Is This The End for UK plc

[cyprusishome]

I am sorry to post this but it really has peed me off. It has nothing to do with the staff but PC gone totally mad.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -pork.html

[Mozgor]

Couldn't agree more, it's taking discrimination to an extreme level and technically is discrimination against those buying pork and/or alcohol! Absolutely absurd!

[Panchocat]

Agree, Absolutely Ridiculous!
If they work in shops they should have to handle the merchandise! Either that or don't let them work in the food hall.
Another nail in the coffin for M&S I think.

[Marions]

Well this is certainly not the country into which I wasborn and raised. Madness, complete and utter.

I wonder how a fundamentalist Christian would get on to whom alcohol is a sin. Would they still have a job in an organization that sells such goods, and would they be allowed to say 'It is against my religion!'/ But in actual fact, I guess the entire thing goes against my religion, Plus of course, would Saudi Arabia allow me to wear whatever clothes are contained in my wardrobe,which are quite acceptable by Christian standards, or let me drive a car because I am a qualified driver, etc etc. No they would not, so why is a Christian country (which it clearly no longer is) bend over backwards in such a manner to accommodate the religious beliefs of others.

Sad - very very sad.

[erol]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25488259

As far as I can see ONE customer was asked to wait to be served. Hardly the end of the world or the PC gone mad. It seems to me it was a 'mistake' more than anything else. 99.9% of the time staff are placed in roles where such things do not impact them or customers and why not ? If I had an employee that was (to create one hypothetical scenario) scared of heights and they did not want to, for example, climb a ladder to put up signs or decorations and I could assign roles such that they could be found other duties and use someone not scared of heights to climb the ladder then I would do that. What sensible employer would not ?

Seems more like daily mail hysteria to me.

[Sandman]

Northern Ireland has similar problems. Because of the religious fanatics there you cannot buy alcohol at certain check outs in supermarkets!!!

[cyprusishome]

It is not a case of it being one customer or one million customers it is the fact that people with few brain cells think they should entertain such policies. In the past we have seen amoeba brained council officials banning Christmas festivities in case it upsets a minority! The UK has traditionally been a place of freedom of speech and thought and the majority quite happy to say nothing and just let life flow by. However I believe by creeping in quietly things have changed and if people do not stand up and shout about stupidity portrayed in these articles then there is no hope for the country of my birth and to which I always maintain I am English.

I currently live in North Cyprus and although we keep being told it is a secular state it is still has an Islamic base the same as the UK has a Christian base, to that end I fully respect the beliefs and traditions of Moslem people. The same must apply to those who seek to live in the UK.

[erol]

.... it is the fact that people with few brain cells think they should entertain such policies.

A policy that an employer should where possible try and accommodated a workers individual situation and preferences seems an entirely sensible one to me. This is only news because it happens to relate to religion an Islam. If B and Q has a policy that female staff are allowed to ask customers who want help with heavy items to politely ask them to wait until a man is available to help them, would not make the news.

[cyprusishome]

Read the policies as stated by M&S, that is if someone for whatever belief cannot work in a certain environment they will not put them into that position. ie the company policy is that some one would not be placed on a check out if they cannot handle alcohol or beef or tins of beans. What appears to have happened here is a local issue and the persons responsible will be reprocessed. That said, if you apply for a specific job then it is no good complaining afterwards that you cannot do this or that.

[kaiserphil]

.... it is the fact that people with few brain cells think they should entertain such policies.

A policy that an employer should where possible try and accommodated a workers individual situation and preferences seems an entirely sensible one to me. This is only news because it happens to relate to religion an Islam. If B and Q has a policy that female staff are allowed to ask customers who want help with heavy items to politely ask them to wait until a man is available to help them, would not make the news.

Absolute BS Erol! This sort of thing is common in other jobs in the UK. There girls are put up to these "complaints" by their menfolk.

CIS is correct, it matters not how many customers are involved, it is a matter of principle. It is a featrure of the increasing, creeping "Islamization" of the UK.

[Marions]

In today's Daily Mail; a spokesperson for M & S says that this not normal policy. So I think they are indirectly apologizing. But I wonder how many customers they have lost.

