Who Gave Them The Right

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Sat 31 May 2014 8:10 am

As you say, so many threads and aspects. Just as my early morning 'penny's worth'

1. Soner had already said about a poll, and he will draw up the wording. I think it is a matter of a straight yes or no to representation.

2. What other bodie.s What about other kibKomers who have lived abroad. Who represented you? I was abroad 'freelancing' so had no company to represent me (i.e. employer) and my 'support' was helpful locals who went with me to any department, or of course the B.H.C. Even when I lived in the south there was the U.K.C.A but they were more of a social club (and a good one) and that was before EU days. So maybe there cannot be a body who represents all, plus of course they have to be WELCOMED BY THE GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY.

3. Changes to residency/citizenship are, as has been said 'Proposals'. but proposals do happen, but then unfortunately can be changed by the next government. If you want to feel secure in a strange land you must be a citizen or just a happy risk taker. I don't think (mho) that any government has a responsibility towards those who choose to come and stay in their land. As they say in Australia - these are our rules, this is our God, this is our language - please stay and enjoy them, or LEAVE.

(Oh and I like Australia, and before anyone asks 'why don't you go back' , it is because I do not have sufficient money)

But as has been said this thread is whether the BRS has the right to assume that they represent ALL ex pats and in a sense how comfortable the ex pats feel about that. So, yes, a simple Yes/No vote on the matter, which I am sure Soner will set up soon (maybe even today, btu I know how busy he is) and I am sure it wil be a sticky, but we need to put a ti me limit on it too.

As I say, that is my penny's worth for the day, and now it is Support the Turtles time - who do THEY have to speak for them? Well, we all can, and I know they don't mind!

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Sat 31 May 2014 10:36 am

Tomsteel, it is not that I am so confident, it is more that I have learnt not to rely on institutions, society’s and body’s set up to assist their members and supporters. I tend to blunder my way through departments with a smile and a polite “sorry” not concerned with the time taken or the off handed manner adopted by Civil Servants – that is not a dig at Civil Servants, I was one myself for a number of years – lol. As to who would people wish to represent them, I agree that the voice of the public should be heard in that respect as well, but with care and in separate polls or we will lose the aim of this thread.

What will happen should we become a recognised country and enter in the EU? A lot depends on how we enter.
If it as a part of an existing country i.e. Cyprus, then the rules for working/residency/retirement etc are pretty much cast in stone – keep in mind this is the EU stone and is administered by that happy band of brothers of the MEP, so stone can easily become sponge should a member state whinge enough!
If the TRNC enters as a new member state then the rules are a little different and you can bet your boots that the RoC will invoke a similar set of rules for the TRNC as they have for Croatia, good information found here: (https://ec.europa.eu/eures/main.jsp?acr ... parentId=0)

Residency in “another” EU country has set rules as well: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/re ... dex_en.htm but they depend on the joining country accepting them upon the act of joining. A new member state has the right to postpone the residency rules under certain conditions, so again we are back to will the TRNC be and existing member or a new member state?

At present the entire Island is a single member state but the full rights of EU membership are held in abeyance for the TRNC due to it being an “occupied” territory and not being acknowledged by any other country bar Turkey.
In fact, using the second link above you should be able to get a good grasp of what “May” happen should the TRNC – at the culmination of the CYPROB talks – be recognised and give the full EU rights.

It is a bit of chicken and egg until there is a settlement (if that ever happens which in MHO I believe to be most doubtful).

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Sat 31 May 2014 10:36 am

To go back to the current residency problem within the TRNC, I am amazed that no representative body has ever simply approached the current government with the proposal that they simply adopt the residency method used in Turkey. It is already there, setup, working, in many languages, documentation ready to use, etc, etc. Why, when the TRNC, albeit reluctantly at times, follows the lead of Turkey in many things, do the TRNC once again feel the need to reinvent an already round and working wheel???

