Dogs taken to be dumped

sophie · Post by **sophie** » Sun 20 Jul 2014 6:07 pm

It has been revealed today that 3 or 4 weeks ago the Girne Belediye rounded up 9 or 10
dogs from the centre of the town (at night) and took them to the Dikmen dump. Amongst these dogs were KAR tagged dogs. Imagine Hell and double it, then you will understand Dikmen. It has not been possible as yet to ascertain if the dogs were euthanized beforehand. Pray that they were. It is understood that dogs dumped by locals and municipalities resort to cannibalism or die of starvation or disease.

For those who write on this forum that "something must be done", well now it has.

Please note that tagged dogs are under the protection of KAR and as such if anyone sees or suspects that dogs (tagged or otherwise) are disappearing suddenly from your neighbourhood, please contact KAR immediately.

Brighton Dot · Post by **Brighton Dot** » Sun 20 Jul 2014 6:19 pm

Words fail me....it's things like this which really make me question why I am here. This is no answer to the problem.

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Sun 20 Jul 2014 6:27 pm

Recently there were 5 dogs untagged down the harbour. I have not seen any of them for over a week!!!I have e-mailed KAR tonight.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sun 20 Jul 2014 6:59 pm

Has anybody who is involved in this, (a) asked the new Mayor the policy and/or (b) contacted the Police for an investigation to proceed under the animal cruelty legislation? If not, bleating on this forum is just, 'venting spleens'.

sophie · Post by **sophie** » Sun 20 Jul 2014 7:31 pm

Not bleating TS and Yes the new Mayor will be contacted. This thread for information only.

Panchocat · Post by **Panchocat** » Sun 20 Jul 2014 8:08 pm

I missed the old Black and Tan bitch in town last time I was there. She was looked after by the cafe at the Round Tower. I hope to God she wasn't one of them. Feel sick at the whole way this was done.

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Sun 20 Jul 2014 8:24 pm

Tomsteel ,do you honestly think contacting the "New Mayor" or the "police" is going to make the slightest bit of difference??? We are not" bleating," only concerned animal lovers who feel completely helpless to do anything here!! If we dare to complain, we will only be given the usual North Cyprus Shrug!!!!

snd1966 · Post by **snd1966** » Sun 20 Jul 2014 9:09 pm

confused - title is dumped, were the dogs placed at dikmen alive or their carcasses dumped? I assume whatever happened it is now just the carcase there.
typical they pick up the easier dogs first which have been there for a long time and adjusted to life on the streets.

Panchocat · Post by **Panchocat** » Sun 20 Jul 2014 9:28 pm

Sand1966 yes awful as these people friendly dogs would not have given them any trouble to catch as they were so trusting.
Mustie, of Street Dogs of Kyrenia, do you know anything about this? Were any of your usual ones missing when you were over last week?
Was this done by the old mayor in the run up to elections? If so glad he has been replaced.

JoandJelly · Post by **JoandJelly** » Sun 20 Jul 2014 11:09 pm

I drove through the high street yesterday and was in Kyrenia today and all the "usual suspects" were in attendance.

bigbadbob · Post by **bigbadbob** » Mon 21 Jul 2014 7:03 am

My other half and I were in town on Saturday and it was obvious there were none of the usual dogs around. We went for a meal and drink at Café George, only Bonny and one other dog was there. We asked questions and were told it was one of the policies promised by candidates in elections for a new Mayor to clear the streets of dogs, KAR ones included to gain votes from locals who were complaining of the numbers.
The new mayor supposedly is one of the candidates who promised this!
George politely told them to leave Bonny and the other dog who he cares for alone!!!
If KAR continue to put back dogs in the town, is this going to keep on happening to them? They are such friendly, trusting dogs and this is such a cruel ending for them.
We believe also that our local Belediyesi have had a round up, the lack of any street dogs in our area is so noticeable.
To humanely put a dog to sleep under the right circumstances and conditions, we are not against but to have these poor dogs poisoned, darted or worse ! Questions need to be asked for the dogs sake!!!!!

