Ashamed to be BRITISH

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Sun 13 Apr 2014 9:52 pm

I wil be writing an article, but it is complicated Turtle. First and foremost it is a society holding its AGM to which members only are allowed, so difficult to know what one can report and what is meant to be private.Howeve,r prior to the meeting a lot of 'stuff' was flying around , much of which got re-iterated.

Fundamentally it would appear that the BRS was sailing along nicely as far as the members (many of them!) were concerned but there seem to have been some personality clashes wthin the committee and this all came to a head at the AGM AS A RESULT OF WHICH ALL THE EXISTING COMMITTEE RESIGNED BEFORE THE eLECTIONS DUE to A DISTURBANCE CAUSED BY TWO RESOLUTIONS PUT FORWARD WHICH WERE NOT DISCUSSED OR DEBATED. (SORRRY, CAPS STUCK AGAIN). ~And many of the former committee members being elected as a block.

But the proceedings were not conducted in a manner one has come to expect from Annual General Meetings. (and that, I think, is an understatement). But let others tlel you how they saw it -

Jonnie · Post by **Jonnie** » Sun 13 Apr 2014 9:52 pm

Who is keeping what secret?

Jonnie · Post by **Jonnie** » Sun 13 Apr 2014 10:03 pm

"Fundamentally it would appear that the BRS was sailing along nicely as far as the members (many of them!) were concerned but there seem to have been some personality clashes wthin the committee and this all came to a head at the AGM AS A RESULT OF WHICH ALL THE EXISTING COMMITTEE RESIGNED BEFORE THE eLECTIONS DUE to A DISTURBANCE CAUSED BY TWO RESOLUTIONS PUT FORWARD WHICH WERE NOT DISCUSSED OR DEBATED. (SORRRY, CAPS STUCK AGAIN). ~And many of the former committee members being elected as a block."

cAN YOU CLARIFY THIS A BIT PLEASE mARION (SORRY my caps lock) it is a tad confusing.

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Sun 13 Apr 2014 10:39 pm

Sorry, I wrote rubbish at the end. Trust you can understand the first long sentence, but I mucked up on the end. What happened was that as soon as Resolution 2 somehow got ovted in (with no discussion) and this was to do with upholding a 17 year long 'tradiiton' not to have partners serving on the committee together (such resolution obviously aimed at two particular people), Amanda immediately resigned, followed by Malcolm and a domino effect , leavin g only Nigel standing, as he was chairing.l Who subsequently also stood down after the block election as he stated he had held off his resignation due to his chairing. This meant that the remainder of those nominated and on the Ballot paper being elected. None of the original seven remained.

Hope that makes more sense. I think I ought to go to bed - I am weary. So maybe not making sense.

Fundamentally, the original seven all resigned, and the new 8 got in.

Carbotec · Post by **Carbotec** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 5:27 am

Reg Msg 53. Jonnie Marion has got it right, the existing committee had achieved more in the last four months than the last five years. The last two years has been spent sorting out the total mess that was the membership database, the accounts and defining the rules of the Society. With nearly 200 new members since Jan 1st 2014 I think they had got it right. Communication with the website and emails had never been better, there was now a summary of the local Turkish news translated for the benefit our of members.
Stephen Day brought on the Resoultion 1 but would not allow the committee to respond, there was not a vote, he then went straight into Resolution 2 and again would not allow Amanda to respond. In fact their treatment of her was absolutely appalling!
Amanda resigned followed by her partner Malcolm. The very guts of this committee was gone, so the remaining committee stepped down.
Why couldn't the old committee just let go and and leave those making such progress get on with it, a shame, a sad day for the BRS
So it's back to the old ways!

come_on_aylin · Post by **come_on_aylin** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 6:23 am

I am a member but was unable to attend the meeting on Saturday. It doesn't sound very democratic that the committee were elected as default. If members are genuinely unhappy with the new committee then surely they could table a vote of no confidence and force elections. However, if no-one else wants to stand then what can you do.