Warts and all?? Correct, it is home and of my choice, what is a wart or two compared to the peace that can be achieved here? I was once given this phrase, that you can adapt to almost any situation you find yourself in and it has served me well down the years: It’s a poor soldier that can’t stand the smell of his comrade’s breath!!!!!

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sat 31 May 2014 11:27 am

Ref msgs 51-53 above. Marion, I too have lived/worked in a number of 'foreign' countries and the UK FCO looked after my interests with local governmental dealings. Ergo, IMHO the BHC - being the 'official accredited UK body' here in the TRNC should perform a similar role. However, it chooses not do do - hence the vacuum exists, which the current BRC Committee has elected itself to fill. Please poll - its a no from me under the current regime of bully-boy tactics. Different committee, maybe a different decision from me.

waddo, as ever, you speak wise counsel. Why has the TRNC not been approached? Who should make the approach - BHC? Personally, I hope the TRNC/Turkey does not enter the EU and have to adopt the following nausea of bureaucratic nightmares that entails, albeit the universal health care would be welcome.

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Sat 31 May 2014 1:36 pm

Reading todays paper about permanent residency and or citizen ship with a ten year qualifying period quite a few of us will be dead before then! So they will get ten more years money from us.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Sat 31 May 2014 2:31 pm

A few years back a paper (or website) I forget which published a "test" which applicants had to pass before they were considered for BRITISH citizenship about the history, culture, customs and legislation of the UK. I think all of the native British readers admitted that the knew the answers to very few, if any, of the questions! Plus they had to take written and oral exams in the language of the counry (ie English). On that basis, I wonder how many expats would qualify for TRNC citizenship.

Mollie the cat · Post by **Mollie the cat** » Sat 31 May 2014 2:53 pm

And your point is????

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Sat 31 May 2014 4:06 pm

On the same basis, if you were required to take the UK driving test now, before you were allowed to drive in the UK on your next visit - how confident would you be with your 30 years+ driving experience behind you? Turkey used to require both written and oral exams in Turkish before residency was granted! At least if you wished to learn Turkish in Turkey it was all the same language. To learn Turkish in Cyprus and then pass exams here would be similar to learning English in a North Wales pub and taking the exam in a pub in Newcastle - the language is similar but not the same. How many would pass here, very few - could you take the exam in Greek or English, both of which are official languages in Cyprus?

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Sat 31 May 2014 8:24 pm

Mollie:: My point is perhaps we should think ourselves lucky the conditions arent more onerous - I certainly coundt pass an exam in Turkish, nor could I name all the current cabinet members of either the TRNC nor the UK!

Perhaps I was also trying to suggest one should have a little understanding of the country on choses to live in - it seems to me too many expats are trying to impose their own culture without consideration for those who prefer it (warts an all) as it was.

Waldo: More like learning English in New York and trying to speak it in your regional British pubs. I think the two languages have developed differences on similar lines. Though I have heard Cypriots claim theirs is in fact the purer language.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Sat 31 May 2014 8:45 pm

Tom Steel said "universal health care would be welcome" > it would be, perhaps literally, a life saver for some of us. But would we get it? The first line of Waddo's link (thanks Waddo) indicates permanent residence would be available for those who have lived there legally for five years. But the RoC consider us to be here illegally, so would we all go back down to snake to square 1, however long we had been here?

Someone mentioned "authority". In my view the authority that should be looking after my interests is that which took NI contributions off me during a long working life, and still takes a large slice of my pension, while denying me to right to vote or health care in the UK- ie HM Government at Westminster via their representative s the BHC..

As they wont - what have we left particularly if we cant agree among ourselves - divided we fall etc.

Sandman · Post by **Sandman** » Sat 31 May 2014 11:54 pm

Ragged Robin, a small number of brit expats - some of whom I have had the unfortunate experience of having to listen to in various restaurants and cafes over the years - expect everything to be just as they would expect at home ( except they were not happy there either for one reason or another) and have , to some extent spoilt the experience of going to Cyprus on holiday. They have all the answers but none of the solutions and I for one wish they would disappear up their own backsides where their heads seem to spend most of their time!!!!!