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Mon 21 Jul 2014 7:27 am

As I have just posted Bob, do you think the "new Mayor" or police will give any answers??

bigbadbob · Post by **bigbadbob** » Mon 21 Jul 2014 7:44 am

Owl lady, as you well know of our recent experience with the police over helping a dog, honestly do not think they would want to know or do anything about it even if they were involved.
The mayor and his council, maybe amongst them KAR could find someone sympathetic towards the dogs and who would be their voice?
You have been here far longer than us, we bow to your knowledge Oh! Wise Owl! XXX

Lor51 · Post by **Lor51** » Mon 21 Jul 2014 7:51 am

Several complaints in my street about a tagged dogged were made to the Catalkoy Belediyesi, twice they came to my home (as I was the one taking care of her) and they asked me to catch her, put her on a lead, tie her to my fence and ring a number they gave me. I said to them that if I did this what would they do with the dog , and they said move her on, when I said you will shoot her they said that they are not allowed. I didn't do as they asked, my friend called Kar and informed them what had happened, she passed on the phone number and the dogs tag number. The complainers must have been overjoyed when we had to put her to sleep through illness. The vet came to the house to put her to sleep, he then said he makes a call to the belediyesi to come and collect the body from his surgery.
I didn't realise that the dogs bodies are taken to a dump, for some reason I thought that they would be cremated. If I had known that they were just dumped I would've buried Mrs Brown in my garden.
I am horrified to think that because of elections dogs have to die, humanely or otherwise. There is a problem, we all know that, but tagged dogs are not aggressive at least I have never come across one that is and should not be targeted. The people that breed and dump, the hunters that dump, the expats that leave and dump, these are the people that should be rounded up and dumped imho

Lor51 · Post by **Lor51** » Mon 21 Jul 2014 7:53 am

Does anyone have the email address or a facebook link for the Mayor or his office. Thanks

Lor51 · Post by **Lor51** » Mon 21 Jul 2014 10:04 am

Lor51 wrote:Does anyone have the email address or a facebook link for the Mayor or his office. Thanks

I found the facebook link and the website, the website main page can be read in English, I tried to download a file with the regulations but its in Turkish, so I just sent a FB message.

sophie · Post by **sophie** » Mon 21 Jul 2014 10:44 am

Please note, there is no cremation facility for street dogs, KAR dogs or family pets who pass on to the great animal heaven. Unless someone knows more than I on the subject.

sophie · Post by **sophie** » Mon 21 Jul 2014 11:50 am

Good news, of a sort. A visit was made this morning to the latest Dikmen dump and NO live animals were found. On being asked, the workmen there confirmed the fact. When asked if any dead animals were taken there in bin liners or similar they said "not as far as they were concerned" and that occasionally a random bag was opened to check on contents. The question now to ascertain is (despite being informed it was Dikmen) where are dead animals taken and what happens to them when respective Belediye have a "round up" or pick up a dog from the side of a road. They must be taken somewhere to be disposed of! It doesn't solve the question as to what and where the dogs in the initial message are. At least the 4 "oldies" were spared i.e 3 fat tan coloured ones that hang around the Tower area and an equally fat, black and lovely tub of lard. They are too lazy to bother anyone! The harbour dogs tend to move around as a group from area to area so it is possible to think they have gone and 3 or 4 days later they turn up again.

Panchocat · Post by **Panchocat** » Mon 21 Jul 2014 12:13 pm

Glad to hear that the Round Tower group including the lovely fat black Lardy one are all there.

iancrumpy · Post by **iancrumpy** » Mon 21 Jul 2014 2:23 pm

Dear Sophie,

Like you, I also don't know what happens to the feral dogs, but it might be best in future, if you didn't start such a thread, with such a dramatic title, without thoroughly checking your sources: In your opening post you relied on hearsay to tell us that the dogs were being "dumped" alive at the Dikmen "Hell" ... only to survive through "cannibalism" ... something you later realised was false.

Furthermore your comments of “dumping by locals” can only further lead to anti-“local” sentiment by some members of this board ... something that upsets me considering I am married to a “local”. I have no doubt that the vast majority of feral dogs are indeed “dumped” by Turks/Turkish Cypriots, but as Lor51 mentioned, some (perhaps proportionally more) are left by expats leaving the island - It should be noted that Lefkoşa, which is almost 100% “local”, does not have a significant feral dog problem.

