'Swallow'

journey1 · Post by **journey1** » Sat 07 Jun 2014 5:32 pm

I have been here for 12 years and yes I do not live here but I did build a house here, pay all the dues etc . However recently I have been, face to face, described as a 'swallow'. Now some may find that Ok but for me I feel it is offensive, as if I am some sort of second class British person within the British community! Infact, recently I was described as 'just a swallow'!!(' as if I could not possibly understand what was going on locally, despite my educational or language capabilities!)
I am not that person, believe me! So please, if you ever meet me or one other who chooses not to live here but comes and goes to suit our lives, our choice, let us live it, without a denegrating name-tag being attached to us!
thanks

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Sat 07 Jun 2014 5:51 pm

"12 years" me too, I think we deserve a medal the size of a dustbin lid or are we just stupid ?

Mollie the cat · Post by **Mollie the cat** » Sat 07 Jun 2014 6:08 pm

Here is my take on it. People who have a "holiday home" here sometimes come on this forum preaching to full time residents how we should appreciate living here, and if you don't like it go back home. Those kind of comments are not very helpful.

I still maintain it is totally different actually living here warts and all, to coming and going. I agree that residents who want a " little England" here are living in cuckoo land. We live in a typical Turkish Cypriot village and try where we can to integrate with the local community.

I have nothing against swallows at all, in fact some of our friends come and go, its personal choice.

journey1 · Post by **journey1** » Sat 07 Jun 2014 6:45 pm

Mollie the cat wrote:Here is my take on it. People who have a "holiday home" here sometimes come on this forum preaching to full time residents how we should appreciate living here, and if you don't like it go back home. Those kind of comments are not very helpful.

I still maintain it is totally different actually living here warts and all, to coming and going. I agree that residents who want a " little England" here are living in cuckoo land. We live in a typical Turkish Cypriot village and try where we can to integrate with the local community.

I have nothing against swallows at all, in fact some of our friends come and go, its personal choice.

I actually don't think of my home here as a 'holiday home' - its just an extension of my life - my choice. I never have 'preached at anyone about appreciation'! We have always tried to learn the local language and integrate.
Due to my life I have lived and worked in many places in this wee world - but its only here I have ever heard of the local British community applying such a denigrating meaning to folks and families like my own who traverse this world yet still have a home here and other places in the world. Are we not all trying to enjoying what we have here? Why has there to be some sort of hierarchy ? Its all so silly when you look at the big picture.

Philoz · Post by **Philoz** » Sat 07 Jun 2014 7:15 pm

I don't see the cause to take offense at being called a Swallow,and don't consider it to be a derisory term at all, after all a swallow is a beautiful bird that moves from one country to another to get the best of both climates-the comparison fits perfectly.
I spent a lot of time in Canada,and retirees who spent the cold Canadian winters in places like Mexico were referred to as 'Snow birds'-again a perfect analogy,and I never came across anyone there that took offense at the moniker.
I live here full time and am referred to as an 'Ex-Pat'-so what, no offense taken on my part.
I think some folk are being a little over sensitive.

Robert The Bruce · Post by **Robert The Bruce** » Sat 07 Jun 2014 7:27 pm

Mollie The Cat

How right you are in the opening of your post. I was recently told on here " not to dictate how someone should feel about TRNC" for making exactly the same comment as you. It was also a Moderator on here.Made me laugh somewhat at the self rightousness !!!!!

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Sat 07 Jun 2014 8:18 pm

My in-laws lived in Anglesey (island of the coast of N Wales) ALL summer visitors were referred to as swallows, probably still are!!!

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Sat 07 Jun 2014 8:28 pm

It is the first time I have heard anyone object to the term "swallow" - I have several friends who use it of themselves, one, indeed, was particularly flattered to be likened to this lovely bird, the harbinger of summer. Its simply a way of distinquishing between ways of life of part timers or holiday homers (surely less attractive terms) and "Ancient Brits" (long term full time residents) on the one hand, and tourists on the other. Different lifestyles, different expectations.