What amazes me is that people can work in a shop that sells alcohol and meat stuffs (pork in particular) and yet will not push a button on a till to sell it. They are not handling it, drinking it or eating it, but merely pushing buttons for money. Madness, complete and utter madness - and it has nothing to do with respecting belief systems, but crass stupidity.

But Merry Christmas to them all.

[Heather on the Hill]

Funny thing is I was in a shop this morning where a lady (who is presumably Turkish Cypriot and nominally Muslim) was trying very hard to persuade me to buy mulled wine to celebrate Christmas an seemed to have no problems at all in handling it. Nor had I any problems in buying pork! Perhaps we should all be grateful that we live in a country that practices religious tolerance and stop grumbling about it so much.

Having said that, it seems to me a good thing that an organisation like M & S who have enough staff and resources to be flexible should allow staff to avoid items which are repugnant to them whether for religious or other reasons - the example of sufferers from vertigo given above is a good one.

[nonna]

Totally agree, this is utter nonsence. M&S should know better, it is the food halls that are keeping them in profit! Most of the friendly corner shops in the UK are now owned by Muslim families and most are only to happy to take your money for alchohol, bacon etc. What is that old saying? If you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen! Happy christmas and New Year to everyone x

[erol]

Funny thing is I was in a shop this morning where a lady (who is presumably Turkish Cypriot and nominally Muslim) was trying very hard to persuade me to buy mulled wine to celebrate Christmas an seemed to have no problems at all in handling it. .....

And in the UK the vast majority of 'muslims' I am sure would have and do have no problem either, but a tiny fraction do - which I suspect is exactly the same as here in north Cyprus. Normally that tiny tiny fraction that do have such issues are not put in positions where they have to do such things but found other roles, and thus no one ever 'notices'. What we have in this 'news' story then is a 'slip up' where this normal procedure went wrong in ONE M&S store, affecting a minuscule amount of customers in an extremely minor way, being picked up by elements of the press and blown totally out of proportion and being presented as evidence of the 'end of the UK as we know it' and such like.

[dippersgirl]

Definitely blown totally out of proportion. Can't believe there was such a shortage of news, no children mauled by dogs, no soldiers killed???

[Kavenkoy]

There is a lot to agree with in points ,depending on your own view .

Dipper girl on 15 sums it up as there is no better news ,and it's a sensitive subject in a week we sentenced two Islamic extremists for that dreadful wool which attack,and then have a bus load of migrants from Romania ,and Bulgaria nipping over for a free pocket of cash.

Thee is also a view the UK is fast becoming a mongrel race where any Johnny Foreigner has more rights and beliefs than any UK born and bred citizen.

Would this employee get disciplined in some other store ,workplace for refusing ?

I would like erols view on rights in the UK in in one shop to be sent to the TRNC ministers.
This country can't give equal rights to foreigners in any shape .

But this is off subject

Kav

[erol]

Just to be clear I am not saying that a muslim employee has a RIGHT to refuse to handle pork or alcohol. I am saying that a good employer will try and accommodate such sensitivities where they can and that doing so is the correct thing to do and it would seem 99.999% of the time such a system 'works' and results in happier employees and unaffected customers.

As for the the UK fast becoming a mongrel race, it has as far as I can see, always been a mongrel 'race'. The elements that make up the 'pot' may vary over the years but its always been a mix of indigenous, invaders, conquerors, immigrants and others. Even the name is a 'mixture' (united kingdom - ie several separate kingdoms joined together).

[Kavenkoy]

I see Erol ,my mistake if I appeared to suggest you supported this.

As for the UK and its mongrel state .
The UK was formed not from Eastern Europeans ,not from Asians,Indians ,and other free loading benefit seeking freeloaders ....but from the scots,welsh,Irish etc .........

I am English first ,sometime from the UK ,but never a European

Have a good night

Kav

[Heather on the Hill]

"benefit seeking freeloaders" ?!!!!!!! So what exactly would you call the Vikings and Danes (Scandanavians) , Picts (Scots) who raped an pillaged the country and its people ?Or the Romans (Italians) who invaded, took over the whole country and made a fortune exporting its mineral wealth (and slaves!) to Rome, or the Normans (French) who also invaded an claimed the land itself as theirs, and there are still people who claim descent from them.? And talk about pots and kettles are there no English (or other British) not to mention EEC member nationals who take illegal advantage of the "Welfare State"? My experience of Indians and Pakistanis when I lived in the UK was that as a general rule (there are always exceptions) was that they were among the hardest working , worked hardest and longest and most unsocial hours, and were an esse

[Heather on the Hill]

Sorry about the duplication (I tried to "edit" but seems I cant cancel once a post is sent) - I was typing in front of the fire and the battery warning came up, so had to move!