Nobody on the council wants to kill these poor dogs, but they are aware that most of the residents (including a sizeable, but politely quiet minority of expats) want the problem dealt with. My guess is that the authorities are in the process of humanely killing the animals and then transporting their carcasses to some form of landfill ... however, as I said, like you, I don’t know for certain ... but, in this uncertainty, let’s not demonize our hosts.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Mon 21 Jul 2014 3:13 pm

Thank you Ian, I have spend the last 24 hours worrying about how and whether to respond to this post, and you have done it far better than I could. Whilst I understand and sympathise Sophie's distress at the alleged fate of the dogs, I think it is unwise and unfair to make that kind of allegation unless you are able to quote an unimpeachable source. I would also query why animals "dumped" by municipalities and locals suffer a worse fate than those "dumped" by expatriates.

I have been here far longer (heaven help me!) than most expatriates and have experienced more kindness (including recent help with a seriously ill stray animal when may own health prevented me getting to a Vet) than from newcome fellow Brits and and I also get upset by some of the sentiments expressed here

I do however share Sophie's concern that undue and unfair pressure from the anti-dog sector of the expatriate community may have lead the authorities into precipitate action before they were prepared for it, because I seriously doubt if they have the facilities for painlessly euthanising "9 or 10" dogs in one night, and from my experience of local Vets (unless the dogs were terminally ill with an infectious disease) they would not have been a party to culling.

I also hope that Ian's "guess" about "some kind of landfill" is correct: because otherwise the disposal of numbers of dead animals is going to lead to a public health problem: again those calling for "culling" as a solution to the stray problem are not thinking through the implications of proceeding without adequate planning and facilitities.

Brighton Dot · Post by **Brighton Dot** » Mon 21 Jul 2014 7:12 pm

Iancrumpy, I too am married to a local and have been here for many years....unfortunately I remember just a couple of years ago when girne street dogs were rounded up and killed, and although 'your guess' is far more comforting for most people to believe in, the fact back then was that these dogs were not humanely euthanised. They were given a drug which made them suffer horribly before they died.

I don't think that it was Sophie's intention to slur anyone's character, regardless of their nationality, she was merely repeating what she had heard and what has caused her and many other people cause for grave concern.
Let's face it, the majority of the posts on here originate from hearsay, with members asking for clarification of facts.

We all realise that the street dog issue must be resolved, but to take a guess that it is being done humanely .....it's frankly a tad naive,

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Mon 21 Jul 2014 7:27 pm

A few people know already that a dog that was half taken in by someone in my village was poisoned deliberately by the municipality. N o other dog was poisoned and there were a group of them in the street at that time. This poor thing was targeted. The person who half took it in was feeding it and allowing it to sleep outside (I believe) but it wa sin the street a lot and also spent time in my garage. It die don my doorstep, a horrible death!
I am not 'blaming'[ anyone, even though to me it is a barbaric thing to do. It is what they do because as yet they have not learned anything else. There is no humane putting of dogs to sleep here as in other countrie,s and of course animal rights hav e not progressed to the same level as other countries. Just a fact.

What do they do. I believe more dogs than ever are being dumped on the streets ( I was told it by someone in KAR) because of the new laws on micro chipping and registration. People complain that they don't like the dogs in the street - they are a nuisance. So what it is to be done. It is a case of nimby (not in my back yard) , so whose backyard are these dogs meant to live in.

The authorities do what they think is the right thing to do, even though we are horrified. But what honestly is the answer?

iancrumpy · Post by **iancrumpy** » Mon 21 Jul 2014 8:20 pm

Brighton Dot wrote:It's frankly a tad naive.

That's as maybe, but I still think my "naivety" is preferable to painting, purely on hearsay, the near apocalyptic scene as described in msg 1.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Mon 21 Jul 2014 8:41 pm

Oh dear Marion, now you are doing it, and you a Mod. too! And a journalist! Do you have proof that the Municipality poisoned the dog, and why should they "target" one out of several.

I had the most horrible experience of sitting all night with a dog dying of posion (the Vets then didnt have access to the same antidotes they do now and I had to wait to see if what they had available would work). By the end of the night if I had had the means and could have been sure of not botching it, I would have ended his suffering mself with a gun or a sharp knife. But I didnt witness the poisening so I didnt go around accusing people of doing it I did accept that this particular dog was young, hyper active and greedy: he probably saved the life of his older and staider adopted "sister" by gulping down the substance before she could get to it!