Obviously most of those who live here full time, use (and pay for) local medical facilites, support local enterprise, tough it out during the very hot dry summer months and cold, wet winter (power cuts included) and, especially, live among Cypriots rather than in mainly expat housing estates, have different experiences , and maybe dont have the resources to visit the UK frequently and stock up on "goodies" from UK shops, have different views and needs.

But its the people, whether full or part time who dont bother to learn the history of the country and appreciate its difficulties , despise its culture and traditions, overstress the services and ruin the countryside by demanding a UK type lifestyle and upset the locals by constant moaning and carping who spoil it for others whatever their residency status.

Owning property in another country - even if you sometimes use it yourself and pay taxes on - does not necessarily mean residence - ask the British Inland Revenue!!!!

cracker · Post by **cracker** » Sat 07 Jun 2014 9:40 pm

Well said Ragged Robin. !!!!

Get sick to death of brits moaning about nothing.
What else do swallows do but come and go !!!
As said in an earlier post,,,we also have friends who call themselves swallows.

dani · Post by **dani** » Sun 08 Jun 2014 9:17 am

I think it is a lovely way to describe our friends who come and go. I would go one stage further and mention the 'Painted Swallow'. These are also to be seen at certain times of the year. Very similar to the usual Swallow but with white (paint) markings
I do not see these exquisite creatures as lesser beings, just as welcome visitors who follow the sun and, if you are very lucky, bring UK treats with them.

Lottidotti · Post by **Lottidotti** » Sun 08 Jun 2014 10:02 am

Hi,can somebody explain what the definition of a swallow is.

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Sun 08 Jun 2014 10:06 am

Robert The Bruce wrote:Mollie The Cat

How right you are in the opening of your post. I was recently told on here " not to dictate how someone should feel about TRNC" for making exactly the same comment as you. It was also a Moderator on here.Made me laugh somewhat at the self rightousness !!!!!

Please re-read what I posted. Unfortunately your response to my original posting was somewhat assertive, despite the fact that you knew nothing about our experiences or our life on this island.

As another poster has mentioned, our life in North Cyprus is just and extension of our life at home and we see the place as home each and everytime we return. After having worked, lived and holidayed on the island totalling many years since the 1970s we feel we understand the people, history, culture and also the odd difficulty when living out here. There is nothing self righteous in my posting but merely to hopefully make you understand that some of us do have a great deal of life experience living out in Cyprus.

There are a great many people who have made a good life for themselves and adapted but there is a minority who IMO could be in any hot country who have no understanding of the history, culture or people and feel they know better than others.

Personally we are here because we love the place and like you want to enjoy it as much as possible.

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Sun 08 Jun 2014 10:10 am

Lottidotti wrote:Hi,can somebody explain what the definition of a swallow is.

In the UK swallows leave as winter approaches and fly off to warmer countries. As spring ends and summer returns to the UK so the swallows fly back to make their nests and rear their young.

Hence the term swallows ro describe people who may not spend all there time in the same place.

I think swallows have a lovely lifestyle enjoying the sunshine as much as they can!

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Sun 08 Jun 2014 10:22 am

Nice description PoshinDevon, I presume you have arrived full time now? Welcome to the permanent mad house, which I wouldn't change in a thousand years, warts and all. Now you daren't go back for fear of becoming a "swallow"

woodspeckie · Post by **woodspeckie** » Sun 08 Jun 2014 11:10 am

Am I a Swallow? I go to North Cyprus middle of December and return to the UK early March 89 days before my visa expires, if I am classed as a Swallow suits me fine.

frontalman · Post by **frontalman** » Sun 08 Jun 2014 11:11 am

We are sparrows, we came, liked it and stayed.

Hector · Post by **Hector** » Sun 08 Jun 2014 11:14 am

"But its the people, whether full or part time who dont bother to learn the history of the country and appreciate its difficulties , despise its culture and traditions, overstress the services and ruin the countryside by demanding a UK type lifestyle and upset the locals by constant moaning and carping who spoil it for others whatever their residency status."

Nothing quite like a sweeping generalisation to prove ones argument.

I being a 'swallow' (and I accept the term but not the negative implication) have experienced the racism it provokes (see comment above), by having the temerity to comment on another topic see 'Who gave then the right'.

