Confusion over wills

the butlers wife · Post by **the butlers wife** » Fri 01 Aug 2014 10:15 am

Hi everyone,

When my husband and myself made our wills here in TRNC, we thought that when either of us or both of us passed on
our nominated benefactors would automatically inherit our property and any money we might have in the bank here, like in the UK.
In the last week, I have heard of two cases where a will had been made and in each case it had to go to probate when the person died, which has taken in one case over 3 years to sort out and the other is still going on after eighteen months. Does every will have to go to probate here in the TRNC? If the answer is yes, what is the point in making a will in the first place? Any answers and advice would be appreciated.

The butlers wife

come_on_aylin · Post by **come_on_aylin** » Fri 01 Aug 2014 10:34 am

I'd be interested to hear the answer to this too.

We made wills via a Lawyer and as far as I know the originals are in her safe - I don't believe they were registered with the court at that time. However, I have heard that the latest advice is to create your own wills (forms available on line) nominating your own executor and (get them notarised?) register them with the court. Apparently, the Lawyers charge a large fee for being your executor.

I wonder, in the above cases, whether they used a lawyer or did it themselves - does it make a difference to probate?

Also if we create new wills and register them with the court, assuming we find that the previous ones were not, do they take precedence or do we still have to get the old ones in the safe of the lawyer destroyed?

the butlers wife · Post by **the butlers wife** » Fri 01 Aug 2014 12:43 pm

I know that the will that has been ongoing for over 3 years, was done by a lawyer and was definitely registered
with the court but I don't know about the other one. We are wondering if it would be better to have our sons added
to our deeds if we ever get them and then there shouldn't be a problem. Does anyone know if this can be done?

The butlers wife

ozankoys · Post by **ozankoys** » Fri 01 Aug 2014 1:48 pm

All estates have to go to probate here, if you have named a laywer as executor they can charge what they like - some charge a % of the estate.
Butlers wife you cannot add your sons to your deeds they will have to obtain PTP & then you will have to sell them a portion accordingly would be best to transfer the whole deed to them if you are comfortable with doing that.
When making a new will it is common to write 'I revoke all previous wills' which takes care of that situation.
If you do not make a will at all I am assuming (& I stand to be corrected please) that local rules will apply i.e. 50% to surviving spouse then remainder to children if no children then to deceased's brothers & sisters.

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Fri 01 Aug 2014 3:14 pm

When my husband died over two years ago,we had both made a will here.Mirror copies of each others,apart from a few personal request of jewellery. Everything apart from the car was in joint names, as I didn't drive (get log book put in both names regardless) It was done through a solicitor and it is NOT necessary to get it registered in the court. I also had a letter to that affect. It was fairly straight forward ,but had to go through probate, took 8 month, think that was a record! Cost £3500

wanderer · Post by **wanderer** » Fri 01 Aug 2014 4:50 pm

£3500 FOR WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DID THEY WEAR MASKS

journey1 · Post by **journey1** » Fri 01 Aug 2014 5:00 pm

I know of a British couple who had made their will and registered it at the court. Sadly the husband died and when it came to settling everything it still went to probate. There was a long debate from the TRNC side asking if the widow could prove that only the children named in the will were the only children by the husband!! Honestly , the widow had to have a British solicitor write to that effect! Can you believe it - how would anyone manage to prove that??? It beggars belief.
Eventually it was settled - no idea of costs involved, but, I do know it caused a lot of anguish and I wonder what is the point of it all? Although I do believe it is better to make one and register it than do nothing.

come_on_aylin · Post by **come_on_aylin** » Fri 01 Aug 2014 5:15 pm

I thought if you died intestate then some of the estate goes to the state here, perhaps someone could confirm or refute this.

Perhaps the wills could specifically name children rather than say issue and a husband declare that those named are his only children.

Dalartokat · Post by **Dalartokat** » Fri 01 Aug 2014 5:27 pm

There is a Wills and Succession Law in TRNC. If you Google(I always use Yahoo) exactly this you will find at least 2 links that explain what it is.

Do not want to put the links on as I know this Forum does not like other forums links mentioned.

Also, one of the links mentions a payment which is nothing like what Owl Lady was charged, but not sure how old that particular information is.