Deniz1 · Post by **Deniz1** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 5:00 am

Carbotec · Post by **Carbotec** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 6:19 am

Marion is Soner putting together the poll, I don't need one personally my answer is NO

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 9:24 am

Just a thought with the "Poll". I wondered if there should be an option to tick if you are already a BRS member or not - difficulty there is that some members may not want to admit they are members and that all existing BRS members (If we could ever find out the true number of them) should automatically be counted as YES votes anyway - you joined, you agree!!! Then again, it would be interesting if the option was available, just in case the odd BRS member ticked the NO box having already ticked the Member box....................

Bruiser · Post by **Bruiser** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 10:31 am

"For those of you that have been having a go at the BRS in recent weeks, just take stock and remember that over the past forty years there have been many people who have voluntarily sat on BRS committee's, each and everyone of them have been involved at some point in helping innumerable members and non members successfully negotiate problems that have cropped up during these times on Health, Property and Residency, amongst others.

By virtue of this it has given the BRS a wealth of experience in putting together guidelines for dealing with everyday living in the TRNC and is greatly appreciated by the many who have not got the time and patience to deal with the bureaucracy encountered on regular occasions.

Working through problems with various officials has allowed the BRS to build up confidences with administrators of various Government departments over the years which has culminated recently with the Interior ministry having enough respect for the BRS to offer them the chance, not only to view their new 'white card' proposals on Residency but seek their recommendations on any changes, something that will be of great benefit to all ex-patriates.

So when you're having a go at people who give up their time at their cost to help everyone, just be thankful there is someone making an effort on your behalf"

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 11:01 am

Good thought waddo. I am a member of BRS and would/will still vote NO under the present committee. It does not enjoy my trust after the AGM debacle.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 11:54 am

Bruiser, I am not "Having a go at the BRS". In fact if you will look at the title of this thread it is all about "Who gave the BRS the right to act on behalf of all expat's! If the BRS are happy to go to the Government - with their 40 years of experiance behind them - and state categorically that in their estimation, "Of the 15,000 expats who live in Northern Cyprus, their group of - lets be kind and say 1,500 or 10% - is in favour of an annual fee of 500TL for residency regardless of age", I feel sure the Government would be overjoyed with that!

The whole point of this thread is simple, the BRS is a self elected body that represents the members of its society ONLY!!! It has no right to represent those who do not belong to its society, no matter what good work it doe's.

laptatony · Post by **laptatony** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 12:10 pm

Well said Bruiser, excellent comments. Too many people think they can do better, but where are they when there is work to do!! How many put their names forward at the last AGM, mmmm don't seem to recognise any. We need a body who the Government recognise so let's get behind the BRS.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 1:04 pm

We are behind the BRS. We are not, however, in agreement with how the current committee elected itself after hijacking the 2014 AGM and has now chosen to 'represent' expats to the TRNC Government. We await the outcome of legal challenge.

laptatony · Post by **laptatony** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 1:36 pm

Hi Tom what was your name on the forms for people putting their names forward?

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 1:59 pm

My name is Tom Steel, what is yours?. However, having left the AGM early in total disgust at the takeover, I doubt my form had any relevance. I certainly did not vote for Mr Brown and certainly would never vote for Mr Day to represent me for anything.

laptatony · Post by **laptatony** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 2:02 pm

Hi tom, even with your full name I did not see your name put forward for the committee!!! Maybe you did not put your name forward.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 2:28 pm

You are correct, I do not want to serve on any committee: I am happily retired and past the 'beck and call' of others. The theme of this thread was never about who should/ should note volunteer for a position on the Committee, so why have you introduced it? I note also you did not answer my question.

silverfir · Post by **silverfir** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 2:59 pm

Bruiser. I totally agree with your comment. It`s alright some people saying `I can manage my own affairs with the bureaucracy`, but the fact is that no individual can have any sway with the government. An organised body is required to do this. I am not currently a member of the BRS, but I will be, because I feel that no matter who the present incumbents are, they do have some input/access to the people in authority.