Robert The Bruce · Post by **Robert The Bruce** » Sun 08 Jun 2014 11:32 am

Quite correct Hector. We have lived here many years full-time and have very few English friends here. Around 80% of our friends are TC's and you should hear them moan about this place.!!!!
Complaining about the mounds of rubble and litter dumped everywhere to the detriment of the once wonderful countryside isnt whingeing or carping in my opinion. A TC friend of mine was involved in the clean up last week at Girne Harbour. Her comments about the people just dropping their litter WHILST she was collecting up others rubbish couldnt be printed on here as i ould be banned..Complaining about how much things have changed here, mostly for the worst, doesn't mean that you want it to turn into "little Britain" either as some fatuous comments try to imply.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Sun 08 Jun 2014 12:06 pm

I do hope that like me you are also not a Yorkshireman, who is very close to being a Geordie and also and ex Crab but now simply an ExPat - it would drive you crazy if the term "Swallow" hurts you so much.

Be proud of your "Swallowship", there are many here who would wish they could be the same but for many reasons have ended up "flightless" and "grounded" in a foreign land. I am happy to say I am not one of them and have become a permanent fixture by choice and not circumstance.

Lottidotti · Post by **Lottidotti** » Sun 08 Jun 2014 12:22 pm

If I live in the UK and visit friends/family in Australia for three months a year or have three / four holidays a year does that make me a swallow in the UK to other people.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sun 08 Jun 2014 12:47 pm

What is in a semantic? Just enjoy what the TRNC has to offer and life in general here - or anywhere come to that. Off to the pool - enjoy!

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Sun 08 Jun 2014 2:27 pm

If it is any comfort to the migratory humans, there is folklore that says the Prophet Mohamed forbade the killing and eating of swallows!

If you have ever lived in a house where swallows chose to nest over your patio, or even as happened to me once, get one trapped in your house, you will realise that killing them is a temptation - their droppings make the most awful mess. Perhaps there is a moral there: some long term residents might find it difficult not to resent newcomers, particularly swallows, who build (or cause to be built) multiple nests that spoil their simple pleasures by blocking their views, and access to the sea, invading their privacy, covering their favourite walks with concrete destroying wildlife and bird habitats and flowers, and make excessive demands on the county's limited water and electricity and imported goods in their demands of facilities for their own more sophisticated "enjoyment "

Swallows and martins are migratory birds here, too, by the way. Perhaps we should all joint "KUŞKOR'"and learn more about the bırds of Cyprus

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Sun 08 Jun 2014 2:30 pm

But for those who are of my generation and brought up on Arthur Ransome books, a "Swallow" is a sailing dinghy manned by four intrepid and adventurous children, in competition with two little girls in "Amazon"!

geroff · Post by **geroff** » Sun 08 Jun 2014 7:54 pm

well think yourselves lucky to be called a beautiful swallow, you could have been called a cuckoo who just visits and kicks out its occupants. think the greek cypriots might call you this though.

fatouche · Post by **fatouche** » Mon 09 Jun 2014 6:51 am

This is my very simple view on any type of labelling; that's all it is, just a label. If you don't like it, just discard it.....

Angiebaby · Post by **Angiebaby** » Mon 09 Jun 2014 10:29 am

I do not understand how one coud be offeneded by this expression. Prior to us residing here we in fact called ourselves Swallows, like many other people. We have many friends whom refer to their selves as Swallows.
One of the most beautiful birds, and delightful to watch. You say you where called it to your face , or words to that effect. I am sure the person who said this was not being offensive in anyway.

Chill and enjoy our lives here. I would rather be called a Swallow than an Ex Pat.

Robert The Bruce · Post by **Robert The Bruce** » Mon 09 Jun 2014 3:51 pm

[Posh In Devon

Not looking to get into an issue here but on the thread mentioned by you above you quoted

" perhaps those that find they dislike it here so much should move on"

.
You further quoted
" please do not tell me how I should feel about North Cyprus"

Perhaps you need to remember better your own comments on here

barrysnakes · Post by **barrysnakes** » Mon 09 Jun 2014 7:34 pm

Robert the Bruce do you not think you are being a little "petty" about Posh's quotes ????

journey1 · Post by **journey1** » Mon 09 Jun 2014 9:08 pm

I refer to my original post - I found being described as 'just a swallow ' as, being offensive to me as an individual.
I was merely posting on the forum as described in the rules as an access to use the freedom of speech within an acceptable environment.
A few of the responding posts were sent in a positive way but many made stereotypical assumptions and were somewhat defensive.
Thanks for all the debate - but I am not a bird , nor do I wish to be described as one albeit as beautiful or lacking.

