Donald Trump

[EnjoyingTheSun]

I’m sure everyone will want to join me in congratulating Donald Trump on his victory in the Presidential election

[wizardofmann]

I guess that has to be a no then.

Greenland > Gaza > > > > > > What next?

He may the president of the United of the USA > He may be intelligent > He may be a billionaire > He most certainly be the cause of World War 3!

[Brazen]

I’m sure everyone will want to join me in congratulating Donald Trump on his victory in the Presidential election

[Keithcaley]

“Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?”
A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem. For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed. So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.
Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever. I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman. But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.
Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers. And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.
There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface. Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront. Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul. And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist. Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that. He’s not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat. He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.
And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully. That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead. There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down.
So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think ‘Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:
• Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.
• You don’t need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.
This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss. After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of "ooops". His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum. God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid. He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump.
And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish: ‘My God… what… have… I… created?' If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.”
-Nate White

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Trump is undoubtedly a classless buffoon but I think Nate White’s words would be a lot more credible if he hadn’t been such a cheerleader for Joe Biden who as well as being pretty ineffectual throughout his presidency which we could put down to him being pretty shot away when he was elected had he not been completely ineffectual through his 50+ year political career. I could forgive that if he hadn’t been the most personally corrupt president in my lifetime and I have lived through LBJ, Nixon & Clinton so the bar is pretty high. Hunter’s laptop which despite the media onslaught isn’t a Russian misinformation campaign or conspiracy theory barely scratches the surface of the Biden family’s money grab.

[gates]

I think he is the only guy who has the guts to stand up and say what everyone else is scared to say. He sorted that silly clock out and put things back where they belong. Long may he rien

[EnjoyingTheSun]

I think when you put up with stuff that is patently wrong such as the identity politics and uncontrolled immigration as has taken place over the last ten years, ordinary people quite reasonably want it sorted out. That then gets them called fascists by the far left as is their default and now it seems as if the centre left want to join in on that. The problem with that tactic is if you let big problems build up and insult people who want solutions you tend to get people move to more extreme measures. Trump and Farage are further to the right than my taste but to call either fascist is ludicrous but it’s not inconceivable we could get fascism. Western people have no taste for Communism no matter how sneakily it is branded and I fear they may go further right than left.

[Brazen]

I think when you put up with stuff that is patently wrong such as the identity politics and uncontrolled immigration as has taken place over the last ten years, ordinary people quite reasonably want it sorted out. That then gets them called fascists by the far left as is their default and now it seems as if the centre left want to join in on that. The problem with that tactic is if you let big problems build up and insult people who want solutions you tend to get people move to more extreme measures. Trump and Farage are further to the right than my taste but to call either fascist is ludicrous but it’s not inconceivable we could get fascism. Western people have no taste for Communism no matter how sneakily it is branded and I fear they may go further right than left.

Trump appears to know what a woman is unlike most of our government who took the knee to a Marxist group.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Trump appears to know what a woman is unlike most of our government who took the knee to a Marxist group.

What amuses me is that people genuinely believe these Marxists give a stuff about gay people, trans people, black people, Palestinianians etc etc

Really good tweet on the whole trans thing by JK Rowling today;

This 'why do you care about a tiny fraction of the population?' line is, and always was, utterly ridiculous.

Gender ideology has undermined freedom of speech, scientific truth, gay rights, and women's and girls' safety, privacy and dignity. It's also caused irreparable physical damage to vulnerable kids.

Nobody voted for it, the vast majority of people disagree with it, yet it has been imposed, top down, by politicians, healthcare bodies, academia, sections of the media, celebrities and even the police. Its activists have threatened and enacted violence on those who've dared oppose it. People have been defamed and discriminated against for questioning it. Jobs have been lost and lives have been ruined, all for the crime of knowing that sex is real and matters.

When the smoke clears, it will be only too evident that this was never about a so-called vulnerable minority, notwithstanding the fact that some very vulnerable people have been harmed. The power dynamics underpinning our society have been reinforced, not dismantled. The loudest voices throughout this entire fiasco have been people insulated from consequences by their wealth and/or status. They aren't likely to find themselves locked in a prison cell with a 6'4" rapist who's decided his name's now Dolores. They don't need state-funded rape crisis centres, nor do they ever frequent high street changing rooms. They simper from talk show sofas about those nasty far-right bigots who don't want penises swinging around the girls' showers, secure in the knowledge that their private pool remains the safe place it always was.