I wonder if it is wise to feed strays in residential areas - it is bound to attract them to the area and lead to ill feeling among people who for some reason or other dont like animals and may take or provoke drastic action. I seem to remember advice from KAR to this effect?

btw there ARE methods of humane "putting to sleep" of dogs. Another of mine developed incapacitating inoperable(for a dog) cancer . The Vet gave her an injection in her (the dogs) own home and it died in my arms. I had been expecting a slow waning of life, but the drug acted so fast I nearly dropped her in surprise. But it cost. I ask again would those who advocate culling as a means of disposing of the street dog problem be prepared to pay for the drugs for painless euthanisia and Vets to administer it.

Marions · Post by **Marions** » Mon 21 Jul 2014 9:08 pm

Not sure wha tyou mean by 'doing it' and not sure what being a moderator and a journalist has to do with it. I am 'me' writing as 'me' and I was told this fact, bya a relative of the person who did it, and I have no reason to dispute it. And why this dog? Because all the others are owned by people in the village and they are not strays. I stated it as a fact, as I was told it was a fact and I believed it.
The municipality has a right to do what it wants and to instruct its workers to carry out what is deemed to be their job.

As I say, this has nothing to do with any of the 'hats' I may wear in my life. This dog die don my doorstep and I was not evne there to comfort it. my husband found it and called a neighbour to come and help. But it was too late.

It is not s many years ago that there was an incidence with stray dogs in the area of what was then Guidos, and the owners of Guidos were very upset when they learned that thepolice had shot a particular dog. Again, all part of their orders. Again, a fact!

But given time things will improve.

As to having dog s put down, yes I know they can do it, but I am given to understand (and here I do NOT know the facts, although I suspect KAR does) that the drugs as used in, say, U.K, are not available here and it is the exception for a dog to be 'put to sleep' rather than the norm.

So why don't you like me Ragged Robin????

PoshinDevon · Post by **PoshinDevon** » Tue 22 Jul 2014 9:35 am

Slightly off topic but I do think people should try to understand that there is a difference when posting as a moderator and posting one's own personal views or thoughts on a particular subject. This applies top not only this thread but all threads.

Normally this is very clear....when moderating the posting, a moderator usually refers to some slight breach of Kibkom forum rules or maybe offering help and advice on how to use the forum or just trying to get the thread back on track.

As moderators we are entitled to our own personal view on different subjects and can make comments accordingly. The title of "moderator" under our username should not even come into it.

This is a very interesting thread and makes somewhat sad reading. We have always had dogs at home and love them but do understand they must be kept under control and packs roaming around can often cause distress to no doggy people. Its a very difficult issue with KAR at the centre trying to do their best and other local authorities trying to best respond to the problem. Its the usual adage....a dog is for life, not christmas - the sooner people try to understand this and think things thro before taking on a dog the better things will become. Unfortunately there is no quick fix.

Just glad that amongst all the sadness that this subject brings there are those out there who do their very best to make these animals lives better.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Tue 22 Jul 2014 10:30 am

Sorry Marion; if that sounded personal is was unintential. What I dont like is "hearsay" evidence being given as fact, as sadly happens on most forums. Lets say I was disappointed in that you slipped from your normal high standards, But as a journalist (and you do keep reminding us you are one!) you must be aware that witnesses may well have other agenda, and can put "spin" on stories deliberately or unintentionally and cause a lot of grief for innocent people. We risk having "trial by forum" without the standads of proof expected in a court. I believe journalists often use the formula "a normally reliable source" to indicate that they cant guarantee actual proof of the incident . Surely is is just a tad arrogant to assume if you believe something you have been told second hand it it must be true rather than give your readers to chance to form their own assessment. And I though it was against Forum rules to make accusations without proof; true no individuals have been name on this thread (except by position) but with such a small community I think there are people who can make guesses .

It is foklore that local Vets wont put down healthy animals - no Vet likes doing that - apart from their religion it goes against their training. Bt they will euthanise an animal that is suffering if it cant be cured. I speak from personal experience - if anything the Vet was critical of me from keeping the dog alive in pain longer than necessary in the stupid hope of a miracle. I dont know what drug she used but I was holding the dog and it was amazingly quick and effective and I am sure the dog felt nothing and the Vet couldnt have been kinder or more professional. When I commented on the speed with which the injection took affect she just said "Strong medicine"! Of course the dog in question was small, old and weak and had a pretty tough and ill nourished start to life before I toook her in. Maybe it would have been harder with a young , large healthy animal.