Philoz · Post by **Philoz** » Fri 01 Aug 2014 5:50 pm

I used to set up 'probate trusts' for clients with investments offshore.
Basically , it meant that if someone died, their money would not be subject to probate in the country of death.
However,as TRNC is not internationally recognised,I don't know whether such a Trust would be recognised here.
I did mention to my lawyer here about setting up such a trust but got a blank look.
When I say Lawyer,I mean TRNC Lawyer-Advocate,not a proper lawyer but that's what you tend to get here.
You would need to throw some money at a UK based lawyer you can trust to get a definitive answer in my opinion.

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Fri 01 Aug 2014 7:49 pm

Wanderer, no masks. that did include re writing my will. At the time, a couple of friends who had been in a similar situation, both paid in the region of £3000 One changed solicitors and was charged, for him to pass all his papers to the new solicitor £1000!!!

mrsgee · Post by **mrsgee** » Fri 01 Aug 2014 8:09 pm

The subject of wills has come up a number of times recently. From my own experience what I would say is go to the Citizens Advice Service in Karakum and talk to Pembe. Sounds to me like a lot of people are paying a lot of money maybe unnecessarily. At the end of the day, a will is simply a document that states what a person wants to happen with their estate/possessions when they die......it should not be that difficult or expensive, but my understanding is if you use a solicitor it will cost.

Agobard · Post by **Agobard** » Sat 02 Aug 2014 7:39 am

My late husband's will was dealt with by a local parasite - sorry, lawyer - and it took about 4 years for them to sort this out. Was it complicated - no! His estate here in Cyprus consisted of half a house and a car. I would never use a lawyer again for this purpose. Unfortunately all this happened some years ago and, at the time, we knew no better. I know now that the procedure is not complicated and I would have done it myself had I known.

stellasstar1 · Post by **stellasstar1** » Sat 02 Aug 2014 9:06 am

I recently made out a will and it cost me 30 lira. I typed it out myself, took it to a notary and had two witnesses sign it, the notary notarized it, and that was it. She said it was up to me if I registered it with a court, but if I didn't, just make sure it was kept in a safe place.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sat 02 Aug 2014 9:51 am

Ref msg 14 above, could you quote the notary's charge please, or was that the 30 TL?

soyelcin · Post by **soyelcin** » Sat 02 Aug 2014 1:57 pm

Agobard, are you saying you could have handled the probate yourself?

Agobard · Post by **Agobard** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 6:49 am

Soyelcin: yes, I'd certainly give it a go. Have discussed this in depth with a TC friend who has dealt with probate and the distribution of an estate for several members of his family. Doesn't sound like rocket science.

frontalman · Post by **frontalman** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 8:59 am

I don't think a will is legal unless it's registered with the court, and you can't do that after death (but I may be wrong!).

ozankoys · Post by **ozankoys** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 9:07 am

The will does not have to be registered at court to be legal it just needs to be signed & witnessed properly.

stellasstar1 · Post by **stellasstar1** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 9:22 am

tomsteel, yes, 30 lira was the total charge, but remember, I did type it out myself !! Also, I didn't have it done in Turkish, only English, but she said it wasn't essential to have it in Turkish. I probably should have it done in Turkish as well, but maybe will get around to doing that one day. Also, as I said earlier, she did say it was not necessary to lodge it with the courts, as quite often the solicitors don't even bother.

For anyone interested, it is the Notory by Green Garage in Alsancak. She speaks perfect English as well.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sun 03 Aug 2014 10:36 am

Thanks stellastar1.

come_on_aylin · Post by **come_on_aylin** » Mon 04 Aug 2014 4:09 pm

Agobard,

I'm just wondering how easy dealing with probate would be for an ex-pat with little Turkish and perhaps no access to a TC friend? Would citizen's advice be able to help? or would you be forced down the lawyer route because of the language difficulty and bureaucracy. It has already been mentioned elsewhere that joint bank accounts are closed on notification of death - advising the surviving partner to withdraw money before the bank is notified. It may be prudent for couples to halve their money and open individual accounts but that may cause other problems.

KWAKERT4 · Post by **KWAKERT4** » Mon 04 Aug 2014 5:51 pm

Unread post Re: Confusion over wills

£3500 FOR WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DID THEY WEAR MASKS

if a property is in joint ownership and one partner dies, the surviving partner has to pay 10% of the value of the deceased half to inherit, ie, 5% of the property value. In this case it was presumably worth £70,000.

Tony

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Mon 04 Aug 2014 8:18 pm

Presumably, as the house alone is worth more than that! I did get an itemised invoice at the time. Even down to letters, trips to Lefkosa, to land registry," out of pocket expenses" etc,etc.

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