Those who've benefited most from gender identity ideology are men, both trans-identified and not. Some have been rewarded for having a cross-dressing kink by access to all spaces previously reserved for women. Others have parlayed their delicious new victim status into an excuse to threaten, assault and harass women. Non-trans-identified leftybros have found a magnificent platform from which to display their own impeccably progressive credentials, by jeering and sneering at the needs of women and girls, all while patting themselves on the back for giving away rights that aren't theirs.

The actual victims in this mess have been women and children, especially the most vulnerable, gay people who've resisted the movement and paid a horrible price, and regular people working in environments where one misplaced pronoun could see you vilified or constructively dismissed. Do not tell me this is about a tiny minority. This movement has impacted society in disastrous ways, and if you had any sense, you'd be quietly deleting every trace of activist mantras, ad hominem attacks, false equivalence and circular arguments from your X feeds, because the day is fast approaching when you'll want to pretend you always saw through the craziness and never believed it for a second.

For me she sums up the far left in a sentence “ people insulated from consequences by their wealth and/or status”

[Brazen]

Trump appears to know what a woman is unlike most of our government who took the knee to a Marxist group.

What amuses me is that people genuinely believe these Marxists give a stuff about gay people, trans people, black people, Palestinianians etc etc

Really good tweet on the whole trans thing by JK Rowling today;

This 'why do you care about a tiny fraction of the population?' line is, and always was, utterly ridiculous.

Gender ideology has undermined freedom of speech, scientific truth, gay rights, and women's and girls' safety, privacy and dignity. It's also caused irreparable physical damage to vulnerable kids.

Nobody voted for it, the vast majority of people disagree with it, yet it has been imposed, top down, by politicians, healthcare bodies, academia, sections of the media, celebrities and even the police. Its activists have threatened and enacted violence on those who've dared oppose it. People have been defamed and discriminated against for questioning it. Jobs have been lost and lives have been ruined, all for the crime of knowing that sex is real and matters.

When the smoke clears, it will be only too evident that this was never about a so-called vulnerable minority, notwithstanding the fact that some very vulnerable people have been harmed. The power dynamics underpinning our society have been reinforced, not dismantled. The loudest voices throughout this entire fiasco have been people insulated from consequences by their wealth and/or status. They aren't likely to find themselves locked in a prison cell with a 6'4" rapist who's decided his name's now Dolores. They don't need state-funded rape crisis centres, nor do they ever frequent high street changing rooms. They simper from talk show sofas about those nasty far-right bigots who don't want penises swinging around the girls' showers, secure in the knowledge that their private pool remains the safe place it always was.

Those who've benefited most from gender identity ideology are men, both trans-identified and not. Some have been rewarded for having a cross-dressing kink by access to all spaces previously reserved for women. Others have parlayed their delicious new victim status into an excuse to threaten, assault and harass women. Non-trans-identified leftybros have found a magnificent platform from which to display their own impeccably progressive credentials, by jeering and sneering at the needs of women and girls, all while patting themselves on the back for giving away rights that aren't theirs.

The actual victims in this mess have been women and children, especially the most vulnerable, gay people who've resisted the movement and paid a horrible price, and regular people working in environments where one misplaced pronoun could see you vilified or constructively dismissed. Do not tell me this is about a tiny minority. This movement has impacted society in disastrous ways, and if you had any sense, you'd be quietly deleting every trace of activist mantras, ad hominem attacks, false equivalence and circular arguments from your X feeds, because the day is fast approaching when you'll want to pretend you always saw through the craziness and never believed it for a second.

For me she sums up the far left in a sentence “ people insulated from consequences by their wealth and/or status”

Absoflippinlutely!

[waz-24-7]

The world is a volatile and unsettled place today.
Western world politics is moving at pace further right with many right wing groups and parties capitalising on Mr trumps "America first " nationalistic ideology..
This follows the antics of a certain Mr Farage and his brexit big red bus slogans. Guiding the unsuspecting to follow his pipe tune to the ultra right wing.

Can Mr Trump carry forward his drastic onslaught against anything and anyone that's non American or Israeli. I think not.
He is certainly sending signals of warning and dread. He hopes some of his big black penned orders will install dread and fear amongst lesser nations and organisations.

Then of course the very small close but extremely wealthy entourage ,to trump, are also quite worrying as they smell opportunity and advantage.
Where will thy take the largest economy on the planet. They certainly have an ally and partner in Trump.

I fear slightly that the UK too is becoming even more right wing as Mr Farage now capitalises on the absolute failure of Brexit blaming everyone bar himself. He now continues his charge towards political premiership by hoodwinking yet again the more gullible.