Sandman · Post by **Sandman** » Tue 10 Jun 2014 12:05 am

There's nowt as queer as folk - particularly brits abroad !!! You lot could start an argument in an empty room !!! Reminiscent of cyprus 44.

Kavenkoy · Post by **Kavenkoy** » Tue 10 Jun 2014 4:28 am

All read message 30 ,well said sandman .

I have been reading this as I do t look in much and laughed .

I bought there in 2005 off plan ,luck enough to have enjoyed and the place When I should be enjoying it my circumstances changed and we had to sell 2 years ago .
Regret it every day and do so wish I didn't have to ,but that's life .

We now only visit very once or twice a year if lucky ,we are over next year in August and looking forward to it so much .

So what does that make me ????
A fed up Brit sat in UK with it raining and wishing I was there .
You could call me sparrow ,robin red breast ,swallow,albatross,or Harry the hawk as long as I was sat there and had a relaxing life with a climate to die for and a cold efes .

Get a life's one thing ,but you've have to live it to appreciate it .

Kav

Robert The Bruce · Post by **Robert The Bruce** » Tue 10 Jun 2014 8:40 am

Barrysnakes

Not at all. I made some comments that were jumped on . and simply pointed that out.

owl · Post by **owl** » Tue 10 Jun 2014 11:27 am

To avoid this situation becoming a problem, myself and friends have elected ourselves as President, Chairperson and Committee of a new group.

Our first AGM was last week.

We represent you ALL,... whether you like it or not!

We are the 'British Residents & Swallows'

'BRS'

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Tue 10 Jun 2014 11:44 am

Can it include Owls, please?

owl · Post by **owl** » Tue 10 Jun 2014 1:45 pm

Owl Lady

You're more than welcome!

I'll see you after dark,... unless it's 'too wet to woo',....

Owl

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Tue 10 Jun 2014 2:15 pm

Could always call them British Residents and"Swallowls"

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Tue 10 Jun 2014 2:17 pm

Kavenkoy, remember I am ex forces so already have a strange sence of humour - therefore forgive me and imagine the grin on my face when I figure out you are none of the above - now relegated to the term of "Damn Tourist"!!!

Welcome back anytime you can make it, only wish you could have stayed and enjoyed the life full time - but there are always twists and turns in the unexpected path. Like the man said - In theory, practise works, in practise, theory dos'nt!!

Have a great life out there and enjoy the posts, lots of which (like this) are tounge in cheek anyway.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Tue 10 Jun 2014 2:38 pm

Kavenkoy : I think you must be a Salamander or Pheonix (creatures traditionally associated with fire or sun) if you look forward to Cyprus in August. Most Swallows fly away for the hottest of the months, and even long term, full time residents who love the country and locals try to turn into summer hibernators . Enjoy anyway!

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Tue 10 Jun 2014 2:54 pm

Robert The Bruce wrote:[Posh In Devon

Not looking to get into an issue here but on the thread mentioned by you above you quoted

" perhaps those that find they dislike it here so much should move on"

.
You further quoted
" please do not tell me how I should feel about North Cyprus"

Perhaps you need to remember better your own comments on here

You will note that in your earlier post you mentioned that you said it was a "moderator" who said "do not dictate to me howI should feel about North Cyprus"

Firstly yes I am a moderator on the forum, however your postings have not been moderated by me and my response was as a member of the forum not as a moderator, so not sure your reason for mentioning it.

For those that may dislike N Cyprus so much I still say life is to short to moan about it and my advice would be that if at all possible move on. Either by trying not to get drawn down by the small challenges of living out here or if it really is that bad then perphaps the time is right to consider other options.