What is was was expensive. Another example of the sacrifices those who adopt dogs make. As I said before the cost of drugs and Vets services to painlessly "destroy" a large number of animals is a factor that must be taken into account in deciding how to deal with strays.

bigbadbob · Post by **bigbadbob** » Tue 22 Jul 2014 10:57 am

We also have experience unfortunately of seeing a dog having to be put to sleep, by a vet. The dog, a young big pointer type had been goaded into the main road by a worker at a local restaurant, it was then smacked by a large 4 wheel drive vehicle which did not bother to stop, we found it still alive but with horrific injuries at the side of the road.
With help, we lifted the dog into the car and contacted Petcross, the only vet at the time who were still working as it was in the evening.
Firdes was waiting for us, examined the dog and found it had a broken back as well as other injuries and she had no alternative but to put the poor animal to sleep. We soothed and stroked the dog whilst she administered the drug and the whole thing took a matter of seconds to act. She did thank us for being there for the animal, it would have suffered a slow painful death.
The cost: 150TL. - Such an insignificant amount of money, roughly £40.00p to stop the suffering for this dog.
As previously posted we were told by a most reliable person, who has lived here for numerous years and have their own business here that the dogs in town were going to be taken and disposed of. We believe this to be fact!!!

IPMAN · Post by **IPMAN** » Tue 22 Jul 2014 11:36 am

bigbadbob - Please tell me what the restaurant was that employed this "worker" as i would wish to avoid such a place!

owl · Post by **owl** » Tue 22 Jul 2014 12:12 pm

IPMAN

You would find yourself avoiding almost every restaurant in NC and around the world.

Dogs, and cats are often a pest at any eaterie, most diners do not like them around the table, especially as they are usually not innoculated and often flea ridden. They also often defecate on the premises. Most people, especially those with young children are happy to see these feral animals 'shooed' away.

Would you accept feral dogs or cats around the table in a MacD's or KFC anywhere in the world?

IPMAN · Post by **IPMAN** » Tue 22 Jul 2014 12:14 pm

Owl there is "shooed away" and shooed away into the path of a large 4x4 NOT the same!

owl · Post by **owl** » Tue 22 Jul 2014 12:19 pm

IPMAN

The post said it had been goaded into the road, and was then smacked by a 4X4. It didn't say it was 'intentionally' goaded into the path of a 4X4.

Waiters will shoo dogs and cats away from diners, but they are not traffic police. Feral animals will wander wherever they want. I must have to slam on the brakes on a daily basis to avoid feral animals, I'm sure others do.

bigbadbob · Post by **bigbadbob** » Tue 22 Jul 2014 12:29 pm

Ipman- The restaurant has recently been refurbished, gone under another name but still has the same staff.The worker who goaded the dog then went and told the head waiter what he had done and they both stood looking down from the roadside terrace, laughing at us trying to help the poor thing.
It was a fish restaurant, now it is a Kebab place and it is one of the ones on the opposite side of the road to Supreme Supermarket in Catalkoy.
Obviously we have never been in it since but we still see the men in question in the local supermarkets. They know, we know but just Smirk!!!
We have been living out here now for 2 1/2 years and know without doubt within that space of time of at least two occasions when there has been a ''rounding up'' of the town's street dogs and cats. That is apart from them putting the poison down We try and help and wish that things are not the way they are for the animals but if people prefer to have their blinkers on and not see or admit to the cruelty, things are not going to change and get better!!!
Went to post this, now seen Owl's comments!
The dog was walking kerbside on the main road, not anywhere in the restaurants grounds including carpark. The waiter was walking back to the restaurant. He literally kicked out at the dog making it go into the oncoming traffic. This act of Cowardly Cruelty was done on purpose -
I repeat, whilst there are people who choose to wear their blinkers and make lame excuses - Things are not going to get any better!
BBB's Other Half !!!

Lor51 · Post by **Lor51** » Tue 22 Jul 2014 12:31 pm

owl wrote:IPMAN

The post said it had been goaded into the road, and was then smacked by a 4X4. It didn't say it was 'intentionally' goaded into the path of a 4X4.

Waiters will shoo dogs and cats away from diners, but they are not traffic police. Feral animals will wander wherever they want. I must have to slam on the brakes on a daily basis to avoid feral animals, I'm sure others do.