Regardless,
It is clear that the current UK socialist government is totally out of touch with reality. The shock of Trumps landslide has left Starmer and co in a quandary. Do they cuddle up with the very right wing Trump administration and hope that the special relationship can bring some prosperity to the UK. OR does he continue with the grovelling to the EU to please reduce their anti UK trade protocol.
We are indeed between a rock and a hard place. God know our economy needs to get back to pre brexit prosperity

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Still just the one record then Waz. What does confuse me about the EU is we joined it in 1973 but our economy was even more buggered by 1979. Always wondered why things didn’t improve as we’d joined the promised land and actually got worse.

[Brazen]

The world is a volatile and unsettled place today.
Western world politics is moving at pace further right with many right wing groups and parties capitalising on Mr trumps "America first " nationalistic ideology..
This follows the antics of a certain Mr Farage and his brexit big red bus slogans. Guiding the unsuspecting to follow his pipe tune to the ultra right wing.

Can Mr Trump carry forward his drastic onslaught against anything and anyone that's non American or Israeli. I think not.
He is certainly sending signals of warning and dread. He hopes some of his big black penned orders will install dread and fear amongst lesser nations and organisations.

Then of course the very small close but extremely wealthy entourage ,to trump, are also quite worrying as they smell opportunity and advantage.
Where will thy take the largest economy on the planet. They certainly have an ally and partner in Trump.

I fear slightly that the UK too is becoming even more right wing as Mr Farage now capitalises on the absolute failure of Brexit blaming everyone bar himself. He now continues his charge towards political premiership by hoodwinking yet again the more gullible.

Regardless,
It is clear that the current UK socialist government is totally out of touch with reality. The shock of Trumps landslide has left Starmer and co in a quandary. Do they cuddle up with the very right wing Trump administration and hope that the special relationship can bring some prosperity to the UK. OR does he continue with the grovelling to the EU to please reduce their anti UK trade protocol.
We are indeed between a rock and a hard place. God know our economy needs to get back to pre brexit prosperity

The red brexit bus was nothing to do with Farage and UKIP it was vote leave and Cummings that thought that up.
Not sure whether you are aware, but the EU is a socialist construct.
Perhaps you can also tell me what “far right” actually is?

[waz-24-7]

The world is a volatile and unsettled place today.
Western world politics is moving at pace further right with many right wing groups and parties capitalising on Mr trumps "America first " nationalistic ideology..
This follows the antics of a certain Mr Farage and his brexit big red bus slogans. Guiding the unsuspecting to follow his pipe tune to the ultra right wing.

Can Mr Trump carry forward his drastic onslaught against anything and anyone that's non American or Israeli. I think not.
He is certainly sending signals of warning and dread. He hopes some of his big black penned orders will install dread and fear amongst lesser nations and organisations.

Then of course the very small close but extremely wealthy entourage ,to trump, are also quite worrying as they smell opportunity and advantage.
Where will thy take the largest economy on the planet. They certainly have an ally and partner in Trump.

I fear slightly that the UK too is becoming even more right wing as Mr Farage now capitalises on the absolute failure of Brexit blaming everyone bar himself. He now continues his charge towards political premiership by hoodwinking yet again the more gullible.

Regardless,
It is clear that the current UK socialist government is totally out of touch with reality. The shock of Trumps landslide has left Starmer and co in a quandary. Do they cuddle up with the very right wing Trump administration and hope that the special relationship can bring some prosperity to the UK. OR does he continue with the grovelling to the EU to please reduce their anti UK trade protocol.
We are indeed between a rock and a hard place. God know our economy needs to get back to pre brexit prosperity

The red brexit bus was nothing to do with Farage and UKIP it was vote leave and Cummings that thought that up.
Not sure whether you are aware, but the EU is a socialist construct.
Perhaps you can also tell me what “far right” actually is?

The widely known RED bus was certainly and influence on the Brexit vote and regardless of origins, was a vote winner for Mr Farage's brexit campaign.
The European Union as a political entity is not a critical consideration for me. The need to be within the single market economy and Customs Union is.

My loose definition of far right is: A faction that is very highly Nationalistic , xenophobic and intolerant of other nationalities, religions or creeds.

[Mowgli597]

Wikipedia:
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Opposed to anarchism, democracy, pluralism, egalitarianism, liberalism, socialism, and Marxism, fascism is at the far right of the traditional left–right spectrum.

I guess it’s up to everyone to decide themselves whether the cap fits in any particular case.

[waz-24-7]

Still just the one record then Waz. What does confuse me about the EU is we joined it in 1973 but our economy was even more buggered by 1979. Always wondered why things didn’t improve as we’d joined the promised land and actually got worse.