These are just my thoughts as a Kibkom member and providing my postings confirm to the forum rules they can be posted. We obviously disagree on certain things, I suggest if you wish to continue your discussion on my postings or status as a moderator you PM me direct as I suggested earlier rather than on an open forum where it is of little interest to others. I will of course now refrain from replying to any comments that you may post on the forum.

Kavenkoy · Post by **Kavenkoy** » Tue 10 Jun 2014 5:35 pm

waddo wrote:Kavenkoy, remember I am ex forces so already have a strange sence of humour - therefore forgive me and imagine the grin on my face when I figure out you are none of the above - now relegated to the term of "Damn Tourist"!!!

Welcome back anytime you can make it, only wish you could have stayed and enjoyed the life full time - but there are always twists and turns in the unexpected path. Like the man said - In theory, practise works, in practise, theory dos'nt!!

Have a great life out there and enjoy the posts, lots of which (like this) are tounge in cheek anyway.

Waddo a sick sense of humour is sometimes al that matter ,
I enjoy coming over in November say and just walking around .

Take care

Kav

Kavenkoy · Post by **Kavenkoy** » Tue 10 Jun 2014 5:36 pm

Ragged Robin wrote:Kavenkoy : I think you must be a Salamander or Pheonix (creatures traditionally associated with fire or sun) if you look forward to Cyprus in August. Most Swallows fly away for the hottest of the months, and even long term, full time residents who love the country and locals try to turn into summer hibernators . Enjoy anyway!

Well RR I've been called something lol most we could not repeat .

Yep I will have that Kav the salamander ,dear me the original poster will be chewing next doors grass being labelled that lol
Sorry original poster

Kav

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Tue 10 Jun 2014 7:19 pm

It could be worse:

In Dorset (and according to Wilki) most of South England, tourists are called "Grockles".

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Wed 11 Jun 2014 6:33 am

What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;

I guess it's a matter of context... my friends might call me a 'daft bugger' with a wink and a smile and I wouldn't take offence but it's different when the phrase is aimed to belittle... I have met many people who declare themselves 'swallows' in reference to their habit of visiting Cyprus in spring and autumn... they obviously are not offended by the phrase...

I do object to being dismissed as not worthy of an opinion on Cyprus and its issues because I'm not TC... I think that's more offensive.

Grockle · Post by **Grockle** » Sat 28 Jun 2014 9:27 am

Nothing wrong with being called a Grockle, RR!

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Sat 28 Jun 2014 2:57 pm

Oops, Sorry didnt notice you there Grockle!

But matter of interest, why did you chose that name? Have you seen what they say about them on Wilkie?

Grockle · Post by **Grockle** » Sat 28 Jun 2014 10:37 pm

I worked at Exeter Airport about 10 years ago, so got to hear of the term then.
Didn't realise the origin was offensive, but having lived there for nearly a year you realise that the tourists are a pain!

I chose the name in the spur of the moment, thinking I could change it at a later date but, alas, no!

I too have been on the receiving end of a snobby comment from an expat in the TRNC and I knew the guy as well!
I was chatting to someone and he chirps up with "Don't bother speaking to him - he's just a swallow". Charming!

Chrispyb · Post by **Chrispyb** » Sun 29 Jun 2014 4:44 am

Grockle chirps up (I like it)

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Sun 29 Jun 2014 8:16 pm

Actually so do I, though I doubt I would have the nerve to use it: I didnt really see all the adverse implications until I checked that my memory of the name was correct in Wilki.

Grockle - without knowing the circs and personalities the comment you were subject to seems simply ill mannered and perhaps says more about the person who made it than the category of resident/visitor he belonged to.

And dont forget experienced long standing full time expats who have been there, done that and got the T Shirt (as well as being termed "Ancient Brits") often suffer from ill mannered and ill informed swallows who lay down the law down and lecture on how things should be done to suit their particular way of life. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but sometimes it can be very frustrating when you have encountered and coped with a particular problem or situation many times and understand the underlying causes (or at least come to terms with living in a country with special problems) to be shouted down by someone who hasnt bothered or simply hasnt been here long enough to appreciate the ramifications. As a very simple and hopefully non controversial example you cannot really appreciate the climate here and the problems of location, heating and ventilation of houses if you havent suffered the cold and damp in January and February or the extreme heat of July and August.

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