Post by **Soner** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 7:28 am

Lally, msg 37, you can create a poll on the forum, just start a new topic with poll.

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 10:12 am

Having spoken to many people over the last two days , there are a couple of point sin answer to earlier questions here, plus other matters that have come tolight.
Firstly, may I say, that I haveno doubt tha tone person may well be correct in saying 'this will be a nine day wonder' there is also the matter of the wishes of the MEMBERSHIP. Not the committee, but the members. Those who are happy with things as they are will obviously not be concerned to change anything, although I do wish we could have some positive statements from the new committee and their supporters. But for the rest, I am sure there is a great sense of frustration.

So could I just say (and I speak as a member who is not nor ever has been on the committee) that:
(a) Don't even think of starting another organization. It is HUGE headache,s and really not necessary.
(b) The resolution on not having partners on the committee could not be brought in as a rule until at least 2015 so in effect is not a resolution that can be legally implemented and it was that which caused the mass resignaitons.
(c) I was trying to plead with Amanda and the rest to wait until after the election results.
(d) Information has now come to light to show that it is more than likely that all seven of the old committee would have bene re-elected with three others of the new.My votes were all null and void and so were others.

There is therefore room, I think (and legal beagles would have to be consulted, and also the ex committee would need to be willing ) for an EGM to be called to resolve the issues form Saturday which were beyond being called a disgrace. But this would have to be a strong representation of the membership to call for such a meeting which would take place 42 days after the request.

If anyone feels it is worth it, that COULD be a path to go down.

(On a personal level, I love them all, and am impartial and do not take sides, but I believe firmly in proper procedure and fairness and justice).

Loobyloo · Post by **Loobyloo** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 11:23 am

I would have thought to call an EGM would help to give this committee some sort of credibility as I think it is probably fair to say they currently have very little
The resolution on spouses on the team is I feel totally discriminatory, husbands and wives should have the freedom to stand in their own right and bring their differing skills to the table. In this day and age I cannot believe that this should be thought to be acceptable.
I also believe the membership at large had the right to listen in an atmosphere where they could hear and think about what was being said re accounts and membership nos and decide for themselves what was or not correct and I think this still needs to be aired in a suitable environment as the basic issue here is honesty.

Mollie the cat · Post by **Mollie the cat** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 11:28 am

Marions,
Because of the injustice shown on Saturday, it would only be right and proper to hold an EGM. The "bullies" are in and the credibility of the BRS is certainly down.

Of course the past committee members would have to be canvassed to see if they would consider being a part of the BRS again after such a debacle on Saturday, personally I would tell them to shove it where the sun don't shine.
The current committee deserve no support whatsoever, they are stuck in a time warp. I too have it on very good authority that of those who did cast their vote including me, the members of the last committee would now be in post.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 11:57 am

First I am not and never have been a member of the BRS, this partly because of the off hand way I was treated some 6 years ago when I first enquired about membership, what it entailed and what the objectives of the BRS were - to be told "Join and find out" was the start of the nail in the coffin! The final thump that drove it in was to read that "The BRS is the voice of all British ExPats in Northern Cyprus", a statement that you can no longer find I might add. I am a British ExPat in Northern Cyprus and I have my own voice thank you, what you may wish to say on my behalf may well be totally at odds with what I would say.
I freely admit that, in the past, I have found some information available to non members on the BRS website to be most useful, things like Residency information that everyone needed for instance.
I have always viewed the BRS as yet another "Society with Secrets", the committee of which seemed to be split between those who wished to do good for it's members and those who wished to do things that satisfied their own personal desires. Maybe I am wildly wrong in this assumption, but then this most recent tirade on the forum - presumably mostly from BRS members - seems to substantiate my views.

My point is this: Msg 51 stated "First and foremost it is a society holding its AGM to which members only are allowed, so difficult to know what one can report and what is meant to be private"!!! If this is a true and valid statement and I have no reason to doubt it myself - then why has there been so much discussion on the subject under this thread?