Oh dear,
1979... Oh dear...how things have changed. I guess you're still convincing yourself that leaving the single market economy and customs union has been a resounding success and the British public and the UK is better, stronger and a secure place to be.
What has materially changed for the UK. Loss , loss and yet more loss with, even now, very little prospect of Brexit driven prosperity.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

1979... Oh dear...how things have changed. I guess you're still convincing yourself that leaving the single market economy and customs union has been a resounding success and the British public and the UK is better, stronger and a secure place to be.
What has materially changed for the UK. Loss , loss and yet more loss with, even now, very little prospect of Brexit driven prosperity.

No I didn’t think I’d get an answer to my question. Same old record

[EnjoyingTheSun]

I guess it’s up to everyone to decide themselves whether the cap fits in any particular case.

The problem is as the Marxist creed insidiously seeps more into our daily lives then so does their habit of labelling anyone to the right of Marxism, fascist. This will include fellow Marxists they don’t like, all social democrats and people with zero interest in politics but who don’t enjoy life under Marxism.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Perhaps you can also tell me what “far right” actually is?

The amusing thing is by mentioning the far right he actually champions Brexit. The U.K. left and we have a socialist Government whereas many of the countries who have remained in the EU lurch further right daily.
So I guess logically the best thing for anyone living in the EU who is worried about the far right is to vote to leave the EU?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Wikipedia:
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Opposed to anarchism, democracy, pluralism, egalitarianism, liberalism, socialism, and Marxism, fascism is at the far right of the traditional left–right spectrum.

The interesting thing is that apart from the opposition to Marxism, Socialism and nationalism, this definition, which I don’t totally agree with, would easily fit any of the communist governments/dictatorships there have been. Marxism they obviously won’t oppose, socialism they pay lip service to and nationalism is discouraged because the party and the Marxist cult must take precedence over everything including patriotism and family. Apart from that the Soviet Union, China etc tick every box

[erol]

The problem is as the Marxist creed insidiously seeps more into our daily lives then so does their habit of labelling anyone to the right of Marxism, fascist. This will include fellow Marxists they don’t like, all social democrats and people with zero interest in politics but who don’t enjoy life under Marxism.

The problem is as fascist tendencies insidiously seep more into our daily lives then so does their habit of labelling anyone to the left of Mussolini, marxist. This will include fellow fascists they don’t like, all social democrats and people with zero interest in politics but who don’t enjoy life under fascism.


Thinking about, let alone discussing, if something is or isn't marxist or fascist or racist or anything is pointless. There is never anything of any value or interest in such binary ponderings and pontificating.

fascism does not exist. not as a binary. all that exists are individuals or groups or policies or things, each with varying degrees of fascism-ness. racism. marxism. whatever.

Thinking about, or discussing, degrees of marxism, fascism, racism or anything at least has a chance of interest or value. It is a valid start. Arguing that someone or something is or isn't -ist does not.

I do not usually vote. In my experience, who is or is not in power at any given moment in time really does not affect my life very much if at all. It does not affect my life any where near as much as how people around me behave towards me and each other. I think who my neighbour is has more impact on my life than who is in the white house or number 10. What is more I think that people who do vote, do so, to some degree or other as an alternative to worrying about how they behave to those around them. Those who vote like and collude in the myth that it matters but the evidence is lacking. How you behave to those around you has more impact on the world than who you vote for.

[Mowgli597]

I guess it’s up to everyone to decide themselves whether the cap fits in any particular case.

The problem is as the Marxist creed insidiously seeps more into our daily lives then so does their habit of labelling anyone to the right of Marxism, fascist. This will include fellow Marxists they don’t like, all social democrats and people with zero interest in politics but who don’t enjoy life under Marxism.

If I may say so you seem to have taken the definition of Marxism into a much wider sphere than it historically covers.
Marxism, to my understanding, grew out of an opposition to capitalism, an economic system which was seen to exploit “the working class”.
So, “To define Marxism in simple terms, it’s a political and economic theory where a society has no classes. Every person within the society works for a common good, and class struggle is theoretically gone.” (https://www.yourdictionary.com/articles ... definition)
Nowadays it seems that those on the “right” use it to describe anyone who doesn’t agree with them (usually “the left”).

[EnjoyingTheSun]

If I may say so you seem to have taken the definition of Marxism into a much wider sphere than it historically covers.
Marxism, to my understanding, grew out of an opposition to capitalism, an economic system which was seen to exploit “the working class”.
So, “To define Marxism in simple terms, it’s a political and economic theory where a society has no classes. Every person within the society works for a common good, and class struggle is theoretically gone.” (https://www.yourdictionary.com/articles ... definition)
Nowadays it seems that those on the “right” use it to describe anyone who doesn’t agree with them (usually “the left”).