I have been following this post with interest from the start and would like to say people`s opinions have been treated with respect. In years gone by on earlier forums this thread would have had to be closed. Thank you to all the contributors, you are a credit to the forum

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 3:33 pm

silverfir, The BRS is not the only organisation in contact with the TRNC Government. HBPG and MNCPB are but two others who are in contact with it - the degree of sway any of them holds is debatable, to put it mildly. That said, if you feel the BRS is right for you - sign up and good luck.

Carbotec · Post by **Carbotec** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 4:19 pm

laptatony wrote:Well said Bruiser, excellent comments. Too many people think they can do better, but where are they when there is work to do!! How many put their names forward at the last AGM, mmmm don't seem to recognise any. We need a body who the Government recognise so let's get behind the BRS.

You're dead right, too many people do believe the old committee was better and doing a fantastic job for the BRS members. I think and hope a lot of other BRS members will agree, that the comments you've made are ridiculous.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 4:32 pm

Tom, agreed. All, please do not let this thread stop you from joining or considering to join the BRS, that is not the intention. But please do be aware that the BRS will present their views and ideas to the government, without seeking your authority! As far as I can see the BRS is not the duly elected representative of the majority and therefore only has authority to put forward ideas and views of a minority, no matter how well meaning they may be. I often wonder if the BRS actually tell the government how many they do represent?

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 7:58 pm

Sandman wrote:Ragged Robin, a small number of brit expats - some of whom I have had the unfortunate experience of having to listen to in various restaurants and cafes over the years - expect everything to be just as they would expect at home ( except they were not happy there either for one reason or another) and have , to some extent spoilt the experience of going to Cyprus on holiday. They have all the answers but none of the solutions and I for one wish they would disappear up their own backsides where their heads seem to spend most of their time!!!!!

I am sorry to learn that it is spoiling your holiday experience, Sandman. So just think what it does for those of us who live here all the time, and for the reputation of the British here! Of course the country has faults (not all of its own making) and constructive criticism can be - well constructive. But constant insults (often accompanied by bad language) to the local population are creating a bad atmosphere. I have had a lot of problems here, but the majority have been caused either by the attitude of the British Govt. to expats in general and the TRNC inparticular, or by rogue Brits taking advantage of the perceived comparatively laxity in certain areas of the law.

The strength of demand for the British way of life is also undermining the environment and culture, and, to get back on topic, one of the reasons for disillusion with the BRS as it is nowis they appear to be supporting, rather than discouraging , this trend.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 8:03 pm

I wonder if tom steel - or anyone else - had volunteered for the Committee, how many votes they would have got? My impression is that there was considerable competition for the kudos of being on the BRS Cttee and any newcomer without a strong band of supporters would have stood the traditional snowball's chance in you know where are being elected?

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Sun 01 Jun 2014 8:12 pm

Perhaps the solution to the BRS is for them at the next election to arrange for all candidates to put their "manifesto" on a part of the website available to all stating their interests, experience and what issues they intended to tackle. It might actual get more members as people would join to be able to vote for those tackling issues that concerned them - or against as the case might be,

The BRS really ought also to do their own poll available to non members to enable them to assess the nature of the current population and their concerns. I suspect at the moment they are only tackling issues of those who can shout loudest.

terry2366 · Post by **terry2366** » Mon 02 Jun 2014 2:28 pm

Ragged Robin just to put you in the picture about the vote I believe there were 311 attended the AGM but after the very well organised upheaval most had left. When the vote was taken even though the previous committee had handed over there were in the region of 30 people left so they picked and voted for themselves . Pictures available on request!.
The only ones left where the ones who organised the fiasco. They now represent us all!!