I was going to say that from what I saw and experienced Asians and other Commonwealth immigrants before them became an essential part of the British economy as they actually did jobs that the British would not.

[paddywack]

Northern Ireland has similar problems. Because of the religious fanatics there you cannot buy alcohol at certain check outs in supermarkets!!!

I live in N. Ireland, would you clarify your statement.

[turtle]

I wonder if you went into your local Asian corner shop and bought a pack of pork sausages out of the freezer,....would they serve you?

Of course they would without hesitation.

[erol]

I wonder if you went into your local Asian corner shop and bought a pack of pork sausages out of the freezer,....would they serve you?

Of course they would without hesitation.

As I am sure 99% of the 'Asians' working in M&S and Tesco and Asda etc etc etc do as well. Just as I am sure if the Asian corner shop owner had an extreme devout cousin visiting and helping out in their shop, they would find a way of using his help without him having to handle things he was uncomfortable handling rather than demand he handle those things or not help at all.

[turtle]

Erol
I am sure if I refused to do what I'm paid to do my boss might have a thing or two to say about it.

[iancrumpy]

It is unfortunate but also innevitable that the Mail and other such newspapers like to have such reports ... they know their readership ... they know that reports on Muslim shopworkers refusing to handle pork or alcohol, or on immigrant "freeloaders" will sell newpapers ... these editors don't care that (as pointed out by H-on-the-H) the vast majority of immigrants in the UK are not "freeloaders", or (as pointed out by Erol) that any such rare occurences at the checkout are almost certainly a miscalculation on the part of the store. Moreover, the Mail et al know that stirring up an already racially-charged UK could lead to social unrest ... but that's not important to them - it's important to have stories that will further endear themselves to their readership

As I said, it's sad that such newspapers like to report on such matters, but the only other option is a state-controlled media

[Sandman]

Paddywack - what do you need clarifying? In Supermarkets in N Ireland there are signs up preventing the purchase of alcohol at some checkouts. this is because of the taliban mentality of the paisleyites!! all religious nutters!

[Jonnie]

In a cosmopolitan multi religious society I do not have a problem with M & S trying to be accommodating to staff like this and it is really just an incident being blown out of proportion. It to me is no different than being more accommodating to women on the payroll when it comes to strenuous tasks. I do think this is a big press story grabber designed to fuel the current immigration hysteria in the UK.

[Kavenkoy]

Message 19 .....when you lived in the UK your local Asian community may have been hardworking .
Sadly taxi drivers who claim benefits because they say they don't earn a lot is more common.
The "shop keepers " that have appeared and very quickly found great success in business beyond belief in justa few years ....ask where all the heroin comes from .

As for Romans ,Danes and others yes any country can boast that ,but that isn't what we are discussing .......if any place has been invaded more than Cyprus ?

If I lived in a country I would respect that country , and it's norm .

On the original posting Mand S MANAGEMENT are to blame for the position .

Daily mail trying to hype it up
But there is a issue in the UK ,that in 20 years you will see a Asian prime minister .

Sad but it's deeper than pork and alcohol.

Kav

[Marions]

In theory, the philosophies and ethics are all correct, but the life situation can feel different. Had I been the one in the queue, I would have been LIVID, and would have wondered why a large company (or any company) has someone on a check out with such beliefs.

Secondly, were I in Saudi Arabia, I would know I cannot drive a car and my dress must be quite different to what I would choose. Quite simply I respect those laws, or I might lose my head.

Britain has a Queen who is also head of the Church which has certain standards, and there are fundamentalists who do not believe in imbibing, that they would not take a job that challenged those beliefs. I dread to think what had happened if it were a Christian behind the till. It would probably have been 'Sorry but this is Marks and Spencers- we serve everyone, but you cannot uphold your belief at the till. Change your mind, or leave the com pany.'