I have no problem with democratic socialism at all. I sometimes wonder how practical it is and find its execution sometimes lacking but you can vote it in or out so I have no real problem with it.

My problem is with Communism, Marxism, Leninism, Trotskyism or whatever flavour differential there is to it.
I can best define it as that one that does away with free and fair elections, free press, murders or enslaves its opponents and terrifies its population into compliance.
Communism and fascism are cheeks on the same backside. If you are against communism you aren’t necessarily a fascist and vice versa.

Whenever it has taken power even with the best of intentions it soon discovers it is totally impractical and its only way of retaining power given the population soon discover that they don’t want communism after all is to form an authoritarian government.
Communists or its useful idiots will assure you that every communist government that has taken power and inevitably failed wasn’t real communism so if you give us another chance this time you’ll love it.

It is a sad fact of life that some will always do better than others and there is always an elite.
The elite might be decided by who is the best fighter, has the most friends, the most money or has risen highest in the party but whatever method you use there is always an elite. To imagine there won’t be is to believe in fairytales.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Nowadays it seems that those on the “right” use it to describe anyone who doesn’t agree with them (usually “the left”).

I had no problem labelling Corbyn a communist. I might have been unfair but given he had 100% taken the Marxist line on any foreign policy decision throughout his political career and when leader of the opposition surrounded himself with self confessed communists such as Andrew Murray and Seamus Milne I was playing the odds. Also he wouldn’t be the first extremist to tell fibs as to his real intentions.

When being chased by a group of 20 football hooligans who are chanting they are going to kick your head in there may of course be a couple who are just football supporters who like jogging and company but like I say I play the odds

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Sorry Erol I tuned out at the first binary Hope you are well

[waz-24-7]

I think that the nomenclature of different political ideologies is now rather dated as the olden eastern block figureheads are long gone.

The political spectrum in the modern world is more easily comprehended using a simple winged compass that indicated right left and centre.

ETS may be correct that the whole Brexit thing was absolutely a right of right wing and certainly I see my own views moving more to the right.
I remain steadfast that Brexit was going to be and now is an absolute tragedy for the UK and its citizens.

some will recollect predicting a breakup of the EU after the UK left. I recollect a bet with another poster.
The EU remains steadfast and has certainly not disintegrated.

Mr Trump is most definitely further right than our own brexit leaders. Elon Musk likewise. USA nationalism, far stronger than Brexit, is being peddled with threats and actions that are quite astounding.

Religion influenced politics is also worrying to me. Trumps support for politically right of right wing Israel is a sure fire scheme to assist and firmly entrench a non muslim/Arab regime in the Arab world. The most recent ideas of a luxury Riviera to replace Gaza is shocking to even the most ardent Zionist supporters.
Evangelical middle USA will love the idea. The Democrats will be in shock. Our own Mr Starmer and Farage...the silence is deafening!

Is the world in fear of the most powerful individual who is supported by the worlds wealthiest individual.

Do leaders and politicians tow the line of this NEW RIGHT wing nationalistic American ideology. To defend or retaliate or even object could be costly and result in a downfall from power.

[gates]

Trump is the nearest thing to Enoc Powl one of the greatest politicians ever. If he had become prime minister England would be as great as it has ever been. The do gooders made sure he didn’t succeed were do you stand on that. As you might be the cause of today

[EnjoyingTheSun]

ETS may be correct that the whole Brexit thing was absolutely a right of right wing and certainly I see my own views moving more to the right.
I remain steadfast that Brexit was going to be and now is an absolute tragedy for the UK and its citizens.

Is the latest plan to use incomprehensible English when putting words in my mouth

Trumps support for politically right of right wing Israel is a sure fire scheme to assist and firmly entrench a non muslim/Arab regime in the Arab world. The most recent ideas of a luxury Riviera to replace Gaza is shocking to even the most ardent Zionist supporters.

I generally look at the word regime as associated with authoritarian governments, Israel is one of the few democracies in the region.

Interesting you use the word non muslim given Israel and the Jews living in the area predate the existence of the Muslim religion by several centuries. We can argue all day about how much territory Israel should have but you can't ignore that they do have some claims to some of the land.

I don't care much for Netanyahu or his democratically elected government but given many in the West couldn't wait to victim blame immediately after the October 7th atrocities and before Israel had even taken any action I think many Israelis who weren't keen on Netanyahu's strong man act before will now vote for him. Unless you expect them to embrace a one state solution and hope that the West will ensure they aren't murdered by the Muslim majority within a decade.