Carbotec · Post by **Carbotec** » Tue 03 Jun 2014 6:12 am

terry2366 wrote:Ragged Robin just to put you in the picture about the vote I believe there were 311 attended the AGM but after the very well organised upheaval most had left. When the vote was taken even though the previous committee had handed over there were in the region of 30 people left so they picked and voted for themselves . Pictures available on request!.
The only ones left where the ones who organised the fiasco. They now represent us all!!

If these figures are correct? This would make the existing committee null and void as the numbers present when they voted their selves in do not constitute a quorum.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Tue 03 Jun 2014 11:44 am

I note the "poll" is now open! With 114 views and only 28 actual votes, I must assume that 86 people could care less about the representation to government or who is representing whom and for what. Empathy rules, maybe.

SourBrandy · Post by **SourBrandy** » Tue 03 Jun 2014 3:07 pm

As an ex-BRS Comm member from a few years ago, I can't comment on the current or past few years' committee, but I do know that we all put an enormous amount of time into trying to express the views, needs and wishes of not just the British but all the ex-pat community here in the TRNC. I don't know what went on at this year's AGM, I wasn't there, but there seems to be an awful lot of needless nastiness going on but to what end? That's what I can't understand. As I understand it, the BRS is one of the only ex-pat bodies that is recognised by the TRNC Government and they do work tirelessly for everybody concerned to express their concerns and worries to the powers that be that can make our lives as visitors and guests in this country more of a pleasure than it already is.

There may be some egos having a play but doesn't that happen in every walk of life. What matters is that the BRS continues to work at making our lives integrate with those of the TRNC people. IMHO???

Philoz · Post by **Philoz** » Tue 03 Jun 2014 5:21 pm

Waddo -Re the poll,I am a BRS member and joined thinking it would be a line of support if I ever ran into problems here,i.e. medical or legal.I didn't go to the AGM as I didn't know any of the 'personalities'.

But from everything I have heard(from those who did attend) and read in the numerous threads on here, the current set up is an undemocratic shambles.

Which brings me to the poll.

I looked at the options,but the one I wanted wasn't there-what I would vote for is:-'Do you want the BRS ,under new management, to represent you in the TRNC'.

By voting yes for the offered option of -'Do you want the BRS to represent you in the TRNC' implies I am in support of the current regime,and I am not,and from previous posts on the subject I suggest I am not alone.

silverfir · Post by **silverfir** » Tue 03 Jun 2014 5:54 pm

Waddo. Since I went into the poll to register my choice I have been back in to see what progress is being made. Presumably each time I have a look in, my viewing is recorded as a `hit`. If other people are doing this then perhaps apathy doesn`t rule, but I am of the opinion that this poll will not prove anything in the final analysis and the statistitions among us will be able to manipulate the figures to support their point of view.

mickhm · Post by **mickhm** » Tue 03 Jun 2014 6:22 pm

Well said Philoz That is what I would have voted for

terry2366 · Post by **terry2366** » Tue 03 Jun 2014 6:57 pm

Me too but should not be difficult to change it or add to it
I would be interested to know how the votes that were taken at the AGM came out too? Anyone?

Philoz · Post by **Philoz** » Tue 03 Jun 2014 7:08 pm

Maybe the inclusion of the 'BRS under new management'as a question would be a fair option as all the heated debates have not been against the BRS as an organisation per se, more so against the way the recent AGM was railroaded,and the ones that did the railroading?

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Tue 03 Jun 2014 8:02 pm

Statistics are like bikinis, what they reveal is important, but what they conceal is vital. I havent voted in this poll because non of the options represent my views

As an ex ordinary member of BRS I remember some AGMs where feelings ran high, but never to the point of heckling or personal abuse, or doubt as to the democracy of the Vote.

I feel sorry for the older Committee members who must be feeling sad the organisation they worked so hard to build up come to this pass.

,

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Tue 03 Jun 2014 8:04 pm

Sorry to avoid confused I should have said "ex Committee members" in last para above.

Carbotec · Post by **Carbotec** » Wed 04 Jun 2014 5:33 am

Phil totally agree, I also voted but not for the correct reason. Soner an other option needs to be inserted.