If the BRS wishes to remain a "Society with secrets" then can it not have its own forum on its own web site where its own members can raise their issues about subjects such as the AGM?

I have nothing against free speech at all but should not matters such as the latest BRS problems be kept within house and not spread far and wide for all to make up their own story's? Keep what is private, private!

ITFCMike · Post by **ITFCMike** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 12:02 pm

This is nonsense how can anyone say with any authority that the result of the vote would have been one way or the other. There was no vote,many slips were not completed,why should they have been,many were thrown away, there was no official count.

I went there with an open mind but I have to say the opening address giving by the acting chairperson set the tone for the rest of the meeting and she quickly lost my vote.
Most of the shouting seemed to be coming from the existing committee supporters,the vote on the partners on the committee was done correctly if you had been listening rather then shouting.
The vast majority quite rightly voting in favour.
The motion was carried and the existing committee choose to walk out because they did not like it spoke volumes.

rowan · Post by **rowan** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 12:43 pm

I totally agree with the last posting, I was there and the opening words set the tone for what followed.

Mollie the cat · Post by **Mollie the cat** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 1:09 pm

Sorry to correct you, but the votes that were cast were collected and examined. Officially of course you are right, there were some who did not vote, but for what it's worth of those who did vote, the past committee would have been voted in.

How you can justify the actions of those shouting in the audience just beggars belief?

Loobyloo · Post by **Loobyloo** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 2:20 pm

I have met Amanda on three occasions, twice in places where she was trying to organise discounts for BRS members and once at the NCCT coffee morning from these brief meetings she struck me as having the energy and commitment that the BRS needs and often appears to be lacking I think it is truly dreadful that she was reduced to tears and have no doubt that she must have been very hurt and felt that all of her efforts had been reduced to nothing.

Mountain Edge · Post by **Mountain Edge** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 2:23 pm

It was blatantly obvious that some people's sole intent was to cause disruption. From the first minutes of the Chairmans report onwards it was a case of he who shouts loudest. Quite pathetic and I won't even qualify it with childish as most children have more manners.

Mollie the cat · Post by **Mollie the cat** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 2:40 pm

There was a man and woman not 5ft from me who never shut up for the whole duration, about half way down nearest the coffee. He was shouting and bawling waving papers around, the woman with him did the same and even approached the committee, I can assure you he was not supporting the committee.

A woman in the middle of the room also made her presence felt.

I thought the whole idea was to raise you hand and be asked to speak through the chair, or do I have something wrong there?

A shambles, a complete shambles the whole affair. In answer to the post earlier, it can hardly be classed as "secret" with over 330 people there!

I have a saying: I can keep a secret, its the people I tell who can't keep a secret.

james1607 · Post by **james1607** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 3:18 pm

My Wife and I joined the BRS in December 2013.We have found the existing committee members to be so helpful and informative particulay Malcolm on Property matters.We decided to attend the AGM on Saturday where we witnessed disguting behaviour from numerous members of the audience, who were intent on disrupting the meeting.
Their behaviour was ceratinly noted by the Credit West Team who were present.Their antics have certainly resulted to date in extremely negative comment on this forum as can be seen.The negative media from this will certainly have an impact on the BRS for some considerable time if noy years.
It will be a long time if ever again we get involved with the BRS and a sad day for existing members of the BRS.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 4:19 pm

What is very noticeable is the fact not one comment on this situation, either here or on the BRS web page, from anybody from the current committee explaining, discussing or defending their actions. Where do they intend to take the Society? If it is where they led us (sic) before with false membership numbers, poor accounting and little productive dialogue for expats rights with the TRNC Government - the BRS is dead! Further, I wonder how long Credit West will support/sponsor such a bombastic, arrogant and disrespectful approach to an organisation's membership.

squashmad · Post by **squashmad** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 4:55 pm

Did any of the new committee actually purchase a ticket and attend the lunch afterwards which was for the life long members as it was mentioned that none of them had purchased tickets for this lunch, or was it left to the outgoing committee to make the effort?

me&him · Post by **me&him** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 6:30 pm

No none of them went. Nigel, the outgoing Hon Sec, gave two tickets to David Brown and said that David should go as the new Chairman, but he didn't.