[waz-24-7]

Yes I agree that Israel is the only real democracy in the Middle East. Do the Zionists have a historical right to claim further territory at the expense of the Palestinians. I think not. Look at Cyprus as a prime example of the historical occupancy and "ownership". Does Italy have a claim given the historical Venetian occupancy.

America does not support Israel simply because it is democratic. I believe its about the desire to keep the muslim/Arab countries in check.
If it wasn't for the oil wealth of the middle east the problems in the region would be far less.

Donald Trump seems intent in supporting Israel's ambition to secure "from the river to the sea". The ethnic cleansing and apartheid treatment of Palestinians would be done and dusted if not for Iran's financial and military support Palestine.

Its a choice now. Should one, a westerner, support Israel and its goal to secure a Zionist non muslim enclave supported by western , Christian, democratic values. OR support the Muslim, Arab, Palestinian goal to destroy Israel.

Of course the Palestians have been forever on the back foot and so a two state solution is best aspiration. I wonder the situation if the balance of power, strength and support was reversed. Would the Palestinians want it All?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Yes I agree that Israel is the only real democracy in the Middle East. Do the Zionists have a historical right to claim further territory at the expense of the Palestinians.

What further territory are they trying to claim? They forcibly removed all Israelis from Gaza to give it unencumbered to the Palestinians. The fact that they have retaliated for the atrocities of October 7th isn't a land grab. Israel has always been willing to trade land for peace and tried so on many occasions.

Donald Trump seems intent in supporting Israel's ambition to secure "from the river to the sea". The ethnic cleansing and apartheid treatment of Palestinians would be done and dusted if not for Iran's financial and military support Palestine.

I'm not sure what Trump is trying to do, I suspect he is making a sweeping ludicrous statement as the first step to try and sort out a solution. Eloquence is not his strong point.
Ethnic cleansing and apartheid are like genocide, open air prison etc are just ludicrous soundbites. If Israel had wanted to wipe out the Palestinians they could have done so by the morning of October 9th, its not as if they are going to get much support from the rest of the world no matter what they do.
There is no apartheid in Israel. Israeli Arabs have the same rights as Israeli Jews. Do Palestinians have the same rights in Israel? Well no because as they will always claim, they are a different nationality. Do I have the same rights in TRNC as a TC? Is TRNC an apartheid or racist state?

Of course the Palestians have been forever on the back foot and so a two state solution is best aspiration. I wonder the situation if the balance of power, strength and support was reversed. Would the Palestinians want it All?

If the posıtıons were reversed the Israelıs would at best be second class cıtızens at worst the vıctıms of a genocıde. A real genocide not one where we have to alter the boundaries to try and have it qualify.

A two state solution would be best but the Palestinians would want their state and to put all the Palestinians refugees into the Israeli state thus giving them the majority there too. I do wonder how many Palestinians who did live in what is now Israel pre 1948 are still alive.

The fact is the Palestinians and the surrounding states wish to remove all Jews from the area or have them live as second class citizens at best. Unfortunately the Israeli have bested them militarily on all occasions which is why they try to win the propaganda war.
This involves committing an atrocity and then hiding in tunnels while the civilian population cops the fall out. The Palestinians could comfortably shelter their civilian population in the tunnels but they want the martyrs. They use children as sandbags. Luckily they have our useful idiots in the West who fall for it.
As Golda Meir said 'Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us'

[Jeremy S]

Here I am thinking that this thread was about Donald Trump, only for it to diverge into long, boring diatribes, arguments, and counterarguments over Marxism, Brexit, etc., which I suspect few read or are persuaded to change their opinion by.

My six penneth worth on President Trump is that I was impressed with the difference in his approach this time in office, i.e. ending the US DEI culture, telling European leaders home truths about their lack of defence spending etc. Now, though, I am dismayed that his approach to the war in Ukraine and his approach to President Putin will sell out Ukraine to Russia.

[waz-24-7]

I have tried to keep the topic on track given the Vagueness of the topic heading "Donald Trump"
I do admire slightly his frankness and "get it done" attitude. However I can understand how many will cringe at some of his gun ho actions.
I particularly dislike his position on the Israel/Palestine problem and solution proposal. I think his position and likely proposals in Ukraine has legs.
Tariffs and America first.... I'm undecided. If Mr Starmer was more business orientated and supportive of UK business. He may see the possible opportunities as we are outside the EU.