Do you want to be represented by the current committee, Yes or No

carrierbag · Post by **carrierbag** » Wed 04 Jun 2014 7:21 am

Carbotec are you on the current BRS committee? Do you belong to the BRS? Have you ever represented anyone in the TRNC to the TRNC government? Just wondering.

silverfir · Post by **silverfir** » Wed 04 Jun 2014 9:54 am

The poll is not about the personalities on the current BRS committee. It is about whether you think you should be represented by an organisation of which you are/are not a member and may/may not agree with what they are proposing to the government on your behalf.

I am not currently a member of the BRS, but I feel their liaison with TRNC officials are positive and are likely to be to my benefit in the future. Just my humble opinion, you understand.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 04 Jun 2014 11:27 am

silverfir, I am also not a member but I note that you feel "their liaison with TRNC officials are positive and are likely to be to my benefit in the future".

Would you like to say just what it is the BRS are liaising with TRNC officials about? In fact would any member like to tell us "Exactly" what it is you have voted for, to allow your BRS Committee to liaise with the TRNC officials about?

This is the whole point - I do not wish the BRS to liaise with the TRNC officials, on my behalf, over things they are not willing to make public first!!!! How would they know if their "minority" wish was in my best interest unless they asked?

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Wed 04 Jun 2014 11:46 am

Ref msg 95 above - hooray. Whilst I am a BRS member, I voted no for 2 reasons. The current self-elected, egotistical committee who hijacked the 2014 AGM and, more importantly, I know not what they are suggesting/proposing/offering, nor what the TRNC are prepared to debate. Property scams, probably not - too much nepotism involved, judicial bias against expats, probably not - too much nepotism involved, advocats' negligence, probably not - too much nepotism involved, Kibtec deposit and TRNC Government Driving Licencing discrimination against expats, etc etc. Just what issues are on the Agenda - give us disclosure. Residency is really not a big issues in the bigger 'rip-off, cash-cow' scheme of things.

Carbotec · Post by **Carbotec** » Thu 05 Jun 2014 5:52 am

carrierbag wrote:Carbotec are you on the current BRS committee? Do you belong to the BRS? Have you ever represented anyone in the TRNC to the TRNC government? Just wondering.

What has that got to do with it?

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Fri 06 Jun 2014 3:40 pm

I am not a member of the BRS. I did try many years ago but as we are not permanently resident, we were refused membership.

I am truly disappointed however, at the really negative unnecessary sniping at the BRS and those who are attempting to make life better for expats here. I have found in the past that those who criticise the most do the least especially in the internet troll age; those who have the time and energy to sit on their computers criticising others but don't have the time and the energy to get up and do something about the issues.

I will ignore the issue over the AGM but concentrate on what the BRS has or is attempting to achieve. If they or the HBPG et al do succeed in getting any improvement for non citizens like me then well done to them. What are the 'they don't represent me' brigade doing to improve life here?

I also hate to be cynical (which means I will be) but the improvement of 'guests' lives/rights in the TRNC is not something that really troubles the local politicians. Whats in it for them?

In the meantime good luck to whoever can improve our position/lives/rights in the TRNC. You have my support.

silverfir · Post by **silverfir** » Fri 06 Jun 2014 5:16 pm

Hector. I applaud you

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Sat 07 Jun 2014 6:03 am

Hector, Good for you, another different view but sadly from a non permanent resident who comes and goes and choses between countries to live in. Were you a permanent resident here you may not wish to be represented by a very much minority group, who do not even have the courtesty to inform the majority what representation they are giving!

Assuming that your permanent location is the UK and that you have a seperate base in the TRNC I have two questions for you then:

Do you vote for your choice of representative party in the UK National or By Elections?

Have you any idea just how many other groups - that assist the TRNC and its people - exist in the TRNC?

To clarify the second question, have you ever heard of the CESV for instance? There is much more to living here than visiting but to understand that, you have to do it.

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