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 7:46 pm

For those who have been waiting for a response form the new committee, this has just been posted on the B RS web page
NEW CHAIRMAN STATEMENT

I, along with many of you, was extremely dismayed by the manner of discussion at the AGM on Saturday. It reflected badly on the BRS and is something that we do not want to see again.

We now have to move forward but before doing so I would like to express my thanks for the work done by those committee members that decided to resign. The differences between the two groups of nominees were never a reflection on their dedication and effort.

We have a new team that has to pick up our Society and put the events of the past few weeks behind us. That new team has an ideal blend of experience and knowhow with some new blood that has some fresh thinking. In particular the combination of Mike Maternaghan and Stephen Day in government liaison should ensure that we are on the front pages of newspapers for the right reasons, namely working for an improvement in our TRNC lifestyles. One of the first items on our action list will be to pick up on the Ministers comments about their thoughts on the new residency scheme. There are clearly some issues that concern us and we need to be involved in their decision process.

Another item on our agenda will be to review the rules of the society and to examine ambiguity and procedures that have led to recent difficulties.

There are many members that know me and some of my achievements. For those newer members that I haven’t met I can assure you that the Society is in very good hands and with your support we can rebuild our credibility and trust.

Finally we will be arranging a “meet the committee” session in the near future. In the meantime if you have any comments please do not hesitate to contact me on my email address dwb.brstrnc@gmail.com.

Regards

David Brown

Mollie the cat · Post by **Mollie the cat** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 7:57 pm

Forget it, you are wasting your breath. You have lost so much credibility because of your bullish actions on Saturday. You will never again restore the faith members had for the BRS.

You have pushed the clock back years in terms of honesty and integrity. I understand why you have put this statement out, but it doesn't wash.

I for one would go with a new ex pat society to rival the "old Guard" who chose to railroad the new committee.

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 8:07 pm

Be honest would you have gone in his position? and I am on neither side!, I just started this, maybe not a good idea in hind sight, as I seem to have lost a very good friend, I do hope not!! I do wish the "new committee "all the luck in the World, they will need it!

Hutch · Post by **Hutch** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 8:31 pm

I love Molly the cat and I think David Brown's statement is completely insincere, arrogant, and offensive to intelligent people.

It's funny that in the Resolution 1 they demanded the truth behind the 3 prominent resignations but were not actually prepared to hear the actuality truth !

People don't resign if they feel they have done nothing wrong! They would fight their innocence!! What does that suggest?

Rosehillgirl · Post by **Rosehillgirl** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 8:39 pm

We had planned to join the BRS on our next visit in a few weeks-but not a chance now.

I had previously read stuff put out by the 'old guard' before the AGM-and I wasn't impressed then.

They seem to want to run it as their own private 'club' and are not forward looking at all.

We would be very interested in some sort of alternative.

It sounds as if the 'old guards' supporters in the audience behaved in the most appalling manner-or should I say totally devoid of manners.

Rosie

Carbotec · Post by **Carbotec** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 8:54 pm

I personally think an EGM is called for , who is with me?

me&him · Post by **me&him** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 9:14 pm

Wow!!
Just read David Brown's 'statement'
Having met him a couple of times, I can honestly say that if anyone is going to set the ex-pats status here back several years, he's the man!

Sandman · Post by **Sandman** » Mon 14 Apr 2014 11:40 pm

Typical brits!! You could start a fight in an empty room!!

me&him · Post by **me&him** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 3:10 am

Ref message 74 Owl lady

David Brown definitely SHOULD have gone to the Lunch!! He was strutting about with a big smile on his face, he could have gone in even just for a few minutes to reassure the older members after the chaos.