[Brazen]

I have tried to keep the topic on track given the Vagueness of the topic heading "Donald Trump"
I do admire slightly his frankness and "get it done" attitude. However I can understand how many will cringe at some of his gun ho actions.
I particularly dislike his position on the Israel/Palestine problem and solution proposal. I think his position and likely proposals in Ukraine has legs.
Tariffs and America first.... I'm undecided. If Mr Starmer was more business orientated and supportive of UK business. He may see the possible opportunities as we are outside the EU.

But he’s not, and he won’t!

[EnjoyingTheSun]

I have tried to keep the topic on track given the Vagueness of the topic heading "Donald Trump"

Really? By shoehorning Brexit in? That said you’d shoehorn Brexit into a discussion about haemorrhoids

[waz-24-7]

I have tried to keep the topic on track given the Vagueness of the topic heading "Donald Trump"

Really? By shoehorning Brexit in? That said you’d shoehorn Brexit into a discussion about haemorrhoids

Given the complete and absolute failure of Brexit. Any contest to that ?
I desperately attempt to find a way forwards for the UK and support entirely a return to the single market economy.
Mr Trump may just offer a way to secure some prosperity. Will he tarrif UK goods. Will the "special relationship" give us an edge over the EU?

To simply put your head in the sand and not address the failure of brexit is folly indeed.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Given the complete and absolute failure of Brexit. Any contest to that ?
I desperately attempt to find a way forwards for the UK and support entirely a return to the single market economy.
Mr Trump may just offer a way to secure some prosperity. Will he tarrif UK goods. Will the "special relationship" give us an edge over the EU?

To simply put your head in the sand and not address the failure of brexit is folly indeed.

Well it wasn’t a failure we’re out

Every economy is suffering, those in the EU and those outside of it. Personally I think it may just have something to do with the world locking down for a couple of years.

Glad you admit that you’ve shoehorned Brexit into this thread as usual.

[waz-24-7]

Given the complete and absolute failure of Brexit. Any contest to that ?
I desperately attempt to find a way forwards for the UK and support entirely a return to the single market economy.
Mr Trump may just offer a way to secure some prosperity. Will he tarrif UK goods. Will the "special relationship" give us an edge over the EU?

To simply put your head in the sand and not address the failure of brexit is folly indeed.

Well it wasn’t a failure we’re out

Every economy is suffering, those in the EU and those outside of it. Personally I think it may just have something to do with the world locking down for a couple of years.

Glad you admit that you’ve shoehorned Brexit into this thread as usual.

Glad that you're Glad.
The UK is no longer at the EU table tho its clear finally the economic loss leaving has been . The total miscalculation upon immigration is abundantly clear. The billions for the NHS has gone well where indeed!! So many have realised the folly. I suspect in the Sunshine its not important.
However,
I think that our European isolation is an important consideration when it comes to USA relations and particularly whilst Mr Trump has the helm. American potential tariffs upon the EU may give the UK some advantage in winning work and exports.
Steel exported to the USA is rather specialised for the UK and tariffs now present obstacles to our steel industry. A trade deal is needed quickly.
Trade deals after Brexit have simply not materialised. Failure!!
Can our anti Trump government pull it out of the bag and seize opportunity or will they knuckle down and further disincentive and tax our SMEs
whilst throwing good money after bad on the NHS, Local council bail outs and privatisation plans.
Off topic but.
Every £ of public money is a tax on the private wealth creating sector. The economic inactive, welfare and social costs supported by our socialist government is simply unaffordable and financially unsustainable.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Fascinating as ever Waz.zzzzzz There’s a thread on Karpaz donkeys I think you need to shoehorn Brexit into.

[wanderer]

THE APPRENTICE FILM
Donald Trump early years worth a watch

[waz-24-7]

Fascinating as ever Waz.zzzzzz There’s a thread on Karpaz donkeys I think you need to shoehorn Brexit into.

I think possibly some European funding was secured for the Karpaz. I hope that wont put you off visiting.
God forbid you from coming out from your dark Brexit hole of denial.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

THE APPRENTICE FILM
Donald Trump early years worth a watch

I’m guessing it’s a hit piece on Trump? The actor playing him must be worth a fiver for the best actor Oscar.