Then you must be driving too fast. I have been driving here for almost 3 years and not once had to slam my brakes on for an animal or a human crossing the road. and its now

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Tue 22 Jul 2014 3:26 pm

Its not the restaurant I want to avoid ( with three dogs to care for cant afford to eat out much anyway) its irrespondible 4 x 4 drivers. As peole often say it could have been a child ran onto the road, or an inform elderly person trying to cross. Sorry OT but that road is a death trap anyway if you are trying to got onto if from a side road and have only a small car the traffic just rushes by with attention only for their ultimate destination (or their mobiles)

BBB £40 may not be much to you, you lucky man. For some people it is a drain on savings for thier own health care. Of course I had to do it, I had taken responsibiity for the dog (albeit when dog ownership was so much easier and cheaper) and anyway loved her too much to watch her suffer, but people need to be aware of the cost of caring for dogs, and of the cost of merciful culling when they call for stray dogs to be removed then criticise the methos of the authorities.

bigbadbob · Post by **bigbadbob** » Tue 22 Jul 2014 6:07 pm

Sorry Ragged Robin, both of us strongly disagree with your comment reference restaurant/ 4x4 drivers. It was not the 4x4 drivers fault that the uncaring, mindless, cruel employee's of said restaurant did what they did, causing the injuries and then the death of a beautiful living animal. Yes! the driver should have stopped but maybe he or she was of the same ilk!.
We would have somehow found the money to help this poor animal, not our own but we are sure that there are others out here that would have acted and given as we did. Luckily we know we are not on our own in wanting to help these defenceless, trusting, out on the streets through no fault of their own dogs and cats.
The topic is what has happened and will continue to happen to the poor dog's having to exist and survive on the streets of Northern Cyprus.
Together and without useless bickering and snide comments, we may be able to help them!
BBB and BBB's other half.

Post by **Soner** » Tue 22 Jul 2014 7:39 pm

Can see this topic going in the wrong direction. Can I please ask members to read the forum rules, several members have already been banned this week for personal attacks without warning and reason. Please tread carefully as I will not tolerate it on this forum. Please think carefully before you post, if upset or angry over a post then go out for a brisk walk and fresh air before responding.

Thank you.

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Tue 22 Jul 2014 7:41 pm

Can we banned for sending PM?

Post by **Soner** » Tue 22 Jul 2014 7:45 pm

If PM is an insult and person receiving it complains. What can I say????

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Tue 22 Jul 2014 8:13 pm

It was hypothetical question, don't worry I'm not planning on sending any.

Ragged Robin · Post by **Ragged Robin** » Tue 22 Jul 2014 8:23 pm

BBB OK I wont expand on the crueltyof 4 x 4 drivers, because its off topic, though you actually contradict yourself!

I think mostof the people on this thread are concerned about the plight of street dogs and want to help. Because I dont believe that life on the street, far less in kennels, is good or natural for a dog, I decided (albeit a long time ago when life here was very very different) that my contribution was to care for as many street animalsas I could cope with, which included neutering them and preventig numerous puppies adding to the problem - unfortunately for me with the changing population and environment of th TRNC that task has become far more difficult and expensive and my main concern with my own health d eteriorating is what will happen to the current ones when I am unable to cope any more. You apparently chose to spend time and money helping an individual animal in particular bad circumstances. Both are just drops in the ocean of the problem!

The problems of strays, and cruelty to animals, are far from unique to Northern Cyprus,and as far as I know (though I would love to be corrected) no counry has yet come up with a solution.

Unless we accept realistically (a) that any humane solution is going to be expensive and take a long time and (b) that we have chosen to live in a country that has its own individual problems and we can only work within the framework of a its culture and without venting our spleen (as you put it) or airing our racial prejudices , or becoming over emotional about animals we are just banging our heads against brick walls and this thread will just contine to go round in circles. Do try to bear in mind that a lot of people (including some expats and tourists ) are are scared of dogs and the strays may well frighten them and frightened people often react badly. I dont entirely understand it, but as like most people I have my own other phobias whichare probably equally illlogial to others so I try not to be too critical.

What are your suggestions for solving the problem of strays and how do you propose it be funded?

To me it is so obvious - stop the source of the problem by preventing people importing , breeding and selling dogs, combined with a continued programme of neutering and encouraging educating and helping people to adopt rather than discouraging them by increased expenses and aggression towards dogs and their owners.

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