Carbotec · Post by **Carbotec** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 5:48 am

Msg79 I hope your comment is aimed at the raucous attendees.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 7:09 am

Ref msg 74 above. Owl Lady, you are to be applauded for starting this thread. Having done so has exposed the boorish behaviour of some expats with their own agenda to prevent the knowledge of poor accounting and members database fudging from being debated by the membership of the Society. Thank you and well done.

Jonnie · Post by **Jonnie** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 7:11 am

Rosehillgirl wrote:We had planned to join the BRS on our next visit in a few weeks-but not a chance now.

I had previously read stuff put out by the 'old guard' before the AGM-and I wasn't impressed then.

They seem to want to run it as their own private 'club' and are not forward looking at all.

We would be very interested in some sort of alternative.

It sounds as if the 'old guards' supporters in the audience behaved in the most appalling manner-or should I say totally devoid of manners.

Rosie

I get confused with this old guard stuff. The only e-mails I got prior to the AGM were badly written ones lacking in substance that criticised others lack of substance. These were written by what was at the time the "new guard" technically the old guard now. These at the time may have been directed at the "old guard" which has become the new guard so possibly now the "new old guard" or maybe even the "new old, old guard".

Some have said the problems started with the outgoing chair's address but a couple of things are clear to me. Firstly no-one seems to have taken charge of the meeting allowing it to turn into some sort of vociferous riot and secondly the "lot" that have assumed charge were only able to do so because the other "lot" threw their toys out of the pram and chose not to stand thus leaving those standing without challenge.

I suggest if anyone is that passionate you should stand and challenge at your first opportunity which will probably be the agm next year.

It is not a good example of what British behaviour should be but it is sadly typical and is not the only organisation to fall foul of infighting and the inability to keep things on a non-personal level.

lally · Post by **lally** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 7:39 am

Re post 72.
David Brown’s statement is extremely hypocritical given that, the new vice chairman was one of the main instigators as far as the “bullying” of the old committee went on. It reminded me of Prime Minister’s question time at times. As far as I am concerned my Wife and I see no future for the BRS until the “old guard” move on and let new ideas and initiatives take place, which were well underway with the previous committee. Also don’t really buy into David Brown’s statement “That new team has an ideal blend of experience and knowhow. They have had lots of opportunities over many years and in my opinion have frankly missed some of the key issues/arguments when dealing with the government over the years, as an example the property problems several thousand ex pats have experienced over the last 12 years or so.

rowan · Post by **rowan** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 9:34 am

sounds like nobody is going to even given them a chance to do anything, doomed before kick-off

squashmad · Post by **squashmad** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 11:37 am

Rowan, in reply to your comment in msg 85 they are doomed by their own inefficiency before they even start from their previous years 'experience' as per David Brown's statement; "That new team has an ideal blend of experience and knowhow..." - the new team is the old team that made these serious errors in accounting!

The one thing that stood out for me was the error over the accounting ie the membership figures that they had quoted in previous years did not tally up to the subscriptions, the accounts being in a poor state when handed over - does that strike you as professional?

What about this statement in David Brown's message: "There are many members that know me and some of my achievements." Is the BRS not meant to be a group effort and not an individual effort to support the expat community? Obviously not, this is about me, myself and I .....

To not attend the life time members lunch to me is an absolute disgrace, even if you did not agree with the outgoing committee - at least they made the effort to attend the lunch and not abandon these life time members.

As for Stephen Day - did he not realise that he was not in the Houses of Parliament but and AGM of "Volunteers" and not paid employees (as the MP's are)? He acted like a typical MP that we see on the TV in the H's of P and nobody deserved to be on the end of his outbursts no matter which side you were supporting!

Well done, Owl Lady for starting this, I sincerely hope that the 'new' committee will read some of this and realise what a mess has been created and see how much work they have to do to build bridges with the same community they are supposed to be representing.

