitiy which they would use here, and Cypriot names.

[Jaybee]

Unfortunately there is good and bad in every country you go to.I agree that if caught stealing in any country(whether electricity,or just plain robbery)then be prepared to face the conciquences of the country involved.The statistic of criminal activity over here is I believe very little "Brits" activity and more mainlander exsploiting the new "rich" pickings from the new influx of foriegners(What ever the nationality)but no lets blame the brits seems to be the order of the day by some people,Would be interesting to know the actual statistic percentage wise.

[kaiserphil]

Still don't know the source of the information?

[Rambling Rose]

[quote="Jaybee"]Unfortunately there is good and bad in every country

True, of course, but the point I am trying to make is that as expats from a country whose Government Turkish Cypriots have no reason to like or respect, we are vulnerable and the behaviour of the bad apples , whether or not strictly in accordance with the law, is likely to have a bad effect on community relations and the lifestyle, ability to achieve equal treatment and even existence of the law abiding majority. The British expatriates used to be liked and respected, now tolerance of them is wearing very thin and claiming that we bring income and spent a little of our spare time on charities is not enough - we need to demonstrate we are responsible members of the community and do not approve of bad and irresponsible - let alone illegal - behaviour. The statistic I would like to see is the degree of criminal activity - relative to the size of the British community - pre and post l994.

The mainland Turks are responsible for some criminal behaviour and a lot of Cypriots resent them. However the majority of them (I do in fact know some honest, well educated , intelligent mainland Turks who make a great contribution to their adopted country) come from the lowest socio economic group, and probably dont even have houses with electricity, let alone the sophistication to by pass meters! It is understandable, if not an excuse, that they see Brits who flaunt their apparent wealth on trivialities as fair game.
I do wonder where some of the Brits who see the unusual political situation and less sophisticated legal system as an excuse to pray on the vulnerable and or flaunt the regulations come from.

[karmels]

Rambling Rose.

As asked earlier, what was your source for this information.
It has started a debate with no foundation, that is accusing expats of stealing electric.
There has been no mention of this in any of the local papers, although I may have missed it.
So could you please confirm you source with some sort of link. Hearsay is dangerous.

[Philoz]

Karmels ,whilst I understand fully your reason for requesting the source,I cannot possibly imagine that Rose would simply make a story up and post it on here.
She did not for example post and say 'I heard Fred Smith was stealing electricity'-which of course is libellous unless backed up by solid proof.
Her post was more general than that, and is from what I understand within forum boundaries.
She has absolutely nothing to gain from making posts pointing fingers,and yes it is hearsay, but hearsay is what we all use and deal with on a daily basis.
The chances are she heard it off her meter reader,and I can understand fully why she would not want to name her source as it then takes the form of a more serious allegation.
I find Rose one of the more intelligent posters on here,and whilst she has strong opinions on many matters,I always respect her opinion even if I don't always agree with them.
In conclusion, I think that if a poster makes a general comment about something they have heard 'On the street' is always interesting forum fodder to read as long as individuals are not being singled out unfairly.

[Rambling Rose]

Thanks Philoz both for putting it better than I could and for the compliment! To protect my meter reader I must say I have never met or spoken to him or her, but suggesting sources is not a good idea, as eventually they can be identified by process of elimination so no more please!

I started my first post "I have been told" -surely that was sufficient to indicate the information was annecdotal. I believe it to be reliable but readers are welcome to decide for themself whether I would pass on sheer "gossip" or whether I am making it up and if so ignore the thread - though I must say I wish they would credit with me with the intelligence to make up a better and more original story if for some unknown reason I found it necessary!

The reasons I dont intend to identify my source should be only too obvious to well meaning people. I think now I made a mistake in underestimating the prejudice of some and quoting this particular, relatively unimportant, incident - the fact is that it simply brought to the top of my head the problem of the effect undesireable Brits are having on the responsible element that had been worrying me for some time. There are in fact many other incidents in the public domain - various forums and the Press - too numerous to quote. . I made it very clear I did not know or seek to know the identify of the offenders again for obvious reasons - one of which was I did not wish to risk starting the type of witch hunt which so disgrace the British forums. However it seems there are those who seek any excuse to start one (though it is such a pity as it deters open debate and impedes free speech) and I therefore request the Mods to close the thread. It has probably run its course anyway although no one has actually replied to my question, that in itself is significant.

[karmels]

Philoz, R,R.

I will still stand by my post about hearsay, this is not fact albeit was from a meter reader.
I have known R.R. for a very long time and know that she has made a lot of valid comments involving the village.
The fact is this forum is read all over the world, these comments do not show the TRNC or the expats in a good light.
At the end of the day there is NO EVIDENCE only hearsay.

[Marions]

Would rather NOT close the thread RR. We normally do that only if something is getting out of control and might offend. In this case, there is no offence also others may wish to comment at some point, otherwise the thread will disappear off the page.

I am sure you are correct that some Brits are giving us a bad name, just as the LagerLouts in Agia napa gave the Brits a bad name. But I do know that nowhere and nothing evert stays the same. The land of my birth is not exaclty been static in terms of change! In fact I would be horrified if I were compelled to go and live where I grew up.
But I do believe that if anyone is truly concerned, then to inform someone in high places of your concern, might at least make them feel that they DO have support from many ex pats, although I am sure from covnersations I have had, that they indeed appreciate muchof what is done by ex pats (not everything said is 'hot air'.

But as we are not citizens, cannot vote and therefore cannot effect any changes, there is little we can do singly or corporately.

As osmeone said (and as y mother used to say ) There is good and bad in every race. I guess it is as one gets more of any particular race in any one place, then the bad is seen more sharply, and hopefully also is the good.

Do you REALLY want me to lock this thread???? It is doing no harm, and has produced some interesting thoughts and may produce more. Oh and when I live din Wale,s I know a Welshman who put an extension from thephone box into his own home. all his calls were free!

[Rambling Rose]

I wish people would have the courtesy to either read my posts or ignore them! And to realise I say what I mean. I said I had not spoken to the meter reader. I said the information was what I had been told and that I deliberately did not seek further evidence and why. I deliberatey did not name the village concerned. I have only once referred to the village where I live and on the occasion I was attacked and resigned as a result - I now wish I had stuck to that decision. I have frequently pointed that that snide comments and general moaning are read worldwide . It is not I who am damaging the reputation of the TRNC and it is those who misbehave who are damaging the reputation of the British community.

Marions: I did not ask for the thread to be deleted or removed - just closed - I am sure I have seen closed threads remain on the Board. Now I am confused? In fact all the comments. interesting or not , have been strictly off topic - no one has actually answered my question. You own comments in your latest post have already been addressed! And as you always say people can always start a new thread if they think an interesting line of thought needs following up.

Anyway it is academic as far as I am concerned. I resigned once before because I realised that someone had discovered my real identity and was using this forum to snipe at me. It appears it is happening again and I cannot therefore continue to post with any degree of confidence; and if I am to be badgered for information I have said I do not wish to give.. So much for freedom of speech..

[Soner]

I thought the thread was going well, but as RR had started it and wishes it to be closed, I will therefore respect her wishes.
This thread is now closed.