But maybe other aspects of life should be highlighted. I know someone who is being transferred to a new work place that is inconvenient to ALL the staff (away form the centre of town, no parking facilities, having to wear a uniform for a desk job where they are not seen by the public)and who have al been told they must decide in 6 weeks, whereas their contract for leaving states 3 months' notice. What rights to objection, comepsnation, severance pay etc do they have - nOTHING, and this is allo connected with a large security company.

Surely the Daily Mail is, as has been said before, highlighting the things that they feel matter to their readers. But I know had I been that customer, would not darken the doors of M & S again - life is too short , and who knows that customer may have had an angry boss who said 'You are late back from lunch, your pay will be docked!' The knock on effects of one tiny action can have huge ripples on the pond of life.

[cyprusishome]

This story also appeared in Daily Telegraph but nobody is condemning that rag!!!!!
I remember another story where a lady was not allowed to wear a cross on a chain around her neck in case it offended somebody!!!

This is nothing to do with racism or against religion, there is enough of that in C.A.R., Mali, Chad, Somalia etc where people are being slaughtered for their beliefs, it is political correctness gone mad. The UK has accommodated all races over the centuries unlike many other western countries but as an Englishman traced by at least four hundred years I get fed up of socialist do gooders telling me what I cannot do. I abide by the laws of my adopted North Cyprus and others should do the same where ever they decide they want to settle.

[erol]

.... I get fed up of socialist do gooders telling me what I cannot do. I abide by the laws of my adopted North Cyprus and others should do the same where ever they decide they want to settle.

Who is telling you what you can not do (in regards to this 'news' story) ? Who is breaking the law (in regards to this 'news' story) ?

[Sandman]

Kav - get a life!!!

[turtle]

There is another point to this issue,..
Why should the consumer have to go to another checkout to be served with these products, why can't the till operator be changed ?

God forbid the shop might respect the customer ???

[Heather on the Hill]

Actually I worked for an Asian Town Clerk at one time in the UK and he did not try to impose his religious beliefs on anyone and was very efficient and fair minded. Perhaps an Asian PM would not be such a bad thing, the home grown ones recently dont seem to have done much good!

Marion I suspect your example of the employee of a Security Company is a victim of changes in the employmnent laws in the UK in the l990s, and I agree they are most unfair, but strictly speaking OT they had nothing to do with
Asian immigrants or Islam or any religious beliefs, but a result of compliance with the regulations of the European Community!

We dont know the circumstances of this incident, how long the queue was, how many other assistants were available etc.,, or why that person in question was doing that job in the first place. M & S have lots of Depts other than food an booze and maybe she nomally worked in clothing eg. I agree this is just a ploy in the silly season to sell newspapers and is best treated with the contempt it deserves and ignored.

Happy Christmas everyone, and particularly for any who dont celebrate Christmas, Yeni yılınız kutlu olsun.

[erol]

There is another point to this issue,..
Why should the consumer have to go to another checkout to be served with these products, why can't the till operator be changed ?

God forbid the shop might respect the customer ???

99.9999% of the time the customer does NOT have to go to another till. Normally such staff with such sensibilities ARE placed in departments where there is no issue for the employee or customer. This was a rare and exceptional 'mistake' (the placing of THIS employee on checkouts) that has to my mind been blown out of all reasonable proportion and context. M and S have an excellent and long record of respecting both their customers AND their staff.

[Kavenkoy]

Kav - get a life!!!

Got one thanks ,it's in M and S but it's ok

Kav

I also got pm from some body who didn't want to is themselves and then sent me a pm and deleted their account

Great stuff ,must have hit a raw nerve with Annie ,Vidal ....rofl who ever you are ,anonymous dear me what's that
About

[turtle]

I find this subject fascinating.

People with devout religious beliefs are quite prepared to take a days pay without the commitment to the job ?.
Take the Brethren......they want nothing to do with modern life but more than happy to take the financial trappings modern life provides for them,..especially on the backs of other people.

Bizarre really !

[Sandman]

Exactly Turtle !! Hypocrites and shysters the lot of them but they cause so many problems for ordinary decent people!!