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 11:46 am

May Ijust say that my husband felt it was extremely discourteous that not one of the committee came into the Life Members lunch. He was going to write it, but asked me to write for him (he prefers reading the paper). It was his first time as a Life Members and also I believe for others, and it was as if they did not matter - not one bit. I think that perhaps all the new committee (except Prue of ocurse) could have come and said a word or to. 'Discourteous' is the only word I can use in print!

There are other issues which concern some of us concerning the new committee and their self appointed roles. But this is not the place to discuss them, but it does add a sense of disquiet to our hearts. Maybe it is best for those who feel a lack of confidence in the new committee to resign their membership. I never use the discount scheme, but I do enjoy meeting some of the nice folk who are members, but...... I also meet them at other organizations and functions, .

As my Aussie friends would say 'A bit of a curly one.'

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 12:14 pm

Ah Marions - as ever, wise and balanced counsel. However, resignation of membership plays into the hands of the new committee bullies, as to do so voids any mechanism to effect change. "If you ain't in, you cannot win", springs to mind! I was sorely tempted at 1230 Sat morning to do so though.

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 1:09 pm

Very true Tom. But if I want change and propose change, then those in charge are going to want to listen, digest what I (or anyone else says) and wish to implement changes.

I have always seen BRS as a social organization which was there for the members. Great idea, but I guess the other aspects of it have not appealed to me, but I appreciate for others there could be a great sense of loss if the identity of the society now changed again. I used to love some of the grand occasions, but life changes, and as I am now wed to a man who cannot dance (in fact has difficulty in sitting down), and who is squarer than a slice of bread, most functions are not for us.

I am sure the new committee will continue to have the same social events as before and they will be enjoyed by the many.

As an indiv idual, I am not happy being associated with any society that does not represent my values and interests. Selfish? Not really. Just practical. But the hurts of Saturday are almost unpardonable.

By next year they will be forgotten, but I wonder how the Minutes will read? (oops, I am the one that has to do them! Oh dear!

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 2:06 pm

Just out of interest as I am sure many would like to know, just how many of "The Whole Community" are the BRS alledgeing to represent?

terry2366 · Post by **terry2366** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 2:50 pm

I get the inpression that the new chairman famous and wonderful as I am sure he thinks he is it's more about promoting himself than doing a job. Come captain mannering .

Carbotec · Post by **Carbotec** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 3:00 pm

In answer to Waddo's question, msg91 The committee, The committee and The committee.

Mollie the cat · Post by **Mollie the cat** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 3:08 pm

Can anyone please confirm or otherwise please the mail address of Mr. Brown above. I tried to mail him but it cannot be delivered, (wrong mail address)

Mollie the cat · Post by **Mollie the cat** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 3:18 pm

Forget my last request, I put an extra . where it shouldn't have been.

Hutch · Post by **Hutch** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 4:58 pm

Check out the BRS website! http://www.brstrnc.com

If we can't contact them, how can they be answering the members queries? Or contacting the members!

Chairman has managed to delete the old committee and put in his details! Needs to update the responsibilities of the last committee quite quickly! Below!

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 5:27 pm

Carbotec, many thanks. Just so long as it is only the committee that the BRS represent and not me, I remain happy. I left UK because of politicians maintaining they represented me when they actually never asked me if they could!

me&him · Post by **me&him** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 6:53 pm

Does anyone know if someone is at Cafe George tomorrow? It used to be Wednesday. The page with the information of where you can find them comes up with a box saying page not found.

terry2366 · Post by **terry2366** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 7:35 pm

Sounds like a good start.

Carbotec · Post by **Carbotec** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 9:50 pm

I've been told that they won't be at cafe George as it's too common for the OLD GUARD BRS,!!!

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Tue 15 Apr 2014 10:42 pm

Come on - tell all. Who told you that?

It might be an idea to ask them via the web page as to whether they will continue there or at The Hut only. Of course there is nothing to stop you all gathering there anyway, and enjoying some pleasant sunshine and catch up on the local news (I nearly said 'gossip -' - )

Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Join us