Emilia Pérez has a dozen Oscar nominations and is
Spanish-language French musical about a Mexican cartel boss who transitions into a woman. I’m not seeing it becoming a Star Wars/Lord of the Rings type franchise tbh
At least the music is top notch, this clip is a must watch

https://youtu.be/kaChl7eJoEk?si=sdqcj0yQ-NO0BO1P

What happened to the days when they made films to entertain people?
They are either made to promote an agenda or to get the person starring in it to win an Oscar.
I’ve lost count of the amount of films I watch that have beautifully acted scenes that add zero to the plot. Eg here we have a scene of Daniel Day Lewis buying some Brussel Sproats.
Him and Frances McDormand have what, 3 Oscars apiece? I struggle to think of a film that either of them have made that I have watched and not thought how long has this got to go.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

I think possibly some European funding was secured for the Karpaz. I hope that wont put you off visiting.
God forbid you from coming out from your dark Brexit hole of denial.

I don’t think about Brexit every waking hour like you Waz.

I forgot about all that European funding. Britain would give them a million and in a fit of generosity the EU would give fifty grand back and tell us what to spend it on. Total scam but it fooled the likes of you

[Brazen]

“The European Union has advised against using a series of common words and phrases that include “man” in the latest version of its English style guide.

Politicians, officials and translators have been warned not to use words such as “tradesman” and “man-made” because they are not inclusive, in official guidance from the European Commission, the EU’s executive body”.
From the Daily Telegraph.

And Waz is dying to be reunited with these idiots who appear to have nothing better to do!

[waddo]

What has all this Post Brexit talk got to do about the title for this thread? If you guys/Gals want to rant on about Brexit then start a different thread so those who are not interested don't have to bother with it! Yes I don't have to read it, I know that before you point it out! However, everytime a new comment is added to the original thread you can't tell what it is about till you scroll through the rest of the junk to find out it's just a repeat from years ago!!! Start a new thread or give it a rest please!

[Brazen]

What has all this Post Brexit talk got to do about the title for this thread? If you guys/Gals want to rant on about Brexit then start a different thread so those who are not interested don't have to bother with it! Yes I don't have to read it, I know that before you point it out! However, everytime a new comment is added to the original thread you can't tell what it is about till you scroll through the rest of the junk to find out it's just a repeat from years ago!!! Start a new thread or give it a rest please!

Ask Waz!

[EnjoyingTheSun]

What has all this Post Brexit talk got to do about the title for this thread? If you guys/Gals want to rant on about Brexit then start a different thread so those who are not interested don't have to bother with it!

The problem is Waz would shoehorn Brexit into a post about someone selling a fridge.
What is interesting is when the subject is changed no-one seems to complain, but should you answer then you are accused of changing the subject.
It makes you wonder if people just want some completely unchallenged

[waz-24-7]

There is a very clear synergy between the ideology of Mr Trump and and a certain Mr Farage. The Reform party is an offshoot of a campaign run by Mr F and his biggest advocate Boris Johnson.

The Politics of the Western World continues to shift towards Fascism. One trigger point of that was undeniably the UK far Right. The victory of 2016 has provided a further platform to push on. The UK once again is getting behind a man that is very good at seeking out which tune to play as the pied piper.
Mr Trump has a clear supporter in Mr Farage. Elon Musk follows an even more drastic Fascist agenda. Clearly some shy away from discussion upon the clear road map within the Western World.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Waz you obviously missed yesterday’s German election and pretty much every election of the last 10 years where the countries in your beloved EU have consistently lurched further to the right than the U.K. and America.

[waz-24-7]

Waz you obviously missed yesterday’s German election and pretty much every election of the last 10 years where the countries in your beloved EU have consistently lurched further to the right than the U.K. and America.

Precisely my point.
Its not just the UK that is lurching to the right.
It is my opinion ,however, that in 2016 the UK public did just that rather unwittingly. Many middle and left of centre followed the pied piper.
Since then the lurch that you also reference has spread its wings encompassing the great powers on the Planet. USA, CHINA, and RUSSIA,

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Precisely my point.
Its not just the UK that is lurching to the right.
It is my opinion ,however, that in 2016 the UK public did just that rather unwittingly. Many middle and left of centre followed the pied piper.

Not really your point but still.
Leaving the EU was not particularly a right wing thing. Corbyn has been anti EU all his political career. During Brexit he was stuck between a rock and a hard place so pretty much just ignored and fudged the question. Tony Benn was against the EU as he wanted our Parliament to have sovereignty. He was hardly right wing was he? Benn was too far to the left for my taste but he was a politician of principle & pro democracy and a patriot. Being a patriot doesn’t mean you are a nationalist.

Jean-Marie Le Pen the first politician to go far right in the modern era was a pretty big figure in French politics from the early 80s, he won a seat in the European Parliament in 1984. Back then 20 year old Farage was a trainee in the London Metal Exchange having only left school 2 years before and 13 year old Musk was still at school in South Africa.
So to say Brexit had anything to do with the lurch to the right in European politics is nonsense